BioShock: Before the Backlash (no spoilers, i swear)

[demi]

I believe this game will have a very nice backlash coming its way.

It's certainly deserving of its high marks, but to be given a perfect 10 or 5? I don't believe this to be the case, sorry.

Having finished the game on Normal, and having not played System Shock 2, these are what I did not like about BioShock:

- Hacking is useless and gets just annoying after hacking the 100th Vending Machine doing the same pipe maze puzzle. Couldn't they have varied these up or something?

- LOTS of useless stuff (see hacking above); Guns you wont bother to use, Plasmids you wont bother to use

example (spoilered, not story related):

spoiler (click to show/hide)

The last gun you get is the Crossbow, but by this time your Shotgun will already be upgraded, and chances are you haven't even touched any of the other guns. It's useless.

[close]

- Inventing stuff is pretty useless and limited, you can only make certain ammo, and maybe a couple Tonics that I could see. This could have been really sweet, but it's just really not.

- Lots of multi-goals, i.e. "go here and get this, now go all the way here to get this", distracts and halts the overall progress of this rollercoaster ride

- Shotgun is overpowered when upgraded (which isn't particularly a bad thing, per se), makes all other guns useless (see USELESS note above)

- Last boss is pretty tame, cool, but tame and easy (see note above; Shotgun pwns)

Gonna spoiler (not story related) this one:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

ESCORT MISSION AT THE VERY END OF THE GAME?!

[close]

- I think I got the bad ending, but it was a pretty lame ending, I plan on replaying it again and getting the other ending (I dont believe there are 3 endings, just two)

- Maybe I don't have the right Tonic, but why is there 4 zeros in the money counter, when the max you can go up to is $500? Not even $999?


The story is good, but pretty easy to figure out if you're paying attention or you're all too familiar with the classic book of Plot Twists(tm). The atmosphere is great, the art direction is great, the theme is great, the usual aesthetic (is that the right word?) stuff is just solid and high marks. This is why the game is getting such high marks, because it's just so easy to ignore the actual gameplay because you're so immersed in the environment, and you want to progress further and see how this tale unfolds, by searching every nook and cranny for that one Audio Diary.

[y2kev]

Good post demi. I thank you for not including spoilers.

[CajoleJuice]

The backlash is definitely inevitable. Hell, I might even be a part of it! I was when it came to RE4.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

thanks for not including spoilers.

I'm still hyped about it, but some of the stuff you mentioned (like repetitive hacking) was an issue in SS2.

[bork]

Any game this hyped is going to get a backlash.  It's inevitable...my biggest concern is the lack of replay value.  It doesn't seem like the kind of game most people would play more than once or twice.  But I loved the demo and am looking quite forward to it. 

I do think that despite all the GOTY proclamations Bioshock is getting, it will be bought n' beaten quickly by most people, and forgotten about by the time games like Halo 3 and Mass Effect are released.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I think the most exciting thing about Bioshock is that it really feels like the start of a new generation. This gen has been shit-for-games so far, mostly gussied up PS2 titles, so seeing something that REALLY looks new and different is getting people super hot and bothered.

[demi]

After playing the demo, I was EXTREMELY hyped, it was all I could think about, all I talked about

Upon finishing the game, I am extremely satisfied now that it's over.

Much like smoking a cigarette after sex, I feel like puffing a whole carton. The game is just really good and satisfying, even with all those nitpicks. It certainly didn't distract from my overall play.

Now I have to wait, because I can't talk to anyone about the game!  :'(

[CajoleJuice]

Any game this hyped is going to get a backlash.  It's inevitable...my biggest concern is the lack of replay value.  It doesn't seem like the kind of game most people would play more than once or twice.  But I loved the demo and am looking quite forward to it. 

I do think that despite all the GOTY proclamations Bioshock is getting, it will be bought n' beaten quickly by most people, and forgotten about by the time games like Halo 3 and Mass Effect are released.

The last game I played through twice was Super Mario 64.

Kinda makes me wonder why I bother buying single-player games and keeping them...

[Madrun Badrun]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181106

[demi]

Post my impressions Arvie, the demi factor has spoken

[abrader]

i kinda just got backlash playing the demo again tonight...

To mw i think this game will end up being as good as the suffering.

[Eduardo24]

Thanks Demi.  At least you are voicing what you think was wrong with the game.  I am happy that you still loved it despite it´s flaws.

[Madrun Badrun]

Post my impressions Arvie, the demi factor has spoken

K.

But only if you tell me you loves me? 

[Eduardo24]

Also, if the game is THAT good, I don`t want a sequel to it.  At least, not in the next 4 years. 

[Madrun Badrun]

posted in this thread now, http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7447326&posted=1#post7447326  has the other one was locked. 

[demi]

You're gonna get banned

[ToxicAdam]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7447420&postcount=35


Lets see if I get banned too..

[Madrun Badrun]

why?

[abrader]

why?

Because you posted Demi's review....

The mods whoever who dont like Demi will hate you and find a time to make an example out of you....

Its kind of like in Final Fantasy when death puts that countdown timer over your head......your number is comming up!

[Madrun Badrun]

meh, I hardly post over there anyways. 

[demi]

I doubt you guys will get banned, but I'd love to be surprised

IF you really want to get banned, I would be more than happy to give you some REAL spoilers

[abrader]

I doubt you guys will get banned, but I'd love to be surprised

IF you really want to get banned, I would be more than happy to give you some REAL spoilers

You know they ban people all the time just because someone aligns with someone they dont like.

[Smooth Groove]

I doubt you guys will get banned, but I'd love to be surprised

IF you really want to get banned, I would be more than happy to give you some REAL spoilers

Do it.  I'm sure there're enough joke accounts here that we can use.  I'm sure you have one.  

[Smooth Groove]

There will be backlash of four kinds in response to the Bioshock hype.  First there will be the contrarians who will hate just to gain internet credibility or whatever.  Those people are fine, as I can't begrudge anyone their trolling, especially on that shithole GAF.  Second will be Nintendo fans who are Nintendo fans and love sales numbers and business philosophies, not actual games.  They suck, but this is nothing new.  Thirdly there is going to be legitimate critics, and their lot is to be thrown to the dogs by those who can't stand the idea of people not liking something as much as they do, or because people confuse the use of ones critical falculties for console loyalty.  Last will be Halo fanatics who will confuse Bioshock's focused attempt with an inability on the part of the developer to cram as many features into the game as possible.  They are thirteen and call white folk distinguished black fellows for lack of a real insult, so in all honesty their opinion is of little value.

Why do Sony fans always get a free pass?  The SDF are already getting ready to damn it with faint praise.  Can't wait for comments about how Bioshock has "nice art" but nothing technically stunning like Heavenly Sword, Ratchet, Uncharted, Little Big Planet, etc. 

[demi]

I don't hate Bioshock at all, but I am not going to parade this as GOTY, it certainly didnt feel like it. It is a VERY good contender though, but this is the year of Halo 3 and Mass Effect, among others.

I like to look at things and ask myself what I didn't like, and how it could be changed.

[y2kev]

There will be backlash of four kinds in response to the Bioshock hype.  First there will be the contrarians who will hate just to gain internet credibility or whatever.  Those people are fine, as I can't begrudge anyone their trolling, especially on that shithole GAF.  Second will be Nintendo fans who are Nintendo fans and love sales numbers and business philosophies, not actual games.  They suck, but this is nothing new.  Thirdly there is going to be legitimate critics, and their lot is to be thrown to the dogs by those who can't stand the idea of people not liking something as much as they do, or because people confuse the use of ones critical falculties for console loyalty.  Last will be Halo fanatics who will confuse Bioshock's focused attempt with an inability on the part of the developer to cram as many features into the game as possible.  They are thirteen and call white folk distinguished black fellows for lack of a real insult, so in all honesty their opinion is of little value.

Why do Sony fans always get a free pass?  The SDF are already getting ready to damn it with faint praise.  Can't wait for comments about how Bioshock has "nice art" but nothing technically stunning like Heavenly Sword, Ratchet, Uncharted, Little Big Planet, etc. 

Some people are pretty bad at GAF right now...mainly FortunateSon 

I kinda feel like I've already played the game. I don't like hype extended for this long when some people have the game and I don't.

Billy's list is pretty good. It's impossible to have any conversation about the demo (not the game) that isn't gushing praise without being shouted down....and I think the demo is fantastic.

[demi]

If you like the demo, expect to do a lot more of that.

[tiesto]

Sony fans haven't had enough time to piss me off enough.

For me, they're really making up for all that lost time, though...

The constant praise is beginning to wear on me, too, but I still look forward to playing the 'shock.

[Mondain]

Agreed with demi. After a few hours of play I found this game to be very underwhelming.

I fail to see what is so spectacular about this game except for the beefed-up Unreal Warfare graphics and the trippy underwater world.

I hate this weird retro underwater city with all of my guts, and all the characters along with the weird political allusions that the game constantly throws at you. Irrational should've made another sci-fi universe.

At least in Deus Ex and Half-Life you see the characters on screen and they rationalize what's going on around you. In Bioshock all you see are a bunch of deformed berserk freaks who scream stuff that you don't even get to understand. And your assistant "Altar" just tells you audio replies that you don't even understand amid the action. You don't even really get to slow down and read abandoned notes to understand the plot since everything just moves so fast.

The shooting isn't all that great and is even pretty boring in parts, basically you have some fetch quests to do and puzzles to solve to unblock doors. That's so grandiose and innovative, it absolutely wasn't present in shooters since the days of Wolfenstein 3D! The upgrade system isn't all that developped either, Deus Ex had one that was about 10x better.

I found Condemned to be a much better game than this. Deus Ex remains the best game of all time.

[demi]

Jotaro, you can read all the audio messages you get in the game by going through the logbook (Back button)

[Van Cruncheon]

...because the game is a hilarious dig at nietzche and rand, mondain?

[Mondain]

but it doesn't even seem interesting to follow

when Half-Life and Deus Ex came out, I thought of next to nothing but these games and their plots for days if not weeks on end... in Deus Ex I frenetically read all the newspapers, datacubes and notes that could be found in the various environments

in Bioshock I just couldn't help but to think of going back to Blue Dragon ASAP

[demi]

I'm not familiar with Rand and all that political jumbo, so I guess people who are more familiar can get more kicks out of the story and dialogue.

[anthonyOA]

The reason all the reviewers are hyped is because its so rae that a game plays and looks different from the slew of titles that we somehow refer to as A/AA/AAA. You won't get the same experience with Bioshock anywhere else, that's why the hype. reviewers are overlooking any flaws the game may have in favour of praising the things it does right due to it originality and execution of art style.

the backlash will come, yes. but i won't give a shit, as i will have played, enjoyed and finished it.

[FatalT]

I'm already sick of Bioshock. It was only yesterday that I was scouring Toys R Us stores wanting it, however now this is just becoming overdone. DAMN YOU BIOSHOCK! DAMN YOU FOR HYPING EVERYONE!

[bork]

BI-OH, OH SHIT HYPE TRAIN DERAILING

[y2kev]

No god or kings. just men.

[tiesto]

I hate this weird retro underwater city with all of my guts, and all the characters along with the weird political allusions that the game constantly throws at you. Irrational should've made another sci-fi universe.

I agree, we can never have too many of those!!!

[demi]

No god or kings. just men.

A man builds.

A parasite asks, "Where is my share?"

The three most powerful words ever uttered - Would you kindly?

[Mondain]

"Sony fans" wouldn't have posted positive, cynicism-free opinions of Ridge Racer 6, Call of Duty 2, Condemned, Saints Row, Wartech: Senko no Ronde, The Outfit, GRAW 2, Test Drive Unlimited, Hitman Blood Money, Rockstar Table Tennis, Call of Juarez, DiRT, Blue Dragon, Enchanted Arms, Gears of War, The Bigs, over the various OA forums in these last two years when it comes to 360 games like I did.

Along with negative or lukewarm views of Untold Legends, Ridge Racer 7, and Motorstorm.

See, that's what a real unbiased gamer would tend to do. Enough with the constant libelling of my posts.

[Saint Cornelius]

You're annoying as fuck, Mondain. Grow up.

[Mupepe]

I like Mondain.  He's my baby boo and he really is pretty unbiased when it comes to games.  Don't even ask about systems though.

[nufaust]

It's certainly deserving of its high marks, but to be given a perfect 10 or 5? I don't believe this to be the case, sorry.

agreed, it certainly deserves high 9s that it's been getting, but not a perfect ten. imho this game is the half life of this gen, not the greatest game ever made.

- Hacking is useless and gets just annoying after hacking the 100th Vending Machine doing the same pipe maze puzzle. Couldn't they have varied these up or something?

but you can hack pretty much every machines/safe without playing the pipe maze mini game once you get the hacking tool and start collecting items.

- Inventing stuff is pretty useless and limited, you can only make certain ammo, and maybe a couple Tonics that I could see. This could have been really sweet, but it's just really not.

oh yes it is. actually imho all the fun ammo you get in the game comes from buying them from hacked machines or by creating them at invent centers.

- Lots of multi-goals, i.e. "go here and get this, now go all the way here to get this", distracts and halts the overall progress of this rollercoaster ride

disagree again, i really appreciate those are the moment since i can go fully experimental and see the possibilities/combinations game offers.

[Mondain]

Half-Life of this gen? Don't kid yourself. Half-Life was just about the most revolutionary game ever when it came out. For years PC gaming magazines and websites couldn't stop praising its innovations. Even when you play it today it still feels fresh compared to your average shooter.

I'd reckon that Bioshock deserves something in-between 8.5-9.0.

[demi]

but you can hack pretty much every machines/safe without playing the pipe maze mini game once you get the hacking tool and start collecting items.

You can only carry $500, and paying off a hack costs about half your dough. Heck, some hacks aren't even possible WITHOUT using a tool or buying out. My main gripe is that it's the SAME pipe maze puzzle, and that just completely kills the whole thing. At least make each variation of hackable things different, i.e. turrets have their own puzzle, vending machines have their own puzzle, etc.

oh yes it is. actually imho all the fun ammo you get in the game comes from buying them from hacked machines or by creating them at invent centers.

EVERY piece of ammo in the game sucks ass. The only GOOD ammo is the anti-personnel ammo, and even then you are extremely limited on how much you keep. Maybe I just kick ass and had no reason to use ammo. Note my above qualm that the Shotgun is overpowered -- because it is! Why would I want to make all these bullets when the Shotgun, whose regular ammo is plenty available in Vending Machines, does at least quadruple the damage? The ONLY useful item you can invent is the Hacking Tool, and the sporadic Tonics (especially Bloodlust).

disagree again, i really appreciate those are the moment since i can go fully experimental and see the possibilities/combinations game offers.

You are right, it does let you get the opportunity to explore more of the game, but it's so confined, meaning I was progressing and getting more of the story and environment, but now I have to drop everything and go fetch X things before moving on. The worst offender of this is Arcadia, I am sure you know what I mean.

[Eel O'Brian]

1.  Killed a big daddy, only there was no little sister to be found.  That's bullshit.  They should be right there beside them.  I looked everywhere and couldn't find her.  So I basically wasted a bunch of ammo and time being killed over and over for no payoff whatsoever. 

2.  When you "die," if you're pulling the trigger, the first thing you do in the revitalization (or whatever) chamber is fire whatever weapon you were using, no matter if you let go of the trigger or not.  That's bullshit - you pretty much always waste a shot upon rebirth.

I think Gerstmann might be right about this one.  I love the design, music, atmosphere and style, but it's not a perfect game by any means.  Wasting that time and ammo killing that Big Daddy and no little sister afterwards nearly made me want to quit playing.

How the hell do you find the little sisters after you kill the big daddies?  Do you have to chase them all over the level or what?

[Van Cruncheon]

"Sony fans" wouldn't have posted positive, cynicism-free opinions of Ridge Racer 6, Call of Duty 2, Condemned, Saints Row, Wartech: Senko no Ronde, The Outfit, GRAW 2, Test Drive Unlimited, Hitman Blood Money, Rockstar Table Tennis, Call of Juarez, DiRT, Blue Dragon, Enchanted Arms, Gears of War, The Bigs, over the various OA forums in these last two years when it comes to 360 games like I did.

Along with negative or lukewarm views of Untold Legends, Ridge Racer 7, and Motorstorm.

See, that's what a real unbiased gamer would tend to do. Enough with the constant libelling of my posts. (Image removed from quote.)

none of those games save PERHAPS gears of war (of which you didn't praise for the visuals) threaten your screwed-up view of the ps3's mediocre and sub-360 technical prowess. they're "safe" for you to pretend to like. you're spinning for the ps3 despite reality's best efforts to keep you in place.

[Van Cruncheon]

eel, the little sisters hide. apparently you REALLY hafta scour for them.

[demi]

No, you don't.

Follow a Big Daddy to a "hidey hole" (that's what the Sisters call them) and he will pound on it. Eventually, the Little Sister will crawl out.

[demi]

Oh yeah, the good ending is better than the bad, but both endings are very unfulfilling, IMO. Just didn't seem like much thought was put into them.

[y2kev]

I'm actually not crazy about the regenning thing. You can just totally whack away at big daddies. :\

[Van Cruncheon]

everyone likes to whack away at their big daddy

[y2kev]

everyone likes to whack away at their big daddy

:flirt

and it's not like i'm playing like jeff gerstmann, who im sure is OH HEY BIG DaDDY *whack whack whack* then nom nom nom while you are transported to a vita chamber, but whenever I see one i'm like, well, gee, why NOT take it down. of course i have fun doing it and experiment with new plasmids and ammos, but there is very little in the way of repercussions.

in fact, the only reason you wouldn't take down big daddies is if you A) seriously can't do the first person thing or B) have an emotional attachment to them.

which, honestly, the game does a good job of creating.

[Bloodwake]

Honestly, so far, I'm really enjoying BioShock, and compared to that other 10 rated 360 game (Gears of Disappointment) the story and single player is failing to disappoint me at the moment.

[Himu]

Bioshock is fun, but I like persona 3 more. i'm like 999 x more addicted.

[hyp]

i think im gonna end up playing the skate demo more than bioshock AND persona 3.  skate

[Himu]

is skate really that good because i tend to love EA extreme sports titles to pieces

[hyp]

is skate really that good because i tend to love EA extreme sports titles to pieces

seems like everyone except demi really likes it.  it's more on the hardcore/sim side so if you're into that type of thing then you'll probably enjoy it.  if you're looking for an arcade twitch/combo game, then stay far far away from skate.

[Himu]

well i don't mind sim type stuff. it just depends.

it's not arcadey at all? Hmmm. does it use those stupid ass right/left analog stick movements like they used in Fight Night? because that crap made pulling off moves impossible.

[Eel O'Brian]

I need help:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm stuck.  I can't get to the upper wharf.  There's a big iron gate with a sign behind it reading "CLOSED BY ORDER..." and I can't find a way past it.  There's a big Daddy on the other side.  I've looked everywhere, and I've already taken the pictures of the spider splicers in the bar and in Jet Postal.

[close]

Other than the excellent art and design, the great music, voice acting, and atmosphere, I'm not sure if I like this game very much.  The gameplay just flat-out sucks.  Too much playing the same section over and over again, too much bullshit - Killed another Big Daddy wasting a bunch of ammo, then the little sister disappeared AGAIN, and that is just complete and total horseshit to work so hard only to see another fucking Big Daddy standing there guarding the little sister I was after next time I am reborn/healed.  I should've rented.