Author Topic: Official 2008 Election thread (Read 213232 times)

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #1020 on:** January 15, 2008, 12:01:36 PM »

Edwards could win Nevada lol. It's a 3 way tie there, much like Iowa was (!) but who knows what'll happen

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #1021 on:** January 15, 2008, 12:03:23 PM »

Im predicting Iowa 2.0 in nevada

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #1022 on:** January 15, 2008, 12:05:27 PM »

It's going to be about "organization", and Obama proved to be quite formidable with that in Iowa - despite my reservations otherwise

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #1023 on:** January 15, 2008, 12:06:30 PM »

Wasnt Iowa about organization? Didnt Mitt Romney have the most machinery?

Bloodwake · « **Reply #1024 on:** January 15, 2008, 03:08:07 PM »

Please let Obama win Nevada. PLEASE.

Gay Boy · « **Reply #1025 on:** January 15, 2008, 04:27:02 PM »

Even if he wins both he could lose on super tuesday which would guarantee the nomination to Hillary.

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #1026 on:** January 15, 2008, 05:25:46 PM »

You know, the media and public perception are funny things. If it had swung the other way in NH- if Obama had won by two stinking percentage points- then he'd have "momentum" and people would still be "clamoring for change". Instead, Hillary wins and the dialog is something different. Nevermind the fact that they both took the same amount of delegates from the state...

Sigh. I guess we're looking at candidate Hillary losing to President McCain in November. The democrats really never learn, do they?

Olivia Wilde Homo · « **Reply #1027 on:** January 15, 2008, 05:40:59 PM »

Quote from: Raoul Duke on January 15, 2008, 05:25:46 PM

You know, the media and public perception are funny things. If it had swung the other way in NH- if Obama had won by two stinking percentage points- then he'd have "momentum" and people would still be "clamoring for change". Instead, Hillary wins and the dialog is something different. Nevermind the fact that they both took the same amount of delegates from the state...

Sigh. I guess we're looking at candidate Hillary losing to President McCain in November. The democrats really never learn, do they?

I still believe that Democrats are going to win this November. Hillary is the boil on the ass of the party but Republicans are fumbling the ball worse than the Democrats. I'm convinced that Obama, Edwards, or Clinton could beat the GOP. All the GOP really has are the old tactics: scare their base, pretend they love Jesus, and make idiotic chest thumping soundbites. It didn't work in 2006 and it won't work in 2008. I think the Senate and House will lose a lot more Republicans until 2010 where it is then up to the Dems to either keep going or start losing seats to the GOP.

Mandark · « **Reply #1028 on:** January 15, 2008, 06:33:04 PM »

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on January 15, 2008, 12:42:07 AM

My dad is on Obama's election board so often we wind up talking about this. Obama's positions aren't much different from Hillary's, or any of the top tier dems. He's been successful distancing himself with a message of "hope" and "change"...but of which aren't substantial policies. He's been against the war from the start which is a definite plus to me, but I can't think of any other reason to support him over Hillary - that has nothing to do with my personal distaste for her of course.

The biggest difference between the two, it appears to me, is their sense of the possible. Hillary will take the center-left position on whatever votes come up, but she very rarely leads the way or challenges the status quo. Obama's taken positions on Cuba and Iran that are a bit outside the mainstream political discourse, which gives me a little bit of hope that he could do the same on Israel (that and Robert Malley's inclusion on his FP team).

Between the two of them, Obama strikes me as the one willing to grab a crowbar and pry open the Overton window. The Democratic party should have advantages in both seats and public opinion during the next Congress, and there are some major things that I'd like to see get done.

Edwards is still my boy, though. Even if his haircuts apparently reveal him for a fraud.

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #1029 on:** January 15, 2008, 07:26:02 PM »

:'(

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #1030 on:** January 15, 2008, 07:32:05 PM »

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #1031 on:** January 15, 2008, 07:57:16 PM »

[youtube=425,350]JC6T2WTVN3Y[/youtube]

Ichirou · « **Reply #1032 on:** January 15, 2008, 08:01:55 PM »

If you think about it

Hillary Clinton Vs. Barack Obama = Gay Boy Vs. Phoenix Dark

Mandark · « **Reply #1033 on:** January 15, 2008, 08:23:22 PM »

God gave us freedom?

GOD gave us freedom?

Screw that noise.

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #1034 on:** January 15, 2008, 08:27:47 PM »

Meh, its the same thing as saying we were born free.

Mandark · « **Reply #1035 on:** January 15, 2008, 08:32:27 PM »

"We were born free" is vague enough to mean just about anything, so it essentially means nothing.

In any case, bringing God into it like that is tantamount to stamping all over the Declaration of Independence.

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #1036 on:** January 15, 2008, 08:36:25 PM »

self evident truth" that all men are "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.

WHAAAA!!!?? Is that from the deceleration of Independence?

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #1037 on:** January 15, 2008, 08:38:47 PM »

Quote

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #1038 on:** January 15, 2008, 09:19:08 PM »

I blame Locke for this.

It is not self-evident that people have certain rights, otherwise there wouldn't have been so much dispute over the centuries as to what rights--if any--men have. Anchoring rights to God sounds good, as it makes them sound secure, but you really aren't securing them to anything. If someone disagrees that such rights exist or that such rights were granted by god you need to use some other form of argumentation, e.g., Rawlsian or Utilitarian.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #1039 on:** January 15, 2008, 09:23:31 PM »

Guess who I voted for today

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #1040 on:** January 15, 2008, 09:24:29 PM »

Harry Potter write in.
Or Jesus.
Or Blackzilla

You are complicated.

Mandark · « **Reply #1041 on:** January 15, 2008, 09:27:06 PM »

The "self-evident" bit was a change by Franklin which actually moved it away from Locke. Jefferson originally wrote that they were "sacred and undeniable" truths.

I like Franklin's formulation better because it at least appeals to reason as the basis for rights. Plenty of libertarians want to go with Locke's version but without God, which makes for a really annoying result. "The right to private property is absolute because it just is!"

Also, I'm always getting told that there's a difference between the deist Creator and an explicitly Christian God, and RP seems to be appealing to the authority of the latter.

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #1042 on:** January 15, 2008, 09:29:04 PM »

The deist god is without content. He's thus imminently more useful.

God is a pretty empty term at the best of times.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #1043 on:** January 15, 2008, 09:29:08 PM »

I voted for Huckabee mwuahaha. Kos suggested people vote for Romney but I figured he'd win the state anyway; might as well try to get Huck in at second place, thus throwing the race into even more disarray

Quote

FINAL EXIT POLLS SHOW: Romney 34, McCain 28, Huckabee 17... Developing...

JESUS IS NUMBER THREE

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #1044 on:** January 15, 2008, 09:30:13 PM »

Your trolling can be a bit much in political threads.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #1045 on:** January 15, 2008, 09:31:10 PM »

How can I troll my own thread?

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #1046 on:** January 15, 2008, 09:32:37 PM »

You didn't really vote for Huck.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #1047 on:** January 15, 2008, 09:36:18 PM »

Um, yes I did. I'm a registered independent

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #1048 on:** January 15, 2008, 09:37:26 PM »

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #1049 on:** January 15, 2008, 09:40:21 PM »

I went in expecting to vote for Romney but it was pretty clear he was going to win. His people were everywhere too, which was pretty funny

Gay Boy · « **Reply #1050 on:** January 16, 2008, 10:16:31 AM »

PD you aren't a registered independent. Michigan doesn't allow anyone to register by party. Everyone in the state is technically a independent.

Also I voted yesterday too.

FOR ROMNEY. Now I hope Huckabee pulls out a win in SC. I want McCain's campaign to die.

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #1051 on:** January 16, 2008, 12:15:31 PM »

Ron Paul beet Giuliani and Thompson. Woo woo

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #1052 on:** January 16, 2008, 01:18:19 PM »

ron who?

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #1053 on:** January 16, 2008, 01:37:55 PM »

Quote from: Professor Prole on January 16, 2008, 01:18:19 PM

ron who?

Some podunk Tejan that got less than half the support of a Jesus freak.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #1054 on:** January 16, 2008, 05:23:12 PM »

Quote from: Gay Boy on January 16, 2008, 10:16:31 AM

PD you aren't a registered independent. Michigan doesn't allow anyone to register by party. Everyone in the state is technically a independent.

Also I voted yesterday too.

FOR ROMNEY. Now I hope Huckabee pulls out a win in SC. I want McCain's campaign to die.

Whatever, I refer to myself as such

Romney? WHY? He was going to win anyway. You should have voted for Paul

Olivia Wilde Homo · « **Reply #1055 on:** January 16, 2008, 05:37:07 PM »

Quote from: Professor Prole on January 16, 2008, 01:18:19 PM

ron who?

I think he is that guy that has a Klansman working for him officially:

http://www.michigan4ronpaul.com/directory.php
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:raYaXuOMXL4J:www.michigan4ronpaul.com/lookup.php%3Fc%3DMidland&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us
http://www.mediamouse.org/features/072007michi.php

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #1056 on:** January 19, 2008, 02:58:50 PM »

Romney just won Nevada. The republicans also have the SC primary today

Polls are still open for dems

Mandark · « **Reply #1057 on:** January 19, 2008, 05:04:43 PM »

What was with that one poll that had Edwards in a statistical three-way tie in Nevada? What a tease.

TakingBackSunday · « **Reply #1058 on:** January 19, 2008, 06:04:39 PM »

Aw fuck, Obama's screwed.

y2kev · « **Reply #1059 on:** January 19, 2008, 06:10:17 PM »

I don't really care who gets the dem nomination (they'll fuck it up anyway unless hillary finds some successful balance of ANGRY BITCH ROBOT and TEAR FACTORY), but a large portion of Obama's supporters are becoming more popular Ron Paul supporters in their fanaticism and nuttitude.

Olivia Wilde Homo · « **Reply #1060 on:** January 19, 2008, 07:11:18 PM »

That about wraps it up for Obama.

The media has been taking potshot after potshot at Hillary but she keeps winning. Despite the numerous foot-in-mouth moments, she continues to clean up. The best situation if Obama wants a shot is if Edwards drops out and backs Obama 100% Even then, there is no guarantee.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #1061 on:** January 19, 2008, 09:36:16 PM »

fucking hell. hillary versus huckabee would be the worst pair of choices in recent memory

Mandark · « **Reply #1062 on:** January 19, 2008, 09:43:20 PM »

'08 Hillary > '04 Kerry > '04 Hillary if you catch my drift. Last cycle it took Dean to push Kerry into being really oppositional towards Bush. This year it's a given for anyone, and I trust the tides of public opinion more than an individual leader sailing on top of them.

But I am getting worried about the prospects of a president McCain.

treythemovie · « **Reply #1063 on:** January 19, 2008, 10:11:23 PM »

Quote from: The Experiment on January 19, 2008, 07:11:18 PM

That about wraps it up for Obama.

The media has been taking potshot after potshot at Hillary but she keeps winning. Despite the numerous foot-in-mouth moments, she continues to clean up. The best situation if Obama wants a shot is if Edwards drops out and backs Obama 100% Even then, there is no guarantee.

Eh, not exactly. In terms of regular delegates, Obama is actually ahead of Hillary. But its the superdelegates of Hillary's that gives her such an advantage. If he can get momentum from SC he can go into Super Tuesday strong. Super Tuesday is definetly in Hillary's advantage but if Edwards either supports Obama, or better yet, does really well in Super Tuesday, then the race will still be undecided after Feb 5th.

The only thing Nevada decided was that Edwards is done for.

Olivia Wilde Homo · « **Reply #1064 on:** January 19, 2008, 10:22:47 PM »

I don't see how he can get momentum that will turn the tide.

Hillary won the last three primaries, even if one of them didn't really count in terms of winning delegates. Even with the fucking up the Hillary campaign has been doing with Obama coming out on top of those fuck ups every time, he still cannot win. Hillary is doing just about nothing right and Obama is doing nothing but right but still, he loses. That is not good.

There is momentum and it is clearly with Hillary. It is very easy for the public to revisit the "inevitability" idea and just drop Obama altogether as a serious contender.

The best bet is for Edwards to drop out and back Obama 100% Then they both start campaigning their asses of for the Obama/Edwards ticket and with those two, they might be able to hold their own against the Clinton machine.

Mandark · « **Reply #1065 on:** January 19, 2008, 11:02:47 PM »

How does Thompson keep breaking into double digits?

I'm starting to come around on Drinky's thinking that he could have been an effective unifier for the GOP coalition if he'd just shown up and run a real campaign.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #1066 on:** January 19, 2008, 11:35:44 PM »

hillary is just landsliding with the female vote. seriously, i know female REPUBLICANS who are planning to turn out and vote DEMONRAT MOONBAT just for her.

recursivelyenumerable · « **Reply #1067 on:** January 19, 2008, 11:55:28 PM »

my mom is really, really, really pissed off about the press's treatment of Hillary and is threatening to disown me if I vote for Obama. at one point she said she was so annoyed she'd vote for any female candidate over any male candidate even if the female candidate were Nancy Reagan or Ann Coulter, although she later retracted that on the grounds that Nancy Reagan and Ann Coulter are not human and therefore not in fact women.

y2kev · « **Reply #1068 on:** January 19, 2008, 11:58:10 PM »

My mom wants Hillary but was disgusted when she "cried." I don't know who she would vote for now, but it sure as hell won't be Huckabee.

brawndolicious · « **Reply #1069 on:** January 20, 2008, 12:01:26 AM »

I'm currently trying to convince myself that a President Hillary won't be that bad. I mean come on, she's a close relative of Bill!

I'm mainly concerned with the next president being too trigger-happy or undiplomatic. Women just want Hillary so they can thumb their noses at men.

Mandark · « **Reply #1070 on:** January 20, 2008, 12:34:06 AM »

Quote from: recursivelyenumerable on January 19, 2008, 11:55:28 PM

my mom is really, really, really pissed off about the press's treatment of Hillary and is threatening to disown me if I vote for Obama. at one point she said she was so annoyed she'd vote for any female candidate over any male candidate even if the female candidate were Nancy Reagan or Ann Coulter, although she later retracted that on the grounds that Nancy Reagan and Ann Coulter are not human and therefore not in fact women.

I think this conversation's already happened at EB, but the best thing about Hillary is that she really pisses off some of the right people. I've been in the tank for Edwards since the beginning, but Hillary and Obama have become more sympathetic as the attacks on them have become sillier and unsupportable (she's a woman! he has no substance!).

I want to think we're heading into a Nixon/Eisenhower situation where the leftwards tilt of the country results in liberal policies no matter who's in charge, but it could be a very temporary reaction against Bush. If that's the case, I'd hate to see any of the current GOP choads in charge when it swung back, and I can see Hillary retreating to stuff like flag burning to cover her flanks.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #1071 on:** January 20, 2008, 12:37:29 AM »

Obama isn't done per se, but it's not looking good. Even a win in SC isn't going to give him the "momentum" to take California and NY. Hillary is going to win them both. Obama better hope the southern and mid west states go in his favor

And wtf @ Edwards. Yesterday Cheebs showed me a poll with him at 6% and I didn't believe it; I remember seeing a poll with him at like 25%, not far from Hillary and Obama. He should just end it. If he couldn't get 10%> in a state full of unions...yeah

EDIT: Obama received more delegates apparently. I would imagine the media will focus more on Hillary winning the popular vote though

Mandark · « **Reply #1072 on:** January 20, 2008, 12:45:25 AM »

The 4% result in delegates is a function of the 15% caucus threshold, no? His first-choice support was around 11%

treythemovie · « **Reply #1073 on:** January 20, 2008, 10:14:15 AM »

Quote from: Mandark on January 20, 2008, 12:45:25 AM

The 4% result in delegates is a function of the 15% caucus threshold, no? His first-choice support was around 11%

No, the 15% threshold doesn't come into play until the State convention. Nevada only released the precinct delegate totals, not the popular vote. And all the precincts are winner take all. So Edwards had a low count because he didn't outright win many precincts, not because he didn't have the popular vote. Of course the media isn't helping things spouting off things like "hillary won the popular vote" or "obama won the most delegates". Stupid Caucuses :/

Howard Alan Treesong · « **Reply #1074 on:** January 22, 2008, 01:13:52 AM »

Flannel Boy · « **Reply #1075 on:** January 22, 2008, 01:20:24 AM »

The god of the internet is a furry, with large tits, four arms, can't type, wears a Vader helmet, and supports Ron Paul? I can see that.

Ichirou · « **Reply #1076 on:** January 22, 2008, 01:21:59 AM »

And she's dressed like Lara Croft.

Gay Boy · « **Reply #1077 on:** January 22, 2008, 10:10:46 AM »

Hillary will be our next president. get used to it folks.

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #1078 on:** January 22, 2008, 12:30:02 PM »

Quote from: Gay Boy on January 22, 2008, 10:10:46 AM

Hillary will be our next president. get used to it folks.

I dont think so. Mccain will beat her.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #1079 on:** January 22, 2008, 12:32:27 PM »

Quote from: Gay Boy on January 22, 2008, 10:10:46 AM

Hillary will be our next president. get used to it folks.

I don't know what's more annoying, RON PAUL talk or MEDIA talking points

News:

Author Topic: Official 2008 Election thread (Read 213232 times)