Author Topic: What the hell. Do you have to be a normal person to not like Clockwork Orange? (Read 5880 times)

Himu · « **on:** September 10, 2007, 07:23:39 PM »

So I've been passing around my Clockwork Orange dvd to all my friends and now they all think I'm a sadistic freak. They all say the movie is too weird, didn't bother to finish because of the first half, and all agree that the movie just wasn't for them and question why I like and bought a movie such as that.

I'd love to see their expressions after viewing Videodrone, Crash, and Blue Velvet.

brawndolicious · « **Reply #1 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:28:57 PM »

they would have probably preferred to read the book.

hyp · « **Reply #2 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:31:05 PM »

what do you expect man, it's florida.

clockwork orange.

you should have them watch bully if they think clockwork is disturbing

Himu · « **Reply #3 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:31:16 PM »

I mean, I know the images in Clockwork Orange are pretty crazy stuff, but the movie clearly does them in such a cartoonish way that it's hard to take the movie seriously. Furthermore, the movie is obviously a story told through the eyes of Alex. Alex is clearly insane. Things like harassing homeless old men and raping women for fun would certainly look entertaining to an insane maniac.

What does this say about me if I like a movie like CO? Or does this merely prove how narrow minded most people are?

Himu · « **Reply #4 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:31:59 PM »

Quote from: hyp on September 10, 2007, 07:31:05 PM

what do you expect man, it's florida.

clockwork orange.

you should have them watch bully if they think clockwork is disturbing

Most of the people I hang out with aren't from Florida

hyp · « **Reply #5 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:32:45 PM »

then i think you said it best:

Quote

does this merely prove how narrow minded most people are?

*nods in agreement*

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #6 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:34:48 PM »

Quote from: Himuro on September 10, 2007, 07:31:16 PM

What does this say about me if I like a movie like CO? Or does this merely prove how narrow minded most people are?

I think it's clear that you've become Japanese on the inside. It's kinda scary that you will no longer be stimulated by consensual sex.

Himu · « **Reply #7 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:35:49 PM »

Smooth: When are we going to go out? I'll show how much I love consensual sex.

brawndolicious · « **Reply #8 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:38:46 PM »

A. the book outright tells you he's insane.
B. the ending was taken out in the movie version.

Himu · « **Reply #9 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:39:42 PM »

Jesus Christ Nintendho. I clearly said they didn't bother watching the rest at the halfway point.

Fresh Prince · « **Reply #10 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:40:04 PM »

Quote from: Himuro on September 10, 2007, 07:31:16 PM

What does this say about me if I like a movie like CO? Or does this merely prove how narrow minded most people are?

Black people don't understand art.

Himu · « **Reply #11 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:41:18 PM »

Well, some of them weren't black.

Fresh Prince · « **Reply #12 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:47:50 PM »

Hispanics too.

brawndolicious · « **Reply #13 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:49:12 PM »

Quote from: Himuro on September 10, 2007, 07:39:42 PM

Jesus Christ Nintendho. I clearly said they didn't bother watching the rest at the halfway point.

I know, I'm saying two things that make them misinterpret the movie.

Madrun Badrun · « **Reply #14 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:53:17 PM »

I really like this movie... so your friends are probably in the right.

brawndolicious · « **Reply #15 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:53:55 PM »

they are agreeing with the author of the book.

Himu · « **Reply #16 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:54:20 PM »

The movie doesn't say he's insane but it's quite obvious from his acts alone. If you need to be told Alex is insane, even after viewing the part where he get home and day dreams dreadful thoughts, then I don't know what to say

brawndolicious · « **Reply #17 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:57:17 PM »

it's deeper than that. in the book you read his thought process and can tell more about what he's thinking. seeing a bunch of violence and weird slang isn't exactly mindblowing in a movie. I personally don't get the praise for the book's slang but it's obvious that the book told the story better.

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #18 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:58:01 PM »

B-B-But its kubrick, and has lots of gory sex and sexy violence.

Himu · « **Reply #19 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:00:10 PM »

Kubrick owns. stfu.

bagofeyes · « **Reply #20 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:03:12 PM »

2001 was pretty awesome

brawndolicious · « **Reply #21 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:11:17 PM »

Kubrick sounds like he's a fucking asshole (even if you liked his movies). Burgess said he sucked (even though he laid the blame on the missing ending on his american editors) and one of the CO actors said he was an asshole. FMJ was his only movie I saw and it wasn't anything special.

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #22 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:15:51 PM »

FMJ sucks Platoons gigantic penis.

Himu · « **Reply #23 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:17:26 PM »

FMJ = best Vietnam movie

Himu · « **Reply #24 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:18:31 PM »

Quote from: am nintenho on September 10, 2007, 08:11:17 PM

Kubrick sounds like he's a fucking asshole (even if you liked his movies). Burgess said he sucked (even though he laid the blame on the missing ending on his american editors) and one of the CO actors said he was an asshole. FMJ was his only movie I saw and it wasn't anything special.

And where can I read about this?

I could care less about directors' personalities as long as they bring me good movies. David Lynch is insane, but he makes good movies.

bagofeyes · « **Reply #25 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:19:46 PM »

FMJ was pretty emo gay

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #26 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:20:13 PM »

Quote from: Himuro on September 10, 2007, 08:17:26 PM

FMJ = best Vietnam movie

Half of FMJ isn't even about vietnam. The other half is boring.

Himu · « **Reply #27 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:23:59 PM »

The other half is awesome and you suck.

Me love you long time.

No more boom boom for this baby-san.

TVC15 · « **Reply #28 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:26:59 PM »

I agree with FoC. FMJ sucks, Platoon rox.

TakingBackSunday · « **Reply #29 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:27:10 PM »

Full Metal Jacket is easily one of the worst Kubrick efforts. Very average.

However, Clockwork Orange is totally

Thing is, it's really hard to sell Kubrick movies to the masses, especially younger people.

Himu · « **Reply #30 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:29:09 PM »

FMJ is one of his weaker efforts but nothing average. Tsk tsk.

When I think of one of his worst, I think of Lolita and Eyes Wide Shut.

TVC15 · « **Reply #31 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:30:37 PM »

I'd take Eyes Wide Shut over FMJ. It's a narrow win, though. FMJ is half really really boring, and while I don't think EWS keeps my eyes glued open, it's at least consistent the whole way through.

TakingBackSunday · « **Reply #32 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:31:28 PM »

I don't even remember what the fuck happened in Eyes Wide Shut, even at the time when I saw it, and I think I still liked it better than FMJ.

Himu · « **Reply #33 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:31:44 PM »

I think FMJ is pretty consistent. The second half isn't as good as the first, but it manages to stay interesting due to the dialogue and cool situations (the sniper!).

TakingBackSunday · « **Reply #34 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:32:55 PM »

The sniper portion was about the only part that kept me attentive. Even the private pyle bullshit couldn't do that to me.

Himu · « **Reply #35 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:33:56 PM »

How could you not like Private Pyle portion?

I'd still rather watch FMJ than Barry Lyndon. I love Barry and it's better than FMJ, but it's not anything I could watch at any given moment. I could watch FMJ on most days no matter my mood because I find a lot of it to be hilarious.

TVC15 · « **Reply #36 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:37:16 PM »

Now you're just talking crazy.

Himu · « **Reply #37 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:39:59 PM »

Hell no. Barry Lyndon is quite long, and unlike 2001, the time doesn't fly by when watching it.

For 6 months this year I watched 2001 almost every weekend.

TVC15 · « **Reply #38 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:43:09 PM »

Barry Lyndon is long, but unlike Full Metal Jacket, it's a great movie.

Himu · « **Reply #39 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:44:26 PM »

And I said Barry's better too. But it really isn't anything I can pop in at anytime either.

CajoleJuice · « **Reply #40 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:57:50 PM »

I turned off ACO within the first 20 minutes. $:-\$

And I haven't seen FMJ. Platoon rocks though.

brawndolicious · « **Reply #41 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:59:40 PM »

Quote from: Himuro on September 10, 2007, 08:18:31 PM

And where can I read about this?
I could care less about directors' personalities as long as they bring me good movies. David Lynch is insane, but he makes good movies.

read what?

and this is MEANT as a book. it could have been a lot better than it was as a movie though.

bluemax · « **Reply #42 on:** September 10, 2007, 11:21:49 PM »

I remember when I first watched ACO with a friend of mine. During the opening scene I felt kind of appalled and disgusted and he was laughing uproariously.

We paused it for a bit after that scene and discussed it. My argument at the time was that that's kind of the point of the movie. Some people will find it appalling and others will find it hilarious. Its sort of a barometer of your own personal depravity.

I think its a good movie and I made it through the whole thing without getting sick or whatever.

Quote from: am nintenho on September 10, 2007, 07:38:46 PM

A. the book outright tells you he's insane.
B. the ending was taken out in the movie version.

Which version of the book did you read? The original or the American? They end in different places.

We also read this book in my Arts and Letters class, but it was more for an analysis of dystopian future settings.

brawndolicious · « **Reply #43 on:** September 11, 2007, 12:24:34 AM »

Quote from: bluemax on September 10, 2007, 11:21:49 PM

Which version of the book did you read? The original or the American? They end in different places.
We also read this book in my Arts and Letters class, but it was more for an analysis of dystopian future settings.

the re-released american version that had the missing chapter. in the beginning of it, burgess for about two pages says how the american editors fucked his book up and how the movie was based on that version.

abrader · « **Reply #44 on:** September 11, 2007, 12:37:03 AM »

Himmy - im sorry you know repressive people who would judge your personality or disposition because of media you may like to vide. I personally am bored of Clockwork ORange (my generation played it out big time), but I would be annoyed at some cunt thinking its outlandishly sadistic and a representation that im an anal date rapist/murdurer...

Now a days its the music I like - I really just never share anything about my personal preferences around professional peers....Just because I like Coil doesnt mean im an a egyptian rat fukker.

Ichirou · « **Reply #45 on:** September 11, 2007, 01:03:57 AM »

Quote from: abrader on September 11, 2007, 12:37:03 AM

Himmy - im sorry you know repressive people who would judge your personality or disposition because of media you may like to vide. I personally am bored of Clockwork ORange (my generation played it out big time), but I would be annoyed at some cunt thinking its outlandishly sadistic and a representation that im an anal date rapist/murdurer...

You go on...anal dates?

Stocky · « **Reply #46 on:** September 11, 2007, 07:32:04 AM »

lol, did I just see someone put Platoon in a sentence that could actually make the movie look good?

Bloodwake · « **Reply #47 on:** September 11, 2007, 10:15:05 AM »

Clockwork Orange is fucking great.

Himu · « **Reply #48 on:** September 11, 2007, 10:49:05 AM »

Quote from: am nintenho on September 10, 2007, 08:59:40 PM

Quote from: Himuro on September 10, 2007, 08:18:31 PM
And where can I read about this?
I could care less about directors' personalities as long as they bring me good movies. David Lynch is insane, but he makes good movies.
read what?

read about kubrick being a jackhole

hyp · « **Reply #49 on:** September 11, 2007, 01:06:59 PM »

barry lyndon is mad slept on. it doesn't even feel that long because it's so engaging. imo, kubrick's best film next to 2001.

fmj is fucking great you assholes. eyes wide shut is a masterpiece as well.

and yes, kubrick was a pain in the ass director, but that's what made his films so great --- he had a shit ton of control and was so anal about everything. the definition of auteur.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #50 on:** September 11, 2007, 04:46:56 PM »

Quote from: Himuro on September 10, 2007, 07:23:39 PM

So I've been passing around my Clockwork Orange dvd to all my friends and now they all think I'm a sadistic freak. They all say the movie is too weird, didn't bother to finish because of the first half, and all agree that the movie just wasn't for them and question why I like and bought a movie such as that.

I'd love to see their expressions after viewing Videodrone, Crash, and Blue Velvet.

Clockwork Orange is not an easy movie for the average person to digest. It's easy to watch it and dismiss much of the first half as too violent, too sadistic, and simply too much; seems like some chicks would especially be turned off by some scenes.

I thought the film was brilliant. The violence is not to be taken solely on surface value or you won't get the theme of it.

Mr. Gundam · « **Reply #51 on:** September 11, 2007, 04:49:15 PM »

Himuro, here's a lesson for college life.

Don't be the guy who pushes his "weird ass" movies on everyone else. Don't judge others for not liking said movies you push on everyone else.

You really don't want to be that guy. I almost became that guy, until my roommate knocked some sense into me.

sonarrat · « **Reply #52 on:** September 11, 2007, 04:50:56 PM »

Quote from: Himuro on September 10, 2007, 07:31:59 PM

Quote from: hyp on September 10, 2007, 07:31:05 PM
what do you expect man, it's florida.

clockwork orange.

you should have them watch bully if they think clockwork is disturbing

Most of the people I hang out with aren't from Florida

Nobody is from Florida. Florida is where the detritus of humanity collects en masse.

TVC15 · « **Reply #53 on:** September 11, 2007, 05:00:31 PM »

Quote from: Angry Rhymenocerous on September 11, 2007, 07:32:04 AM

lol, did I just see someone put Platoon in a sentence that could actually make the movie look good?

It's more than good. It's the best Vietnam movie that's been made. Deservedly won best picture.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #54 on:** September 11, 2007, 05:02:57 PM »

Quote from: TVC 15 on September 11, 2007, 05:00:31 PM

Quote from: Angry Rhymenocerous on September 11, 2007, 07:32:04 AM
lol, did I just see someone put Platoon in a sentence that could actually make the movie look good?

It's more than good. It's the best Vietnam movie that's been made. Deservedly won best picture.

Apocalypse Now is my favorite Vietnam film, although I've heard some people say it's not a Vietnam film. I really like Platoon also

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #55 on:** September 11, 2007, 05:20:36 PM »

Apocalypse Now is great, but not really about vietnam.

brawndolicious · « **Reply #56 on:** September 11, 2007, 07:58:05 PM »

oh and just out of curiosity, what's the point of fmj? that boot camp's hard? that being pinned down by a sniper in vietnam is hard? that paying a vietnamese whore $5 is hard?

Quote from: Himuro on September 11, 2007, 10:49:05 AM

read about kubrick being a jackhole

I saw it on clockwork orange's wikipedia.

hyp · « **Reply #57 on:** September 11, 2007, 08:13:49 PM »

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on September 11, 2007, 05:02:57 PM

Apocalypse Now is my favorite Vietnam film, although I've heard some people say it's not a Vietnam film. I really like Platoon also

did you watch redux (directors cut)? even better than the original, just the way copolla wanted it (despite the brando drama at the time).

abrader · « **Reply #58 on:** September 11, 2007, 09:25:31 PM »

Quote from: Ichirou on September 11, 2007, 01:03:57 AM

Quote from: abrader on September 11, 2007, 12:37:03 AM
Himmy - im sorry you know repressive people who would judge your personality or disposition because of media you may like to vide. I personally am bored of Clockwork ORange (my generation played it out big time), but I would be annoyed at some cunt thinking its outlandishly sadistic and a representation that im an anal date rapist/murdurer...

You go on...anal dates?

No - anal is added on to 'date rapist' to make it more severe...

Kind of like you can have a "mother fucker"

and then you can have a "cock swallowing shit sculpting goat fucking mother fucker"

Get it? anal was added on to supersize date rapist.

Himu · « **Reply #59 on:** September 12, 2007, 11:41:03 AM »

Quote from: am nintenho on September 11, 2007, 07:58:05 PM

oh and just out of curiosity, what's the point of fmj? that boot camp's hard? that being pinned down by a sniper in vietnam is hard? that paying a vietnamese whore $5 is hard?

That becoming a soldier makes you lose your identity. It's about dehumanization. The entire movie they praise killing and "being born again hard" but when Joker finally makes his "war face" it shows that he has regressed, not evolved as a better human being. This is why at the end of the movie they are singing the Mickey Mouse Club anthem - a children's song.

Joker is the only character in the entire movie who retains a sense of self and has and identity. He discounts everything in a jokingly manner. "It's just business" But when he finally makes that kill, he still continues to try to stay himself and not become another pawn to CORPS. "I am in a world of shit, yes, but I am alive."

Quote

In my opinion, Joker at the end of Full Metal Jacket has totally succumbed to the destructive power of the "ritual" of Parris Island. Pyle, his individuality completely destroyed, shoots himself; Joker, his individuality destroyed, does not shoot himself, but he is effectively dead anyway. His ironic "rebirth" and growth takes on grotesque form ("born again hard") as he is indeed reborn into a new world ("Who's the leader of the club that's made for you and me?") which is marked not by growth, but by child-like and primitive regression ("M-I-C, K-E-Y, M-O-U-S-E.")

Quote

A philosopher colleague of thinks that the ending of Full Metal Jacket displays a more advanced state of mind than Clockwork, as if Kubrick has evolved to yet another level. He says that in Clockwork, Kubrick ends the film on a negative note, viewing mankind as stuck in his nihilistic, misanthropic nature; not only impermeable to a totalitarian government, but unable to progress past it. But in Full Metal Jacket, the ending shows Joker as a self-motivated autocrat, still acting of his free will and fighting against the forces trying to de-individualize him. Alex "was cured, all right," but even if the government couldn't "cure him" (i.e. imprint false morals), he never cured himself.

But Joker has cured himself -- he not only suffered through a Ludovico treatment of his own (boot camp, the Marine mentality), but he overcame it to find a reason to live, one that was based on self-actualization (spurred by the murder of the sniper and the death of Cowboy), and the theory that it IS better to be alive (the dead know only one thing:...), and that "I am alive, but I am not afraid." By overcoming his fear, he has accepted the utter meaninglessness of the world, but created his own reasons through combat and violence.

I don't know if I agree with this 'point of view', primarily because I think Joker has succumbed to the same primal, violent instincts Alex has, but also because I think Alex is acting on free will and a fighting stance against meaninglessness, only in his own, "amoral" way. But it made me think, and I wonder what others would say, considering this view -- in the overall context of Kubrick's body of work as a Nietzschean progression to the Overman (from say, 2001 to Full Metal Jacket).

FMJ isn't exactly a good movie to judge based on one viewing imo. It gets better after multiple viewings.

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Author Topic: What the hell. Do you have to be a normal person to not like Clockwork Orange? (Read 5880 times)