I am worried about the gaming industry...this is so unsettling..

[Himu]

Seriously.

Brain Age has sold 7 million world wide...

And yet..

Okami did 87k.
Yakuza did less than 25k.
Valkyrie Profile Silmeria 32k.

......Ugh. Is anyone else worried about our little hobby as much as me? The non games are starting to take over America as well...

[Vizzys]

Thats hype for you.

Also puzzle-esqe games are in a totally different league when it comes to popularity.

My mom plays games on pogo.com for instance. (owned by EA lulz)

[Phoenix Dark]

Seriously.

Brain Age has sold 7 million world wide...

And yet..

Okami did 87k.
Yakuza did less than 25k.
Valkyrie Profile Silmeria 32k.

......Ugh. Is anyone else worried about our little hobby as much as me? The non games are starting to take over America as well...

Okami/Yakuza/etc would bomb whether Brain Training existed or not. Those games simply do not attract casual gamers. Okami looks amazing, yes, but Viewtiful Joe looked amazing too and we know what happened there.

[Himu]

Not to mention Clover is dead.

Today has been a horrible day for gaming.

[The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment]

LOLZ GAMUHZ AND DER GAHMZ

[Saint Cornelius]

"non games" is a ridiculous term.

[Himu]

Oh right, the game that sold 7 million world wide was Nintendogs, not Brain Age.

[The Fake Shemp]

The videogame industry is heading towards a huge crash, but it won't derail the industry for years as it did with the Atari.  Publishers just can't afford the costs and as a result, you're going to see just a handful of mega-giant publishers instead of a bunch.  By next next generation, I imagine that the videogame production and distribution system won't be too far different than it is for Hollywood, where a few companies control the money, resources and dictate the market.  I think you're already starting to see this.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason E3 is gone.  And not pseudo-journalists parading about.  That show was going to bankrupt people soon.

[etiolate]

I think VJ outsold Okami actually.

There's alot of problems with the industry, but brain age isn't one of them.

[Mupepe]

Garrito, those games aren't made for the mainstream audience.  The companies that create those games most likely know this.  It's been this way for a while. 

And Willco is right about the direction of the industry.  We're seeing it already with so many companies playing it safe by rehashing the same crap over and over... just like Hollywood. 

[Himu]

Those games aren't for the mainstream audience but for them to bomb THAT badly is horrible.

[Mupepe]

Those games aren't for the mainstream audience but for them to bomb THAT badly is horrible.

Have you cared when it happened to similar games over the past 10 years?

[Himu]

Yes, ofcourse. But in the past 10 years, we didn't have non-games that are supposedly going to start replacing them either.

[Mupepe]

Yes, ofcourse. But in the past 10 years, we didn't have non-games that supposedly going to start replacing them either.

What's the problem with Non-Games?  They're just a genre.  These games you're pointing out have been continual failures for years without the help of Non-Games.  The industry should always welcome new genres.

[Himu]

Not when it's cleaning dog poo or testing your brain for points in a psychoanalysis exam. I'm fine with non-games because they could coexist, but when the non-games outsell the other games and we start getting less and less certain types you bet I will be pissed.

[Fatghost28]

It's the generational change.

PS3 and X360 are too damned exciting, no one notices/cares about stuff coming on PS2 except hardcore gamers.

Everyone else is either playing 360 or waiting for PS3.

If next year, sales are still in the toilet, THEN we can worry.

[Mupepe]

Not when it's cleaning dog poo or testing your brain for points in a psychoanalysis exam. I'm fine with non-games because they could coexist, but when the non-games outsell the other games and we start getting less and less certain types you bet I will be pissed.

But there are always dominated genres.  In the PS1 lifecycle it was JRPG's.  In the PS2 and Xbox lifecycle it was FPS and Sandbox games.  Non-Games are currently dominating handhelds and moving over to consoles.  It will pass.

[Wobedraggled]

Wii will save us all, save them idiot's that think control innovation is the end of gaming.

[ToxicAdam]

The 'video game crash' is bullshit. There was an Atari bankruptcy .. gamers just went elsewhere else to get their 'fix'.

That's why the industry will never die and HAS never died ... it will just become further and further fragmented. Gaming is an addiction, gamers need to find their fix somewhere.


What you are seeing with these "non-games" is an untapped market of new users and old users tired of the same games archetypes. That's why the numbers are so explosive.


---

The genius of the Wii, is not the silly control scheme. It's taking known quantities (old NES/SNES games) + a lower price base and trying to get into the homes of the Mothers and Fathers of the NES generation (30+). Once you do that, you get a whole new generation of tykes to play Mario and Zelda.

[Phoenix Dark]

The videogame industry is heading towards a huge crash, but it won't derail the industry for years as it did with the Atari.  Publishers just can't afford the costs and as a result, you're going to see just a handful of mega-giant publishers instead of a bunch.  By next next generation, I imagine that the videogame production and distribution system won't be too far different than it is for Hollywood, where a few companies control the money, resources and dictate the market.  I think you're already starting to see this.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason E3 is gone.  And not pseudo-journalists parading about.  That show was going to bankrupt people soon.

Wow, you don't know anything about the industry. Every single talking point you brought up has been disproven already.

It doesn't take $20 million to make a next gen game. Half of that goes into most of the games we're seeing now. And with developers opting to use next gen game engines such as UE3.0, costs are less of a problem.

The gaming industry isn't going anywhere. Sales continue to pick up, and developers continue to make monies.

[Phoenix Dark]

The 'video game crash' is bullshit. There was an Atari bankruptcy .. gamers just went elsewhere else to get their 'fix'.

That's why the industry will never die and HAS never died ... it will just become further and further fragmented. Gaming is an addiction, gamers need to find their fix somewhere.


What you are seeing with these "non-games" is an untapped market of new users and old users tired of the same games archetypes. That's why the numbers are so explosive.


---

The genius of the Wii, is not the silly control scheme. It's taking known quantities (old NES/SNES games) + a lower price base and trying to get into the homes of the Mothers and Fathers of the NES generation (30+). Once you do that, you get a whole new generation of tykes to play Mario and Zelda.

Exactly

[etiolate]

Yes, ofcourse. But in the past 10 years, we didn't have non-games that are supposedly going to start replacing them either.

BG&E bombed before keyboard jockeys even thought of the phrase non-game. It's not non-games killing those games, its the fratboy sector who are afraid of those games. 

Let's look at this honestly.

You take Okami, since this is the new holy grail, and you have a choice of which fanbase to give it to out of Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft.  Then you look at non-games and you have a choice of which fanbase would be more receptive to them out of Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft.

In my estimate, you would give Okami to the Sony or Nintendo fanbase.  Non-games you would give to the Nintendo and Sony fanbase(since guitar hero should qualfy as a non-game).

What you don't have in either is the Microsoft fanbase, which is a very rigid and stereotypical fanbase, not open to new ideas or different things.

Then you have forumites blaming non-games for financial flops. 

These dots do not connect. Stop blaming non-games for the indsutry selling out to the overused 18-35 male demo.

[Vizzys]

I'd kill for my x360 to have a more varied list of games and I avidly await some JRPGS. But I see what you are saying if you mean from a company standpoint not consumer. Microsoft is trying new things in the online market if you ask me (XBLA), and seem to have a winner.

[The Fake Shemp]

The gaming industry isn't going anywhere. Sales continue to pick up, and developers continue to make monies.

Uh, where did I say the industry was going anywhere and publishers wouldn't make money?  Way to not read.  And talk to me when you have lunch meetings with people in a position to talk about the industry.

[Phoenix Dark]

The gaming industry isn't going anywhere. Sales continue to pick up, and developers continue to make monies.

Uh, where did I say the industry was going anywhere and publishers wouldn't make money?  Way to not read.  And talk to me when you have lunch meetings with people in a position to talk about the industry.

That doesn't give you any credibility. There are plenty of publishers in the industry who are progagating these doom and gloom forcasts while doing nothing to change; EA comes to mind. Yet we constantly get information that game development costs have not increased by huge margins, and that it's pretty easy to make a cheap $10 million game.

[MrAngryFace]

Well thankfully I am at an age where I could just stop gaming if the market decided it just wanted to pimp brain-age clones and pet simulators. So whutever.

[Phoenix Dark]

The industry is not moving in that direction. Why are people so upset that Nintendo is reaching out to other audiences? If they could do that and keep hardcore gamers happy, more power to them; but it seems like they can't do both at the same time, thus opting to create a system built around short play sessions.

Nintendo is going to make far more money than Sony and Microsoft this generation, as usual.

[MrAngryFace]

Well it can also be said that as usual Nintendo will make zero money off of its half-baked console, and tons off its Gameboy line-up.

Honestly I cant attribute ANY Nintendo success to its console division.

[Phoenix Dark]

Well it can also be said that as usual Nintendo will make zero money off of its half-baked console, and tons off its Gameboy line-up.

Honestly I cant attribute ANY Nintendo success to its console division.

The Gamecube was profitable

[Cheebs]

Well it can also be said that as usual Nintendo will make zero money off of its half-baked console, and tons off its Gameboy line-up.

Honestly I cant attribute ANY Nintendo success to its console division.

The Gamecube was profitable

Correct.  Nintendo made a good deal of money off of GCN.

[demi]

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA

Yesterday or, today, or WHATEVER DAY

GAMERS REJOICE

one more retardo studio DONE

FINISHED

Yakuza SUCKS

Okami SUCKS

Valkyrie Profile 2 SUCKS

LONG LIVE THE DS MAY IT LIVE IN PROFITABLE PARADISE

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA

Don't go suiciding Himuro HAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA

[Saint Cornelius]

The 'video game crash' is bullshit. There was an Atari bankruptcy .. gamers just went elsewhere else to get their 'fix'.

 

Where else did they go? The video game crash of '84 was very, very real. Thank god for Nintendo or we'd all be reading books or something *shudder*

[The Fake Shemp]

That doesn't give you any credibility. There are plenty of publishers in the industry who are progagating these doom and gloom forcasts while doing nothing to change; EA comes to mind. Yet we constantly get information that game development costs have not increased by huge margins, and that it's pretty easy to make a cheap $10 million game.

For EA it's easy to make a $10 million game, which pretty much proves my point.  As usual, you don't know what you're talking about and all that college education hasn't helped your literacy skills.  Don't make me tear you down again.

[Cheebs]

The 'video game crash' is bullshit. There was an Atari bankruptcy .. gamers just went elsewhere else to get their 'fix'.

 

Where else did they go? The video game crash of '84 was very, very real. Thank god for Nintendo or we'd all be reading books or something *shudder*

Arcades, Commodore 64...etc

[Saint Cornelius]

Arcades, Commadore 64...etc

True, a lot of people did migrate to the C64 but arcades were also having a rough time, with lots of companies pouring their budgets into Laserdisc games that were nowhere near as profitable as Dragon's Lair was.

Think of the poor gamers that were loving their ColecoVisions only to the supply of new software dry up because Atari proved videogaming was a fad. You know why the NES had R.O.B. as a pack in? So gun-shy retailers, afraid of getting burned again, could say "it's not a videogame, it's a toy!". Again, thank god for Nintendo.

[Himu]

I'd kill for my x360 to have a more varied list of games and I avidly await some JRPGS. But I see what you are saying if you mean from a company standpoint not consumer. Microsoft is trying new things in the online market if you ask me (XBLA), and seem to have a winner.

360 is getting a pretty good varied amount of games. And it also has the largest amount of jrpg support.

[Phoenix Dark]

That doesn't give you any credibility. There are plenty of publishers in the industry who are progagating these doom and gloom forcasts while doing nothing to change; EA comes to mind. Yet we constantly get information that game development costs have not increased by huge margins, and that it's pretty easy to make a cheap $10 million game.

For EA it's easy to make a $10 million game, which pretty much proves my point.  As usual, you don't know what you're talking about and all that college education hasn't helped your literacy skills.  Don't make me tear you down again.

No, it proves my point. Many PS2 games costed $10 million to make Willco. See where I'm going?

The development costs have been blown out of proportion in order to justify higher retail prices. Sure there will be some huge $20 million games developed, but that won't be the standard this generation. $10-15 million is nothing to sweat over. They certainly didn't sweat over it with the Xbox or PS2.

[MrAngryFace]

Many PS2 games costed $10 million to make Willco. See where I'm going?

COSTED! Im glad youre going to college

Correct.  Nintendo made a good deal of money off of GCN.

Proof! That the world is full of suckers. Lol

[Van Cruncheon]

I bought a used GCN! NO PROFIT 4 U NINTENDO

(well, okay, I had to buy a new controller cuz GROSS)

[Phoenix Dark]

Many PS2 games costed $10 million to make Willco. See where I'm going?

COSTED! Im glad youre going to college

I'm glad youre going too

[Van Cruncheon]

i dun get it, pd

[Phoenix Dark]

 

[MrAngryFace]

I am known for lacking punctuation, but at least I dont say costed. lol

I mean costed just sounds and looks wrong. Dont you read books?

[Phoenix Dark]

I am known for lacking punctuation, but at least I dont say costed. lol

I mean costed just sounds and looks wrong. Dont you read books?

Pfft costed is still an actual word. "Cost" is a faggy word

[MrAngryFace]

costed is a word in the uneducated south maybe.

[Phoenix Dark]

I've used it in papers and never got marked down for it.

It's a word that is perfectly acceptable in normal conversation, but on paper it looks a little strange.

[MrAngryFace]

It sounds horrible out loud too. Listen, I am sure its in the dictionary, tons of horrible shit have somehow made it in the dictionary.

I refuse to use the word costed, it sounds wrong and it looks wrong.

[Saint Cornelius]

Phoenix Dork is right, sadly

One entry found for cost.
Main Entry: 2cost
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): cost; cost·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French custer, couster, from Latin constare to stand firm, cost -- more at CONSTANT
intransitive verb
1 : to require expenditure or payment <the best goods cost more>
2 : to require effort, suffering, or loss
transitive verb
1 : to have a price of
2 : to cause to pay, suffer, or lose something <frequent absences cost him his job>
3 past cost·ed : to estimate or set the cost of -- often used with out

[MrAngryFace]

Ok I added it to the list. Now when you say cost.ed you will say cost LOL

Oh I know its in the dictionary, but it really shouldnt be. I cant believe people support something so horribly WRONG

[Van Cruncheon]

PDork used it in the wrong context, though

"many games have set the price of" -- WRONG
"many games have estimated" -- WRONG

PD is FIRED from Evilbore

[MrAngryFace]

Cost.ed is banned from Evilbore. Forever!

[Phoenix Dark]

EVILBOWNED

[MrAngryFace]

BAM!

[The Fake Shemp]

PhoenixDark, I was mostly referring to the fact that you lambasted me for predicting the end of the videogame industry with all my doom and gloom naysaying, when I said nothing of the sort.  We are heading for a crash (one that I said will not derail the industry) and it's already occuring.  The industry is adopting the Hollywood model and why not?  Cinema and videogames are intertwined already.

When talking about the issue of costs (cost.ed lol), you have to be painfully naive if you think they're not huge.  Why the hell would you bring PS2 costs into discussion when we are past that console generation (I would hope PS2 development would be somewhat affordable, it's only been out for five years).  Is $10 million no sweat for EA?  No, millions are millions no matter who you are, but EA is not going to crash and burn if NCAA MVP '08 doesn't break its projected sales.  My entire commentary was about a few controlling the industry, and I think common sense would say that EA would be the equivalent of NBC Universal for the videogame industry.

The bulk of development and marketing costs are for next generation development.  It is expensive.  Middleware does not level off costs until about a cycle into console software.  Even then, most AAA games are so expensive that it just takes one flop to really change a publisher's output forecast.

I had the pleasure of having dinner with people who have coordinated E3 in year's past, talking off-the-record about finances and well being of certain publishers.  Last May, it was certain that there was a change coming.

But I don't know why I am bothering to discuss this with you, when you neglect marketing costs, seem completely ignorant of the developer/publisher relationship (I swear I've seen you use the term developer in context of a publisher) and use words like "c0sted".

[MrAngryFace]

I hate the word c.osted

[The Fake Shemp]

I wonder if his instructors did not mark down his papers because they laughed so hard that they thought he deserved extra credit for hilarity.

[MrAngryFace]

its a word, its just a DUMB word.

[The Fake Shemp]

It's worse than instructors who have accepted the word "ain't" in papers, which I have actually seen first hand.

[Saint Cornelius]

Oh, Willco,you scholarly motherfuck you

[The Fake Shemp]

i <3 valedictorians