HOLY FUCK BATTLESTAR! I WAS WRONG! AWESOME FUCKING SHOW!!!!!

[TVC15]

is what I'd be saying if I were originally wrong, if it were an awesome fucking show. 

I have watched the entire miniseries over the past several hours, and the show is still, at best, mediocre scifi garbage.  The majority of the time, it is completely unremarkable in any way.

To the fans out there, don't get me wrong, this is decent TV scifi, possibly even on the level of better Star Trek shows, but it doesn't deserve anywhere near the accolades it gets.  I have tried these pants on may times, having been told that it's not just good scifi, it is good TV, period.  If anyone here thinks this is good TV, relative to what is on the air, I DARE you to watch an HBO series for 30 seconds.  You will shit your uneducated bald pants.

[TakingBackSunday]

[Joe Molotov]

The miniseries is the worst part of the entire series.

[TVC15]

The miniseries is the worst part of the entire series.

Even worse than the largely panned series 3?

I will report back in a few days about my progress in season 1, but unless this gets exponentially better, it's nothing good or noteworthy.

[Eric P]

i loved series 3.

probably my favorite stuff from the show comes from that cluster of episodes

White Man, watch the first episode of the regular series.  it's really quite good.

[Eel O'Brian]

I hate when they try to cram modern soapbox topics like current political climates into shows like this.  I don't mind it so much in shows set during current times, because at least there it makes story sense, but you gotta figure that in the far-flung future the entire world is going to go through some drastic fundamental cultural and political shifts

[Ichirou]

Confession time:  I only watch it because I think Grace Park is hot.

[Eric P]

well sci-fi television shows have a long history of being thinly veiled allegory

[TVC15]

i loved series 3.

probably my favorite stuff from the show comes from that cluster of episodes

White Man, watch the first episode of the regular series.  it's really quite good.

I've watched 33 before.  More than once.  It doesn't sell me.  It's all as obvious as an OG Star Trek episode, without any of the fun.  So dire, so serious, so zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I have tried to get into new BG more than a few times.  I figured HD would finally get me over the hump. The sheer SciFi Channel-quality genericness prevents that.  It's just too shallow and milquetoast to be enjoyable.  This crap could have been written by a tardo that's entirely unfamiliar with scifi, as if they watched the OG Star Trek, and ignored all developments in any scifi since.  It is garbage.  The Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman of scifi.

[Joe Molotov]

The miniseries is the worst part of the entire series.

Even worse than the largely panned series 3?

Yes.

I watched the miniseries when it first aired, and had no desire to watch the regular series when it started a year later. Then after it was released on DVD, I found a copy for $20 and picked it up on a whim. I was blown away by how good it was. From the very first episode "33", it hits the ground running and doesn't let up for the entire first season. For like the first 15 episodes or so, every episode is the best episode because it's better than the one before it. It does fall into a routine after a while, there's some slow parts in Season 2, and after an explosive start to Season 3, it does drag a bit, but still I can't wait for Season 4. I hope the strike doesn't screw it up.

[Eric P]

if you didn't like 33, then i have doubts as to if you'll become a fan of the rest of the series

[TVC15]

Read my edits there.  Apologies.  If I had known 2 posts would have popped up, I would have put them in a new one.

[Joe Molotov]

i loved series 3.

probably my favorite stuff from the show comes from that cluster of episodes

White Man, watch the first episode of the regular series.  it's really quite good.

I've watched 33 before.  More than once.  It doesn't sell me.  It's all as obvious as an OG Star Trek episode, without any of the fun.  So dire, so serious, so zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Oh well, nevermind then. The dire seriousness is the main thing that BSG has going for it. It's a very bleak show.

[TVC15]

i loved series 3.

probably my favorite stuff from the show comes from that cluster of episodes

White Man, watch the first episode of the regular series.  it's really quite good.

I've watched 33 before.  More than once.  It doesn't sell me.  It's all as obvious as an OG Star Trek episode, without any of the fun.  So dire, so serious, so zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Oh well, nevermind then. The dire seriousness is the main thing that BSG has going for it. It's a very bleak show.

It sells the bleakness just as well as ST:TOS sold the implications of Kirk's interstellar manwhorization.  As in, not at all.

[Ichirou]

Ya know, maybe it's better you don't get into BSG, TVC.  A couple of seasons in, you realize that the writers are just pulling the story and mysteries out of their asses and there was never even an outline of where the series was gonna go.

[TVC15]

Ya know, maybe it's better you don't get into BSG, TVC.  A couple of seasons in, you realize that the writers are just pulling the story and mysteries out of their asses and there was never even an outline of where the series was gonna go.

I have to be honest and admit that there are a few interesting developments in the miniseries.  Unfortunately, said developments appear to be of the same breed as the X-Files, Christ Carter Bullshit Breed,


To new television viewers:  Stories are generally conceived thematically.  This means that their ending is developed long before their ending.  Shit like Lost, The X-Files, and Battlestar is clearly vice-versa--garbage made up as it goes along.  This sort of show deserves no respect.  It is not good.  When one is always riding a cliffhanger, it is not difficult to deliver the next big bomba.  Enjoy being suckers.  the show sucks ass.  Truly terrible shit.

[APF]

How did it go from being decent to being shit?

[Ichirou]

Ya know, maybe it's better you don't get into BSG, TVC.  A couple of seasons in, you realize that the writers are just pulling the story and mysteries out of their asses and there was never even an outline of where the series was gonna go.

I have to be honest and admit that there are a few interesting developments in the miniseries.  Unfortunately, said developments appear to be of the same breed as the X-Files, Christ Carter Bullshit Breed,


To new television viewers:  Stories are generally conceived thematically.  This means that their ending is developed long before their ending.  Shit like Lost, The X-Files, and Battlestar is clearly vice-versa--garbage made up as it goes along.  This sort of show deserves no respect.  It is not good.  When one is always riding a cliffhanger, it is not difficult to deliver the next big bomba.  Enjoy being suckers.  the show sucks ass.  Truly terrible shit.

QFT.  I hate this type of show.  It's basically a complete waste of the viewers' time.  Especially when the show revolves around a mystery and you think to yourself "Well, if I pay attention, maybe I can figure out what's going on."  But, y'know, you CAN'T, because not even the writers know what's going on!  They're just making shit up as they go along, and if it matches what they've written before, great.  If not, oh, well, they'll just retroactively try to make it fit by adding flashbacks, ignoring bits of character development, etc., etc.

It's insulting to the audience.  But I will still watch because Grace Park is hot.

[Joe Molotov]

How did it go from being decent to being shit?

Just let him have his fun. There's no reasoning with him at this point.

[MrAngryFace]

Stargate SG-1/Atlantis > BSG

[The Fake Shemp]

I love Battlestar Galactica and I watch HBO and Showtime shows, as well.  Eat that!

Battlestar Galactica is the best science-fiction on television and there really is no counter-argument to that.  I know MAF loves him some Stargate, but that's trashy, low budget (I mean the lighting alone looks like a WB production!) sci-fi you watch on a lazy Sunday afternoon.  I know both MAF and TVC love being iconoclasts more than they like Battlestar Galactica, that's for sure!

Also, Season 1 is probably my least favorite.  I don't get how folks love "33" or any of those early eps.  They're okay, but the series hit its stride in Season 2 (especially near the end) and the beggining of Season 3 on New Caprica (this stuff was awesome).  That's usually where I disagree with BSG fans.  To me, the first season does seem very low budget sci-fi in a lot of ways, whereas the later seasons transcend a lot of those genre conventions (although, we get some awful filler eps as a trade off).

[MrAngryFace]

no low budget sci fi is the first 4 seasons of stargate SG-1 lol.

Lucky for me I got into these show expecting TV sci fi, so I dont get all bent outta shape!

[The Fake Shemp]

Hey, I'm not bent out of shape.  It's a solid show, but really only in a lazy Sunday afternoon way.  It's non-offensive, it doesn't suck and it has its moments.  It's not something I'd go out of my way to watch, though.  It's good times while folding laundry or something.

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

To new television viewers:  Stories are generally conceived thematically.  This means that their ending is developed long before their ending.  Shit like Lost, The X-Files, and Battlestar is clearly vice-versa--garbage made up as it goes along. 

I'm still holding on to hope that the guys behind Lost actually have some sort of idea where they're going with all this.  They say they do but after rewatching the series from S1 to S3 you really have to wonder.

[APF]

[T]he series hit its stride in Season 2 (especially near the end) and the beggining of Season 3 on New Caprica (this stuff was awesome).

New Caprica == total awesome, but then it all goes to shit, transitioning into a boring episodic soap opera snoozefest.  High expectations for the fourth season though, since if it actually airs it'll be the last and they probably know where they're going at this point.

I know people are terrified of an X-Files-ization when they start watching, but there are basically just two questions in the show: do they get to Earth, and WTF is up with Baltar.  

[Bloodwake]

Yeah, it comes nowhere near TNG or the undisputed champion, Doctor Who

[recursivelyenumerable]

To new television viewers:  Stories are generally conceived thematically.  This means that their ending is developed long before their ending.  Shit like Lost, The X-Files, and Battlestar is clearly vice-versa--garbage made up as it goes along.

Has there ever been a TV show (which ran for more than a season) that was satisfying from beginning to end as a complete story?  I think making things up as you go along is more appropriate for TV honestly, because you can't necessarily predict which characters and plot elements are going to work in advance (it depends a lot on acting, chemistry, visuals).  You need flexibility to make adjustments as you go, so if an actor's portrayal of a character turns out unexpectedly great you can incorporate new ideas to exploit that, etc.  Babylon 5 was planned in advance and probably the performances and chemistry suffer for it (e.g. we're supposed to buy Bruce Boxleitner as a tortured messiah figure), and in the end its five-year arc didn't come through intact anyway because of actors leaving and fear of cancellation.

With shows like X-Files and Lost the "sense of mystery" is more important than the actual mystery.  They're meant to tap into people's free-floating anxiety and paranoia, the details aren't really that important.

[TVC15]

To new television viewers:  Stories are generally conceived thematically.  This means that their ending is developed long before their ending.  Shit like Lost, The X-Files, and Battlestar is clearly vice-versa--garbage made up as it goes along.

Has there ever been a TV show (which ran for more than a season) that was satisfying from beginning to end as a complete story? 

There are at least a few, although there will be caveats in any honest answer.  For example, The Prisoner is complete and satisfying, even if the end is a nutter, plu sit's an old ass show.  If there is one example, there are at least five more. 

How did it go from being decent to being shit?

I know as a Republican, you have difficulty grasping questions like "what is quality?  What is adequate?"  For those of us with taste, mediocrity is generally worse than being flat out bad.  For example, I will take a half dozen Uwe films over one The Departed.  Being adequately bad can give as much identity as being good.  Battlestar, by being criminally middle-of-the-road, just feels like SciFi Channel's Generic SciFi:  The Series.  The show is completely boring and mediocre, as terrible as media can ever dream of being.

[Mandark]

To new television viewers:  Stories are generally conceived thematically.  This means that their ending is developed long before their ending.  Shit like Lost, The X-Files, and Battlestar is clearly vice-versa--garbage made up as it goes along.

Has there ever been a TV show (which ran for more than a season) that was satisfying from beginning to end as a complete story?  I think making things up as you go along is more appropriate for TV honestly, because you can't necessarily predict which characters and plot elements are going to work in advance (it depends a lot on acting, chemistry, visuals).  You need flexibility to make adjustments as you go, so if an actor's portrayal of a character turns out unexpectedly great you can incorporate new ideas to exploit that, etc.  Babylon 5 was planned in advance and probably the performances and chemistry suffer for it (e.g. we're supposed to buy Bruce Boxleitner as a tortured messiah figure), and in the end its five-year arc didn't come through intact anyway because of actors leaving and fear of cancellation.

With shows like X-Files and Lost the "sense of mystery" is more important than the actual mystery.  They're meant to tap into people's free-floating anxiety and paranoia, the details aren't really that important.

Quoted in full cause it's a good post.

British and premium cable shows have done very good long-term plot arcs in the past, but those are usually contained in a single season.  Writers can only plan as far ahead as they're guaranteed to air, and that guarantee rarely goes beyond a year (if that long).

It's probably why doctor/cop/lawyer shows are so popular.  Besides the inherent drama they bring, they're perfect for a fluid medium.  Cast changes are easy to manage, and finding new conflicts is as easy as importing a new patient/crime/case.

I'd like to see more epic (lengthwise) storytelling, but I've known as far back as The Pirates of Darkwater that it's hard to pull off.

Also, I agree about X-Files totally.  That raises the question of whether it's possible to make a show like that which isn't doomed to wretchedness a few years down the line.  At some point, the creators will feel as if they have to explain things, right?

[TVC15]

The thing that pisses me off most about TXF is that you can clearly tell by looking over all the seasons that there was no point at which it was originally intended to end.  Most shows that get the drag out treatment, you can usually get an idea of where the original story was originally supposed to end, but from TXF, it was fairly obvious that they Had No Idea from as early as season 3.

I love the show, but it really is the worst in the school of making it up as we go along in television.  Well, I probably shouldn't say that until we see how Lost bombas.

[Eel O'Brian]

I listened to the Lost podcast last season (hahaha, yeah I know, pathetic, stfu), and I really do think they know exactly how it ends, and have a grip on the key plot points, but the problem was they had to stretch it out to fulfill contractual season episode quotas.  I like even the "filler" episodes, so it didn't bother me, but I can see where everyone's complaints come from.  I think it'll zip along for these last 48 episodes, barring any cast mutinies or plummetting ratings.

[ToxicAdam]

I used to watch bad sci-fi for Jeri Ryans TITTAY'S. So, I'm not going to cast any stones in here.

[recursivelyenumerable]

I think by now the Lost writers have a fairly good idea how the last few seasons are going to play out, but they definitely didn't back when the show started.

[Mandark]

I remember watching TXF as group appointment TV when it was new, and the realization dawning on everyone gradually but simultaneously that Cris Carter was winging it.

Which was okay for a couple years, but at some point (the movie?) it became really obviously unsustainable.  You could tell because you learned to dread the mythology episodes, which you used to look forward to during the first couple seasons.

[TVC15]

I listened to the Lost podcast last season (hahaha, yeah I know, pathetic, stfu), and I really do think they know exactly how it ends, and have a grip on the key plot points, but the problem was they had to stretch it out to fulfill contractual season episode quotas.  I like even the "filler" episodes, so it didn't bother me, but I can see where everyone's complaints come from.  I think it'll zip along for these last 48 episodes, barring any cast mutinies or plummetting ratings.

Yeah, i really shouldn't pick on Lost.  I haven't seen past the first 10 episodes of season 2, and it seems like the showrunners realized they nearly killed the show with season 2, and judging from what people have said about 3, it sounds like they have picked up the pieces, made lemonade.  I bet once they realized that the show was on the brink, they figured out a pretty clear road map.

Mandark:

I think the movie was the tipping point as well.  After that, and even a significant portion of season 5 (and the movie itself), the show was based around snowblinding the viewer with the boring conspiracists shit.  Setting up faction after faction of similarly dressed boring old dude just didn't have the immediacy of the earlier conspiracies and stories.  It was like having to DO YOUR TAXES after a solid several months of spending irresponsibly.  It just killed the show's momentum.

[border]

I don't think you'll like BSG very much because it doesn't have very many compelling characters (Adama and Baltair are probably the only ones).  It's kind of unfair to compare it to an HBO show that has a much slower production schedule too.

I would rank it alongside Doctor Who for currently-in-production science fiction shows.  Both Who and BSG have some pretty shitty low points, but with BSG it  will just seem more protracted since they had to make like 20 episodes/season.

[bluemax]

I lost a lot of interest in BSG when I realized that all the major plot points occur because the characters are fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellows.

[TVC15]

I lost a lot of interest in BSG when I realized that all the major plot points occur because the characters are fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellows.

Highschoolstar Teentactica?

[Oblivion]

I'd like to see more epic (lengthwise) storytelling, but I've known as far back as The Pirates of Darkwater that it's hard to pull off.

Fuck yeah!   One of the best mature cartoons ever. A shame they never finished it.  :'(


I like BSG, but it's not really my type of show (too serious for my tastes). I would vastly prefer Dr. Who to BSG, BUT THAT'S JUST ME.

[rodi]

BSG>Stargate: Atlantis.

...and not only because Grace Park is hot! Although I love both series and watch both like a fiend I have to agree with Willco when he said that Stargate tends to be kind of SCIFI trashy lighting, humor, CG, blah blah blah. The quality of BSG is just a notch above.

[Tauntaun]

Babylon 5 & Firefly > *

[Eric P]

i've never watched any of the stargates.  is it worth tossing a season of one into the netflix queue?

[MrAngryFace]

watch stargate atlantis season 1, it had a much higher budget than SG-1 season 1 lol. I tend to prefer both tho since im a fan lol

Babylon 5 is ok, but it really doesnt hit its stride till season 3 and 4, then it fizzles in 5. The movies are good, but a lot of the drama that made the show appealing back then seems kinda over the top sometimes. Still, the characters are great, especially Londo and G'Kar. And firefly, well thats a Sacred Cow. I love it, but I realize it never had the chance to mistep, which is probably why its so good. Still, Objects in Space was probably the closest it came to a bad episode.

[Eric P]

done