Is Sega the stupidest gaming company ever?

[Smooth Groove]

How many 360 gamers will give a crap about Virtua Fighter 5 when it's released on October 30?  Granted it is the superior version so some Xbots will get it to use as ammo in their console wars.  But who else will care when so many other great 360 games from far more popular genres are released in Fall? 

This is not Sega's fault.  But what's up with this POS joystick that costs as much as a Virtua Stick:High Grade?  Jap companies must think that US gamers are really dumb. 

[demi]

u r the stupidest

[Van Cruncheon]

honestly, this question is rhetorical

[Smooth Groove]

u r the stupidest

What's scary is that I'm going to be treating patients.     Would you let me treat you if I give you a 50% discount? 

[demi]

Yes

[Smooth Groove]

Yes

 A discount is more important to you than your health?  Demi, you're such a cheap bastard.     No wonder you pirate games so much.

[demi]

I only download PSP games now, soon to be DS. PC gaming is on my 360, no need to download that.

[hyp]

that stick looks terrible!

fuck it, i need one badly.  i can't even find the old DOA4 one for less than $100 bucks

[Smooth Groove]

that stick looks terrible!

fuck it, i need one badly.  i can't even find the old DOA4 one for less than $100 bucks

yeah, US fighter fans are screwed big time.  PS3 gamers are screwed too because Hori keep giving them the same crap as the 360 stuff.  The biggest insult is that Hori's 2nd grade joysticks in the US are just as expensive as Real Arcade Pros or Virtua Sticks in Japan.  Which is why I'm still pissed that I got screwed over when I tried to get a Virtua Stick:High Grade in Asia. 

I only download PSP games now, soon to be DS. PC gaming is on my 360, no need to download that.

Why haven't you downloaded DS games so far?  I heard it's far easier to pirate DS games than PSP games.  Not only are the DS hacks easier, DS games are also exponentially faster to download.  Mondain also said that it's easy as hell to pirate on the 360 although I don't know why anyone would want to mess around with the 360's warranty, considerring how fragile it is. 

[MrAngryFace]

Whats with the VF5 360 hate? I own the ps3 version and will also get the 360 version. The game is great.

[Smooth Groove]

Whats with the VF5 360 hate? I own the ps3 version and will also get the 360 version. The game is great.

No hate.  It'll have better graphics, features than the PS3 version plus it's online ready.  But all that effort will be wasted since Sega is stupidly releasing it in the hottest season for games.  It's not like fighters sell that well even when there's not much else to get. 

[MrAngryFace]

VF5 didnt do that great on PS3 when there's like NO OTHER GAMES to compete with lol. Most scrubs dont like VF5, their loss.

[Smooth Groove]

VF5 didnt do that great on PS3 when there's like NO OTHER GAMES to compete with lol. Most scrubs dont like VF5, their loss.

Yeah, and it'll sell like 30,000 copies on the 360 in October as opposed to 100,000 copies in the summer.  50,000 copies or so don't mean that much when you're talking about million sellers but it's a huge difference for niche games like VF5.  At this point, I'm starting to doubt if there'll ever be a VF6.  Actually, they might be better off making VF6 for the Neo-Geo.  lol

[ferricide]

At this point, I'm starting to doubt if there'll ever be a VF6.  Actually, they might be better off making VF6 for the Neo-Geo.  lol

um. wow. that is the stupidest thing in this thread (including sega's actions!)

the game is doing fantastically well in arcades in japan. that's where the money is. sega (for better or worse) thinks of the home versions as gravy. i don't think a lot of planning went into this game.

i have a feeling there's a lot more to this coming to the 360, and when it came to the 360, and with what features than simple bad planning on sega's part.

as for the hori stick being a ripoff in the US, that's quite true. oh well!

[Smooth Groove]

At this point, I'm starting to doubt if there'll ever be a VF6.  Actually, they might be better off making VF6 for the Neo-Geo.  lol

um. wow. that is the stupidest thing in this thread (including sega's actions!)

the game is doing fantastically well in arcades in japan. that's where the money is. sega (for better or worse) thinks of the home versions as gravy. i don't think a lot of planning went into this game.

i have a feeling there's a lot more to this coming to the 360, and when it came to the 360, and with what features than simple bad planning on sega's part.

as for the hori stick being a ripoff in the US, that's quite true. oh well!

But if it's doing so well in arcades, why did the home version bomb in Japan?  Don't ports of popular arcade games usually do awesome in Japan?  Also, arcades are practically dead in the US so there's no money there.  I've yet to see a VF4 machine much less a VF5 machine in America.  Not even in Vegas, which has a ton of arcades.  VF has been an elite series because Sega has pumped a lot of their resources into it.  If VF5's not selling enough copies, the money just won't be there to further drive the series. 

[MrAngryFace]

I think youre assuming that exposure is the reason VF5 isnt selling well and thats not the case. VF has never been that huge, in fact id go so far as to say the fighter genre has been far less important lately especially with the absence of anything really new from capcom, and Namco pumping out by-the-numbers tekken releases like a cheap whore.

[Van Cruncheon]

it bombed in japan becauses the vf fans didn't want to shell out for a ps3, whose unpopularity is only thrown into perspective by the even more unpopular 360.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

1. But if it's doing so well in arcades, why did the home version bomb in Japan?
2. Don't ports of popular arcade games usually do awesome in Japan?
3. Also, arcades are practically dead in the US so there's no money there.  I've yet to see a VF4 machine much less a VF5 machine in America.  Not even in Vegas, which has a ton of arcades.
4. VF has been an elite series because Sega has pumped a lot of their resources into it.
5. If VF5's not selling enough copies, the money just won't be there to further drive the series. 

1. Because VF is a highly competitive fighter based around 1-vs-1, 0-latency tournament-style play. VF outside of the arcade doesn't make much sense, frankly.
2. No.
3. So?
4. True.
5. You have to pay to play in the arcades, you know.

[MrAngryFace]

I still dont think VF5 online will be that great an experience if DoA4 on live is any indication.

[TVC15]

Answer to question posed in topic title:

[MrAngryFace]

Hardcore arcade players are a dying breed anyway. I think the bigger question is why a quality game like vf5 cant sell well to a user base with so little of a selection.

[TVC15]

[MrAngryFace]

The evades the real point. People DO buy games for PS3, why NOT vf5, it IS one of the best games available right now.

[MrAngryFace]

I have 3!

[MrAngryFace]

What about.......umm.....MOTORSTORM!

[Smooth Groove]

TVC, that was awesome.  Where do you find those things?  You're truly the master of the unexpected. 

I have 3!

Which 3?  I had around 10 but I'm down to like 5 or so since the other games were significantly inferior to the 360 versions.  I have more Blu-rays than Hd-Dvds though if that's any consolation to Sony.  lol

1. But if it's doing so well in arcades, why did the home version bomb in Japan?
2. Don't ports of popular arcade games usually do awesome in Japan?
3. Also, arcades are practically dead in the US so there's no money there.  I've yet to see a VF4 machine much less a VF5 machine in America.  Not even in Vegas, which has a ton of arcades.
4. VF has been an elite series because Sega has pumped a lot of their resources into it.
5. If VF5's not selling enough copies, the money just won't be there to further drive the series. 

1. Because VF is a highly competitive fighter based around 1-vs-1, 0-latency tournament-style play. VF outside of the arcade doesn't make much sense, frankly.
2. No.
3. So?
4. True.
5. You have to pay to play in the arcades, you know.

I get what you and MAF are saying but doesn't it make sense for Sega to optimize the timing for a game that is pretty hard to sell even with no competition?   For example, as pretty as Lost Planet was, it probably wouldn't have sold half as much if it were released at the same time as Gears of War. 

[Van Cruncheon]

they are all waiting for LAIR, sure to be the defining dragon experience of this gaming generation

[y2kev]

Answer to question posed in topic title:

(Image removed from quote.)

WOWOWOWOW 

[demi]

The Darkness>Lair

FALSE

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Okay let me try to explain this in terms Smooth Groove can understand

MS: Please make Virtua Fighter 5 for 360.
Sega:
MS: Here is a big bag of money.
Sega:
MS: Here is a bigger bag of money?
Sega: ...
MS: Look, we don't care when it comes out, we just want if for our system. Here's some more money.
Sega: Fine!
MS: And can we have online play, too?
Sega: That's impossible!!
MS: *drops bag of money on table*
Sega: RIGHT AWAY MISTER GATES-SAMA, SIR!
MS:

[MrAngryFace]

Smooth: VF5, MLB07, Ninja Gaiden. lol

[Smooth Groove]

Patel, that has to be the most ludicrous money bag conspiracy yet.  MS might have plenty of money to spend but I doubt that they'll throw it away to get 10,000 more 360 owners.   

Smooth: VF5, MLB07, Ninja Gaiden. lol

So basically one game will soon be better on the 360.  Another game looks slightly better but plays the same as the PS2 version.  And the last game is a 1.5 Xbox game.  Ouch!  No wonder you're always talking about the PS3's BC abilities.  I would tell myself PS2 games look better on a PS3 too if that's all the PS3 games I have.    Get some Blu-Rays, MAF.  It's what I do to justify the PS3 purchase. 

[MrAngryFace]

I dont like bluray. I view both bluray and hd-dvd as the laser discs of this generation. Ill sit on my huge DVD collection and wait for something a bit more obvious. I bought a ps3 for games...which at this point makes me look fucking stupid.

[Smooth Groove]

That's kinda weird, MAF.  Seems like you just hate HD movies out of principle.  I'm not keen on having 2 competing HD formats either but HD movies are better than DVDs in every way, except for the ludicrous price premiums.  As much as I like HD movies, I wish that Sony had spent the money on making the PS3 actually more powerful than the 360 instead of on a Blu-Ray drive though.  I could have just bought a Blu-ray player seperately.  Any knowledgeble gamer knows that a more powerful GPU is far more important for HD gaming than storage space. 

[MrAngryFace]

Why should I trust bluray? Cause of Sony's bang up job with UMD? The poor sales for bluray AND HDDVD? There's no real reason to switch right now as most the movies that need crisp visuals get a good transfer that looks fine on an upscaling player, and most affordable HDTVs aren't 1080p anyway so whats the goddamned point. I mean even if bluray "wins", its the title of king of poop sales mountain.


Its not principle, its common sense.

[The Sceneman]

Answer to question posed in topic title:

(Image removed from quote.)

Sega's money gobbling early 90's follies

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Patel, that has to be the most ludicrous money bag conspiracy yet.  MS might have plenty of money to spend but I doubt that they'll throw it away to get 10,000 more 360 owners.   

Fine, believe what you want, what could I possibly know about the back-room machinations of the Japanese game industry!

[Oblivion]

I dunno, Patel. Sega may be dumb as doorknobs, but I don't think MS is the one that had to twist their arm about porting VF5.

[Smooth Groove]

I dunno, Patel. Sega may be dumb as doorknobs, but I don't think MS is the one that had to twist their arm about porting VF5.

If anything, Sega was most likely trying to recoup its losses for releasing VF5 as a PS3 exclusive.  Jap companies are so dumb sometimes.  They shouldn't let patriotism get in the way of making money.  Look at Rockstar and how much they give a shit about helping a fellow American company succeed. 

Why should I trust bluray? Cause of Sony's bang up job with UMD? The poor sales for bluray AND HDDVD? There's no real reason to switch right now as most the movies that need crisp visuals get a good transfer that looks fine on an upscaling player, and most affordable HDTVs aren't 1080p anyway so whats the goddamned point. I mean even if bluray "wins", its the title of king of poop sales mountain.


Its not principle, its common sense.

I could understand not jumping into either HD format if you only have a DVD player.  However, you already have a Blu-Ray player in the PS3.  You've basically made the HD investment already so why not enjoy some movies in HD?  Even if Blu-ray bombs in the future, you would still have some movies that are in HD.  You're not thinking of getting rid of the PS3, are you? 

[MrAngryFace]

No, I bought a PS3 for games, not movies. I have never bought a game system for dvds, GAMES should be the primary reason I buy a GAME console.

Im at least keeping my PS3 for the hardware BC and hopefully the handful of good games available 2 years from now.

[Smooth Groove]

No, I bought a PS3 for games, not movies. I have never bought a game system for dvds, GAMES should be the primary reason I buy a GAME console.

Im at least keeping my PS3 for the hardware BC and hopefully the handful of good games available 2 years from now.

That's PRINCIPLE. lol

[MrAngryFace]

No, its common sense lol. I tried using my 360 for dvds and the drive crapped out, why would I do that with a 600 dollar machine. I learned my lesson!

[The Sceneman]

  Look at Rockstar and how much they give a shit about helping a fellow American company succeed. 

huh?

I could understand not jumping into either HD format if you only have a DVD player.  However, you already have a Blu-Ray player in the PS3.  You've basically made the HD investment already so why not enjoy some movies in HD?  Even if Blu-ray bombs in the future, you would still have some movies that are in HD.  You're not thinking of getting rid of the PS3, are you? 

the future? I thought blu-ray and the ps3 were already total flops. Correct me If Im wrong

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Look at Rockstar and how much they give a shit about helping a fellow American company succeed. 

This is an awesome joke.

[Smooth Groove]

No, its common sense lol. I tried using my 360 for dvds and the drive crapped out, why would I do that with a 600 dollar machine. I learned my lesson!

Ok, you win.     Can't argue with that common sense.  I had to buy a 2nd ps2 and xbox because the lasers crapped out on the originals.  And I didn't even use them for watching movies!  Now you got me scared about watching Blu-rays on my PS3.  It sure costs a lot more to replace a PS3 than a PS2. 

If anything, Sega was most likely trying to recoup its losses for releasing VF5 as a PS3 exclusive.  Jap companies are so dumb sometimes.  They shouldn't let patriotism get in the way of making money.  Look at Rockstar and how much they give a shit about helping a fellow American company succeed. 

Patriotism?

Why else would Sega make VF5 exclusive for a platform with such a tiny userbase?  But then again, it's Sega we're talking about.  Nothing they do really makes much sense. 

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I think we were talking about the part where you called Rockstar an American company.

And, again, because MS gave them large sacksof casg money. But don't believe me! It's cool!

[Smooth Groove]

I think we were talking about the part where you called Rockstar an American company.

And, again, because MS gave them large sacksof casg money. But don't believe me! It's cool!

Ok, it's Take Two that's American, not Rockstar. Same difference since Take Two's the boss. 

[ferricide]

yeah, this has been covered.

remember, VF5 was coming out in the summer BEFORE the online play was added. suddenly it was october.

i played it in japan in april. it was already locked at 60 FPS on the 360. it would not have taken much work to get it shippable as-is.

suddenly for some MAGICAL REASON sega decided to add online play, something AM2 told me TO MY FACE that they were not going to be doing because it would ruin the gameplay experience. which is widely and well documented as the position of the developers of the series until extremely recently.

i think the poor sales of PS3 VF5 are not 100% attributable to the expense of the PS3 (though that's clearly a major factor.) i think it also relates to how fucking AWESOME the arcade experience of VF5 is. from the IC cards containing your character (with intro/outro/stats) and the VF.net stuff, why would you want to play a home version?

whether or not it makes sense to you that AM2 would be spending their effort and innovation on the arcade version of a game (since it can't be marketed in the US) the pure fact of the matter is that this is true, and they have been doing so. the VF5 arcade experience is hot.

and with that said, online play is clearly for the US/euro audience.

looks like GR's video embeds don't work here, so i'll just link it:

VF5 arcade tour (club sega akihabara)
http://www.gamesradar.com/us/xbox360/game/movies/index.jsp?releaseId=2006122111543685040

[Oblivion]

I would be able to believe that Sega might have gotten moneyhatted to have it online. But not for just porting it.

[ferricide]

That doesn't explain why it has tanked in America though.

nor did it endeavor to. it's still a post with information in it.

forums are great!

I would be able to believe that Sega might have gotten moneyhatted to have it online. But not for just porting it.

that's my going theory.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I think it tanked in America because Americans don't want to play fighters anymore!

[Smooth Groove]

Thanks for the info, ferricide.  Are you still in Japan?  I like hearing stories about awesome arcade experiences.  I love arcades but it's too bad that they're basically dead in the US.    My jaw literally dropped when I saw VF3 for the first time in an arcade.  However, as great as VF arcade games are, I don't think they can replace home versions because you need a home version to hone your skills without waiting for a turn and it's also much cheaper in the long run (if you already own the system).   I hope Sega really received mega bucks for putting online into VF5 because the delay is going to decrease sales significantly.  

[ferricide]

I think it tanked in America because Americans don't want to play fighters anymore!

i'm not honestly sure why it tanked here. i don't necessarily think that's true, although fighters are nowhere near as popular as they once were.

part of it has to be so little advertising. and i think that a lot of the fighter audience, as high-minded as we think of the genre (particularly VF) is the wal-mart crowd, who don't have PS3s yet and won't for quite awhile.

but really, i dunno.

Thanks for the info, ferricide.  Are you still in Japan?

no, i'm in san francisco (and have been. i just went to japan to do that VF story a few months back, among other trips.)

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I think that the 1-vs-1 gameplay experience is dying, as a genre. Gamers looking for multiplayer nowadays want 1-vs-many or many-vs-many.

[Smooth Groove]

I think that the 1-vs-1 gameplay experience is dying, as a genre. Gamers looking for multiplayer nowadays want 1-vs-many or many-vs-many.

Yeah, 1 vs 1 gaming is almost as boring as 1 vs 1 sex.  The more the merrier.   

[BlueTsunami]

VF5 for the 360 should come with both IPTV and Googles DARK MATTER FIBER OPTIC LINE

[MrAngryFace]

I dunno I always loved the rivalry I had with friends in 1 on 1 competitions in Garou or Soul Calibur or Virtua Fighter 5. I mean if two people face each other enough on a regular basis the fights they can have are pretty impressive even at the amature level they obviously take place in.

[Beezy]

Answer to question posed in topic title:

(Image removed from quote.)

[ferricide]

I think that the 1-vs-1 gameplay experience is dying, as a genre. Gamers looking for multiplayer nowadays want 1-vs-many or many-vs-many.

god, i hope not, because i hate that shit.