How do you get into the gaming industry?

[The Sceneman]

I mean actually work for a games company, none of this website journalism shit. What sort of skills/qualifications/degrees are necessary? My eventual goal is to work for a games company, and Im trying to work out my study plan to get the essential skills. A tech institute nearby offers a 'Game Design' course but it sounds a bit ropey...

Any tips/stories/advice would be really appreciated

[Van Cruncheon]

portfolio, portfolio, portfolio -- for both devs and artists. also, a good school with a good placement program helps. otherwise, it's TEST GHETTO TIME!

[Howard Alan Treesong]

suck a mean dick
make friends with a VD doctor
buy rubbers in bulk
learn to suppress your gag reflex
find a well lit street corner
grow a handlebar mustache
practice strutting always

[Smooth Groove]

What do you want to do though?  There're so many different things that you can do for a game company.  

[demi]

Do you feel you have any sort of skill at art or programming? You are probably better off being a QA grunt. You really have to be dedicated to this if you want it.

[Van Cruncheon]

suck a mean dick
make friends with a VD doctor
buy rubbers in bulk
learn to suppress your gag reflex
find a well lit street corner
grow a handlebar mustache
practice strutting always

also: accept that your asshole is no longer your own

[demi]

I'll refer you to various companies when you get some years experience under your belt. It's what I do.

[Smooth Groove]

How much does your company charge, Demi?  I've got some friends who are not happy about being stuck at tech support even though they've graduated from good colleges. 

[demi]

You don't pay to use our service. We look at your portfolio/resume and decide if you're good to submit.

[The Sceneman]

thats the thing Smooth, Im not 100% set on a position either... even working in sales/marketing/publicity would be sweet. Ideally I'd like to design, but do you need to dev first and work your way up the food chain? Or is a smokin' design portfolio enough?

As for my current skills, well art I can sorta do to a degree, and I dont know a thing about programming.. thats why I need to find the right schooling. I do have a good aptitude for computer programmes and pick up technical applications extremely quickly so I do think I'd have what it takes.

[Smooth Groove]

Gotcha ,so you get paid by the gaming companies then.  Should they just email you if they're interested?  They want to try something else but they're also a bit apprehensive about leaving behind steady income.  

thats the thing Smooth, Im not 100% set on a position either... even working in sales/marketing/publicity would be sweet. Ideally I'd like to design, but do you need to dev first and work your way up the food chain? Or is a smokin' design portfolio enough?

As for my current skills, well art I can sorta do to a degree, and I dont know a thing about programming.. thats why I need to find the right schooling. I do have a good aptitude for computer programmes and pick up technical applications extremely quickly so I do think I'd have what it takes.

I have a friend that does PR for Blizzard.   I'm pretty sure that he didn't get a marketing degree.  He just impressed them by showing how much he knows and loves games.  He had to work his way up from the bottom, of course. 

[demi]

You could probably land a Level Designer job, but if you want to do actual Game Design, you're gonna need some experience. Scratch that, you're gonna need experience regardless. Get to learning how to mod Source, or Unreal.

[Van Cruncheon]

1. there is no such position as "game designer" as you think of it
2. you will never have a chance to make the stupid game ideas in your head
3. assuming you do succeed, please try and make your ds nicktoons title a decent 2d platformer instead of a mini-game collection

[Shuri]

just work in marketing. THey have the easy life. Let all the coders and shit handle the crappy work while you get to organise PR parties, fly people across the world, and hang out with peeps.

I worked in marketing dept for a while, and it the life

[demi]

Gotcha ,so you get paid by the gaming companies then.  Should they just email you if they're interested?  They want to try something else but they're also a bit apprehensive about leaving behind steady income.  

Yeah, just email one of us and we'll forward it to the right person, depending if it's even worth looking at. If it's not, we just reply with some big email saying you suck and where you can find out how not to suck.

[Van Cruncheon]

seriously, if you want to make the games you want, you have a long, difficult, and largely self-funded 5-10 years of garage development ahead of you. get a few well-received indy games under your belt, and start pitching to publishers. conversely, move to the eastern bloc and get a sign that says "will code opengl tools for vodka." make sure you reverse the Rs to look authentic.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

1. there is no such position as "game designer" as you think of it
2. you will never have a chance to make the stupid game ideas in your head
3. assuming you do succeed, please try and make your ds nicktoons title a decent 2d platformer instead of a mini-game collection

the realness of your talk burns my eyes like the pure light of god's truth

[Smooth Groove]

The gaming industry sounds as cutthroat as the music or movies industry.  I don't think I would go into games if I were a programmer. 

[ferricide]

why think when i can just give you a URL that helps to indirectly pay my bills?

http://gamecareerguide.com/

seriously, i imagine there is some good stuff on there. savvy people are involved.

[demi]

The gaming industry sounds as cutthroat as the music or movies industry.  I don't think I would go into games if I were a programmer. 

Programmers are HOT HOT HOT right now, at least for us.

We also use GameCareerGuide a lot, Ferricide. Very useful.

[Smooth Groove]

The gaming industry sounds as cutthroat as the music or movies industry.  I don't think I would go into games if I were a programmer. 

Programmers are HOT HOT HOT right now, at least for us.

We also use GameCareerGuide a lot, Ferricide. Very useful.

Unless you're a big name programmer, it seems pretty hard to work for the company that you want.  My friend has been working for a few years and she still haven't been able to get into a major RPG company.  She says that her company is not too bad though (Star Wars Battlefront developer). 

As much as I love gaming, I'm glad that I chose another industry.  Studying is tough but at least I don't have to worry about getting a job when I graduate. 

[demi]

You're never going to work at the company you want right off the bat, unless you know people. Take what you get. Program those 10 movie licensed games if you have to.

[Smooth Groove]

You're never going to work at the company you want right off the bat, unless you know people. Take what you get. Program those 10 movie licensed games if you have to.

That's why most games are crap.  You can't make a good game if you don't even enjoy making it. 

[demi]

Spider-Man 3 Wii was done by majority of people still in college, lol.

The industry is pretty volatile, there's not much job security. You could lose your job the next day due to some cuts.

When Fantastic Four Silver Surfer was finished (in about 18 months), the entire team was cut right there.

[Ichirou]

Didn't Spider-Man 3 Wii suck pretty hard?

I remember the Treyarch DC one was really good.

[brawndolicious]

yeah the wii one was supposed to be pretty average.  I heard the DS one was the good one.

[Fragamemnon]

As much as I love gaming, I'm glad that I chose another industry.  Studying is tough but at least I don't have to worry about getting a job when I graduate. 

I never regret selling out and doing business software development for a gargantuan company. Game work, which I would likely be extremely good at with enough experience, is just too volatile. I like my normal, boring everyday life.

[MrAngryFace]

Working in the gaming 'journalism' biz only taught me to hate it. I hate the punks that dominate it, and I hate how it taught me to be totally overcritical about games.

[Smooth Groove]

Working in the gaming 'journalism' biz only taught me to hate it. I hate the punks that dominate it, and I hate how it taught me to be totally overcritical about games.

why come you still like so many crap games?

[bluemax]

The gaming industry sounds as cutthroat as the music or movies industry.  I don't think I would go into games if I were a programmer. 

Programmers are HOT HOT HOT right now, at least for us.

We also use GameCareerGuide a lot, Ferricide. Very useful.

Experience programmers maybe. No one wants a fresh out of college programmer (at least no one at the 10 or so companies I've checked out).

The gaming industry sounds as cutthroat as the music or movies industry.  I don't think I would go into games if I were a programmer. 

Programmers are HOT HOT HOT right now, at least for us.

We also use GameCareerGuide a lot, Ferricide. Very useful.

Unless you're a big name programmer, it seems pretty hard to work for the company that you want.  My friend has been working for a few years and she still haven't been able to get into a major RPG company.  She says that her company is not too bad though (Star Wars Battlefront developer). 

As much as I love gaming, I'm glad that I chose another industry.  Studying is tough but at least I don't have to worry about getting a job when I graduate. 

Pandemic? I want to work there and I've talked with them a bunch of times but when I sent a resume for an internship they never got back to me. They're coming back to my school in November so maybe now that I'm looking for full time it'll help.

[Fragamemnon]

Working in the gaming 'journalism' biz only taught me to hate it. I hate the punks that dominate it, and I hate how it taught me to be totally overcritical about games.

why come you still like so many crap games?

he's since taught himself to enjoy things even if they don't meet certain critical standards, simply because he finds them enjoyable.

[hyp]

starting off in QA isn't so bad... if you're young.  that's how i got my foot in the door.

[hyp]

just work in marketing. THey have the easy life. Let all the coders and shit handle the crappy work while you get to organise PR parties, fly people across the world, and hang out with peeps.

I worked in marketing dept for a while, and it the life

i agree, i work in marketing and it's a breeze in the park.  8 hour days, long lunches, and pretty much everyone gets along with you. 

[bluemax]

If you want to be a "designer" I suggest you start designing games, like right now. Make level mods, learn 2d game making shit, learn flash/action script, etc etc. You still won't get a job as a "designer" but you'll at least get your resume looked at for a few seconds.

After that you can get a job in QA and hope that you show some kind of aptitude for game design, odds are you'll quit before you ever get anyone's attention.

You could also try the Fullsail/Digipen path or come to USC and major in Interactive Media. I have a roommate in the under grad program and he said the highly touted MFA in Game Design program isn't really getting too many people jobs at this point. I think the only notable accomplishment to come from it was FLOW.

[T234]

If you want to be a "designer" I suggest you start designing games, like right now. Make level mods, learn 2d game making shit, learn flash/action script, etc etc. You still won't get a job as a "designer" but you'll at least get your resume looked at for a few seconds.

After that you can get a job in QA and hope that you show some kind of aptitude for game design, odds are you'll quit before you ever get anyone's attention.

You could also try the Fullsail/Digipen path or come to USC and major in Interactive Media. I have a roommate in the under grad program and he said the highly touted MFA in Game Design program isn't really getting too many people jobs at this point. I think the only notable accomplishment to come from it was FLOW.

Worst USC product since Matt Leinart (last nights ballgame).

ON-Topic, Bluemax's first paragraph is the path I'm doing. I can't do much yet but learn more and more by the day.

[demi]

Experience programmers maybe. No one wants a fresh out of college programmer (at least no one at the 10 or so companies I've checked out).

Go mobile.

[bluemax]

Experience programmers maybe. No one wants a fresh out of college programmer (at least no one at the 10 or so companies I've checked out).

Go mobile.

I looked at mobile, they all want you to know J2ME, which I don't know and don't have the time to learn independently this semester. If I had another semester left I'd take the mobile games programming class in the spring, but I don't. My primary programming experience is C++, so meh.

I found a couple of positions on Gamasutra today that were either explicitly Junior programmer positions or jobs that I am qualified with (tools programming mostly). So who knows. In one class I'm taking right now they all but promise you will get a job at the end, I simply would prefer to have something lined up before December etc. My friend who took it in the spring said he got 3 offers at the end despite already having a job lined up.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

if you want to do production, go QA
if you want to design, start making mods NOW and go QA. if you aren't already making mods NOW then you don't really want to do design.
if you want to program, focus on graphics and linear algebra. mods might not be a bad way to go. LUA, XML, and Python are all hot.
if you want to do art, you will live or die by your portfolio. nothing else matters.
if you want to do sound, uh, good luck? practice using your pirated pro-tools plug-ins I guess--sound work is mostly balancing and FX.
if you want to do marketing, suck a mean cock

another secret of the game industry: don't worry about applying to Junior or Associate positions to start out. it's just a title (and a pay grade). you'll get to do the same work as everyone else. few industries are as egalitarian as games, and if you've got the chops, you'll get the promotions. most Senior people I know got there in about 4-5 years of experience; most Leads, in 7-10. That's really no time at all by the standards of most industries.

[hyp]

if you want to program, focus on graphics and linear algebra. mods might not be a bad way to go. LUA, XML, and Python are all hot.

curse linear algebra and all it's worth!!!  i took that class in college.  talk about a huge fucking headache.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

if you want to program, focus on graphics and linear algebra. mods might not be a bad way to go. LUA, XML, and Python are all hot.

curse linear algebra and all it's worth!!!  i took that class in college.  talk about a huge fucking headache.

well, don't become a games programmer then

maybe you could get a job as a SCRIPTER and set TRIGGERS



I loved Linear Algebra btw. I never understood Calculus, but matrix transformations were pretty magically self-explanatory for some reason.

[hyp]

if you want to program, focus on graphics and linear algebra. mods might not be a bad way to go. LUA, XML, and Python are all hot.

curse linear algebra and all it's worth!!!  i took that class in college.  talk about a huge fucking headache.

well, don't become a games programmer then

maybe you could get a job as a SCRIPTER and set TRIGGERS



I loved Linear Algebra btw. I never understood Calculus, but matrix transformations were pretty magically self-explanatory for some reason.

exactly.  that's why i changed my major to business management/marketing.  didn't have to suck a mean cock to get a marketing job either.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I had to change my major from CS to English because I couldn't handle the multivariable calculus physics. Which is a requirement for the CS major, for some reason.

[Van Cruncheon]

i was actually really good at math, especially differential eq and linear algebra. fourier series kinda bugged me a bit, though. however, i hated doing it. math is for creeps. hence, i got an english degree to supplement my cs degree. i would rather be stuck in classes from 9 to 6 as long as half of them are liberal arts classes, then only have 3 classes and lab which are all full of smelly, tedious engineers.

my cs degree netted me a math minor, somehow. the fuck! it's like a BADGE OF SHAME.

[Van Cruncheon]

also, why are engineers the most trite and uninteresting people on a college campus. if they have any remarkable qualities, it usually has to do with either their skill at counterstrike or their seemingly limitless hentai collections.

[bluemax]

also, why are engineers the most trite and uninteresting people on a college campus. if they have any remarkable qualities, it usually has to do with either their skill at counterstrike or their seemingly limitless hentai collections.

Depends upon your school and the engineers or maybe times are just changing. I've met plenty of engineers who have normal people interests, like movies, tv, drinking beer, sports etc etc. There are still a few weird ones but it seems like the majority of the engineers I meet these days don't fit in the age old stereotypes.

I actually really liked multivariable calc, it wasn't that bad once I got the hang of it. The only part of linear algebra/diff eq I liked was the Matrix stuff because it was easy, made sense and I could apply it to things I knew about. All that sub space shit was just too nonsensical for me. My grade wasn't the hottest in that class but I feel like I understand 3D math sufficiently.

[Van Cruncheon]

I've met plenty of engineers who have normal people interests, like movies, tv, drinking beer, sports etc etc.

that's still trite and uninteresting!

[T234]

NERD FIIIIIIIIGHTT

[bluemax]

I've met plenty of engineers who have normal people interests, like movies, tv, drinking beer, sports etc etc.

that's still trite and uninteresting!

Well what do you consider interesting?

[tiesto]

Engineer girls are interesting, in a "they are crazy and weird as hell" way.

[Madrun Badrun]

Game design is what I want to get into, going though the CS route and it's threads like these that make me question doing that. 

[Fragamemnon]

Game design is what I want to get into, going though the CS route and it's threads like these that make me question doing that. 

I'm not in the game industry, as I stated before, but I think that the title of "game designer" finds you and not the other way around based off the REAL TALK people who have mentioned it.

[demi]

You also have to have a good grasp of the English language. Those GDDs aren't gonna type themselves.

[Madrun Badrun]

Game design is what I want to get into, going though the CS route and it's threads like these that make me question doing that. 

I'm not in the game industry, as I stated before, but I think that the title of "game designer" finds you and not the other way around based off the REAL TALK people who have mentioned it.

Yes thats why I keep on having to tell of my family on why I need to go to uni instead of taking a crappy community collage "game design" course.  I'm hoping software engineering will get me to a place where my voice can get heard and then by that time I can get the political muster to switch into design. 

You also have to have a good grasp of the English language. Those GDDs aren't gonna type themselves.

Time to get back to the hooked on phonics then. 

[bluemax]

Engineer girls are interesting, in a "they are crazy and weird as hell" way.

So true. This is why I am not dating an engineer.

Game design is what I want to get into, going though the CS route and it's threads like these that make me question doing that. 

Its almost universally agreed the Computer Science is not the route to go if you want to be a designer. If you want to be a programmer its fine but not design.

Also this thread spurred me to do some job searching. I applied for 7 more jobs today including several actual "junior" programmer positions. I even applied to the company I interned at finally.

[demi]

bluemax, I could help you out and talk to some of the people we work with and see what they can do about junior positions. Let me know.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Yes thats why I keep on having to tell of my family on why I need to go to uni instead of taking a crappy community collage "game design" course.  I'm hoping software engineering will get me to a place where my voice can get heard and then by that time I can get the political muster to switch into design. 

This makes me very unpopular with parents, but.

Uni is good but not necessary for game design. Schooling, in general, is overrated. It doesn't matter WHAT your degree is--it is not going to get you a game design position. It might get your resume noticed for a moment longer, but it's never going to get you a job.

CC "game design" courses are overrated. If you want game specific schooling, Digipen and Guildhall are the only two programs I'd recommend. Fullsail is okay, but a bit vocational.

CS is not a good path into game design. It's a good path into game programming.

If you want to be a game designer, I'd almost recommend you be a liberal arts major. That, and DESIGN ALREADY. WHY ARE YOU NOT MODDING SOURCE RIGHT NOW.

[Madrun Badrun]

I'm planning a game on vb.net right now, that hopefully I can scale up and turn into an xna game but first I need to learn c#.

I don't mod because all my pc's suck to run anything.   :'(

I still want to do uni as it will give me back ups in case game design doesn't work out or if along the way I loose interest in games. 

[Howard Alan Treesong]

oh, I would certainly recommend university, absolutely

I just want to make it clear that it's no silver bullet--quite the opposite. your uni experience and your game industry experience will be tangentially related at best

[Madrun Badrun]

Ya i realized that, I figure I'll be in the game industry programing for a decade at least before before I have the where-with-all and the connections to start moving into design.  It's going to be a long road  :'(

[Howard Alan Treesong]

most people I know are in the "industry" for several years on the fringes--marketing, QA, journalism, or just plain-old self-taught modding experience--before they move over to development proper.