Sony, Nintendo: It is imperative that you rip off achievements. NOW!

[TVC15]

Over the past 2 months it has become evident that achievements are a useful tool for motivation.  The bug first bit me while playing the RPGs Blue Dragon and Eternal Sonata, where between the two I easily put in an extra 10-20 hours of play just to maximize the points I could get.  Heck, I'm even going to play through Eternal Sonata again to pick up the last points.  Same deal with Puzzle Quest:  I definitely would have put a lot of time into it before, but it was those last points that kept me puzzling through that last quarter of the game, where the formula was wearing out its welcome via piling tubs of cheese onto the formula.

Similarly, the lack of achievements gave me good reason NOT to continue in Folklore.  The game had UI problems, but total package, it was at worst mediocre, and if there were points attached to playing through the game, even the second playthroughs of levels wouldn't have seemed that bad.  Instead, I quit 5 worlds in, and I'm still not sure if I will ever return to the game.  Folklore is a case where a mediocre game would have been elevated by the addition.

Got to cite a Nintendo example, too.  Metroid Prime 3 included its own built-in achievement system, except without the aspect of a universal score, it didn't do much to motivate me.  Luckily that was a case where the game was good enough by itself.

We know Sony is implementing a rip of the achievements system in home, with its trophy system.  This is of course inadequate.  I don't want to have to venture into someone's home to see their virtual trophies.  I want numbers and scores, cumulative numbers, not fake trophies.  I'm hoping there's more to Sony's rip than we know about, because as it stands they are putting work into something that I don't think particularly matters to most of the achievement minded out there.

Nintendo, well, I don't expect them to do a thing.  It would be nice though.

Frankly, achievements are an entertaining enough concept that I really wouldn't bitch if everyone ripped them off wholesale, same exact formula as MS.  It would be interesting to see which score would be highest on average if all 3 systems implemented the same system. 

So anyway, Nintendo, Sony, start your fuckin' copiers.  I can play the most mediocre shit if you'll reward me for it. 

[hyp]

i agree.  where's demi?

[MCD]

Not only it's fun, it help sell games as well.

[demi]

Demi right AGAIN

I think I'm running out of room here on my notebook of things I'm right about

[TVC15]

You were also right about Nick Frost being a smelly obese homosexual jackass.

[demi]

Pretty sure I filled you in for that spot!

[Mondain]

wow

wandering around in games for hours on end and performing tedious or random actions to get 10 bonus points that mean nothing, when you have dozens if not hundreds of other fresh game experiences that await you instead

I wish there was a way to disable those things in the dashboard, nothing nags me more than playing an epic 360 game, only to see some fruity achievement warning pop-up

[demi]

What Fresh experiences am I missing out on?

[demi]

Sony has to copy Rumble back into their machine before they can even begin worrying about achievements.

[TVC15]

Wow!  Jotaro doesn't like a novel idea because Sony didn't come up with it first and doesn't have a competitor.  News at 11!

[MrAngryFace]

Achievements made me play Yaris. I got only one, but that one achievement made me play a horrible game. Thats a great business model!

[brawndolicious]

I'd imagine it would help wii games sell a lot better.

I am more likely to add a person with a high gamerscore that I don't know than somebody with a low score that I don't know because then I know that they devote more time to playing games so we're more likely to be able to play.  If a guy has every multiplayer achievement in a game I like, he's golden.

Wii REALLY needs this.

complaining that it somehow makes people less likely to play new, under-rated games is bullshit.  most of the people in my friends list only seem to go after the achievements in a few of their games (the ones they like!)

[The Sceneman]

Im getting really into achievements

[brawndolicious]

rent king kong and condemned.

you can get about 1,900 achievements by playing both and they're each about 8 hours.  really fun games too.

[TVC15]

rent king kong and condemned.

you can get about 1,900 achievements by playing both and they're each about 8 hours.  really fun games too.

I don't think I'd play games JUST for achievements, but they are a motivator to actually finish games, put time into them, and ultimately get my money's worth.

I do need to finish Condemned though.  I got it when 360 launched, and my system died 10 days after launch, taking all my saved games with it.  I lost a saved game about halfway through Condemend, and by the time I got my 360 left, I didn't want to start a new game (Condemned is diggable, but it ain't very replayable).  It's been a couple of years, so I should probably give that another go.

[TakingBackSunday]

Yeah, achievements are awesome, even though I have almost none.  I think they can be added onto as well–with the achievement points, let's get a little incentive with them.  Maybe a deal going every few months to trade in achievement points for some free shit?  I don't know.

[brawndolicious]

I don't think I'd play games JUST for achievements, but they are a motivator to actually finish games, put time into them, and ultimately get my money's worth.
I do need to finish Condemned though.  I got it when 360 launched, and my system died 10 days after launch, taking all my saved games with it.  I lost a saved game about halfway through Condemend, and by the time I got my 360 left, I didn't want to start a new game (Condemned is diggable, but it ain't very replayable).  It's been a couple of years, so I should probably give that another go.

yeah, I couldn't start a game like that over which is why I was glad that the achievement for the alternate ending (you'll know it when you get to it) was right after a checkpoint save so you could easily get the achievements for both endings.

if you want to start over, you can switch the difficulty in the pause menu at any time to breeze through the game.  you don't really even need to block on easy.

[hyp]

I don't think I'd play games JUST for achievements, but they are a motivator to actually finish games, put time into them, and ultimately get my money's worth.

hit the nail on the head with this one.  i would not buy crap games just to boost my score.  but achievements add incentive to go back through my library (of shit i actually like!) and either complete or explore them further.

[The Sceneman]

it would be sweet if MS sent you limited edition t-shirts, caps and patches etc. when you hit 10,000, 20,000 points etc, like Atari did in the old days if you got a really high score

[demi]

Prime 3's tacked on achievements are just a marketing point they probably put in for their pitch document. Here's an excerpt:

"Due to the resounding success of the Xbox 360's achievements built into the game, the addition of in-game rewards will help players strive to collect them all, giving them their money's worth"

[brawndolicious]

Yeah, achievements are awesome, even though I have almost none.  I think they can be added onto as well–with the achievement points, let's get a little incentive with them.  Maybe a deal going every few months to trade in achievement points for some free shit?  I don't know.

old spice did a promotion where you get a certain number of MS points I think if you got 1,500 achievements in about 3 weeks.  I think discovery channel might have also done something.

[drohne]

i can't decide whether i kind of like achievements for those rare thoughtful ones that make you do interesting things, or kind of hate achievements for producing those 'do you want to get some achievements' guys in halo 3 lobbies

going through ravenholm with just the gravity gun was cool

overall gamerscore does nothing for me, tbh

[Mondain]

life is SHORT, experiment new shit instead of running after numbers

[MCD]

Some folk still play old games.

achievements never hurt!

[TVC15]

Why only do one of those two things, Jotaro, when you can easily do both?

[TakingBackSunday]

life is SHORT, experiment new shit instead of running after numbers

if that's your philosophy, STOP PLAYING VIDEOGAMES

[The Sceneman]

lol, owned

[Mondain]

there's the busy time of the day, and then there are the idle moments of any given day, which are inevitable

it's apple and oranges

instead of giving up on interactive entertainment to fill these dry, unproductive hours, I gave up on TV channels

[TVC15]

But no hours have to be dry and unproductive.

[Himu]

life is SHORT, experiment new shit instead of running after numbers

if that's your philosophy, STOP PLAYING VIDEOGAMES

What?

Also: Mondain, I see nothing wrong with something that increases replay value. I think they should be applauded.

[BlueTsunami]

Achievements are good to show your preference in games too. I mean, I've got a few Madden Achievements but I've got a boatload of Blue Dragon ones. Over time its going to be like some sort of personal signature. We need Achievement graphs

life is SHORT, experiment new shit instead of running after numbers

if that's your philosophy, STOP PLAYING VIDEOGAMES

What?

If Mondain believes life is short and stuff, he should be out there experiencing life without videogames. Videogames are just a waste of time.

[TVC15]

Achievements are good to show your preference in games too. I mean, I've got a few Madden Achievements but I've got a boatload of Blue Dragon ones. Over time its going to be like some sort of personal signature. We need Achievement graphs

life is SHORT, experiment new shit instead of running after numbers

if that's your philosophy, STOP PLAYING VIDEOGAMES

What?

If Mondain believes life is short and stuff, he should be out there experiencing life without videogames. Videogames are just a waste of time.

If sites like mygamercard.net have no problem mining the official sites for basic gamer card info, someone with a decent knowledge of web coding could probably put together an app to do that.

[Himu]

Achievements are good to show your preference in games too. I mean, I've got a few Madden Achievements but I've got a boatload of Blue Dragon ones. Over time its going to be like some sort of personal signature. We need Achievement graphs

life is SHORT, experiment new shit instead of running after numbers

if that's your philosophy, STOP PLAYING VIDEOGAMES

What?

If Mondain believes life is short and stuff, he should be out there experiencing life without videogames. Videogames are just a waste of time.

I thought he was talking about experiencing NEW GAMES not new things in life. He said earlier in the thread that he'd rather play a new game than get achievements.

[Mondain]

Achievements are good to show your preference in games too. I mean, I've got a few Madden Achievements but I've got a boatload of Blue Dragon ones. Over time its going to be like some sort of personal signature. We need Achievement graphs

life is SHORT, experiment new shit instead of running after numbers

if that's your philosophy, STOP PLAYING VIDEOGAMES

What?

If Mondain believes life is short and stuff, he should be out there experiencing life without videogames. Videogames are just a waste of time.

DUH, our days force us to WASTE some time every now and then

hobbies like games can make these forced wastes of time a bit more entertaining

[demi]

Achievements are good to show your preference in games too. I mean, I've got a few Madden Achievements but I've got a boatload of Blue Dragon ones. Over time its going to be like some sort of personal signature. We need Achievement graphs

life is SHORT, experiment new shit instead of running after numbers

if that's your philosophy, STOP PLAYING VIDEOGAMES

What?

If Mondain believes life is short and stuff, he should be out there experiencing life without videogames. Videogames are just a waste of time.

If sites like mygamercard.net have no problem mining the official sites for basic gamer card info, someone with a decent knowledge of web coding could probably put together an app to do that.

There is an SDK that web developers can use for Gamercard info I believe

[TVC15]

Achievements are good to show your preference in games too. I mean, I've got a few Madden Achievements but I've got a boatload of Blue Dragon ones. Over time its going to be like some sort of personal signature. We need Achievement graphs

life is SHORT, experiment new shit instead of running after numbers

if that's your philosophy, STOP PLAYING VIDEOGAMES

What?

If Mondain believes life is short and stuff, he should be out there experiencing life without videogames. Videogames are just a waste of time.

DUH, our days force us to WASTE some time every now and then

hobbies like games can make these forced wastes of time a bit more entertaining

How do days force you to waste time?  During any perceived period of forced waste, you could be doing something productive, like reading.

[Mondain]

because you don't have enough stamina left

[TVC15]

It's reading, not cross-country skiing.

[MCD]

Reading requires boredom.

extreme boredom.

[hyp]

Reading requires boredom.

extreme boredom.

it's why i read this forum at work every day.

[Mondain]

you don't feel well enough to do serious things that require strict dedication, and only hedonistic activities can bring you back to your old, productive self again

[Himu]

Reading doesn't take THAT much dedication, Mondain. Some times it's, you know, FUN to read? YOu don't have to have THAT much energy to read if you like what you are reading. Why and how do you think it's possible for HP fanatics to read 600-700 pages in less than 24 hours? Because they enjoy it.

[TVC15]

There's better hedonism to be had than videogames!

[Mondain]

There's better hedonism to be had than videogames!

eh, until I finally obtain my sweet college girlfriend, the latest videogame hit of the week will have to do :/

[MCD]

This forum is a joy to read.

and i like to think of it as watching so it won't bore me.

[demi]

There's better hedonism to be had than videogames!

eh, until I finally obtain my sweet college girlfriend, the latest videogame hit of the week will have to do :/

I hope you like videogames!

[TVC15]

There's better hedonism to be had than videogames!

eh, until I finally obtain my sweet college girlfriend, the latest videogame hit of the week will have to do :/

What a terribly mundane goal.  Grinding golden poos for 20 hours is so much more unique and challenging than that.

[The Sceneman]

 

[Smooth Groove]

I can't believe TVC wasted all that time discussing the meaning of life with Jotaro.  Jotaro, why don't you STFU and stop being an internet loser for a week before you start telling people what to do?

[tiesto]

Ehh, it's a like/dislike dichotomy for me. I think it's cool how some achievements are there to make you play games in ways you normally wouldn't (like surviving for 60 seconds in GeoWars without shooting), but the whole gamerscore dickwaving thing can be kinda lame. I wouldn't mind seeing Nintendo and Sony ripping off this concept though in their next platforms.

[TVC15]

I'm not big on the dickwaving myself, but there does have to be some sort of cumulative reward for getting achievements across multiple games, and while it's not ideal (although I don't know what ideal would be), I'll prefer the gamerscore over Sony's shitty virtual trophies in your virtual home approach.

I like the concept of the gamercard, too.  The score goes well with that, trophy stuff doesn't.

[Phoenix Dark]

Nintendo doesn't care enough to do this. The market they're targeting plays games a couple times every holiday season.

[TVC15]

If that's the case, then why are like 9000 Nintendo fans polluting GAF every day?  Hitler targeted the wrong demo, I tell you.

[brawndolicious]

I also think gamerpoints will influence what kind of game library you try to "build" up since average person sure as fuck isn't going to look up which games have easy points and rent them all.  they'll only keep decent games with variety, it might even help decrease the number of copy-cat waggle mini-game games (although not all of the mini-game games are bad).

[MCD]

Because they think Nintendo loves them by releasing affordable yet gimped and overpriced hardware.

[Phoenix Dark]

If that's the case, then why are like 9000 Nintendo fans polluting GAF every day?  Hitler targeted the wrong demo, I tell you.

Young children and man-children unwilling to admit their favorite corporation has ended the closest thing to a "relationship" they've ever had in order to target their mothers

[demi]

I wouldn't mind seeing what my 47k score breaks down to in a graph

[Smooth Groove]

I wouldn't mind seeing what my 47k score breaks down to in a graph

It means you're a nerd even by gaming forum standards. 

[Valcrist]

If that's the case, then why are like 9000 Nintendo fans polluting GAF every day?  Hitler targeted the wrong demo, I tell you.

Young children and man-children unwilling to admit their favorite corporation has ended the closest thing to a "relationship" they've ever had in order to target their mothers

Don't forget Grandpa. He's a gamer now too!  

Sony should have gamerscore and achievements points and have some incentive within Home.  Maybe access to special areas or things for your apartment.  OR some kind of gamercard system that shows the different achievement trophies that you've gotten for each game.