Author Topic: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.  (Read 4792 times)

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MrAngryFace

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PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« on: September 05, 2007, 11:14:24 AM »
It just cant get a break:



Quote
You couldn't pay us to play Lair any more than we have already. The game has given me a new respect for the professional reviewer, because when a game like Lair hits their desk, they have no recourse. They must tread, as Dante did, down that scarred staircase and into the greasy throat of hell.

The people behind the solid reinvention of Warhawk chose - in their kindness, and in their wisdom - to let the player decide if they want to wrangle their flight gameplay via Sixaxis or the analog sticks, a move that'll prove prescient. Controls aren't the only problem in Lair, though, so altering the controls wouldn't represent a complete solution. You're using those controls to accomplish frustrating, unimaginative, sometimes enigmatic tasks.  People will forgive a good game its indulgences if they feel they're being met halfway, and one never gets that impression here.  You may find yourself in disbelief an hour into it, the Electronics Boutique receipt crumpled in your fist, trying to correlate Lair's non-stop torrent of anguish and your missing sixty bucks.

I would never ask you to take my word over your own experience, though, and you'll certainly find those online who will bolster you in your choice to purchase. There are some who derive a kind of perverse superiority from their mastery of the game's ambiguous mechanics.  For my part, I don't give a good Goddamn if someone has trained themselves to eat shit and like it. The game is not challenging, it's difficult to play, and it's taken many years but I'm ready to begin making this distinction.

This is an indictment of Lair, and not an indictment of the Playstation 3 as a platform like you might see burst online in some flammable thread. Playstation 3 owners will have plenty to crow about soon enough. Heavenly Sword, well... We'll talk about Heavenly Sword later.  But
Lair and Sony aren't synonyms, it isn't emblematic of your choice of console. It's just... bad, a raw-feeling launch title that even an additional year could not rescue.

We don't need Lair to be good, and so we don't need to make excuses for it. It has been extremely strange to watch the community react to reviews like the one at IGN, with claims that the site is "known" to be biased against the Playstation 3 - as though a site with IGN's expenses could afford to play such a dangerous game with one of the pillars of the medium. The reality is that IGN delivering a four-point-nine review of a title this anticipated is a sign of their allegiance to the reader. I'm not a fan of the site. IGN.com is not my homepage. But scoring a game this low, so at variance with their average numerics, is the sort of maneuver that should restore faith.


(CW)TB out.


BONUS:

« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 11:17:18 AM by MrAngryFace »
o_0

Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2007, 12:31:01 PM »
Played some more last night, I'd like to know what Factor 5 was doing when they were supposed to be working on this piece of crap.
野球

abrader

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2007, 12:54:52 PM »
I will admit im usually baked when playing this - perhaps thats the secret to my enjoyment...

Either way i still like it.

hyp

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2007, 01:13:19 PM »
I will admit im usually baked when playing this - perhaps thats the secret to my enjoyment...

Either way i still like it.


 :lol they should have included a pack of brownies.
pyh

Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2007, 01:17:18 PM »
I will admit im usually baked when playing this - perhaps thats the secret to my enjoyment...

Either way i still like it.


It's not horrid, but it's not something I'd recommend, either. I wish there were huge open levels where I could just fly around and shoot stuff.

And a better lock-on system.
野球

Smooth Groove

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2007, 01:35:52 PM »
This is the response (supposedly) from the reviewer at Play: 


The Penny Arcade comic is wrong in calling Dave Halverson a liar when I (Casey Loe) wrote that review. And your assumption is right—I DID like Lair, and I do stand by my review. And I'm far from the only one who liked it and is baffled by the reviews, as you can see for yourself in the official thread. I don't know why the controls are so intuitive to some and so awful to others. In retrospect, I probably should have penalized the game for not offering an analog control scheme, but in reviewing it without access to any outside opinions I had no way of knowing the controls would be so divisive.

I have no problem with any of the reviewers who disagreed—few games are universally loved or hated, so there's value in reading a variety of subjective opinions. Together, they paint what is apparently the accurate picture of Lair, that it's a love-it-or-hate-it game with a highly controversial control scheme. But by calling me a "liar," Penny Arcade is saying there is something objectively wrong with Lair, which is absurd. If I'm a liar for disagreeing with IGN's low opinion of Lair, then I guess anyone who enjoyed God Hand is a liar too.

MrAngryFace

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2007, 02:31:29 PM »
Oh PLAY. How can you argue about integrity with hentai ads at the back of your mag?
o_0

abrader

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2007, 06:55:53 PM »
This is the response (supposedly) from the reviewer at Play: 


The Penny Arcade comic is wrong in calling Dave Halverson a liar when I (Casey Loe) wrote that review. And your assumption is right—I DID like Lair, and I do stand by my review. And I'm far from the only one who liked it and is baffled by the reviews, as you can see for yourself in the official thread. I don't know why the controls are so intuitive to some and so awful to others. In retrospect, I probably should have penalized the game for not offering an analog control scheme, but in reviewing it without access to any outside opinions I had no way of knowing the controls would be so divisive.

I have no problem with any of the reviewers who disagreed—few games are universally loved or hated, so there's value in reading a variety of subjective opinions. Together, they paint what is apparently the accurate picture of Lair, that it's a love-it-or-hate-it game with a highly controversial control scheme. But by calling me a "liar," Penny Arcade is saying there is something objectively wrong with Lair, which is absurd. If I'm a liar for disagreeing with IGN's low opinion of Lair, then I guess anyone who enjoyed God Hand is a liar too.


I 500% agree with him.


abrader

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2007, 07:03:27 PM »
i still maintain that I have never had the controls NOT work.


demi

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2007, 07:10:35 PM »
abrader has admitted to being high when he played Lair, his statement isn't really that accurate.
fat

MrAngryFace

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2007, 07:11:00 PM »
I wish Sony fans would defend the GOOD games for ps3
o_0

abrader

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2007, 07:11:07 PM »
I learned that 180 degree turn move from playing the boss fights on marvel ultimate alliance...

i sucessfully 180 turn 99% of the time.

Its a completely different motion from the speed dash move.

I could show you in person, but its hard to type explain.

abrader

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2007, 07:12:24 PM »
I wish Sony fans would defend the GOOD games for ps3

No need to try to make this a SONY fanboi crap thread.

I dont think anyone on this forums is truely a SONY fanboi....

Anyway - Lair is still a 7.x game in my book.

MrAngryFace

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2007, 08:20:07 PM »
Maybe you dont talk to DistantMantra much...

Lair is a POOP in my book. Its like your riding a POOP dragon!
o_0

Van Cruncheon

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2007, 08:25:05 PM »
vf5 stopped being championed when the superior 360 version was announced. :'(

mlb 07 the show needs a kooky cartoon mascot, an overdesigned female lead, or a more gregarious development personality
duc

Van Cruncheon

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2007, 08:26:08 PM »
What the hell are you talking about?  The 180 turn is one of the worst implemented controls in a game since Superman 64 (which Lair bears more than a few similiarities too).

even julian eggbrecht can't successfully execute it more than 80% of the time!
duc

abrader

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2007, 08:29:13 PM »
yeah you got me - I am just pretending to like LAIR to defend SONY....

Thats also why I spent 60$ on it - just to help SONY...

demi

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2007, 08:30:26 PM »
Well it's either that or you're stupid.

Or high.

Stupidly high.
fat

abrader

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2007, 08:34:27 PM »
Well it's either that or you're stupid.

Or high.

Stupidly high.

No its just I like that game - which is my right.... Mr. Advent Rising.

demi

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2007, 08:38:43 PM »
Um, Advent Rising got better scores than Lair. You can't pull that on me, Mr. Eggbrecht.
fat

abrader

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2007, 08:39:38 PM »
If being called Eberrecht is what I have to do to maintain my freedom of choice - than go right ahead.

abrader

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2007, 08:40:30 PM »
Advent Rising is miles ahead of Lair.  You would know that if you played it.

Oh I have played it :(

There there is Two Worlds which is more like a 2.1 game....

Van Cruncheon

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2007, 08:43:57 PM »
i have played both two worlds and lair. two worlds is awful, but it is better than lair. at least it had a real game designer on it.
duc

demi

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2007, 08:44:06 PM »
Which also scored better than Lair, btw.

Maybe it's just some cwazy controversy... maybe.
fat

Van Cruncheon

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2007, 08:45:19 PM »
yup. selling out two worlds just to make lair look good is lame. there's a more apt comparison: lair = rengoku 2
duc

abrader

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2007, 08:46:34 PM »
I must say im dissapointed that you guys even discuss/contemplate or think that review scores hold any water.

Some games are liked by more people, and some games are disliked by more people.....reviewers are just one of those people....

The overall LAIR review scores reflect the reality...its disliked by more people than people who liked it.

It got many 5/10's and like 2 9/10's - pretty much the reality of how peoples opinions on it differ on it in real life.

brawndolicious

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2007, 08:46:50 PM »
WAIT





*WAIT A SECOND*


It actually looks like balls when you take a picture?

demi

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2007, 08:47:09 PM »
WAIT





*WAIT A SECOND*


It actually looks like balls when you take a picture?

Yep, Lair is that ugly.
fat

demi

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2007, 08:48:20 PM »
I must say im dissapointed that you guys even discuss/contemplate or think that review scores hold any water.

Some games are liked by more people, and some games are disliked by more people.....reviewers are just one of those people....

The overall LAIR review scores reflect the reality...its disliked by more people than people who liked it.

It got many 5/10's and like 2 9/10's - pretty much the reality of how peoples opinions on it differ on it in real life.


Reviews are a pretty general consensus on what a game is like. God Hand is awful (cause I know you are going to pull this card). Lair is awful. What is not to understand?
fat

abrader

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2007, 08:49:42 PM »
No - a single sites review score is as useless as your opinion (or my opinion)

demi

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2007, 08:51:01 PM »
But you play games while high, your impressions aren't very reliable. I'm sure those reviewers don't.
fat

brawndolicious

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2007, 08:53:43 PM »
Yep, Lair is that ugly.
I mean in tiger woods when you put a take a picture of what you want the face of your character to be.

abrader

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2007, 08:54:18 PM »
But you play games while high, your impressions aren't very reliable. I'm sure those reviewers don't.

Its just a different take....

And IGN/Gamespot reviewers? Are you kidding me? They are the worst teenage/college intern excuse for journalists out there....I bet Gerstman gets pounded in the ass as he plays his Wii.

demi

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2007, 08:54:56 PM »
I hope Ryan is the guy giving it to him. Lucky bastard.
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abrader

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2007, 08:56:50 PM »
I don't see how getting dicked has anything to do with game criticism.

how can he review a game with all of that bouncing?

demi

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2007, 08:57:20 PM »
Let's talk about this Gerstmann fucking scene now.
fat

abrader

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2007, 09:39:03 PM »
All i am sayin - I could have been the PLAY reviewer and you guys could have been IGN, Gamestop etc reviewers....Play's was out there early - he wasnt influenced by anyone. Gamespot had many motives when considering IGN's review a day before. Business driven motives not entirely in line with delivering word about this game - regardlesss of how anyone at Gamespot really felt about it.

Id like to go into details of the times I played LAIR and Two Worlds.

Two Worlds - Got home hyped as hell to play it. I loaded it up in the X360 while I got ready to play....I was making a drink and that awful title screen music started....it was ok, but when the vocals began I could barely contain my feelings of cheese for this game. Then I played it - fukks man on the topic of broken controls, please tell me why I often loop back around with my back exposed to the mob when I am trying to do one of those Symphony of the Night like fights where i slash a few times and then push the dash back button.

I played to the first objective, and thought the dungeons walls were the best gfx I had seen thus far in the game...then I fought the mobs off and reclaimed the checkpoint....so then I play more and it doesnt get better...every time there is a cutscene where my character is talking he looks like a twisted deformed shrunken leg freak with down syndrome. The production values suck, the music sucks, the combat controls wank and are not fun, the magic casting with animations touching on 10 FPS are barely worth it when mostly all of your enemies run at you like berzerkers with a bomb strapped to thair back....the gameplay is as engaging as playing Hunter The Reckoning. This game should have never been released IMO...It is THE WORST thing I have played this or last gen - and rivals many poorly crafted and broken NES experiences on those "mega play" 101 game carts. The game has nothing except some areas that look kinda cool. The enemies looked great to me in screenshots - were they great in the game? No they were like down syndrome kids with woden prostate legs running after me because they think I have some pudding.

LAIR - Was pleased to get it a day early. I played it without reading any impressions (I saw the PLAY score, but didnt read their review bcause it was done too soon and looked like one of those kikey reviews in STUFF or Maxim or something...) Upon loading the game was lovely - great music, great style - LETS go... so on first play I was very underwhelmed by everything except the GFX and the FX, etc...That poor Factor 5 design ethic where they cutscene you more times than Metal Gear Solid really get old in a flight game....Drakengard, Panzer Dragoon, etc does not inturrupt the action 9-10 imes thruout the stage wit hthis crap. You hear people talking but they dont break up the action with "scenes" every 5 minutes. LAIR should have followed suite because this crap almost made me regret the game on the first play. Then I got further along where there are decently paced stretches of gameplay without any commercial breakup and liked the game more....(1st stage feels like 30 seconds of gameplay with 3 minutes of scenes). I also started t like the controls....I am a huge fan of DDR and things like lightgun games that get you out from behind the control pad that I adore just having a different 'motion' even if it isnt tuned the best....on that note, yes i respect the quality ethics in this game as much as something like Time Crisis 2. LAIR has the depth and design ethics of a lightgun shooter - but its that very alternate mechanic that draws you to the game. You wont play these kinds of games as much as control pad games, but I think they are great for the library especially something with the style/music of LAIR. The voiceacting? hahaha fukk no - awful (but better than fukkin elebits)

Anyway, LAIR will be played occasionally, with friends, or as a drinking game with friends.....

Thats just how it played out for me. Fuck someone could have just had their girlfriend tell them to piss off and then be tasked with playing/reviewing a game that night - dont you think that the reviewers personal life can effect the scores too?

I dont even bother, I just read what you guys write - you are all as good as if not better than most reviewers....but I also like to play the games sometimes with no prior knowledge of impressions....just like back in the days before the internet ;) its suprising and shyt.

demi

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2007, 09:42:20 PM »
Anyway, LAIR will be played occasionally as a drinking game with friends.....

"If I ever have the need to drink myself into thinking a game is good, Lair is the route to go."

7.0 - abrader
fat

brawndolicious

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2007, 09:44:11 PM »
you're influenced to not score the game too high so you give it half the score of the only other score?

abrader

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2007, 10:01:48 PM »
Anyway, LAIR will be played occasionally as a drinking game with friends.....

"If I ever have the need to drink myself into thinking a game is good, Lair is the route to go."

7.0 - abrader

Demi - are you like the straight edge gamer? (without the straight of course)

So the gerstman fucking scene - got any pix of last months Calligula party?

demi

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2007, 10:03:40 PM »
Gerstmann isn't that hot. I'm more interested in Ryan.
fat

abrader

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2007, 10:07:58 PM »
i bet yer drunk right now.

The Sceneman

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Re: PA thinks Lair is trash too lol.
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2007, 11:12:34 PM »
Red Dead Revolver was pretty awesome when I was fucked up on BZP, Im not sure if the games actually any good
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