I'm not feelin' Suikoden II so far...

[Mondain]

Wasn't this supposed to be one of the best console RPGs of all time? I don't find it all that great after about 15 hours in.

Something feels oddly out of place, can't really tell what. I honestly liked the original one more, it felt like a straightforward, epic political adventure in the vein of say, Ivanhoe. Suikoden II introduces too many elements from countless other generic anime RPGs, like corny humor. I especially hate Nanami's interventions. And the locations that you visit aren't that varied, it feels like many similar villages, and not really like an escape to a myriad of different worlds.

Overall Suikoden V (which I've completed) feels like it has a really better plot, better locations and better twists. The main thing I disliked about the fifth Suikoden was that it was ridiculously easy, even for a game of that series. Although the Soul Eater ruin's powers also made most of the original Suikoden far too easy.

It's still a very good title, make no mistake. Music is pretty good. The game has its fantastic moments, like

spoiler (click to show/hide)

getting saved from death by hanging by Flik and Viktor

[close]

, and

spoiler (click to show/hide)

the humans, winged people and kobolds forming an alliance to repel the Highland army

[close]

. The constant cameos from the original Suikoden are also pretty cool, they're probably the real reason as to why the game is so liked. And of course, any scene where Luca Blight is involved. Damn, what a meanie. Though even a fantastic villain doesn't really succeed at making the game feel more tragic when Luca Blight dialogue is always followed by very corny dialogue and situations featuring the other characters right after. Most of the humor falls flat, save for the lines that involve Viktor.

The game did seem to pick up after you

spoiler (click to show/hide)

acquire Shu the strategist

[close]

.

I'll definitely finish it, but would rank it below Suikoden 1 and 5 as far as greatness goes. Still got the third one to play after that.

[demi]

You want to play "extremely overhyped shitfest of RPG" look no further than Valkyrie Profile (PSX)

[demi]

FFXII > Valkyrie Profile

[TVC15]

I might agree. . .VP and Suikoden 2 are similar levels of overrated.

Jotaro, I think Suikoden II was a good RPG for its time, and it's a good improvement over the first Suikoden, but I never understood how it's managed to attain classic status either.

[demi]

People pay just as much for both titles too (VP and Suiko2)

[Mondain]

As previously said, it most probably attained the status of classic because it did cameos very well for a sequel.

And yeah, most games that go through a big rarity which makes their price rise to insane amounts end up being pretty overrated, or rated too highly when they don't age well. Valkyrie Profile, Suikoden II, Panzer Dragoon Saga...

Radiant Silvergun does deliver, though.

[TVC15]

I could kind of see why VP has its reputation.  It was a very different game in a time dominated by clunky-looking 3d traditional RPGs.  VP was none of those things and I am sure it won the opinions of jaded RPG fans for bringing something new to the table.  I just think it's a kinda bad game.

[MCD]

What made Suikoden 2 great for me are the characters and as you mentioned, Suiko1 cameos.

without these two factors, i don't think i would have liked it a lot.

[MrAngryFace]

I think the best that can be said for Suikoden II is that its the best Suikoden, with Suikoden V and Tactics close behind. I, III, IV were buh. I think what makes Suikoden II overrated is that it was so hard to find, and it WAS a pleasant alternative to Final Fantasy. So all you have is a lot of people sitting around going, Wow Suikoden II isnt half bad and a larger bunch going REALLY?! MAN I WISH I COULD PLAY IT.

Years downt he road its rarity created a cult following of people who never played it. It is in fact a very capable rpg, that in retrospect, like almost every other game over 5 years old, cannot stand up to the criticisms of gamers who have spent the last 5+ years experiencing evolutions of the genre.

I've never been a fan of lashing at games past a certain age. I mean sure, if I hated a game back then ill be sure to lamblast it in the now, but I liked Suikoden II easily as much as I liked Luminous Arc. It did a lot of things well and some things poorly, which is what MOST GAMES end up accomplishing.

[Van Cruncheon]

It did a lot of things well and some things poorly, which is what MOST GAMES end up accomplishing.

this bears repeating over and over

in gaf's world, there are two types of games: there are AMAZING INVIOLABLE EXPERIENCES CREATED BY MIYAMOTO-SAMA, KOJIMA-SEMPAI, OR SQUARE AND WE'LL HEAR NO WRONG -or- there is LOLCRAP

[Error2k4]

vp1 a bad game? you guys break my heart :'(

[MrAngryFace]

VP1 isnt a bad game, VP2 is a better game muhahahah im a VP2 whore sorry

[Van Cruncheon]

i like vp1 a lot, but it has some seriously busted pacing. as tvc said, some psone games we loved purely because they did something that was less mundane and cliched as far as rpg mechanics go, but time has not been kind to them. see: fft, vp -- and for some freaks, so2

[Error2k4]

vp2 owns.

i admit vp2 has some stuff that i really like, that vp1 doesnt have but i love both games anyway.

[MrAngryFace]

I suck at 1, I rock at 2, I like rocking, which is why I like VP2 more

[Smooth Groove]

PSX1 RPGS look so crappy nowadays on even a small TV.  I think I can only tolerate their graphics if I were playing them on a hacked PSP.  Someone posted some Vagrant Story screenshots today and they were hideous. Back then, my cousin used to tell me about how gorgeous its graphics were.  Old 2D RPGS>Old 3D RPGS 

[Mondain]

if you use a PS3 along with the upscaling function and the "smooth graphics" option (something to the effect) of the XMB menu, PS1 stuff looks much, much better even on a 1080p HDTV, I was very surprised at the quality

[drohne]

this bears repeating over and over

in gaf's world, there are two types of games: there are AMAZING INVIOLABLE EXPERIENCES CREATED BY MIYAMOTO-SAMA, KOJIMA-SEMPAI, OR SQUARE AND WE'LL HEAR NO WRONG -or- there is LOLCRAP

seriously. sometimes i read gaf absentmindedly and get SORT OF ANGRY about the worship of certain overcooked media darlings -- and the concomitant dismissal of dozens of fun games. but then i recall that i'm reading gaf, that it's all just some stunted expression of console politics, and that none of it has got anything to do with videogames as such

[Mondain]

It actually always felt like the reverse to me. There are dozens of "clans" of agenda-driven dorks who defend so-so games and herald them as underrated masterpieces because of some unique trait of theirs, but when you play them you end up being extremely disappointed, wondering what the fuss was all about. Like say, Beyond Good & Evil, Psychonauts, and a whole lot of others.

[MrAngryFace]

Sometimes Mondain, people like games

[drohne]

yeah, i prefer a personal enthusiasm for games that may have all sorts of problems -- even a blind personal enthusiasm -- to the cult of big names and big review scores

and psychonauts rox

emphasis on personal enthusisasm, however -- there are games that groups of people love in some forced, generalized way. eternal darkness, say

[Van Cruncheon]

Sometimes Mondain, people like games

SHOKKU

and when the agenda is "pimp a game i like" it hardly seems like an agenda at all! especially when compared against fanboy spin for the mega-franchises and platform exclusives, about which no slight may be tendered without pages of shrill defense

[Van Cruncheon]

eternal darkness is an IMPORTANT GAME -- it was a "mature" release for the much-disparaged purple lunchbox, and its development was surrounded by bombast in every venue from good ol' denis. had ed has been released for the ps2 by an ex-sony dev -- like, say, the eminently forgettable but more ambitious siren -- it would have disappeared from the collective gaf conscious. wait, wasn't there a sequel to siren? lol.

[Mondain]

the thing is that, it's really not always personal enthusiasm, usually these games are promoted out of compassion (or something to the effect) when an odd title garners mediocre review scores or sales

like Psychonauts, which is defended so much by GAF because it's from the guy who made many LucasArts SCUMM classics and then decided to launch a studio for quirky games

Beyond Good & Evil because it was a Zelda clone with unusual themes that then bombed at retail

[MrAngryFace]

I think you have a hate on for fringe titles

[Van Cruncheon]

jotaro is a classic lowbrow contrarian on these here internets

he needs a little less insecurity and a little more education to pokevolve into his final form, futamisaur

[MrAngryFace]

Sounds like he would like Juiced 2. Its still got that mass market appeal and wasn't developed by one of those developers with HOPES AND DREAMS

[Smooth Groove]

if you use a PS3 along with the upscaling function and the "smooth graphics" option (something to the effect) of the XMB menu, PS1 stuff looks much, much better even on a 1080p HDTV, I was very surprised at the quality

Huh?  The PS3 can't magically upgrade extremely low poly characters and 2mbs of total textures.

this bears repeating over and over

in gaf's world, there are two types of games: there are AMAZING INVIOLABLE EXPERIENCES CREATED BY MIYAMOTO-SAMA, KOJIMA-SEMPAI, OR SQUARE AND WE'LL HEAR NO WRONG -or- there is LOLCRAP

seriously. sometimes i read gaf absentmindedly and get SORT OF ANGRY about the worship of certain overcooked media darlings -- and the concomitant dismissal of dozens of fun games. but then i recall that i'm reading gaf, that it's all just some stunted expression of console politics, and that none of it has got anything to do with videogames as such

Yup, only at GAF would Resistance be considered by 1/2 the people to be better than Halo 3.  Halo 3 had its flaws but still it's kinda ridiculous to put Resistance in the same class. 

[MCD]

All the PS3 does is add some sort of blur filter.

it's pretty good for PS1 games, not so much for PS2.

[Van Cruncheon]

Sounds like he would like Juiced 2. Its still got that mass market appeal and wasn't developed by one of those developers with HOPES AND DREAMS

plus you get to drift for 50 laps in a generic oval, that's an experience anyone can get behind

[drohne]

i don't think resistance is as good as halo, but my point is that these 'classes' are mostly imaginary

[MrAngryFace]

imaginary AND completely unpredictable

[Smooth Groove]

i don't think resistance is as good as halo, but my point is that these 'classes' are mostly imaginary

I get what you're saying.  I just found that Resistance VS Halo 3 thread to be completely pointless.  It was full of disingenous comments from both sides about how they've played both games and somehow unbiasely prefered the game that is exclusive on their "system of choice".

I also think GAF makes too big a deal about games that try to be art.  It's like a game can't be admired or enjoyed if the developer set out to make a fun playing game instead of a piece of art. 

It's really a pretty shitty place to talk about games. Not only do you have to deal with the fanboys but you also have to temper your comments to avoid getting banned.  The best thing about GAF is that all the oversensitive fanboys are gathered in that place for me to troll.   It's almost pointless to do anything else. 

[Ichirou]

I loved Suikoden II and I picked it up when it was first released (because I liked the first one a lot).  It has nothing to do with the later rarity or looking at things through nostalgia-tinted glasses.  It's not a perfect game, by any means, but it did a lot of things right - in terms of building on the world we saw in the first game, the feeling of amassing a big army, the story with Jowy, the Hero, and Nanami, the improvements on item-management, the much better castle, etc., etc.

Great game.  Better than Final Fantasy VII.

[MrAngryFace]

Oh I liked Suikoden II, I was just trying to explain its perceived overrated qualities.

[demi]

I just wanted to say that Beyond Good & Evil is fucking amazing and better than any recent Zelda title so lick my ass mondain

[Smooth Groove]

Suikoden fans are funny.  My friend sold a copy of Suikoden 3 on ebay for a pretty big profit even though it could still be found on shelves.  

[MCD]

And Psychonauts is pretty good.

[demi]

No, not really, awful shitfest game

[Van Cruncheon]

JOWY




seriously, JOWY, it's like they meant JOEY but a fat nerd finger slipped to the left and here we are

[Ichirou]

They actually do spell it as Joey a couple of times in the beginning but then switch to Jowy for the rest of the game.

I dunno if the game holds up today - I do know that as soon as I finished it, I restarted it to get one of the other endings so I obviously enjoyed it a lot.  I haven't played it in probably more than six years, tho.

[MCD]

why you be hating demi

[demi]

I just want someone to lick my ass

[MCD]

Not me buddy!

[Error2k4]

They actually do spell it as Joey a couple of times in the beginning but then switch to Jowy for the rest of the game.

I dunno if the game holds up today - I do know that as soon as I finished it, I restarted it to get one of the other endings so I obviously enjoyed it a lot.  I haven't played it in probably more than six years, tho.

i played the game last month. it has aged very well

good clean 2d graphics
no loadings
fast battles
short rpg (i finish it in 22 hours)

time has been kind to it. compared to other rpgs released back then, some of which are unplayable now to me now (ff9, persona 1, xenogears). the problem with suiko2 is the lame localization, so fucking bad.

[demi]

FFIX is amazing, I could play that FOREVER

[Error2k4]

those battle transitions loadings and the reaaaaaally slow battles turn me off.

if they could fix that, then i'll replay it again.

[MrAngryFace]

Yeah I liked FFIX more than X or XII or even VII but god damn the battle loading + encounter rate

VIII is still my favorite ever. Most FF games are all fluff tho :p

[Smooth Groove]

I've only played FF7, 8, and 10.  I beat 7 and 10 and thought that 10 was a better game overall but the world of FF7 had more charm.  I tried 8 but gave up because the 1st couple of hours were boring and Squall is quite unlikeable.  never tried 9 because I didn't like the way it looked. 

[Himu]

Jesus fucking Christ Mondain.