Author Topic: A rare AV Club misfire  (Read 1522 times)

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TVC15

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A rare AV Club misfire
« on: October 11, 2007, 07:18:12 PM »
Astute followers of my posts will note that I hold the AV Club in pretty high esteem when it comes to web zines.  Quality content that's not afraid to sound a bit artsy, sometimes hoi polloi, without the full of itself attitude of the worst of Salon.  It also offers some of the best interviews of today, in print or web form.

People familiar with me will also know that I like to criticize things.  I don't consider myself a particularly harsh critic--I knowingly enjoy plenty of absolutely terrible things--but I do think that people need to take steps back and recognize the imperfections present in everything.  Looking at the AV Club, it's easy to see that they have clear weaknesses:  It's not as full of itself as Salon, but it's undoubtedly stained by the precociousness of hipsterdom, for example.  This unfortunate stripe shows itself primarily in reviews.  Undue respect is paid to non-entities like Wes Anderson on a fairly regular basis, and even more embarassing accolades could be found in the music reviews.  Take your pick; the staff is filled with hipsters, making it easy to find someone with taste that you or anyone would find terrible.

But hipsterdom on the internet. . .it's kind of expected.  From Pitchfork to the Blogosphere, everyone's got a niche, so I can't really consider the hipster slant of the AV Club a total misfire.  I may not find it particularly agreeable, but it's validly targeting a demographic.

But yesterday they published a review that I find completely meritless, and it's a miss that I find so puzzling that I'm not sure it can be clearly defined as a hipster move.  I am talking about their review of Oliver Stone's Wall Street.  Before I get to the meat, let's take a looksie:

http://www.avclub.com/content/dvds/wall_street

As a preamble, Oliver Stone has done a lot of work in what appears to be a calculated attempt to alienate both the audience and the critics.  Everything since JFK has been somewhat problematic.  Natural Born Killers and Nixon are both movies with some merit, but after that there's just been a cold grey waste.  When it appeared as if his career could be saved with Any Given Sunday, he went to quick work to flush things with the one-twop punch of Alexander and World Trade Center.  Oliver Stone, today, is a joke.  That is accepted.

In short, the AV Club here gives one of Stone's best movies a B-, and in doing so they use a largely negative-sounding voice, so it's as if they want the grade to be lower, but realize they can't get away with it.  Twenty years from now, even more, Wall Street will be mentioned when talking about fictional representations of the 80s.  It is an iconic, well-made movie that is characteristic of the other Stone movies made in that period, like Talk Radio and Platoon.  This was when his movies were clear and straightforward, as defining of their subjects as entries in a dictionary.  Later on, in Born on the Fourth of July and JFK and NBK, things would get a little more ambiguous--intentionally, of course.  But here, in this AV Club review, the reviewer paints this trait of the films of this Stone period as a negative.

Building on this point, the reviewer seems to have a lack of thematic knowledge on Stone in his introductory paragraph.  I won't attack the arguer unless I am sure I am in the right on a point, and when the reviewer says, "That's Stone in a nutshell: Present the audience with the simplest, least sophisticated morality tale imaginable, then throw in a line like that, just in case the point wasn't clear," I definitely know that I'm right.  In short:  this reviewer is someone that's seen Stone's reputation as of 2007, knows that he used to do better, but sees his current reputation as a good enough reason to downplay his best work.

In short?  Wall Street is an A.  The AV Club missed the mark on this one, oddly enough during the same week that they have spent fellating legitimate hack Wes Anderson.  -1 AV Club.  It's a good thing you offered up that great McDowell interview today.
serge

Gay Boy

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2007, 07:22:36 PM »
Wall Street is a fucking fantastic movie.
hib

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2007, 07:29:39 PM »
I get all my movie reviews from the World Socialist Website.

Quote
Stone has always been vulgar. He works, to put it politely, in broad strokes. When those strokes have corresponded to something larger outside himself (“vulgar radicalism”), he has been partially effective—in those two Vietnam War films, in Salvador, in JFK, perhaps in part in Wall Street. Natural Born Killers and Any Given Sunday, on the other hand, are vulgar, nasty and dreadful.

I only ever saw the end of Wall Street, but agree that it's perhaps, in part, partially effective.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 07:52:19 PM by recursivelyenumerable »
QED

TVC15

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2007, 07:41:07 PM »
To the AV Club's credit, their review of Mala Noche let me know that it finally released on Criterion.  I haven't seen that one, and I love me some Gus Van Sant.
serge

Gay Boy

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2007, 07:44:08 PM »
TVC have you got the new dvd of Wall Street that came out in Sept? It's pretty nice.
hib

TVC15

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2007, 07:45:26 PM »
No, I didn't.  I saw it the other day, but I heald off because I could have sworn I read it was coming out in Blu Ray.  I may have hallucinated that.  I may get it to spite the AV Club now.
serge

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2007, 07:47:01 PM »
The coffeeshop where I usually hang out apparently occupies the building where the drugstore in Drugstore Cowboy (which I haven't seen, and hadn't even heard of until somebody there informed me of the connection) used to be.  It's open 24 hours and has a moderately dysfunctional service staff, like all great coffeeshops should.   :heart
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 07:51:25 PM by recursivelyenumerable »
QED

Robo

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2007, 08:11:42 PM »
Salvador is my favorite Stone film.  How it's overlooked in favor of some of his lesser, but more controversial films, is obscene.
obo

TVC15

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2007, 08:46:32 PM »
I'm not sure I can pick a favorite.  If he didn't have a shitty past decade, I really wouldn't be shy about calling him one of my favorite American directors.
serge

HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2007, 10:05:51 PM »
I join you in your AV Club boosterism, I've been a rabid fan for years, and they've tuned me into lots of great stuff I would have never otherwise seen.  They also have some of the best putdowns I've ever seen in criticism.
Quote
"Disappointing, even for a film starring Sean William Scott."
-on Bulletproof Monk. :lol
I'm tepid on Stone, but I can understand being one of his fans.

Gay Boy

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2007, 11:24:15 PM »
Oliver Stone when he is at his best is one of the best directors ever...but he can really be meh too.  :-\

A top 5 I would throw out would be:
1. JFK
2. Born on the Fourth of July
3. Wall Street
4. Platoon
5. Nixon (very under-rated)

I still need to see Salvador & Talk Radio, I've heard very good things about both.
hib

The Fake Shemp

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2007, 11:44:24 PM »
Oliver Stone's greatest contribution to cinema is co-writing Conan the Barbarian!
PSP

TVC15

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2007, 12:14:23 AM »
Oliver Stone's greatest contribution to cinema is co-writing Conan the Barbarian!

The Hand > Conan the Barbarian
serge

drohne

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2007, 03:28:21 PM »
why is a socialist website using the word 'vulgar' as a pejorative

maybe the root meanings of words have no place in our future socialist utopia

bud

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2007, 03:41:54 PM »
any given sunday doesn't get enough love. i think, as far as the more serious, realistic sports movies are concerned, it's the best of its genre. i honestly can't even remember any other movies in the genre. intense is the key word here--those scenes in the heat of the games made me feel like i was there. and the fact that al pacino, who, by the way, gets to fuck escort chick elizabeth burkley, stars as a badass coach, only adds to it.
zzz

TVC15

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2007, 03:45:08 PM »
Any Given Sunday is definitely his best post-Nixon movie (note:  I have not seen U-Turn, though I kinda want to), but it doesn't rank amongst his movies that are arguable masterpieces.  Any Given Sunday is definitely worth watching, but there's a lot of fat that could be trimmed, largely in those sideplots that don't really hold interest.  In comparison, JFK, which also has plenty of sideplotty, extraneous stuff, works as a total package.
serge

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2007, 03:50:45 PM »
"vulgar socialism" has a long history as a pejorative phrase used by Marxists.  e.g. this famous passage from Marx's own 1844 Manuscripts:

Quote
Finally, this movement of opposing universal private property to private property finds expression in the brutish form of opposing to marriage (certainly a form of exclusive private property) the community of women, in which a woman becomes a piece of communal and common property. It may be said that this idea of the community of women gives away the secret of this as yet completely crude and thoughtless communism.[30] Just as woman passes from marriage to general prostitution, [Prostitution is only a specific expression of the general prostitution of the labourer, and since it is a relationship in which falls not the prostitute alone, but also the one who prostitutes – and the latter’s abomination is still greater – the capitalist, etc., also comes under this head. – Note by Marx [31]] so the entire world of wealth (that is, of man’s objective substance) passes from the relationship of exclusive marriage with the owner of private property to a state of universal prostitution with the community. This type of communism – since it negates the personality of man in every sphere – is but the logical expression of private property, which is this negation.

General envy constituting itself as a power is the disguise in which greed re-establishes itself and satisfies itself, only in another way. The thought of every piece of private property as such is at least turned against wealthier private property in the form of envy and the urge to reduce things to a common level, so that this envy and urge even constitute the essence of competition. Crude communism is only the culmination of this envy and of this levelling-down proceeding from the preconceived minimum. It has a definite, limited standard.

How little this annulment of private property is really an appropriation is in fact proved by the abstract negation of the entire world of culture and civilisation, the regression to the unnatural simplicity of the poor and crude man who has few needs and who has not only failed to go beyond private property, but has not yet even reached it.

The community is only a community of labour, and equality of wages paid out by communal capital – by the community as the universal capitalist. Both sides of the relationship are raised to an imagined universality – labour as the category in which every person is placed, and capital as the acknowledged universality and power of the community.

In the approach to woman as the spoil and hand-maid of communal lust is expressed the infinite degradation in which man exists for himself, for the secret of this approach has its unambiguous, decisive, plain and undisguised expression in the relation of man to woman and in the manner in which the direct and natural species-relationship is conceived. The direct, natural, and necessary relation of person to person is the relation of man to woman. In this natural species-relationship man’s relation to nature is immediately his relation to man, just as his relation to man is immediately his relation to nature – his own natural destination. In this relationship, therefore, is sensuously manifested, reduced to an observable fact, the extent to which the human essence has become nature to man, or to which nature to him has become the human essence of man.

From this relationship one can therefore judge man’s whole level of development. From the character of this relationship follows how much man as a species-being, as man, has come to be himself and to comprehend himself; the relation of man to woman is the most natural relation of human being to human being. It therefore reveals the extent to which man’s natural behaviour has become human, or the extent to which the human essence in him has become a natural essence – the extent to which his human nature has come to be natural to him. This relationship also reveals the extent to which man’s need has become a human need; the extent to which, therefore, the other person as a person has become for him a need – the extent to which he in his individual existence is at the same time a social being.

The first positive annulment of private property – crude communism – is thus merely a manifestation of the vileness of private property, which wants to set itself up as the positive community system.

What Marx here calls "crude communism", or something closely related, is sometimes referred to as "vulgar socialism".  Marxism is traditionally very "elitist" on matters of culture, art etc.  Some of the later Marxist spinoffs and cultural-theory crossovers tried to change that though.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2007, 03:54:57 PM by recursivelyenumerable »
QED

bud

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2007, 03:51:41 PM »
yeah, the runtime is 150 minutes, and it could, indeed, need some cutting, but i can't remember any other sports movies that were so intense. are there any other realistic sports movies like this one?

as for u-turn--it's ok. there's some j.lo ass, a terrible sex scene--calling it amateuristic would be an insult to amateur porn, but it was enjoyable enough to warrant a watch, though i'll probably never see it again. phoenix' character was somewhat funny. it gets predictable, though, towards the end, as it's basically murphy's law in movie form.
zzz

Bloodwake

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2007, 03:53:35 PM »
Oliver Stone is the next director on my list of movies I needed to have watched by now but haven't.
HLR

TVC15

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2007, 04:00:43 PM »
yeah, the runtime is 150 minutes, and it could, indeed, need some cutting, but i can't remember any other sports movies that were so intense. are there any other realistic sports movies like this one?

as for u-turn--it's ok. there's some j.lo ass, a terrible sex scene--calling it amateuristic would be an insult to amateur porn, but it was enjoyable enough to warrant a watch, though i'll probably never see it again. phoenix' character was somewhat funny. it gets predictable, though, towards the end, as it's basically murphy's law in movie form.

I wanted to see U-Turn because Stone was clearly trying to make more of a fun movie, possibly a throwback to say, his very early work on stuff like Conan or The Hand. 
serge

Phoenix Dark

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2007, 06:28:07 PM »
I don't know anything about the AV Club but I must say I enjoy TVC's writing.

Platoon: A-
Conan: B (Willco is right. The writing is very good, and saves it from becoming another dumb 80's fantasy flick)

I saw some of JFK and it had me on the edge of my seat, despite the blatant historical inaccuracies and conspiracy mongering. Definitely one of the more engaging films I've seen on a Saturday night; I'll rent it to see the entire thing
« Last Edit: October 12, 2007, 06:30:24 PM by Phoenix Dark »
010

TVC15

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2007, 06:38:48 PM »
To be honest, I have no idea what Stone was responsible for in Conan.  It seems more like a hypermasculine Milius movie than a Stone movie.
serge

Gay Boy

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2007, 08:19:05 PM »
PD you'd probably get a kick out of Nixon since you like politics a lot.
hib

Phoenix Dark

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2007, 08:25:52 PM »
How about I watch Nixon and you watch THE PAPER CHASE
010

Gay Boy

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2007, 08:26:56 PM »
Is it that movie about those kids or whatever you linked me before?

And you'd fucking love Nixon, it's your type of movie.
hib

Phoenix Dark

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2007, 08:31:54 PM »
Is it that movie about those kids or whatever you linked me before?

And you'd fucking love Nixon, it's your type of movie.

No that's Sleepers. This is The Paper Chase:
[youtube=425,350]4n9LwIvyNdw[/youtube]
010

bud

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2007, 08:33:06 PM »
gay, did you ever check spy game?

i recommended it to you in that spymovie thread >:(
zzz

Gay Boy

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Re: A rare AV Club misfire
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2007, 08:43:48 PM »
Yes I did! It was pretty good. Robert Redford and Brad Pitt, both great actors.
hib