Author Topic: Dick Cheney: Invading Iraq would create quagmire. (Read 2143 times)

brawndolicious · « **on:** August 12, 2007, 03:07:04 AM »

[youtube=425,350]6BEsZMvrq-I[/youtube]

It's from an interview in 1994. He makes a lot of good points about how you'd lose a lot of american lives, how other countries (especially in the area) would not help invade it, and how keeping order in that part of the world would be next to impossible. He specifically says that not very many american soldiers lives were worth it to take out saddam.

drozmight · « **Reply #1 on:** August 12, 2007, 03:07:58 AM »

WHAT A DICK!

drozmight · « **Reply #2 on:** August 12, 2007, 03:08:21 AM »

SLUUUUURTS!

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #3 on:** August 12, 2007, 03:12:58 AM »

CHENEY 96

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #4 on:** August 12, 2007, 03:14:43 AM »

DIFFERENT PEOPLE! I CAN SEE THE ZIPPER!

ToxicAdam · « **Reply #5 on:** August 12, 2007, 03:22:21 AM »

See, I knew Obama never had an original thought of his own.

brawndolicious · « **Reply #6 on:** August 12, 2007, 03:39:31 AM »

suits don't have zippers though but obama said if pakistan ate tacos he's do military on them, pd's whiteness is disgusting but droz; they censore dick at teamxbox.

drozmight · « **Reply #7 on:** August 12, 2007, 03:43:31 AM »

If Pakistan ate tacos I'd drive over there and raze that country myself.

Edit: Wait, what are we talking about?

brawndolicious · « **Reply #8 on:** August 12, 2007, 03:57:55 AM »

I originally posted this at TXB because they have a lot of bushies but they censored dick over there. first post/thread I make and it's censored, even though they love bush, they censored his VP. and I don't mean it like that.

I think **** owned himself in the youtube link. Rather hard.

god I just drank a 1.9 liter double gulp of diet pepsi so I can't think straight right now. god I still need to choose a college major. what's a good one with an actual future? you know they're taking halo 3 pre-orders at the 7-11 I went to. it's like walking distance from me.

freaking I hate DICK.

drozmight · « **Reply #9 on:** August 12, 2007, 04:12:25 AM »

Political Sci

Then you can be a pundit.

brawndolicious · « **Reply #10 on:** August 12, 2007, 06:11:21 AM »

law teachers dress like hobos, I like that. but they sound boring.

AdmiralViscen · « **Reply #11 on:** August 12, 2007, 02:12:25 PM »

Wow.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #12 on:** August 12, 2007, 02:17:19 PM »

Obama is dead wrong on Pakistan

brawndolicious · « **Reply #13 on:** August 12, 2007, 09:19:41 PM »

you're a fucking idiot.

Gay Boy · « **Reply #14 on:** August 12, 2007, 10:57:36 PM »

Quote from: am nintenho on August 12, 2007, 09:19:41 PM

you're a fucking idiot.

But Obama IS wrong. He started sword rattling threating to attack countries in a very Cheney like matter. He is doing it because he is self-conscious that he doesn't seem like he is tough enough compared to Hillary and ended up looking like a fool.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #15 on:** August 12, 2007, 11:01:48 PM »

A total fool. He doesn't seem to realize that America doesn't hold all the cards with respect to Pakistan. You don't unilaterally invade an unstable nuclear power.

btw Cheebs my dad went campaigning for Obama today lol. He went door to door with this other dude. On one hand I'm glad to see he's into politics, but I kinda feel sucky when I critisize Obama in front of him. $:-\$

brawndolicious · « **Reply #16 on:** August 13, 2007, 12:02:04 AM »

I was just randomly talking about pakistan.

personally I hope biden wins. he's like the mccain of liberals.

only really not. like moderate democrats like mccain (I don't really know/care) but biden is extremely moderate for a democrat. but smart, and he nearly implied a racist phrase to obama. which is awesome.

Gay Boy · « **Reply #17 on:** August 13, 2007, 12:13:13 AM »

Quote from: am nintenho on August 13, 2007, 12:02:04 AM

I was just randomly talking about pakistan.

personally I hope biden wins. he's like the mccain of liberals.

only really not. like moderate democrats like mccain (I don't really know/care) but biden is extremely moderate for a democrat. but smart, and he nearly implied a racist phrase to obama. which is awesome.

biden more or less says "fuck you" to democrats who wanna pull out. He is a cool guy.

brawndolicious · « **Reply #18 on:** August 13, 2007, 12:32:45 AM »

it's odd how nobody ever talks about him though. He seems nice. Pretty moderate on everything. I've heard people talk more about ron paul in spirited debates about how jews are raping us through the federal reserve but nobody gives a shit that somebody is trying to mebbe do something productive.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #19 on:** August 13, 2007, 01:29:13 AM »

Biden is a realist, and therefore will never make it to the White House. He's unwilling to tell the base what it wants to hear - we'll pull out from Iraq in my first 100 days, et al. In every debate he always points out how much of the dem's promises are just "talk", and for that I salute him

Mandark · « **Reply #20 on:** August 13, 2007, 02:36:06 AM »

Dur, if we decided to start pulling out ASAP, then we would be pulling out ASAP.

Complete withdrawal within [arbitrarily small time frame] wouldn't be feasible, but outside maybe Kucinich, Gravel, and Paul, nobody's proposing that.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #21 on:** August 13, 2007, 02:46:32 AM »

Out of the candidates who do you "like/agree with" the most? Many of them are so similar but there are some differences. It's hard for me to decide because none of them get my full approval. But like I said, Biden is definitely cool in my book, and I'm warming up to the fact that I'll probably be voting for Hillary in the Michigan primary. But...I'm still hoping Obama will impress me at the last minute to save me the mental anguish

Do you think pulling out within [arbitrarily small time frame] will further destabilize the situation, and possibly provide an open door to more problems (perhaps foreign) in Iraq? Seems like there is no 100% "right" answer to fix this problem

Mandark · « **Reply #22 on:** August 13, 2007, 03:15:35 AM »

Foreign incursions aren't that likely, contra Cheney-94. The Shia won't rush to join Iran and the Sunni won't rush to join Saudi Arabia or Syria (which is run by Alawites anyway).

To answer the question, the US government can not fix the problem in Iraq. Downshifting goals from "Create a utopia" to "fix the infrastructure" or "train enough troops" doesn't help. Keeping a third of the troops there to do nothing unless things get Even Worse, and then expecting this smaller force to deal with a bigger problem, won't help.

Whoever is president should go to the generals, say "I want the troops out of Iraq. How soon can we do that without putting them in danger or putting an unreasonable logistic strain on the military?"

If Biden wanted to get the troops out ASAP, but was warning people that the process could take months, that's one thing. If he's pushing the idea that the US needs to stay until certain goals are accomplished, even if those goals are more modest than Bush's, he's wrong.

Mandark · « **Reply #23 on:** August 13, 2007, 03:40:45 AM »

Basically, "We owe it to the Iraqis to help them rebuild" only works if 1) the US government can actually get it done, and 2) the Iraqi population wants our troops there. Neither is true at this point.

"But we have to be able to do SOMETHING!" Yeah, yeah. I know. The reality of the situation is awful, but there's a cost to not facing up to it.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #24 on:** August 13, 2007, 03:43:43 AM »

Your points are valid, although I still can't help but support the "We owe it to the Iraqis to help them rebuild" argument, to one degree or another. It just seems...wrong to destroy a country and then leave it to rot. But on the same coin it seems wrong to occupy it against the people's will while people needlessly die. Lose lose all around

brawndolicious · « **Reply #25 on:** August 13, 2007, 04:08:43 AM »

The Biden-Gelb plan is:

1. Keep Iraq together by giving its major groups breathing room in their own regions and control over their daily lives. A central government would be left in charge of common interests like defending the borders and distributing oil revenues.
2. Secure the support of the Sunnis -- who have no oil -- by guaranteeing them a proportionate share of oil revenue and reintegrating those with no blood on their hands.
3. Increase, not end, reconstruction assistance but insist that the oil-rich Arab Gulf states fund it and tie it to the creation of a massive jobs program and to the protection of minority rights.
4. Initiate a major diplomatic offensive to enlist the support of the major powers and Iraq's neighbors for a political settlement in Iraq and create an Oversight Contact Group to enforce regional commitments.
5. Begin the phased redeployment of U.S. forces this year and withdraw most of them by 2008, with a small follow-on force to keep the neighbors honest and to strike any concentration of terrorists.

His plans may rely too much on cooperation from other countries (sarcasm) but he admits that it's possible NONE of the goals will be achieved.

Mandark · « **Reply #26 on:** August 13, 2007, 04:23:51 AM »

So the plan is to impose laws on federalism, oil revenues, and de-Baathification on what is meant to be a sovereign nation? A nation full of people that already chafe at the presence of US troops?

I'm not sure if that's more or less dumb than Ken Pollack's "We should overthrow Maliki, but not really overthrow him, just get him replaced" plan. Either way, it's pretty dumb.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #27 on:** August 13, 2007, 04:32:54 AM »

On paper it sounds great but in reality seems unlikely. Like you said, it relies a lot on cultural and country cooperation, something the middle east is not known for.

Mandark · « **Reply #28 on:** August 13, 2007, 04:36:55 AM »

Um, it relies on the US forcing Iraq to adopt a new constitution and laws, and them not getting supremely pissed off about it.

This sort of half-assed "planning" boils down to picking an acceptable end state, then saying "Make it happen. Oh, and get Saudi Arabia to chip in."

It's like whenever someone says "We need to disarm the militias, then train an army loyal to the government." We need to. We can't. I'm not sure whether Biden's smart for not trying to take on the militias, or dumb for leaving out one of the biggest problems in Iraq.

brawndolicious · « **Reply #29 on:** August 13, 2007, 05:24:02 AM »

you have to realize that biden's plan is based on getting baghdad above 1 hour of electricity a day. about 4/5 the cost of the war is rebuilding and that's because power and water needs have increased in Iraq. you have to get the country able to work, this WILL require the countries sharing borders to cooperate a little but not actually take the burden of rebuilding.

right now Iraqis are rushing to the protection of sectarian leaders who want civil war. you have to start creating a stable democracy to slowly take power away from them to win the civil war. at least I hope that's all that biden's plan is.

News:

Author Topic: Dick Cheney: Invading Iraq would create quagmire. (Read 2143 times)