Author Topic: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.  (Read 2477 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Fragamemnon

  • Excel 2008 GOTY
  • Icon
BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« on: August 27, 2007, 11:18:58 AM »
This is probably one of the best new gaming sites I've seen in a LONG time:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com

It's very much PC-slanted, but everything there is suprisingly intelligent and is actual meaningful commentary on games-no screenshot/press release previews to be found.

Here they sum up Bioshock's performance in the review circuit pretty much perfectly:

Quote
The reason it’s scooping 10/10 scores, I suspect, is because in the land of the blind, the one-eyed FPS is king.

The game is, in many ways, the best the medium has to offer. It also (painfully, at times) shows just how much room the medium has to mature.

Edit: Patel wished the thread to become full on spoiler city (no spoiler tags required), so I comply.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2007, 12:57:22 PM by Fragamemnon »
hex

MrAngryFace

  • I have the most sensible car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: Rock,Paper,Shotgun
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2007, 11:55:07 AM »
Cool cool, ill bookmark it.
o_0

Howard Alan Treesong

  • キング・メタル・ドラゴン
  • Icon
Re: Rock,Paper,Shotgun
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2007, 12:20:16 PM »
interesting take on bioshock

when people ask me what I think of it after playing it, I say: 10/10 for setting, 12/10 for sound, 17/10 for art direction, overall 8.5 (not an average). at the end of the day it was Just a Game...one of the best of the past 5 years, and a good high watermark for the industry to which we should aspire, but Just a Game nonetheless.
乱学者

Howard Alan Treesong

  • キング・メタル・ドラゴン
  • Icon
Re: Rock,Paper,Shotgun
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2007, 12:30:47 PM »
on the other hand Kieron Gilon posts at Rock, Paper, Shotgun so I dunno if I can support it
乱学者

Fragamemnon

  • Excel 2008 GOTY
  • Icon
Re: Rock,Paper,Shotgun
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2007, 12:45:14 PM »
Bioshock was the first game in a long time where I thought that the conventions-even the better ones-of the medium did more to hold it back than anything else. I still give it the 9.5 with teh whipped cream, but it's hard not to be dissapointed by the designers "falling back" at times to proven genre concepts.

Also, fuck boss battles. Are these things ever satisfying in a first person shooter?
hex

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: Rock,Paper,Shotgun
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2007, 12:48:32 PM »
I thought BioShock's was pretty cool, but it was really easy, even on Hard.

Prey's was wack.
fat

Fragamemnon

  • Excel 2008 GOTY
  • Icon
Re: Rock,Paper,Shotgun
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2007, 12:49:07 PM »
on the other hand Kieron Gilon posts at Rock, Paper, Shotgun so I dunno if I can support it

The dude seems like a mix of pretentous brit and TTLG forumgoer, which is not exactly my cup of tea, but nothing unspeakably bad either.
hex

Howard Alan Treesong

  • キング・メタル・ドラゴン
  • Icon
Re: Rock,Paper,Shotgun
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2007, 12:51:44 PM »
Kieron invented New Games Journalism

Frag, can you topic edit this into the FULL SPOILER Bioshock discussion thread? I wanna start one but this is effectively going to be that already.
乱学者

Fragamemnon

  • Excel 2008 GOTY
  • Icon
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2007, 01:06:19 PM »
New Games Journamalism is just as bad as what we had before. Sometimes it's a mess, sometimes it's engaging and interesting, much like the more traditional stuff.

SPOILERS AHOY. BIG HUGE SPOILERS. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK, YOU WILL NOT BE WARNED AGAIN IN THIS THREAD.

..
.
.
.

.




Anyway, going back to Bioshock spoilers-I really felt like the whole experience in the Proving Grounds area was botched. The game never really made you FEEL like a Big Daddy, and that was sort of a disappointing finale to the game. The last boss fight was truly wretched and I wish they had gone with something way less over the top. Fontaine was described repeatedly as a pathetic con-man, and should have died in the manner of a pathetic con-man caught in the act, not as some super Academy Award trophy come to life monster.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2007, 01:08:08 PM by Fragamemnon »
hex

Howard Alan Treesong

  • キング・メタル・ドラゴン
  • Icon
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2007, 01:27:51 PM »
BIOSHOCK SPOILERS:

The entire game sort of derailed for me after the Ryan event--Cohen's artistic madness would have made for a better foil to Ryan's hyper-rationality. (And, in fact, I thought he was being set up as that--not as a one-off area). Fontaine is--what? A mobster? What's his goal or purpose? For game that prided itself on its narrative and philosophy, the entire last third is pretty much "kill things, you big killer, you." Ryan taunted you for being a slave, a "Parasite," for being ignoble. And because of the nature of FPS gameplay, he was right. That, and the whole "would you kindly?" riff on linear objective-based gameplay, set up a really interesting morality that should have been blown wide open in the final act (ideally with more open level designs and a real gameplay choice about how you choose to deal with Rapture.)

You're also correct that you never felt like a Big Daddy, tragically--just like a guy pretending to be a Big Daddy in a suit. Which doesn't really work. The last boss fight was also totally out of character (wtf), ridiculous, and far easier than any scrap with a Big Daddy in the game.

Other than that, my biggest issue with the game was the lack of any actual significant freedom. There's like, 9 plasmids, and you can carry 6, and 3 of them are useless--why carry Security when you can just shock-n-hack as a free action? (Aside: perhaps hacking was once not a free action.) It bothered me that weapons and plasmids both were on an entirely linear, choice-free upgrade path. I would have liked to have seen some WoW-talent style differentiation in how you choose to "evolve"--maybe even tied to your harvest/rescue choices. Which threatens to drop us into Bioware morality, but would at least give the game some replayability and customizability. It's hard to argue about how it might imbalance the game when shock-n-wrench or shotgun-to-the-face work against every single opponent without fail.

If I sound pissy it's because SS2 is still the better game in many significant ways--freer level design, freer gameplay choices, a greater sense of horror and oppression, and a better narrative arc. Yet despite all this, Bioshock is still way better than Half-Life 2 (imo) and easily one of the best games of the past 5 years. It's hardly a failure--it's just one of the best games I've ever played, instead of the best, like I was hoping for (and, for the first half, felt it might actually be.)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2007, 02:14:05 PM by Synthesizer Patel »
乱学者

Howard Alan Treesong

  • キング・メタル・ドラゴン
  • Icon
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2007, 01:49:14 PM »
I also feel like I owe an apology (though I never said anything against them) to all the people going "8!" after finishing an early copy (like Demi, and my friend Ben.)

I don't think I could in good faith give it less than 9/10, but for me overall it would be an 8 or 8.5 of 10 on the "game" scale.
乱学者

Fragamemnon

  • Excel 2008 GOTY
  • Icon
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2007, 01:50:52 PM »
My beef with the plasmid and tonic system was that it often lacked syngeries, outside of the IMO wonderful way that the wrench skills were built up. Syngeries are the key to rewarding character customization and it really seemed like-outside of the wrench-they really didn't do a good job in that area.

In System Shock 2, you could choose weapons and psionic abilities that really meshed well with each other, resulting in a character with a style and manner of dealing with situations of your own choosing. This really isn't too much the case with Bioshock, and I think that's sort of a disappointment in comparison with SS2.

I think it also hurts replayability of the game. I keep hoping that they'll create another set of at least tonics, if not one or two new plasmids, and release a beefy downloadble content remix of the game. I'd also like a commentary mode for the game. I'd pay at least $10 each.

One thing that bothered me about the ending of the game is that we never really close the door on Rapture. Maybe that is for the sake of a sequel, but if the city was truly dying-and I felt that it was, especially after we liberated the only "alive" thing-the little sisters-from the city in the good ending-then I'd like to at least see its death throes.
hex

Fragamemnon

  • Excel 2008 GOTY
  • Icon
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2007, 01:52:37 PM »
I still give it a 9.5-9.8 score, though. If I was a teacher and was grading Bioshock in the way that a good lit teacher would grade an essay, I'd be hard pressed to not give out a great score to a student who was so willing and eager to be so ambitious.
hex

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2007, 01:56:45 PM »
The more you look at it, the more flaws and stuff you see in the game. That's how it is with me. I still like it, but all these perfect scores and stuff just seems a bit much. It is certainly deserving of its sales, buy buy buy! I want more from these guys.
fat

Howard Alan Treesong

  • キング・メタル・ドラゴン
  • Icon
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2007, 02:07:47 PM »
My beef with the plasmid and tonic system was that it often lacked syngeries, outside of the IMO wonderful way that the wrench skills were built up. Syngeries are the key to rewarding character customization and it really seemed like-outside of the wrench-they really didn't do a good job in that area.

Precisely...I'd love to see things like giving shock a chance to auto-hack electrics, or giving bees a poison DoT, etc. At no point in Bioshock did I feel like I was playing in any way other than the "accepted" way. The more linear levels really only lent themselves to a single traversal mechanism.

Inventing and weapon upgrading were also similarly scanty. It's really too bad, because if that had been beefed up to match the rest of the game the entire thing would be a full letter grade higher.

And I'm with you, though I was holding out for fan mods/remixes of the PC version, not anything from Irrational themselves. Some form of DLC seems inevitable, though. Maybe a whole new wing of Rapture? :D
乱学者

The Fake Shemp

  • Ebola Carrier
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2007, 02:15:52 PM »
No game is perfect and you'll always be able to find flaws in anything, especially if you happen to have intimate knowledge of the industry.  I'm not saying I believe BioShock is perfect, because it's not, but to get all haughty because it was awarded perfect scores when folks think at worst that it deserves half a point lower is just crazy.  Is any game going to merit a perfect score by that standard?  There will always be something wrong.  I think the "perfect score" exists, more or less, to identify landmark games - of which BioShock is certainly one.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2007, 02:33:15 PM by Willco »
PSP

GilloD

  • TAKE THE LIFE OF FRED ASTAIRE. MAKE HIM PAY. TRANSFER HIS FAME TO YOU.
  • Senior Member
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2007, 08:15:23 PM »
Can we talk about the atrocious "Good" ending? All the wads on NeoGaf are wetting their pants for the same reason "LOL RANDOM" has become the sad battlecry of an entire generation. If you just cram together two things at odds with one another (LOVE and VIOLENCE) people with no real desire to critique the game go "OH WOW". Because after all that violence, who expected something so touching?

You don't get brownie points just for being obscure. The ending was a fucked cop-out, a Hallmark card ending to a mediocre plot that promised more than it delivered. There was a wealth of truly rich material in the touted Objectivist philosophy, but it broke down to "R U SELFISH? CAN U HELP IT? LOL. U R PLAYING A VIDEO GAME".

That said, the game is a solid 8 is we're willing to bump every other game ever made down a point. (Wait, shouldn't that just make it a 9?). It's incredibly well presented and it does so many things incredibly well that it's unfortunate it falls to pieces in the way nearly every other game does.
wha

Howard Alan Treesong

  • キング・メタル・ドラゴン
  • Icon
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2007, 08:18:12 PM »
the Good ending was the best 22 seconds of my life!

...okay, not really. incredibly anticlimactic, though. I thought that it worked well, but it's a copout in that the whole question of Rapture and its ideals are totally ignored in favor of becoming a big brother to a ragtag bunch of genetic misfits. Poor final third of the game.
乱学者

GilloD

  • TAKE THE LIFE OF FRED ASTAIRE. MAKE HIM PAY. TRANSFER HIS FAME TO YOU.
  • Senior Member
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2007, 08:49:04 PM »
the Good ending was the best 22 seconds of my life!

...okay, not really. incredibly anticlimactic, though. I thought that it worked well, but it's a copout in that the whole question of Rapture and its ideals are totally ignored in favor of becoming a big brother to a ragtag bunch of genetic misfits. Poor final third of the game.

The number one thing I hated about the game was how... The entire game felt like a movie set. For all of it's squalor, Rapture didn't feel lived in. There was no one left except for a handful of crazies, Fontaine and Ryan. Really? No one else? No one sane? It just felt empty and, worse, like no one had ever been there in the first place. It came off like a fun house.
wha

ferrarimanf355

  • I have the cutest car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2007, 10:46:48 PM »
the Good ending was the best 22 seconds of my life!

...okay, not really. incredibly anticlimactic, though. I thought that it worked well, but it's a copout in that the whole question of Rapture and its ideals are totally ignored in favor of becoming a big brother to a ragtag bunch of genetic misfits. Poor final third of the game.

The number one thing I hated about the game was how... The entire game felt like a movie set. For all of it's squalor, Rapture didn't feel lived in. There was no one left except for a handful of crazies, Fontaine and Ryan. Really? No one else? No one sane? It just felt empty and, worse, like no one had ever been there in the first place. It came off like a fun house.
What about that Russian doctor chick? She was sane, right?
500

GilloD

  • TAKE THE LIFE OF FRED ASTAIRE. MAKE HIM PAY. TRANSFER HIS FAME TO YOU.
  • Senior Member
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2007, 01:43:00 PM »
the Good ending was the best 22 seconds of my life!

...okay, not really. incredibly anticlimactic, though. I thought that it worked well, but it's a copout in that the whole question of Rapture and its ideals are totally ignored in favor of becoming a big brother to a ragtag bunch of genetic misfits. Poor final third of the game.

The number one thing I hated about the game was how... The entire game felt like a movie set. For all of it's squalor, Rapture didn't feel lived in. There was no one left except for a handful of crazies, Fontaine and Ryan. Really? No one else? No one sane? It just felt empty and, worse, like no one had ever been there in the first place. It came off like a fun house.
What about that Russian doctor chick? She was sane, right?

German. She was a Nazi doctor, right? But she also had like 15 words of dialogue and 14 of them were "YOU ARE THE LIGHT" over and over.
wha

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2007, 01:44:30 PM »
Julie was also alive for the brief minute you met her

Also that one guy you see get gutted in the beginning
fat

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2007, 02:33:31 PM »
I thought the part with your Plasmids going wonky pretty cool, but since I use like... ZERO of the Plasmids they randomize, it was no issue
fat

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2007, 11:12:51 PM »
I'd ask you which ending you got but it doesn't matter since they both suck.
fat

Smooth Groove

  • Both teams played hard, my man
  • Senior Member
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2007, 11:15:45 PM »
The good ending wasn't bad but like Groo said, it looked kinda poor.  There's no reason why that couldn't have been done in real-time.  Most of the game looked prettier than the ending video. 

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2007, 11:22:28 PM »
The game is ridiculously easy. You should be done within a day.
fat

Smooth Groove

  • Both teams played hard, my man
  • Senior Member
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2007, 11:26:32 PM »
I've found that the eletric gel is the best way to take down Big Daddies.  They can't move at all when you use that weapon and it does a lot of damage.  Just make sure to equip yourself with the plasmids that give you extra electrical damage. 

CajoleJuice

  • kill me
  • Icon
Re: BIOSHOCK SPOILERS THREAD. DO NOT READ UNTIL GAME IS FINISHED.
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2007, 02:46:47 AM »
BUMP BITCHES

Because I just beat it. Most of the stuff I feel like saying has already been said. The whole "would you kindly" angle was fucking greeaaattt. It definitely took a bit of a dive after that.

I used all the plasmids they randomized so it was fine.  I never got the hypnotize big daddy plasmid though.  I think it was because I was a little sister killing machine.

I'll just say I got this plasmid when that randomize plasmids part came up, and I killed every Little Sister. Evil ending FTW
AMC