Official 2008 Election thread

[Phoenix Dark]

I'll never forgive you for your REDSKINS MAGIC/FUTURE RON HOWARD CLASSIC prediction.

[Human Snorenado]

I called it just days before it was official!  They said it occured THIS WEEK.  I am a soothsayer!

Microsoft buys Rare.  THAT WAS ME.

I'm like a goddamn fortune teller!

Yeah, but you've been saying the Redskins are relevant for years and we all know that ain't the truth.

[The Fake Shemp]

There is no fate but what we make.  I cannot be one-hundred percent accurate as a result.  I was blinded by emotions.

Here - no emotions.  I'm giving it to you straight.  Real talk.  Hillary vs McCain.  Democrats lose another one due to dumb primaries and propping up the wrong candidates.

[Mr. Gundam]

Anyone else in Washington (MAF, Prole, TVC, Droz, etc.) going to their local caucus on Saturday? The one for my precinct in Seattle is at the high school right across the street from my house, which makes it really easy.

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, but you've been saying the Redskins are relevant for years and we all know that ain't the truth.

Hey, aren't you an Atlanta fan?  SMH.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

SMH = So much homo!

[close]

[Tauntaun]

There is no fate but what we make.  I cannot be one-hundred percent accurate as a result.  I was blinded by emotions.

Here - no emotions.  I'm giving it to you straight.  Real talk.  Hillary vs McCain.  Democrats lose another one due to dumb primaries and propping up the wrong candidates.

He is...a, JEW MACHINE! 

[The Fake Shemp]

Listen. And understand. That Jew is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you pay him back!

[MrAngryFace]

Anyone else in Washington (MAF, Prole, TVC, Droz, etc.) going to their local caucus on Saturday? The one for my precinct in Seattle is at the high school right across the street from my house, which makes it really easy.

Probably not. WA always goes dem and I dont really have super strong feelings towards either candidate anymore.

[Mr. Gundam]

Anyone else in Washington (MAF, Prole, TVC, Droz, etc.) going to their local caucus on Saturday? The one for my precinct in Seattle is at the high school right across the street from my house, which makes it really easy.

Probably not. WA always goes dem and I dont really have super strong feelings towards either candidate anymore.

I don't want Hilary to take the state, so my wife and I are going to support Obama. Plus, I think getting involved in any way is always a good thing.

[Tauntaun]

Listen. And understand. That Jew is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you pay him back!

   You should be on the Sarah Connor Chronicles, you could be the J-2000 model (with jew curls and all). 

[MrAngryFace]

I dont mind getting involved when I have an opinion, I just dont have much of one. Dont feel like muddling up votes with poorly planned activism

[Human Snorenado]

Yeah, but you've been saying the Redskins are relevant for years and we all know that ain't the truth.

Hey, aren't you an Atlanta fan?  SMH.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

SMH = So much homo!

[close]

No, I threw my support to the Patriots this year.   

[The Fake Shemp]

Always supporting the losing horse!

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Listen. And understand. That Jew is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you pay him back!

ONE GOLEM HAS BEEN SENT BACK IN TIME TO CHANGE THE COURSE OF HISTORY

TERMINATOR JEW: JUDGMENT CLAY

[Fragamemnon]

TERMINATOR JEW: JUDGMENT CLAY

Have you seen this GAME INFORMER?

[Barry Egan]

Listen. And understand. That Jew is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you pay him back!

ONE GOLEM HAS BEEN SENT BACK IN TIME TO CHANGE THE COURSE OF HISTORY

TERMINATOR JEW: JUDGMENT CLAY

 

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm watching Obama's speech from last night. The dude commands a crowd with such ease - reminds me of Castro, Hitler, JKF, etc. He loves repeating empty mantra over and over; change, change, hope, red states blue states United States, etc. But my heart is still pumping.

Alas, my mind is more important than my heart. Go Hillary

[Eric P]

Listen. And understand. That Jew is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you pay him back!

ONE GOLEM HAS BEEN SENT BACK IN TIME TO CHANGE THE COURSE OF HISTORY

TERMINATOR JEW: JUDGMENT CLAY

....excuse me as i steal that

[The Fake Shemp]

A lone warrior, a gentile, was sent back in time to protect me from the Jew.  The Jew had been sent back to 1984 to collect on the debts my son, John, had owed him in the future before he was even born.  He failed.  Now the Jews had sent back another debt collector to bargain with John when he was a teenager, but the gentiles also sent back a protector.  It was just a question of whom would get to him first.

T-JEW
JUDGMENT CLAY

[Phoenix Dark]

 

[APF]

Again I find it difficult to see why, after years of saying passivity in the face of Republican policies was a losing strategy (and anyone who could see the other side's perspective, a traitor), the solution is to... embrace passivity?  If you're an agent of change, wouldn't the idea be to roll-back all the things you cried about over the last eight years, uncompromisingly?  Hillary is obviously a fighter, but I disagree with the idea that anything the Clinton campaign has done up to this point is the equivalent of scorch-and-burn tactics and not, well, simply self-serving and devious / equivocating spin, ie the bedrock of politicking since the beginning of time (OMG CHANGE).  The suggestion that supporting a fighter over feel-good acquiescence is the equivalent of believing in viciousness for the sake of viciousness falls short IMO.

[Tauntaun]

A lone warrior, a gentile, was sent back in time to protect me from the Jew.  The Jew had been sent back to 1984 to collect on the debts my son, John, had owed him in the future before he was even born.  He failed.  Now the Jews had sent back another debt collector to bargain with John when he was a teenager, but the gentiles also sent back a protector.  It was just a question of whom would get to him first.

T-JEW
JUDGMENT CLAY

I really want to watch this movie now.

[Fragamemnon]

Hillary is obviously a fighter, but I disagree with the idea that anything the Clinton campaign has done up to this point is the equivalent of scorch-and-burn tactics and not, well, simply self-serving and devious / equivocating spin, ie the bedrock of politicking since the beginning of time (OMG CHANGE).  

I agree with this too. Hillary has been very careful not to go too far and I would actually describe the competition between the two candidates as extremely civil.  Barack and Hillary are basically engaged in a sort of primary politics mututal assured destruction scenario where extremely negative tactics would be a no-win situation for their own candidacy and the party in general.

[The Fake Shemp]

Hillary has too much baggage.  I can't wait 'till she gets the nomination so VETERANS FOR VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY start their ad attacks.

VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY will appear on television every ten minutes.

[Fragamemnon]

VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY will appear on television every ten minutes.

They are pretty much on TV every three minutes now, at least they will be properly labeled.

[Mandark]

APF: It's a huge thread and I could have missed it, but I don't think anyone's been characterizing Hillary's primary campaign as particularly rough.

Frag: The second half of my big post was mostly directed at you.  To repeat a question from earlier, when did she get this reputation as an effective political fighter?

[Phoenix Dark]

Hillary has too much baggage.  I can't wait 'till she gets the nomination so VETERANS FOR VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY start their ad attacks.

VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY will appear on television every ten minutes.

I agree. Once she gets the nomination I'd expect millions of dollars worth of slime to be dumped on her. Even though the shady Clinton dealings never resulted in convictions or even guilt (except for the 40 people Bill killed of couse), the resurrection of that cloud of scandal would turn voters off.

But it's not like the right doesn't have anything planned for Obama. While I'd imagine the RNC will be careful due to the race bomb, they'll exhaust every other avenue of attack no doubt.

[Human Snorenado]

I'm watching Obama's speech from last night. The dude commands a crowd with such ease - reminds me of Castro, Hitler, JKF, etc. He loves repeating empty mantra over and over; change, change, hope, red states blue states United States, etc. But my heart is still pumping.

Alas, my mind is more important than my heart. Go Hillary

If your posting record has conclusively proven anything, it's that your mind is worth nothing.  Perhaps you should listen to your heart, Maurice.

[Fragamemnon]

Frag: The second half of my big post was mostly directed at you.  To repeat a question from earlier, when did she get this reputation as an effective political fighter?

The Clintons-Hillary and Bill both-are two of the very few bigwigs in Democratic politics to really recognize the nature of the Republican beast. They've dealt with it repeatedly, know how it operates, know what buttons it will push, and, most importantly, know when it is appropriate to work with it, and know when it's full of shit and needs to be fought.

The other side is the choice of who Hillary hangs out with. Penn is a Atwater-like figure largely held in check by the obvious mutual assured destruction that would ensue if she went hard negative on Obama. Axelrod is, in comparison, an urban operator and organizer type.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Hillary wont be the president. Mccain will obliterate her.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Hillary wont be the president. Mccain will obliterate her.

Who gives a fuck about your opinion *cough*ronpaul*cough*

I still support Ron Paul, you dont have to be HOmo-Coy about it.

Mccain will get the independent vote and Hillary will get the Socialists. HIllary will talk about how much george bush sucks and Mccain will remind everyone that he doesnt walk in line with the GOP. Hillary will go on and on about the war and mccain will point to her record. In the end of the day Mccain will win because of taxes.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Tell me how Hillary is going to win.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Dammit, Jim, I'm a doctor, not a homo!^*

spoiler (click to show/hide)

*Bones is in fact a homo in many popular fan fiction stories.

[close]

[Mandark]

Frag: Huh.  I'd count Penn's reflexive DLC-style caution as a strike against Hillary.  Plus I've read a couple of pretty convincing hatchet jobs on his work as a pollster.

Right now the country is tilting left in a way it hasn't in 15 years at least.  There are several important issues to be addressed, and the Democrats should have a PR advantage on almost all of them.  There's going to be a window, I'm not sure how long, to pass a very ambitious agenda.

I think Hillary sees this.  I hope she does.  But there's the association with Penn and Carville, the timidity of her record as First Lady and then as Senator, the co-opting of symbolic cultural issues like flag-burning, the promise to pass health care reform by the end of her second term, Bill's suggestion to Kerry that he throw the gays under the bus, etc.  Those data points are concerning to me.

I'm worried that Hillary is so used to being on her back foot that she has a terminally small sense of the possible, that she's internalized the lessons of the mid/late 90's too well and won't be able to effectively adapt to the new terrain.

[Mandark]

Tried to edit, quoted instead.  Gack.

[APF]

Yeah I always get the edit/quote misfire.  Stupid placement.



So ultimately your concerns are based on the concept that, when you've always been fighting you won't realize there's no longer something to fight?

While I think there's poetry in the idea that since Obama's never had a fight in his life he'll always aim for the sky, I think it won't pass the stage of allegory, unless he goes the GWB route and just says fuck it.  Problem is, there's no 9/11-style crisis to hinge that on, if you follow.

[Mandark]

So ultimately your concerns are based on the concept that, when you've always been fighting you won't realize there's no longer something to fight?

More like when you've always settled for small gains under harsh conditions, you might not realize how much you can accomplish when a better opportunity comes around.

If a Democrat wins, they're not going to have the ludicrous approval ratings of the 9/11 honeymoon, but they should have a Democratic majority in both houses and a solid mandate from their own victory.  There's always the risk of overreaching, but trying to recreate the incremental approach of Bill's last six years in office would be a big mistake.

[APF]

I don't disagree, but I question whether either candidate will ultimately aim for anything more than those incremental changes.  Despite Obama's campaign slogans, how does an ambitious platform get implemented while hamstringing yourself to the notion of bipartisanship for the sake of bipartisanship?  This will be the first thing out the door in an Obama Presidency, and IMO won't be taken lightly.  But maybe that's your "window," who knows...

[brawndolicious]

Mccain will get the independent vote and Hillary will get the Socialists. HIllary will talk about how much george bush sucks and Mccain will remind everyone that he doesnt walk in line with the GOP. Hillary will go on and on about the war and mccain will point to her record. In the end of the day Mccain will win because of taxes.

People won't pay attention to such broad generalizations after 8 years when we're in the beginning of another recession.  And sorry, but most people supporting Hillary aren't "socialists" you baboon.

[VALIS]

Again I find it difficult to see why, after years of saying passivity in the face of Republican policies was a losing strategy (and anyone who could see the other side's perspective, a traitor), the solution is to... embrace passivity?  If you're an agent of change, wouldn't the idea be to roll-back all the things you cried about over the last eight years, uncompromisingly?  Hillary is obviously a fighter, but I disagree with the idea that anything the Clinton campaign has done up to this point is the equivalent of scorch-and-burn tactics and not, well, simply self-serving and devious / equivocating spin, ie the bedrock of politicking since the beginning of time (OMG CHANGE).  The suggestion that supporting a fighter over feel-good acquiescence is the equivalent of believing in viciousness for the sake of viciousness falls short IMO.

I don't know about the rest of Obama Nation, but I don't take his "willing to reach across the aisle" and other play nice platitudes at face value.

That's his coat of armor. That's what makes him a much stronger candidate than Hillary in my eyes. I don't think he plans on being some bi-partisan healer of American politics, he's just promoting it. The new guy is totally owning the old crow in political strategy. I'm sure he believes some of that stuff, maybe he believes most of it, but he won't necessarily do it. He has a very liberal voting record. The more important thing is all this talk of bi-partisanship and his race makes him difficult to attack. They would never swift boat him. Maybe under the table, but I don't think anyone would go national with a swift boat-like attack on the "classy" Obama. Would be suicide.

Hillary? They'll kill her. She's probably Public Enemy #1 of the GOP. She will rally them, and they will trample her. Sure, she's tough, and so is her team, but this body armor stuff is even more important if one of them becomes president. Even if Hillary survives the best the GOP throws at her in the run to the general election, it would still be all-out war on her once she took office. I could almost guarantee you'd see the major shifts back to red in the congress in 2010. Everything she does will be crucified on a national scale.

Now Obama. Do you think they're going to do that to him? Maybe eventually, but not right away they won't. If Obama is out there banging the podium for unity and cooperation and you're on the sidelines attacking him even when he's pushing through key Democratic items, you're gonna be the one who looks stupid. This is huuuge.

I've learned over the years the dumbest thing you can do is take politics at face value. Maybe I'm too cynical, or just plain wrong, but I don't think so. I'm sure Obama believes in some of what he's saying, but this is also his political strategy. And it's a very good one.

[MrAngryFace]

Well he isn't where he is cause he doesnt know what he's doing.

[Mandark]

Obama's idea of unity is kind of like Bush's.  "Everybody vote for me!"

He's upfront enough about his agenda (get out of Iraq, pass environmental and healthcare reforms) that people would have a pretty firm grasp on it by November and would know roughly what to expect if he won.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

McCain and his policy towards Vietnamese POW/MIAs post 1973 is a huge weapon Hillary can wield against McCain.

[FlameOfCallandor]

McCain and his policy towards Vietnamese POW/MIAs post 1973 is a huge weapon Hillary can wield against McCain.

Explain.

[Tauntaun]

Looks like Romney's out.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23050678/

[AdmiralViscen]

Yup. Booya to dems.

Makes Huckabee look like an even bigger idiot

edit: No, Romney is the biggest

saying if he continued it would "forestall the launch of a national campaign and be making it easier for Sen. Clinton or Obama to win."

"In this time of war, I simply cannot let my campaign be a part of aiding a surrender to terror."

[Phoenix Dark]

You do know Obama is a Muslim amirite?

[Human Snorenado]

You do know Obama is a Muslim amirite?

HOW ABOUT THOSE "ROMNEY WILL BEAT HILLARY" PREDICTIONS, MAURICE?  HUH?  HUH?

[Eric P]

classy guy

[Phoenix Dark]

You do know Obama is a Muslim amirite?

HOW ABOUT THOSE "ROMNEY WILL BEAT HILLARY" PREDICTIONS, MAURICE?  HUH?  HUH?

My new talking point: McCain will beat Hillary

[Human Snorenado]

You do know Obama is a Muslim amirite?

HOW ABOUT THOSE "ROMNEY WILL BEAT HILLARY" PREDICTIONS, MAURICE?  HUH?  HUH?

My new talking point: McCain will beat Hillary

*ring ring*

This is reality calling, Maurice.  It's telling you that HILLARY WILL NOT BE THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE.

I swear, for someone who tries to paint himself as a democrat despite being a homeskoold fundie freak, you sure do like to paint doom and gloom for the dems.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

He WOULD beat her, but Obama is going to be the nominee.  SUCK IT.

[close]

[AdmiralViscen]

$7.4M

[Phoenix Dark]

I'll believe it when I see it. March 4th bitches

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I think it's going to a be a really damned interesting Democratic convention. it's possible that neither candidate will have enough pledged delegates to claim an easy victory and there will be hell of brokerage going on behind the scenes

I, for one, look forward to President Obama and Attorney General Edwards

[Phoenix Dark]

There's talk that Dean won't let a brokered convention happen. He's going to meet with both candidates after March 4th and ensure one drops out before August. If this is true, whoever wins on March 4th wins the nom

My problem with this: if Hillary is losing after March 4th I seriously doubt she'll just give up at Dean's behest. Obviously he could just rally the super delegates but it seems a bit too dramatic too me.

[Human Snorenado]

If you look at the primaries/caucuses between now and the 4th, it's not unreasonable to assume that Obama might win ALL of them.  The only opportunities I see for Hillary are Maine, Virginia and Wisconsin, and at best she might win 2 of them.  Maybe. 

So if Obama wins every contest between now and the 4th, and his Iowa/SC team is ALREADY on the ground in Tejas... I just don't see how she does it.  The fact that her name is Hillary Clinton is not enough anymore, and I say good because this was never supposed to be a coronation and that's EXACTLY what she treated it like.

[Eric P]

a year ago i thought it would be funny if hillary became president, but then my attitude has changed

brand identity can work great (the Adams crew) or horribly (the bush legacy) but i think it's too soon to try again

[Phoenix Dark]

If you look at the primaries/caucuses between now and the 4th, it's not unreasonable to assume that Obama might win ALL of them.  The only opportunities I see for Hillary are Maine, Virginia and Wisconsin, and at best she might win 2 of them.  Maybe. 

So if Obama wins every contest between now and the 4th, and his Iowa/SC team is ALREADY on the ground in Tejas... I just don't see how she does it.  The fact that her name is Hillary Clinton is not enough anymore, and I say good because this was never supposed to be a coronation and that's EXACTLY what she treated it like.

Are you joking? She's going to basically split the next few states with Obama - he'll win more states, she'll get a good amount of delegates. Then she'll win the big states later in March, Texas (huge hispanic population) and Ohio

[Howard Alan Treesong]

a year ago i thought it would be funny if hillary became president, but then my attitude has changed

brand identity can work great (the Adams crew) or horribly (the bush legacy) but i think it's too soon to try again

but then we can get Jeb in 2012!
then, uh, Chelsea in 2020? I dunno. George Clinton?

[Human Snorenado]

If you look at the primaries/caucuses between now and the 4th, it's not unreasonable to assume that Obama might win ALL of them.  The only opportunities I see for Hillary are Maine, Virginia and Wisconsin, and at best she might win 2 of them.  Maybe. 

So if Obama wins every contest between now and the 4th, and his Iowa/SC team is ALREADY on the ground in Tejas... I just don't see how she does it.  The fact that her name is Hillary Clinton is not enough anymore, and I say good because this was never supposed to be a coronation and that's EXACTLY what she treated it like.

Are you joking? She's going to basically split the next few states with Obama - he'll win more states, she'll get a good amount of delegates. Then she'll win the big states later in March, Texas (huge hispanic population) and Ohio

Uh no

Washington- caucus state with plenty of yuppies, Obama polling up by 22 points
Nebraska- caucus state, Obama has done well in the mid-west and has gotten several key endorsements
Louisiana- All fear the black attack, suckas
Maine- might lose narrowly or win narrowly
DC- lolz, win in a landslide
Virginia- split demographics give Hilary a narrow chance for victory
Maryland- 30% black vote, lolz
Hawaii- win in a landslide, 2nd home state
Wisconsin- could go either way, but keep in mind that another guy that has been against the war from the beginning (Russ Feingold) has done real well as a Senator there

Also, Obama has been hittting up those states for the past two weeks and has more money, and will continue to have more money than Hillary and is probably a couple more victories away from winning the Gore sweepstakes.  Hillary has run a very stupid campaign (running on "inevitability" and name recognition, paying her flunkies like Penn exorbitant salaries for shitty work) and Obama has been taking advantage of what Dean has built in the past four years- a national democratic party.  She has only her self to blame for this predicament.

So now, please explain how she's "basically going to split the next few states with Obama".  I'm going to relish rubbing THAT ONE in your face after next Tuesday.  And I'll keep doing it until you admit you're a know-nothing, home skooled shitburger from Michigan that secretly wants a Republican in the White House.