From now on, Himumu shall be known as

[TVC15]

Private Snowball

There's one thing that he won't like here at Evilbore.  We don't serve fried chicken and watermelon on a daily basis in our mess hall.

[Van Cruncheon]

and to mupepe: his days of fingerbangin' mary jane rottencrotch in her pretty pink panties are over. i will skullfuck him!

[Van Cruncheon]

there is no racial bigotry here! I do not look down on n*ggers, kikes, wops, or greasers. here you are all equally worthless!

[Ichirou]

R. Lee Ermey.

[TVC15]

I have seen this movie like 5 times and this scene still cracks me up.  Ermey like entered the HALL OF FAME of awesomeness just from the opening scene of Full Metal Jacket.  There's no way his role could have been more perfectly cast.

Vincent D'Onofrio, too, actually.  Private Pyle is probably actually a difficult role to do.

[Ichirou]

He had to gain a lot of weight for that role.  It's hard to act like Shake when you're actually a normal.

[TVC15]

I forgot how insane Private Shake looks by the end of the Parris Island segment, lol.

Also, this movie really isn't as good as I remember it.  It's so disjointed.  It feels more like a series of moments than a movie.  And those moments are good, but it's just doesn't flow like the other Kubrick movies.  I guess this will rank as my least favorite Kubrick.

[Smooth Groove]

there is no racial bigotry here! I do not look down on n*ggers, kikes, wops, or greasers. here you are all equally worthless!

What about gooks, flips, nips and chinks? 

[TVC15]

there is no racial bigotry here! I do not look down on n*ggers, kikes, wops, or greasers. here you are all equally worthless!

What about gooks, flips, nips and chinks? 

Did you miss the No Lemurs Allowed part of the ToS?

[Smooth Groove]

there is no racial bigotry here! I do not look down on n*ggers, kikes, wops, or greasers. here you are all equally worthless!

What about gooks, flips, nips and chinks? 

Did you miss the No Lemurs Allowed part of the ToS?

I thought that was the no-pedo rule.

[The Fake Shemp]

:gerstmann

[Phoenix Dark]

I bet no one will care about Lemurs once she reaches 18

So FMJ is a good movie eh? I need to see it; I've seen R Lee's scene before, and the hooker scene 

[TVC15]

Definitely the weakest of the Kubricks by a considerable margin.  As a matter of fact, if I didn't see the credits, I don't think I would have known this was a Kubrick movie.

It's not a bad movie, by any means.  F. Lee Ermey and the concluding bit make it worthwhile by themselves, but it is certainly not Kubrick good in any aspect.  There are a couple pretty shots, but not even the majority of the movie is particularly sexy looking.  The soundtrack isn't particularly Kubricky, either.  I guess it feels kinda Scorsese-ish.

I dunno.  I am used to Kubrick films being the best in their genre, or at least unique.  Full Metal Jacket is Just Another Vietnam Movie, and it's not really fit to jog alongside the big dogs of Apocalypse Now and Platoon.

[Smooth Groove]

Definitely the weakest of the Kubricks by a considerable margin.  As a matter of fact, if I didn't see the credits, I don't think I would have known this was a Kubrick movie.

It's not a bad movie, by any means.  F. Lee Ermey and the concluding bit make it worthwhile by themselves, but it is certainly not Kubrick good in any aspect.  There are a couple pretty shots, but not even the majority of the movie is particularly sexy looking.  The soundtrack isn't particularly Kubricky, either.  I guess it feels kinda Scorsese-ish.

I dunno.  I am used to Kubrick films being the best in their genre, or at least unique.  Full Metal Jacket is Just Another Vietnam Movie, and it's not really fit to jog alongside the big dogs of Apocalypse Now and Platoon.

Speaking of Scorsese, what do you think of The Last Temptation of Christ? 

[Ichirou]

Scorsese's most personal movie.  I love it.

[TVC15]

Definitely the weakest of the Kubricks by a considerable margin.  As a matter of fact, if I didn't see the credits, I don't think I would have known this was a Kubrick movie.

It's not a bad movie, by any means.  F. Lee Ermey and the concluding bit make it worthwhile by themselves, but it is certainly not Kubrick good in any aspect.  There are a couple pretty shots, but not even the majority of the movie is particularly sexy looking.  The soundtrack isn't particularly Kubricky, either.  I guess it feels kinda Scorsese-ish.

I dunno.  I am used to Kubrick films being the best in their genre, or at least unique.  Full Metal Jacket is Just Another Vietnam Movie, and it's not really fit to jog alongside the big dogs of Apocalypse Now and Platoon.

Speaking of Scorsese, what do you think of The Last Temptation of Christ? 

I always thought very favorably of it.  That said, I haven't seen it in at least 5+ years.  It's not exactly the sort of movie you want to see all the time.

[Himu]

[Himu]

which one of you are going to snowball me

[brawndolicious]

PD, I'd say watch platoon first and then FMJ so you see a more unique take on the Vietnam war and then FMJ.  Kubrick said that he wanted to make a Vietnam movie only if it wasn't a generic one and had an actual point but I think he lost that in FMJ.  Kubrick said that the book it was based on really grabbed him with how the squad had chemistry.  I agree with it feeling kind of disjointed and I think they may have just taken certain interesting scenes from the book and pasted them in (although I think the book was pretty short).

Also, Platoon is certainly more violent so you should probably see that first so you don't get blown away by what you see in FMJ.

[Himu]

How is FMJ a generic Vietnam movie? Most Vietnam movies are all about WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR LET'S KICK SOME ASS WAR WAR WAR. FMJ is more about the character types than the war itself, although that obviously plays a big part. Whether you like FMJ or not, it's hardly "generic". Especially the first half.

[brawndolicious]

It's not completely generic but I don't see what it shows was special about the Vietnam war.  It had good characters but it wasn't as unique as Platoon.

[Himu]

Just because it's not as "unique" as Platoon doesn't mean it's generic. I think the major three Vietnam films can be appreciated on their own merits. FMJ is not your typical war film.

[TVC15]

How is FMJ a generic Vietnam movie? Most Vietnam movies are all about WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR LET'S KICK SOME ASS WAR WAR WAR. FMJ is more about the character types than the war itself, although that obviously plays a big part. Whether you like FMJ or not, it's hardly "generic". Especially the first half.

Well, it doesn't really have a narrative.  Or a point.  Aside from the ho-hum dehumanizing effect of war.  It is just a War Movie.  After the actually pretty unique training segment, they plop you in a war and warry things happen for an hour and a half.   It's optimstic or pessimistic or anything like that, it is war war war. 

Kubrick appears to have thought he was onto something unique in trying to present an unfiltered, unbiased war movie, but the message is nothing more than War is Crazy and Fought by Crazy People, covered both by Apocalypse Now and Catch 22.  It is difficult to care for Joker's transformation because his character never developed, just like every other soldier in the movie that wasn't Private Pyle (the only character in the whole thing weith any development).

Speaking of Pyle, great performance.  D'Onofrio's performance was the only Kubrickian thing in the movie, aside from a Kubrickian closeup of Ermey early in the movie.  It's a mostly silent performance, where he shows you what's going on via the looks on his face more than words.  I mean, it's not the most subtle performance (unlike Nicholson in The Shining, you know exactly when Pyle is fully over the edge), but it's the only Kubricky one in the movie.

That gets to another problem: for being the Kubrick movie with the most dialogue, it's funny that it's the one that has the weakest story and themes.  It's like Kubrick worked on a backwards set of filmmaking principles.  This was not a Kubrick movie, period, also as attested by the weak soundtrack and cinematography.  I don't know what the story was, but he didn't bring his a-game to this production.  This isn't even within a stone's throw of Platoon.

[Phoenix Dark]

I've seen Platoon, it's a great film. I've read a lot about Vietnam over the years, and Platoon really nails so many details. But what's most important to me is the more subtle details concerning the transformation of America's hard working lower class into hardened soldiers; the scene in the hut where they kill the presumed Viet Cong kid comes to mind. The entire film displays disorder, whether its the various instances of protocol being ignored, the chain of command being broken, the blurring of right and wrong, etc.

While I think Apocalypse Now captures Vietnam much better, Platoon is definitely a great look at the war.

[Himu]

I thought the characters overshadowed the war war war part in the second half, until the part with the sniper.

Joker's character isn't really supposed to develop. You'll notice throughout the move that Joker is the one character who still retains his individuality. Most of the other characters are mindless drones. When Pyle realizes that he has basically succumbed to being a mindless drone for the military, he gives up and kills himself. Joker, ended up living in a world of shit just like Pyle did, upon his first killing but, unlike Pyle, his character still retains his individuality. Joker is the one character in the movie manages to think for himself the whole time. He doesn't need much development.

One of my biggest complaints about the movie though, is Joker doing a monologue. Unlike Barry Lyndon, Clockwork Orange;etc. it doesn't feel as if his monologue adds anything.

I like the music. =/ It's different.

How many times have you seen FMJ? It's the type of movie that needs to "click".

[TVC15]

I understand that Kubrick wanted to play with the dehumanizing effects of the military/war, and this is arguably one of the reasons there is not much characterization, but I don't think that jives, or is really that fair to the viewer, when there actually is a de facto main character in Joker.  It's like the movie wants to have it both ways--the main character is this mostly faceless group of soldiers in green, and the main character is Joker.  In trying to split it, it fails in both ways.  You never feel that the ensemble is an ensemble, a group together; and you never feel like Joker is really the main character.  Like you said, that narration by Joker; most people would probably not even realize that Joker was the main character if not for that.

I'm all for ambiguity, and playing with the way stories are told in a visual medium, but I think Kubrick's ideas were just muddled, or not fully developed here.  It's not a bad movie, but it's not nearly as striking, or mentally stimulating, as any of his other pictures.  It also doesn't look or sound so hot.  This is the movie he came closest to flubbing.

[Himu]

I just think that people don't give FMJ enough credit or don't "get" it. It is unbelievably subtle movie. I get something new out of it almost every time I view it.

Agree to disagree.

And I agree that the group doesn't feel like an ensemble. I'm not not sure if that was deliberate or a failure in the movie.

[TVC15]

I don't particularly think there's much to "get."  That isn't a bad thing.  There isn't much to thematically get in Barry Lyndon, or Lolita, either.  They are just good stories.  They just happen to be pulled off much better.

[CajoleJuice]

While we're on the topic of Vietnam films, I was thinking about picking up Apocalypse Now: The Complete Dossier today on DVD, but I remember hearing something bad about it...anyone know/remember what that would be?

Nevermind, just checked it out...it's apparently missing the documentary behind making the movie, which is supposedly awesome.

I've never seen FMJ.

[Himu]

I don't particularly think there's much to "get."  That isn't a bad thing.  There isn't much to thematically get in Barry Lyndon, or Lolita, either.  They are just good stories.  They just happen to be pulled off much better.

It's been a while since I saw Lolita.

[TVC15]

While we're on the topic of Vietnam films, I was thinking about picking up Apocalypse Now: The Complete Dossier today on DVD, but I remember hearing something bad about it...anyone know/remember what that would be?

Nevermind, just checked it out...it's apparently missing the documentary behind making the movie, which is supposedly awesome.

I've never seen FMJ.

Is that the one with the folder-y looking packaging?  I believe the movie is split across 2 DVDs in that one.

[CajoleJuice]

While we're on the topic of Vietnam films, I was thinking about picking up Apocalypse Now: The Complete Dossier today on DVD, but I remember hearing something bad about it...anyone know/remember what that would be?

Nevermind, just checked it out...it's apparently missing the documentary behind making the movie, which is supposedly awesome.

I've never seen FMJ.

Is that the one with the folder-y looking packaging?  I believe the movie is split across 2 DVDs in that one.

Yeah it is. What the fuck is that shit. Bleh. I might get JFK instead. Best Buy owns me.

[TVC15]

While we're on the topic of Vietnam films, I was thinking about picking up Apocalypse Now: The Complete Dossier today on DVD, but I remember hearing something bad about it...anyone know/remember what that would be?

Nevermind, just checked it out...it's apparently missing the documentary behind making the movie, which is supposedly awesome.

I've never seen FMJ.

Is that the one with the folder-y looking packaging?  I believe the movie is split across 2 DVDs in that one.

Yeah it is. What the fuck is that shit. Bleh. I might get JFK instead. Best Buy owns me.

Yeah, I am pretty sure the complaint is that no matter which version of the movie you watch, you start on disc one, and then move on to disc 2.  They didn't put one version of the movie on each disc.  You know, the way that makes sense.  That is kinda why I have held off, even in light of seeing it cheap.

[CajoleJuice]

Yea, it's 9 bucks this week, which is why I was gonna get it. Glad I held off. That's fucking beyond distinguished mentally-challenged.