Author Topic: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)  (Read 3947 times)

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Fragamemnon

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Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« on: October 26, 2007, 02:27:13 AM »
So I played a couple of skirmishes tonight with the new AOE3 expansion, the Asian Dynasties. I started by playing the Indians, and what did I see? Elephants. WITH CANNONS.



It's like a 17-18th century tank. So awesome.

Seriously though, I don't know what to think of the Indians just yet. Their villagers are produced from wood, not food, and they get an extra trickle of villagers for most of the cards you play. They seem to be a good faction for a sort of fast fortress/artillery & heavy infantry blast unleashed just as the economy goes exponential in Fortress Age.

One thing I really like about the Indians (and other Asian civs) is that they can go from producing food to gold at their farms at will. Also, using the consulate to bring in some great French units at Fortress age is really cool.

Thumbs up so far. Only disappointment was that I couldn't get a game matched on ESO tonight. I don't think enough people have the expansion yet-I had to ask the duder at the store today to find the damn thing from a box off the floor (which in turn caused me to wander around a bit, and take in the true horror that is the Wii game library).

Tons of fun so far. I'm going to try out some more stuff and play some mp this weekend, I hope.
hex

MrAngryFace

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2007, 02:28:48 AM »
STILL INSTALLING IM GONNA BE TEH JAPPOS THEN PROBABLY FRENCH AGAIN
o_0

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2007, 02:31:36 AM »
i played the dutchies against a hard indian ai and eked out a victory -- although the big guns they popped were tough, the ai kept a steady trickle of those fast two dagger melee units harassing my villagers which was MICRO MADNESS. thankfully, i had villager damage/armor boost cards in my deck and could fend them off, but when the elephants rolled in, i lost ruyters by the pound. however, my massive gold econ let me pop 10 field guns ASAP and when paired with upgraded ruyters, skirmishers, and a pair of heavy field cannons, i blew the agra fort off the map and leveled them while my backup skirmishers delayed the elephant troops in the woods. ai seems a bit better with the expansion, i think. awesome, awesome update!
duc

Synbios459

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2007, 02:32:28 AM »
Who cares about the Indians? What are the Japanese like?
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Van Cruncheon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2007, 02:33:27 AM »
they can make flipper folk with the handi-park upgrade
duc

MrAngryFace

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2007, 03:10:18 AM »
Not sure im sold on the japanese just yet.
o_0

Synbios459

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2007, 03:19:37 AM »
Not sure im sold on the japanese just yet.
But you can use Samurai! How can you not be?
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Himu

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2007, 10:39:44 AM »
What about the Russians, Chinese, and Sri Lankans? Thailand?
IYKYK

MrAngryFace

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2007, 11:03:34 AM »
Not sure im sold on the japanese just yet.
But you can use Samurai! How can you not be?

I've always been about the Cavalry, and the French really can't be beat there.
o_0

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2007, 01:35:43 AM »
played two games as the sioux against moderate ai, won both easily but MAN i gotta think differently as injun folk. never tried any of the injun races previously. fire pit is AWESOME, AWESOME is fire pit
« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 01:42:23 AM by Professor Prole »
duc

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2007, 01:39:08 AM »
i like how each of the each expansion introduces a totally different play style, with the euro races being classic aoe, the injun races being hero-driven with resource trickle, and the asian races being somewhat more rise of nations-y
duc

Fragamemnon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2007, 01:43:47 AM »
Firepit is awesoooooome, when you get that thing fully running it's cranks enough XP to dropship an entire army of shipments really fast.
hex

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2007, 01:45:52 AM »
yeah, i just popped age 3 troop card after troop card, set my war huts to crank cetan bows and wakina rifles, and sent them jappos squealing outta honshu

still, i miss cannons :'(
duc

Fragamemnon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2007, 01:47:29 AM »
still, i miss cannons :'(

You should play around with Iroqouis forest prowler spam, it's freaking insane.
hex

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2007, 01:56:03 AM »
fucking ESO won't let me play online with a NoCD crack. that's BS!
duc

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2007, 07:03:40 PM »
oh man, i love the sioux. massed wakina rifles are brutal, although apparently the iroquois forest prowlers are even better. i fielded two 60+ forces of massed tashunke prowlers (cav) and wakina rifles and FUCK PWNED a tag-team combo of the germans and the portuguese.

the portuguese are still awful, btw. do they have ANY benefits that don't rely on their navy (outside of the extra town center OH BOY)?
duc

Fragamemnon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2007, 07:37:10 PM »
oh man, i love the sioux. massed wakina rifles are brutal, although apparently the iroquois forest prowlers are even better. i fielded two 60+ forces of massed tashunke prowlers (cav) and wakina rifles and FUCK PWNED a tag-team combo of the germans and the portuguese.

the portuguese are still awful, btw. do they have ANY benefits that don't rely on their navy (outside of the extra town center OH BOY)?

ports still suck, on non-naval maps. Even on naval maps some of the other civs do a better fishboom than they do-hell, I was able to pull of more aggressive/fast naval strats with the freaking iroquois than I ever could with the ports. :(
hex

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2007, 08:30:26 PM »
i do like seeing ol' henry the navigator crop up in an ai skirmish, though, because it means i'm gonna ROLL SUM BITCHEZ
duc

Fragamemnon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2007, 01:11:16 PM »
Some more thoughts on this, having played it all weeked.

I'm really not a fan of the way that the expansion is handled in terms of compatibility with
other expansions on ESO. I spent ages sitting surfing the net on my laptop this weekend doing matchmaking, even though there were well over 3000 people online. It's not like I am a noob either-I had the TC filter set way up (I have a low level TC because of the new TAD civ) and I am PR20ish and was doing +-10 matching. Relic's way of handling expansions sure would have been nice here, not only to find a good match faster but also to play against a non-asian civ since everyone with TAD is playing the new nations.

I played through the Japanese campaign and found it, to be honest, very by the books in terms of an RTS campaign. On hard difficultly it does put up a fierce fight early, but it never really figures out how to build up its economy and age up to better units, so as long as you can make it through the first ten or fifteen minutes or so you'll be fine after you get your own econ humming. I like the secondary objectives but even those only provide a small benefit. I'm hoping that the Indian and Chinese campaigns-which sport histories a bit more interesting than Snorekugwa-will be better.

Online play when I did find a match was very smooth and good and the new nations do bring some cool, different things to the table without the terrible balance issues that the ones in TWC had when that expansion was released. So it's perfectly competent in that regard. The improved UI is godlike-truly BHG are the best in the business in assembling and creating RTS interfaces.

So I'd say "good but not great". I don't think this is going to make anyone not previously a fan of the game line up to play AOE3.
hex

MrAngryFace

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2007, 01:20:04 PM »
I dont like the japanese. I think the use of shrines instead of houses, and the added functionality of resource gain instead of decent villagers that can farm worth a damn early/mid game is kinda lame too. I mean they cant even hunt animals. Thats SUCH a disadvantage on some maps and im willing to argue that shrine food production does not make up for that penalty. Worse off is the idea that shrines should be near animals to boost resource gain. Its SO hard to defend my population cap when the things that sustain it are placed in odd locations to help with resource production.

The land castles are neat early on but only fire a bullet, which is meh. The horse units suck early one for their price. The samurai are great but are REALLY slow. Yes I could build japanese muskets but they are average by all comparisons to some of the euro riflemen.

I guess the Japanese dont really make a lot of sense to me early to mid game. Sure, the roaming fort generals are neat, and are probably great mid-late game when you have home city cards flowing in and lots of resources, but the japanese seem REALLY vulnerable to early attacks.

I went back to french on skirmish last night and felt much more at home, even if their early econ is kinda balls too sometimes, but once you get the later resource cards it isnt nearly as much of an issue.

I also think the skirmish AI needs some work. Easy spaces out, Medium putters around, hard jams your balls down your throat and keys your car.

Then again im a casual play so im doomed to kinda suck ;)
o_0

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2007, 01:38:58 PM »
what were the balance issues with warchiefs? apparently they've fixed them, because the iroquois are :o :o :o

edit: oops, i meant haven't fixed
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 06:21:39 PM by Professor Prole »
duc

Fragamemnon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2007, 01:59:17 PM »
what were the balance issues with warchiefs? apparently they've fixed them, because the iroquois are :o :o :o

up until the last TWC patch (1.04) Iroquois were pretty insane, and had a couple of strategies involving fast fortress that were nigh unbeatable-to use them was considered laming it was so bad. Sioux were never really considered OP in any way, and Aztecs were all over the place balance wise constantly.

Edit: for details on the iroquois laming-it was a fast fortress, followed by a play of the Great House card (boosts TC damage to ridiculous amounts) and then boxing in of opponent to ensure map control.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 02:14:25 PM by Fragamemnon »
hex

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2007, 06:18:20 PM »
oh, so then they haven't balanced the iroquois. ;) yeah, basically, all the top players go french or iroquois, with the iroquois ff-ing, massing forest prowlers and playing the gh card; or the french ff-ing to age 3 and playing all the cuirassier cards. i watched a bunch of top tier matches, and it's sick -- these guys are age 2 at 3 minutes (i consistently do 3:45), and age 3 a couple minutes later. the games are over in 7 to 9 minutes -- iroquois always do an age 2 rush to slow frogs down, but if they fail that gambit, cuirassiers eat 'em. french always wait that 4-7 window out and fuckin' play cards like mad and then slaughter. jesus.

the new races don't seem to ff well, which means they are bad for top tier play, although apparently *if* you can survive into age 3/4 india can roll like a motherfucker. chinese banner armies are a cool idea that don't work for ff gameplay at *all* -- you HAFTA be able to precisely choose your troops in ff games. japan, like maf says, can't age up fast enough period.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 06:20:24 PM by Professor Prole »
duc

MrAngryFace

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2007, 06:27:11 PM »
Im not certain Japan even has a fast age up option. I tried putting more people on the buildings but the buildings appear as fully built in the building timer but the age up timer still chugs a long :p
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Fragamemnon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2007, 07:03:15 PM »
oh, so then they haven't balanced the iroquois. ;) yeah, basically, all the top players go french or iroquois, with the iroquois ff-ing, massing forest prowlers and playing the gh card; or the french ff-ing to age 3 and playing all the cuirassier cards. i watched a bunch of top tier matches, and it's sick -- these guys are age 2 at 3 minutes (i consistently do 3:45), and age 3 a couple minutes later. the games are over in 7 to 9 minutes -- iroquois always do an age 2 rush to slow frogs down, but if they fail that gambit, cuirassiers eat 'em. french always wait that 4-7 window out and fuckin' play cards like mad and then slaughter. jesus.

the new races don't seem to ff well, which means they are bad for top tier play, although apparently *if* you can survive into age 3/4 india can roll like a motherfucker. chinese banner armies are a cool idea that don't work for ff gameplay at *all* -- you HAFTA be able to precisely choose your troops in ff games. japan, like maf says, can't age up fast enough period.

ohh now you're talking dirty to me rawr  :-* :-* :-*

But yeah, GH laming and ff prowler spam (I never did the former, did engage in the latter tho) were NUTTY in 1.03 and while they nerfed GH laming the prowler spam is still around and if you can micro its sick.

India semi-FF can work-at HC L40+, I think. First card played is wood trickle, you do have to ship the extra wood wonder, then ship in some gold right as you hit colonial while going nuts on game for food w/ animal gatherer upgrades from the market, and once the wonder has started bring out some anti-skirmisher infantry and ship in some camels.

Unfortunately it will be like forever before I can test that thanks to waiting ten decades for matchmaking. :(
hex

TVC15

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2007, 07:13:12 PM »
Wait a second, what is with the arbitrary changes that really make any sense in a historical or gameplay sense (Indian faction makes villagers from WOOD?  Huh?  Where the fuck are they getting that?  Japanese can't hunt, what?  Huh?).  I understand wanting to mix things upa  bit, but those changes are so arbitrary and pointless.
serge

MrAngryFace

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2007, 07:25:57 PM »
TVC: but shrines wouldnt make sense if japanese killed the snuggly animals that gathered at them and created spirit energy that produced resources and argh awww damnit.

The japanese econ is too fukin weird for me to figure out, or defend from obliteration. Shrines have like 0 hit points, and their secondary use requires animals for efficiency, and those are everywhere but my town. Its probably best to pretend shrines dont have that ability and build them in town in stupid rows so you can sit and wonder where exactly the villagers LIVE instead of wondering why your popcap dropped to zero.
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TVC15

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2007, 07:27:34 PM »
WTF, whales are like extinct because of the Japanese!  Or do the Japanese have a policy of only giving a fuck about CUTE animals?
serge

MrAngryFace

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2007, 07:31:12 PM »
We can kill whales, but fishing isnt considered hunting!

Not being able to hunt is kinda a huge disadvantage. I dont think the cherry trees are anywhere close by comparison. Hunting + Hunting Dogs upgrade is kinda AWESOME and pickin cherries is kinda NOT

Also i'd like to add that making the japanese capitalize on their fishing resources in a game thats mostly LAND HO is kinda suk too :(
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 07:32:44 PM by Weighted Companion Cube »
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TVC15

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2007, 07:32:43 PM »
That is kind of lame.  What is their advantage to make up for that?  I mean, early game food strategy is basically hunt until everything is dead, then make farms.
serge

MrAngryFace

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2007, 07:33:36 PM »
I am assuming there is some late game to them thats awesome, I mean they have the roaming shogun that can spawn troops and get town shipments, but this game is about rushing to fortress and im not sure how the Japanese can compete.
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Synbios459

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2007, 08:05:59 PM »
I saw a disc you can buy that has AoE I & II on it, are they worth getting?
...

Fragamemnon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2007, 08:24:29 PM »
Wait a second, what is with the arbitrary changes that really make any sense in a historical or gameplay sense (Indian faction makes villagers from WOOD?  Huh?  Where the fuck are they getting that?  Japanese can't hunt, what?  Huh?).  I understand wanting to mix things upa  bit, but those changes are so arbitrary and pointless.

Indian and Hindu traditions have always held vegetarianism as an ideal, so maybe that's where the villagers=wood thing comes from.
The Japanse, for over a thousand years, had a ban on red meat/terrestrial wildlife consumption, from what I recall from what little I know of their history.
hex

MrAngryFace

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2007, 08:25:02 PM »
Spencer: AoEIII and the first expansion are awesome and a lot of fun, im still undecided on this new expansion. It seems like they made some non-rush races for a game that is competitively rush-centric.

Synbios: I would say no
o_0

Van Cruncheon

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Re: Cannon Elephants OMG (AOE3 expansion convo)
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2007, 11:40:01 PM »
it's gonna need some serious patching to make the new races viable against the frogs-iroquois-ottoman top tier.
duc