Author Topic: Bearded PC Defense Force: Teach me to play Starcraft! to LOVE Starcraft! (Read 5222 times)

Howard Alan Treesong · « **on:** August 06, 2007, 05:27:52 PM »

how do I mine gas
I do not understand your "RTS" genre.

In all seriousness, I don't really "get" RTSes. Never have. Is there some sort of a learning curve I need to suffer through before it all makes sense? Do I need to play a bunch of multiplayer games (or even God-mode sandbox games) against the computer to get a picture of the overall tech tree before I try the campaign mode?

What am I trying to do? Am I trying to climb the tech tree as fast as possible? Spit out low-level units? Both?

A lot of these maps it seems like I need to spend 10-15 minutes just guardin mah base, churnin out doodz before I go on the Zerg offensive. Is that normal?

What's the correct balance between farming, building, and tech-tree climbing? Or is that like, the whole actual game?

Is there some modern RTS that might serve as a better "gateway" into the genre, at which point I can return to Starcraft and be more comfortable with the genre trappings?

I have a grave psychological NEED to play Starcraft successfully. My future and the future of all mankind depends upon it. Kinda.

Himu · « **Reply #1 on:** August 06, 2007, 05:30:09 PM »

I am pretty much in the same situation. I tried to like Starcraft but I couldn't "get" it. I tried the Civ IV demo, and couldn't really get into it, but I plan on picking up the full game.

I'm more of a Sim City, rpg, and adventure game guy.

Quote from: Billy Rygar on August 06, 2007, 05:29:45 PM

Warcraft II is a good starting point for RTSes. If you can't "get" that one you should go back to FFXII.

What about III?

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #2 on:** August 06, 2007, 05:31:52 PM »

should I do the campaign first? or play some 1-on-1 field maps?

I'm more looking for a psychological explanation of what I'm trying to do in an RTS. I mean...kill all the other guy's guys. I think.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #3 on:** August 06, 2007, 05:39:45 PM »

do the campaign. it introduces you to the units and their powers gradually. after each mission, consider what hotkeys mighta helped, and always be acutely aware of what units are effective against which.

later, make some easy skirmishes, and try some of the stuff you've learned against the ai.

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #4 on:** August 06, 2007, 05:41:16 PM »

what does it mean to "micro"

micromanage, I presume. does that mean just "stay on top of all your buildings' shit"?

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #5 on:** August 06, 2007, 05:45:33 PM »

it also means "don't mass and click" units; set up logical groups with ctrl+# and manage them individually -- i.e. flank ranged units with melee groups et al.

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #6 on:** August 06, 2007, 05:46:11 PM »

Quote from: Professor Prole on August 06, 2007, 05:45:33 PM

it also means "don't mass and click" units; set up logical groups with ctrl+# and manage them individually -- i.e. flank ranged units with melee groups et al.

wait what

everyone told me I'd have to learn hotkeys one day $:-\$

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #7 on:** August 06, 2007, 05:49:23 PM »

bandbox or shift-select a grouping of units, then hit ctrl+1 to make it group 1. you can toggle to that group at any time by pressing 1. do this for other groups. this is probably the most fundamental part of unit mcro in an rts. you will die until you get used to it!

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #8 on:** August 06, 2007, 05:50:40 PM »

how do I make my dudes attack the other dudes
like Utada Hikaru is it auto-matic

also how do I know what's strong against what. like you say use melee against ranged which makes sense but nobody ever mentions in game that you should give that strat a whirl

do I need to just read unit FAQs

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #9 on:** August 06, 2007, 05:52:36 PM »

it is automatic.

the rock paper scissors is typically melee dies to ranged dies to skirmishers dies to melee. starcraft replaces skirmishers with FAST MELEE.

oh, forgot about fliers, which come in fast and weak or slow and strong forms. there are anti-air units to deal with them.

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #10 on:** August 06, 2007, 05:54:31 PM »

what's the diff between skirmisher and melee

I am so distinguished mentally-challenged sorry

and it's like complely 100% automatic? like if my marines are near the zerg they will just THROW DOWN

also what's the innate air/ground dichotomy

I feel like the guy who doesn't know earth is weak against wind just because they needed to pair something after fire and ice went off together.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #11 on:** August 06, 2007, 05:56:36 PM »

yes, on an algorithmic level. in starcraft, ranged lose their powerful ranged attacks and switch to weak melee attacks in a certain range. bikes, for example, will seriously fuck up hydralisks unless the other guy can micro like a beast at the unit level.

Shuri · « **Reply #12 on:** August 06, 2007, 06:05:14 PM »

uninstall the game and buy Dawn Of War: Dark Crusades.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #13 on:** August 06, 2007, 07:08:48 PM »

I think the Age of Empires games are easier for RTS novices than something like Starcraft. The pace is a bit slower in AOE. Also, there are newer sci-fi RTS games that might have surpassed Starcraft such as C&C 3, Warhammer, Supreme Commander, Homeworld. They sure as hell will make much better use of your 8800 GTS than Starcraft.

I'm not a big RTS fan myself since for the time that it takes to learn a PC RTS, you can already beat something like a Final Fatansy game. However, even I think that Company of Heroes is super awesome. It's amazing how COH, even with so much going on, can look better than most WW2 shooters. You probably don't like the setting but I think the demo's worth a try.

AdmiralViscen · « **Reply #14 on:** August 06, 2007, 07:19:38 PM »

A + left-click

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #15 on:** August 06, 2007, 07:20:57 PM »

I have to play Starcraft. I can't play any newer RTS. My life for Aiur.

TVC15 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 06, 2007, 09:00:44 PM »

I didn't know your situation was this dire, Patel. You need a quickie lesson from Master Gamer Warcock. He trained me in W3 and CS and made me like, pretty damned good really quickly. Warcock <3

bluemax · « **Reply #17 on:** August 06, 2007, 09:04:34 PM »

I hate Starcraft. I did not learn to love the RTS genre until I discovered RTS not made by Blizzard.

Blizzard am overrated total.

Quote from: Shuri on August 06, 2007, 06:05:14 PM

uninstall the game and buy Dawn Of War: Dark Crusades.

I wouldn't normally say this but, listen to Shuri.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #18 on:** August 06, 2007, 09:15:15 PM »

Company of Heroes, Age of Empires III, and Rise of Legends all rock. Get them.

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #19 on:** August 06, 2007, 09:23:37 PM »

I HAVE TO PLAY STARCRAFT, GUYS. STARRRRRR CRAAAAAFT.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #20 on:** August 06, 2007, 09:26:40 PM »

no you dont. youll never compete with korea

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #21 on:** August 06, 2007, 10:10:21 PM »

campaign rocks, but you'll lose online cause it doesnt teach you to fight koreans

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #22 on:** August 06, 2007, 10:13:10 PM »

haha

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #23 on:** August 06, 2007, 10:16:28 PM »

Best way to learn is to start with a simple RTS like Warcraft II. Do the campaign, which will teach you how to play the game, then test yourself against the computer. After that you'll be ready for StarCraft imo

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #24 on:** August 06, 2007, 10:17:51 PM »

Warcraft II is far too dated to enjoy on its merits alone anymore.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #25 on:** August 06, 2007, 10:31:34 PM »

IT ROX

I love the style. Sure some of the mechanics are rather archaic by today's standards (WTF WHY DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU TO ATTACK? DEFEND YOURSELFS). But overall I love me some WarCraft II. I like III but it was kind of a bummer at times. Too many RPG elements

But I still play StarCraft whenever I can. I'm not great at it though; basically if I haven't raped you in the first 5 minutes of the game (ZERG RUSH) you're chances of winning increase by 50%.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #26 on:** August 06, 2007, 10:36:07 PM »

so ugly arghhh, better modern lesser known warcraft knockoffs out there..there's gotta be.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #27 on:** August 06, 2007, 10:39:46 PM »

You think it's ugly? Personally I find the art style more appealing than WCIII's.

Eduardo24 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 06, 2007, 10:41:33 PM »

Who´s Warcock?

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #29 on:** August 06, 2007, 10:41:54 PM »

PC 2D ages kinda bad. 3D in general ages badly.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #30 on:** August 06, 2007, 11:13:49 PM »

This 2D still works because of the great animations imo. The archers look so badass

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #31 on:** August 06, 2007, 11:14:44 PM »

I dunno starcraft doesnt even look so good anymore ,cant image what wc2 looks like

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #32 on:** August 06, 2007, 11:16:01 PM »

i'd say aoe3 is probably the best way to learn the genre. it has one of the best UIs, the tooltips/help are second to none, and the easy AIs are a fuckin' cakewalk.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #33 on:** August 06, 2007, 11:31:47 PM »

StarCraft has aged very well! I love the look, and I'll go to my grave arguing that it looks better than WCIII

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #34 on:** August 06, 2007, 11:33:12 PM »

WCIII is ugly 3d

Fragamemnon · « **Reply #35 on:** August 07, 2007, 11:41:58 AM »

Quote from: Synthesizer Patel on August 06, 2007, 09:23:37 PM

I HAVE TO PLAY STARCRAFT, GUYS. STARRRRRR CRAAAAAFT.

Play the campaigns. A legion of RTS gamers learned how to play RTS games through StarCraft's campaign, you can do so too. Use spoilers and FAQs if you get stuck.

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #36 on:** August 07, 2007, 10:52:32 PM »

QFT

Starcraft was the 2nd RTS I'd ever played, after the original Age of Empires. You can beat the campaign stuff without knowing how to use hotkeys or memorize build orders - trial and error will get you there. I remember taking about 3hrs to beat the final level though! Don't expect to be able to jump on battle.net after that and compete in any meaningful way though...

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #37 on:** August 08, 2007, 12:13:00 AM »

Quote from: Cormacaroni on August 07, 2007, 10:52:32 PM

QFT

Starcraft was the 2nd RTS I'd ever played, after the original Age of Empires. You can beat the campaign stuff without knowing how to use hotkeys or memorize build orders - trial and error will get you there. I remember taking about 3hrs to beat the final level though! Don't expect to be able to jump on battle.net after that and compete in any meaningful way though...

Did they ever fix the cheating? I remember some of my friends used to cheat like crazy in Starcraft.

Error Macro · « **Reply #38 on:** August 08, 2007, 01:55:32 AM »

Quote from: Synthesizer Patel on August 06, 2007, 07:20:57 PM

I have to play Starcraft. I can't play any newer RTS. My life for Aiur.

RED ALERT

You must play Red Alert.

This concludes the alert.

brawndolicious · « **Reply #39 on:** August 08, 2007, 04:15:16 AM »

I was playing this when I was 6, how do you not get it?

if you're totally shit at the genre no matter what you do then use cheats in starcraft.

"food for thought" gives you food (no supply depot's, etc.)

"black sheep wall" lets you see the whole map (no black fog of war)

there's other ones that prevent your units from taking damage, automatically win the level, etc.

if you just play the campaigns in order then you'll probably not have any trouble.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #40 on:** August 08, 2007, 04:17:53 AM »

In multiplayer? I've never witnessed anyone cheating over Battle.net

But yea I used more than a few cheats to ensure my domination in the campaign

ToxicAdam · « **Reply #41 on:** August 08, 2007, 01:24:41 PM »

The only way I loved multiplayer was by playing mods. I wasted hours and hours playing Paintball, CTF and the other dozen clever mods that people created for it.

The single player experience was pretty fun .. but by the time I got to the Protoss section, I was pretty bored.

News:

Author Topic: Bearded PC Defense Force: Teach me to play Starcraft! to LOVE Starcraft! (Read 5222 times)