6th Graders OK to have Birth Control Pills

[bdoughty]

Really, you think an elective consent form wouldn't make it known that it was an elective decision?

Do you think every parent is going to read everything on the form? Some might even choose to trust their children's explanation on why they have to go.  I prefer to eliminate any kids trying to get one over on their parents and eliminate the stupidity (in this case passing out birth control in school).

We obviously disagree and I will leave it at that.

[TVC15]

Really, you think an elective consent form wouldn't make it known that it was an elective decision?

Do you think every parent is going to read everything on the form? Some might even choose to trust their children's explanation on why they have to go.  I prefer to eliminate any kids trying to get one over on their parents and eliminate the stupidity (in this case passing out birth control in school).

Yes, I do think that the vast majority of parents would read something that obviously has to do with medical stuff that is put under their nose.  I think that's a pretty acceptable assumption.

[Phoenix Dark]

Eh, we can't forget what it was like to be kids. How many times did you lie about school related stuff - and get away with it.

The sports example is very good. When you're playing sports it's not out of the norm to have to see school medical staff members. "I'm going to try out for the volleyball team and I need you to sign this first..."

[TVC15]

Possibly, but I'd still say that would be the parent's fault for not being inquisitive enough about common sense shit.  In which case, again, the parents are too dumb to trust with birth control in the first place.

I think this is a good option for kids, and I think it would be a good option if they didn't need parental consent at all.  Lots and lots of people have asshole, terrible parents that they can't talk to about this stuff.  In those cases, what's better:  risking getting knocked up or being able to get birth control?  Better birth control on the sly now than to have to talk to your religious asshole parents about being pregnant, or trying to get an abortion on the sly.

Ideals are ideals, and I can see why this doesn't mesh with some folks', but this isn't a world for ideals.

[Phoenix Dark]

Yeah, true. I guess I'll leave it at that.


shakkkee

[Mandark]

This reminds me of some proposed legislation where women would have to notify their husbands before getting an abortion.

While I absolutely think that the hypothetical woman should inform her husband and value his input, and that it would hurt me a ton if I were the husband in that situation and weren't informed, I feel just as strongly that it's not the government's business to jump into family and medical affairs based on my own ideals.

Parents have opportunities daily, before and after their kids hit 6th grade, to keep the lines of communication open, talk about sex, yadda yadda.  The govt shouldn't interfere with this, but it shouldn't take on responsibility for maintaining good family values either.

Informing the parents based on what you hope they'll do when they find out is bad, bad policy.

[AdmiralViscen]

nothing.  im getting a hard on from this thread though.  let's talk about sex more often on this board.

 

[etiolate]

I think this is a good option for kids, and I think it would be a good option if they didn't need parental consent at all.  Lots and lots of people have asshole, terrible parents that they can't talk to about this stuff.  In those cases, what's better:  risking getting knocked up or being able to get birth control?  Better birth control on the sly now than to have to talk to your religious asshole parents about being pregnant, or trying to get an abortion on the sly.

But the problem is that the thought is "they'll just have sex anyways", but I just don't understand that ignorance. Growing up, I had the same sex ed others had, but what I understood is the consequences were real and that rushing off to get fucked wasn't more important than ruining multiple lives. If others do not understand this then the problem isn't sex education or birth control. 

[TVC15]

Yeah, the problem is human nature, which is why it's best to have options.  Multiple options. 

[Saint Cornelius]

Damn, one of the few people making sense in this thread is never going to breed, while the rest of the hysterical fuckwits are probably going to have litters of shitty little brats.

[etiolate]

Yeah, the problem is human nature, which is why it's best to have options.  Multiple options. 

To me human nature would lead to realizing the risk/reward of the situation.

[Mandark]

Damn, one of the few people making sense in this thread is never going to breed, while the rest of the hysterical fuckwits are probably going to have litters of shitty little brats.

I don't care what people told you, the doctors said I might be able to make a full recovery from that bicycling incident!

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nah, I know who you mean.

[close]

[Saint Cornelius]

To me, human nature is pretty much geared towards procreation.

Well not procreation but sex. And besides, if kids have access to birth control, where's the risk?

People have been getting knocked up on accident since the beginning of time, seems like the reward (dunking your donut in some hot, wet action) is way more than the risk (having a baby out of wedlock)

[TVC15]

Yeah, the problem is human nature, which is why it's best to have options.  Multiple options. 

To me human nature would lead to realizing the risk/reward of the situation.

Well, it's a good thing not everybody is like you, or else there would be no situations like in hilarious sitcomes like It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.  There's no argument that multiple options are good, unless you want to argue that variety in people is a bad thing.

[Bloodwake]

Honestly, it's a very good thing that parents don't know exactly why they are going to the center.

If you are having sex, you need birth control. Period. Especially since people don't think about the consequences. Parents COULD say NO to birth control, but that doesn't mean that the middle school age child will make a calm and collective decision to not have sex as a result. They are still going to fuck, so there better be birth control or at least for god's sake condoms for these kids.

[Van Cruncheon]

kids are going to fuck. accept it; get over it; and figure how to help stupid kids (an oxymoron if there ever was one) deal with it. unless, of course, you want to gleefully force them into an adult situation -- raising a child and ruining their lives -- even as you refuse to treat them like an adult under every other circumstance.

our society is highly sexualized these days, thanks in part of the commoditization of sexuality and the media in general. it's pointless to wring hands over it, so get to the fucking treatment: letting kids get quick access to contraceptives and birth control, and your bible be damned.

as a dad, i know that my daughter could very well turn out to be promiscuous, because sometimes, that's the way shit falls. in that case, and despite my every effort to encourage her to be otherwise, i want her to do the RIGHT thing and get her hands on any medical shiz that won't saddle her with a destructive std or me with a grandkid when she inevitably makes a poor decision. (i will kill the fucker who impregnated her, though. i reserve a few rights.) if it means going around my wishes -- don't fuck until you're out of hs, hunny -- then i'd at least like her to stop at the fuckin' clinic on her detour BEFORE she turns into dick drive. i don't care if i'm notified or not -- i'd LIKE to be, of course -- but in the end, she's still making one small smart decision inasmuch as she's making a very stupid one, which still diminishes the stupidity. go her!

[etiolate]

To me, human nature is pretty much geared towards procreation.

Well not procreation but sex. And besides, if kids have access to birth control, where's the risk?

People have been getting knocked up on accident since the beginning of time, seems like the reward (dunking your donut in some hot, wet action) is way more than the risk (having a baby out of wedlock)

The risk is greater than just a baby out of wedlock. I don't think human nature is just simple procreation, it is also overall survival, with things like self identity along with that.

In this case, you have disease, a baby, an abortion and lucky 'non-consequence'. But being human makes all these results even more complicated. If it is just a baby, then it is a baby at a time where a child is most inconvenient, forcing the mother at least to grow up faster, or perhaps not grow up at all.  if she doesn't grow up, then the baby is even in a more precarious situation.  Regardless, the child will grow up within the world of being a teenage pregnancy and having a very young mother. This seems to lead to history repeating itself. If this happens this causes the emotional strife between mother and daughter that never recedes because one knows better, and the other knows the other has done it as well. This segments family. You bring in the stress and the rather ugly world of stress relief, and you got a shitload more going on. If the father does not stuck around, the child has father issues. This opens up even more bad roads.

I am barely touching the surface of the consequences.

I know you're thinking, logical fallacy, slippery slope, but everything I just mentioned is real and not a drastic what if.  What I just described is now a part of society and been a part of life for friends and family around me.  Understanding these things, I understood the risk and reward, and I cared about the risk and reward, for I saw how much it hurt others around me, and the reason I cared was that they were human beings, and I am a part of that humanity. To me, that is human and its nature.


but I am derailing and going on and on, so back to birth control

[Mupepe]

Oddly enough, the parental consent thing is blown out of proportion:

At King Middle School, birth control prescriptions will be given after a student undergoes a physical exam by a physician or nurse practitioner, said Lisa Belanger, who oversees Portland’s student health centers.

Students treated at the centers must first get written parental permission, but under state law such treatment is confidential, and students decide for themselves whether to tell their parents about the services they receive.

So they need parental permission to get checked out at the student health center, the parents just aren't told the specifics by the school.  Don't you think most parents would probably ask their kids why they want to get checked out at the student health center in the first place?

This is a complete nonissue.

pretty much solves my issue with the program.  Thanks

[brawndolicious]

I don't see a problem with this.  if a girl knows what birth control is and she wants to fuck the guy that just grew pubes, give her birth control.

[Mupepe]

I don't see a problem with this.  if a girl knows what birth control is and she wants to fuck the guy that just grew pubes, give her birth control.

if there's grass on the field, then play ball.

[brawndolicious]

the difference between this and going on a fied trip is that you can physically stop a child from going on a field trip and so it is the school's responsibility to take care of whatever happens to that child until they get a permission slip, which is why they require a permission slip.  teen pregnancy is a big problem and that doesn't suddenly only become possible when they become 15.  you guys are acting like they're setting up a free clinic in the school for kids to go to where they can get everything from abortions to insulin shots.

Birth control can be helpful to girls with abnormal cycles.
As for birth control as birth control for 6th graders, well thats taking a social/mental problem and treating it medically. We have a tendency to treat our social problems through non-social ways.  We made racism illegal instead of addressing the thought pattern behind it.  We give kids birth control instead of wondering why they are throwing away their childhood.

which is why they stopped segregation...

if there's grass on the field, then play ball.

as long as they're both the same age.  you can't stop it from happening so you may as well offer prevention from pregnancy.

[Mupepe]

if there's grass on the field, then play ball.

as long as they're both the same age.  you can't stop it from happening so you may as well offer prevention from pregnancy.

I wasn't talking about them.  I was talking about my own rule.

[brawndolicious]

oh my god.

[etiolate]

Birth Control: It is in Mupepe's candy bowl.

[Mupepe]

[xnikki118x]

It's a problem that needs to be addressed.

However, I don't think this alone is a good way to address it.

This accompanied with REAL sex education could have some effect.  If anything, giving out contraceptives, without beefing up and re-evaluating our sex education programs, more or less promotes teenage sex.

Answer:

1. Create a sex education program not held back by the fears of the socially ignorant.
2. Offer contraceptives as a tool for students who choose to engage in sexual activity after they have received proper education.

I agree.

Even worse is that they do not have to get any consent from their parents. 

Good job Blue State, just tear down society, family values and any sign of morality... Typical liberal minded fix to a problem. Government will take care of the problem by throwing money at it. Parents do not need to know what is going on.

So you think it would be better for the kids to have sex without any form of birth control because they feel they can't talk to their parents about it? That's kinda how teen pregnancies happen.


ETA: candy van!

[TVC15]

I'd agree with any argument for real sex education, but I think that's a landmine in and of itself.  Coming up with a program that is detailed enough, you probably risk angering the same people that get upset at the very idea of programs like the one presented here.  You'll also get the blatantly religious people saying what should and shouldn't be taught.

Again, ideally, good sex education would be fantastic, but there are practical reasons that it hasn't come about.

[Mupepe]

I'd agree with any argument for real sex education, but I think that's a landmine in and of itself.  Coming up with a program that is detailed enough, you probably risk angering the same people that get upset at the very idea of programs like the one presented here.  You'll also get the blatantly religious people saying what should and shouldn't be taught.

Again, ideally, good sex education would be fantastic, but there are practical reasons that it hasn't come about.

Pretty much.  a good 70 percent of parents are going to be offended by something in any really informative sex education class.

I'm going to just tell my daughter that guys have little anteaters in their pants that spew acid and eat candy corn.

[etiolate]

Kids get like graphic videos now don't they? I just got shitty diagrams in sex ed.

[TVC15]

I don't even remember sex ed.  It was in 10th grade (lol), I know that, and it was (I believe) 3 months, once a week, on Fridays.  Learned a lot there!  It was basically "These are STDs" generally without accurate or complete information about them.  I little remember little emphasis on birth control, for either sex.

[Mupepe]

i took it in 5th and 8th grade.  it wasn't mandatory in high school except a small section on reproduction in Health.

5th grade: "sex is bad.  you'll get aids and die"  "well what's aids"  "it's bad and it will kill you"
8th grade: "sex is bad lol.  watch this tape of this chick giving birth to scare you"
12th grade Health: "sex is fun.  now watch this video about sperm's epic journey through a filopian tube"

[etiolate]

My sex ed started in 5th grade and it was just learning what sex was. It would start out with diagrams and information on the sexual organs of your own gender(girls and boys were broken up for the classes) and then the long awaited day were you got to see diagrams of the other gender's sex organs.

[Mupepe]

My sex ed started in 5th grade and it was just learning what sex was. It would start out with diagrams and information on the sexual organs of your own gender(girls and boys were broken up for the classes) and then the long awaited day were you got to see diagrams of the other gender's sex organs.

8th grade was the first time I'd ever seen a female vagina diagram.

by that point I'd already seen a real one.  slow fucks.

[TVC15]

I went to Catholic school in grade school.  Sex didn't exist.  It probably wouldn't exist if I had stayed in their high school, either.

[Mupepe]

I went to Catholic school in grade school.  Sex didn't exist.  It probably wouldn't exist if I had stayed in their high school, either.

at least not the way i give it to you 

[TVC15]

[Mupepe]

put on some Steely Dan and take off that poncho.  we're going to tijuana baby.

[brawndolicious]

in grade 5, they showed videos of diagrams and stuff and the different areas you get hair and whatnot.  when they got to the part about dick size and the "older brother" asks the "younger brother" if he's nervous about getting undressed in front of him because he has a small penis we all.  fucking.  ROFFLED.  after that, they made us watch the "females" video and we laughed at that when they came back in.  and then we had like 3 weeks of watching AIDS videos.

in grade 6, it was learning the details about sex and some things about what happens during pregnancy and childbirth.  it was the best sex ed class I think since the teachers didn't act like idiots.

in grade 7, we learned a little about birth control and STD's.

in grade 8, we had the first co-ed sex ed class and they showed us huge pictures of herpes and gonorrhea and we had to take notes on it.

in grade 9, it was the last year and it was also co-ed.  they gave us a condom and told us to open it and "play around with it".  it was pretty awesome because the teacher messed up and bought lubricated ones so we tried playing tug-o-war with it.  the end of the year, we all finished finals early and the teacher thought it'd be a good idea to pop in a sex ed video we didn't watch and a girl was bored of finding out what sperm sounded like so she fast forwarded to the end and we saw a birth.  it was blue.

[Bloodwake]

Sex Ed in Kentucky

There was no sex ed until about seventh grade, and it was optional. It was like an hour long assembly, and they basically emphasized that sex is for married people and birth control doesn't work.

This is the same hour assembly that I got throughout high school. We had someone come over from the local "don't get an abortion" center to basically go over that condoms won't help prevent shit and that abstinence is the only way to not have your dick fall off or your vagina to become a dry wasteland of disease.

Basically, since this is Kentucky and all, the woman was basically like "I'm not supposed to talk about God in school, but he doesn't want you to have sex until you are married either. It's in the Bible (cue the Gideons)... want a free copy?"

So yeah, there were quite a lot of pregnant girls at my high school... always two or three in each class, and they usually dropped out after being disowned by their families and being chastised by the more conservative fake "Christian" kids that went there. What they really cared about though was how much drama they could create and treating kids like shit for not being "like Jesus" as much as they were, but that's another story.

Yeah, I'm bitter.

[brawndolicious]

wait, are they even allowed to say abstinence doesn't work in a PUBLIC school?

[Prost]

A few older women in my anatomy class said that the average age for sex now is 12................

god i hope i never have a daughter... even if it's not true!

[Prost]

in grade 5, they showed videos of diagrams and stuff and the different areas you get hair and whatnot.  when they got to the part about dick size and the "older brother" asks the "younger brother" if he's nervous about getting undressed in front of him because he has a small penis we all.  fucking.  ROFFLED.  after that, they made us watch the "females" video and we laughed at that when they came back in.  and then we had like 3 weeks of watching AIDS videos.

in grade 6, it was learning the details about sex and some things about what happens during pregnancy and childbirth.  it was the best sex ed class I think since the teachers didn't act like idiots.

in grade 7, we learned a little about birth control and STD's.

in grade 8, we had the first co-ed sex ed class and they showed us huge pictures of herpes and gonorrhea and we had to take notes on it.

in grade 9, it was the last year and it was also co-ed.  they gave us a condom and told us to open it and "play around with it".  it was pretty awesome because the teacher messed up and bought lubricated ones so we tried playing tug-o-war with it.  the end of the year, we all finished finals early and the teacher thought it'd be a good idea to pop in a sex ed video we didn't watch and a girl was bored of finding out what sperm sounded like so she fast forwarded to the end and we saw a birth.  it was blue.

My father told me a story about how some woman tricked a friend of his into giving her a child and promising that he wouldnt have to pay for it.  Then you know the rest....

That scared me away from slutty women.

[Mupepe]

A few older women in my anatomy class said that the average age for sex now is 12................

god i hope i never have a daughter... even if it's not true!

i miss you

[brawndolicious]

My father told me a story about how some woman tricked a friend of his into giving her a child and promising that he wouldnt have to pay for it.  Then you know the rest....
That scared me away from slutty women.

lol I think they told me that story.

[Prost]

My father told me a story about how some woman tricked a friend of his into giving her a child and promising that he wouldnt have to pay for it.  Then you know the rest....
That scared me away from slutty women.

lol I think they told me that story.

works doesnt it, haha

[Prost]

A few older women in my anatomy class said that the average age for sex now is 12................

god i hope i never have a daughter... even if it's not true!

i miss you

yeah well you don't miss catz, I saw you sneaking out before I got back, tell the truth!

[brawndolicious]

works doesnt it, haha

yeah, lol.

[Mupepe]

A few older women in my anatomy class said that the average age for sex now is 12................

god i hope i never have a daughter... even if it's not true!

i miss you

yeah well you don't miss catz, I saw you sneaking out before I got back, tell the truth!

lololol

I do miss her.  Tell her I said hi.

I haven't talked to either of you in so long and I don't see you on XBL anymore. 

[Ichirou]

in grade 5, they showed videos of diagrams and stuff and the different areas you get hair and whatnot.  when they got to the part about dick size and the "older brother" asks the "younger brother" if he's nervous about getting undressed in front of him because he has a small penis we all.  fucking.  ROFFLED. 

Huh, so the video actually starred Synbios and his older bro.  Interesting.

[Shuri]

I'm going to tell my kids whats up with all this. There's nothing to be ashamed of, or worried. It's human nature. They need to know about birth control, because its so freaking vital. how many girls we know had their lives set off the path with random unwanted pregnancies. It's weird reading how sex-ed is handled in the states, here we were taught how  it happened and what were the consequences and whats not pretty early on

The infos will be given out; the more they know, the better. If my daughter wants to get on the pill, I'll be cool with that, and holy hell i'll buy condoms by the pallet at costco if I have to. I don't want them getting random condoms from friends and whats not.

The tools and infos will all be there for them when the time comes. My parents were so fucking wacky about all that shit and that relationships stuff when I was a teenager, I don't want my kids to go thru all the bs I had to live through because my parents were so fucking inept at being parents.

[Flannel Boy]

A few older women in my anatomy class said that the average age for sex now is 12................

god i hope i never have a daughter... even if it's not true!

The average age kids first have sex?

It's not. Women are stupid. Never listen to them unless you are sleeping with them. And then... only fake it.

It's around 16 in the US.

[TVC15]

Really, it should be common sense that it's just about impossible to get accurate numbers on things like the average age for the first sexual encounter.

[Flannel Boy]

Really, it should be common sense that it's just about impossible to get accurate numbers on things like the average age for the first sexual encounter.

Most studies obtain similar results. On an anonymous survey I expect that most people would tell the truth. And people would lie in both directions. Males would likely lower the age and females raise the age. Sure as fuck isn't 12.

[Synbios459]

I'm going to tell my kids whats up with all this. There's nothing to be ashamed of, or worried. It's human nature. They need to know about birth control, because its so freaking vital. how many girls we know had their lives set off the path with random unwanted pregnancies. It's weird reading how sex-ed is handled in the states, here we were taught how  it happened and what were the consequences and whats not pretty early on

The infos will be given out; the more they know, the better. If my daughter wants to get on the pill, I'll be cool with that, and holy hell i'll buy condoms by the pallet at costco if I have to. I don't want them getting random condoms from friends and whats not.

The tools and infos will all be there for them when the time comes. My parents were so fucking wacky about all that shit and that relationships stuff when I was a teenager, I don't want my kids to go thru all the bs I had to live through because my parents were so fucking inept at being parents.

Blame that on crazy religious people (which have a strong influence here, unfortunately), my dad is one of those "put prayer back in school" people.

[TVC15]

Well, I think any study on the subject would be skewed enough that while generally correct, the exact average would be nebulous.  I mean, the only group you can put any trust into on responding on these surveys, adults, probably in the mid-20s and up range, might be a bit off when it comes to the exact year things happened.  They may be honest, but the memory isn't perfect, even when tracking things that happened within the past decade.  And while that may not seem like *that* big of a deal, when ou are talking about teenagers fucking, and the average age they start fucking, a year makes a big difference on paper to the people that throw tantrums over such things.

[Madrun Badrun]

A few older women in my anatomy class said that the average age for sex now is 12................

god i hope i never have a daughter... even if it's not true!

The average age kids first have sex?

It's not. Women are stupid. Never listen to them unless you are sleeping with them. And then... only fake it.

It's around 16 in the US.

  

[cloudwalking]

I'm going to tell my kids whats up with all this. There's nothing to be ashamed of, or worried. It's human nature. They need to know about birth control, because its so freaking vital. how many girls we know had their lives set off the path with random unwanted pregnancies. It's weird reading how sex-ed is handled in the states, here we were taught how  it happened and what were the consequences and whats not pretty early on

The infos will be given out; the more they know, the better. If my daughter wants to get on the pill, I'll be cool with that, and holy hell i'll buy condoms by the pallet at costco if I have to. I don't want them getting random condoms from friends and whats not.

The tools and infos will all be there for them when the time comes. My parents were so fucking wacky about all that shit and that relationships stuff when I was a teenager, I don't want my kids to go thru all the bs I had to live through because my parents were so fucking inept at being parents.

my parents were like this, my mom even bought me condoms once when she thought i was having sex (i wasn't). and they had no problem with me being on the pill at 17. while it felt a little embarrassing at times, i knew in the back of my mind it was a hell of a lot better than them being some crazy bible thumping fuckers who wanted me to stay celibate until marriage.

although, even though my parents were cool and open about that kind of stuff, just keep in mind that it all boils down to the stupidity of the kid. all of this didn't keep my dumbass sister from getting knocked up at age 16. she had condoms, the pill, depo, whatever at her disposal, my parents would have signed anything to keep the bitch from getting pregnant, and she was still too much of an idiot to do even that.

so do i think it's a good thing to let young people get a hold of birth control without their parents' consent? yes, because even some kids with the most liberal parents will be too fucking dumb to ask them for it.

[Smooth Groove]

Going backdoor is the best way to prevent pregnancy. 

[Stocky]

I can't wait until Kentucky hits this idea up.

[Stocky]

Going backdoor is the best way to prevent pregnancy. 

It can drip down, son!