I am about to watch Tideland

[TVC15]

Seems to be a love it or hate it movie.  Roeper from Ebert and Roeper almost walked out of it.  Well, here, read for yourself:

Gilliam has also said that Michael Palin, another former member of Monty Python, had told him that the film was either the best thing he had ever done, or the worst — although Palin himself couldn’t quite decide either way[10].

Entertainment Weekly critic Owen Gleiberman — who had previously scored Gilliam's The Brothers Grimm a "C+"[11], Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas a "D+"[12], The Fisher King a "C"[13] — gave Tideland an "F"[14], calling it "gruesomely awful".

In the subsequent review of the DVD release, Gleiberman's fellow Entertainment Weekly critic Clark Collis gave the film a "B"[15] and stated: "Terry Gilliam's grim fairy tale is another fantastic(al) showcase for his visual talents."[16]

The film received a "two thumbs way down" rating from Richard Roeper and guest critic A.O. Scott on the television show Ebert & Roeper. Scott said that toward the end, the film was "creepy, exploitive, and self-indulgent", while Roeper said "I hated this film" and "I came very close to walking out of the screening room. And I never do that." [17]

The former Chicago Tribune critic Michael Wilmington[18], however, praised the film[19] further stating that "...it's crazy, dangerous and sometimes gorgeous..."[20], and Harry Knowles of Ain't It Cool News wrote, "TIDELAND, for me, is a masterpiece," a blurb featured on the DVD release[21].

Filmmaker David Cronenberg described the movie as a "poetic horror film," a quote which was used in the advertising campaign for the theatrical release[22].

Filmmaker Rian Johnson named Tideland and The Fountain as his favorite films of 2006.[23]

In the July 16, 2007 online edition of Independent Film Channel News, Michael Atkinson published a comparative film review of Harry Kümel's rarely seen Malpertuis (1971) and Tideland. Atkinson posits that a historical perspective has made Kümel's previously scorned film a more viable creation when far removed from the cultural context in which it was first released. He goes on to argue that Tideland could be the 21st century counterpart to Malpertuis, suggesting that Gilliam's film "is a snark-hunted freak just waiting for its historical moment, decades from now, when someone makes a case for it as a neglected masterpiece."[24]

Sounds like, at worst, it will be an interesting watch.

[Ichirou]

You enjoyed Caligula, so I'm sure you'll find something redeeming about this movie too.  You've got an enviable skill for picking out the gold hidden amongst the dross.

[TVC15]

You enjoyed Caligula, so I'm sure you'll find something redeeming about this movie too.  You've got an enviable skill for picking out the gold hidden amongst the dross.

I am sure I will like it, if only because I love Terry Gilliam.  If he makes a love it or hate it picture, I'll probably end up on the love side of things just because I kind of understand where he's coming from.  Let's not forget that for the most part, he [i[exclusively[/i] makes audience-splitting movies.

[Ichirou]

You made me actually reconsider Eyes Wide Shut which I've always viewed as a rather mediocre movie on the whole, so I'm looking forward to your thoughts on Tideland.

[Phoenix Dark]

I remember seeing the trailer and really being impressed. Then I started hearing horrible things about the movie so it fell off my radar.

[TVC15]

You made me actually reconsider Eyes Wide Shut which I've always viewed as a rather mediocre movie on the whole, so I'm looking forward to your thoughts on Tideland.

This is actually pretty interesting so far.  Have you seen it yet?

[Ichirou]

Yah, I saw it last year.  I was undecided on it.  It's delightfully freaky in a lot of respects, but parts of it made me very uncomfortable.  The closest I can compare it to is how I first felt when I saw Satyricon, though for wholly different reasons.  I won't spoil it till you finish watching.

[TVC15]

Yah, I saw it last year.  I was undecided on it.  It's delightfully freaky in a lot of respects, but parts of it made me very uncomfortable.  The closest I can compare it to is how I first felt when I saw Satyricon, though for wholly different reasons.  I won't spoil it till you finish watching.

I probably won't finish it til tomorrow. 

Wait, does this mean you are mixed on Satyricon?

[Joe Molotov]

I think losing Don Quixote must have broken Terry Gilliam's spirit. How else could you go from making Twelve Monkeys to making that turd Brothers Grimm? I'd like to blame Hollywood producers for somehow messing it up, but that movie was just crap through and through. After reading the reviews for Tideland, I've been too afraid to even watch it.

[Ichirou]

I am mixed on all movies that make me feel weird, unidentifiable emotions.  Doesn't help that Satyricon was the first Fellini movie I saw when I was the BK Beast's age, so I avoided his stuff for YEARS due to the freakout.

Add Irreversible to that list.

[TVC15]

I think losing Don Quixote must have broken Terry Gilliam's spirit. How else could you go from making Twelve Monkeys to making that turd Brothers Grimm? I'd like to blame Hollywood producers for somehow messing it up, but that movie was just crap through and through. After reading the reviews for Tideland, I've been too afraid to even watch it.

He did The Brothers Grimm for the money, and he left the movie late in production when they wouldn't do things his way.

Nobody will give Gilliam money.  He has to do shit like The Brothers Grimm if he wants to get his personal shit made.  Of course, now he's fucked again

In interviews included on the DVD edition of Tideland Gilliam says agreeing to direct The Brothers Grimm helped him to line up financing for Tideland.

He also met Heath while making The Brothers Grimm.  Little did he know that would DOOM his future project.

[Ichirou]

The shame is that Gilliam's films require lotsa money for the imagery he loves to create, so it's not like he can just switch to super-low-budget productions.

What're your feelings on Satyricon?  The biggest knock I have against it nowadays is that it's so episodic.  That and the albino hermaphrodite and the little sex slave dude the protagonist spends the first half of the film trying to get back.

[TVC15]

The shame is that Gilliam's films require lotsa money for the imagery he loves to create, so it's not like he can just switch to super-low-budget productions.

His new movie actually had his biggest budget ever. . .at a paltry 30 million (note: not counting Grimm since that was a Hollywood picture).  You want to know how bad inflation is?  Brazil only cost 15 million, and look at that, FUCK.  That would have cost a fortune had Hollywood made it.

What're your feelings on Satyricon?  The biggest knock I have against it nowadays is that it's so episodic.  That and the albino hermaphrodite and the little sex slave dude the protagonist spends the first half of the film trying to get back.

I think it is totally weird and indulgent, but if one director could make a career out of making totally indulgent films, it was Fellini.  Insane movie if you are into visuals.  I just bought it a few weeks back, have yet to watch it again.

[Ichirou]

Imagine being the Dark Shake's age and going from watching Star Wars and Regarding Henry to watching Satyricon.  One of my university professors lent it to me.

[TVC15]

Imagine being the Dark Shake's age and going from watching Star Wars and Regarding Henry to watching Satyricon.  One of my university professors lent it to me.

Have you ever seen Salo?  I don't think anything could ever make me uncomfortable after that.

[Smooth Groove]

TVC,  why do you like Gilliam so much?  I don't know much about the man or his films.  Fisher King was on HD cable last week but I skipped it since it only got 2 stars in the description.  

[The Fake Shemp]

I refuse to watch Salo.

Gilliam is an interesting director, but I'm not enough of a fanboy to sit through something that's been as panned as Tideland.  He's kind of lost me and has dropped off my radar.  He's just not relevant anymore.

[TVC15]

TVC,  why do you like Gilliam so much?  I don't know much about the man or his films.  Fisher King was on HD cable last week but I skipped it since it only got 2 stars in the description. 

Pythonesque sense of humor.  All of his films have their own thought-out visual style.  Likes to make highly imaginative fantasy movies, while at the same time making movies only for adults.  I hate to throw out descriptions like this, but he is kind of like Tim Burton with a bit more substance.

Willco:

Salo's an interesting movie.  It's more of an art film than it is an exploitation flick.  The most terrifying thing about it is that Pasolini pulls it off.

Cronenberg likes Tideland.  That's enough to get me to watch.  Well, that and Roeper wanting to walk out of the theatre.  You find it difficult to understand that a director that has made several audience-splitting movies has made yet another?

[Ichirou]

Imagine being the Dark Shake's age and going from watching Star Wars and Regarding Henry to watching Satyricon.  One of my university professors lent it to me.

Have you ever seen Salo?  I don't think anything could ever make me uncomfortable after that.

I've heard and read about it, but the Criterion edition is long out of print.  I have seen other Pasolini films (The Canterbury Tales and The Decameron), and they seemed very crude on a technical level.  I didn't watch them subtitled so I can't confidently comment on anything else (this was back when I was studying Italian in college).

[The Fake Shemp]

Eh, I think Gilliam has more range than Burton and is probably a more talented director on a technical level, but Gilliam is far more hit or miss than Burton.  And when Gilliam misses, he misses hard.

[etiolate]

I like Gilliam, I like Caligula, I like weird and I did not like Tideland.

[TVC15]

Imagine being the Dark Shake's age and going from watching Star Wars and Regarding Henry to watching Satyricon.  One of my university professors lent it to me.

Have you ever seen Salo?  I don't think anything could ever make me uncomfortable after that.

I've heard and read about it, but the Criterion edition is long out of print.  I have seen other Pasolini films (The Canterbury Tales and The Decameron), and they seemed very crude on a technical level.  I didn't watch them subtitled so I can't confidently comment on anything else (this was back when I was studying Italian in college).

Pirate Salo.  The Criterion edition is a poor transfer.  It is tinted green and is missing footage.  Odd that the most expensive DVD isn't very good.

[The Fake Shemp]

Don't watch Salo! Save your virgin asshole!

[Ichirou]

Considering that it's otherwise unavailable, I wouldn't mind doing this if you'd point me to where to get it.

[TVC15]

Considering that it's otherwise unavailable, I wouldn't mind doing this if you'd point me to where to get it.

Actually, Pasolini is one of those directors that works with a set of themes throughout his career, and in some ways Salo is the ultimate and basest representation of some of his themes.  While you will definitely get it if you watched it, you will appreciate it even more if you start with earlier Pasolini flicks.

I suggest them in this order.  Note that I am only naming films I think are worthwhile:

Accattone - Inspired by working with Fellini during his neorealistic period, Pasolini MADE IT EVEN MORE NEOREAL

Teorema - The movies Sitcom and Miike's Vistor Q are reinterpretations of this movie.

Porcile - Pasolini and Leaud! <3

and then Salo.

Don't listen to anyone that tries to steer you away from Salo due to its imagery.  Truth be told, it's not a particularly graphic movie in any respect.  It is totally repugnant, though, and you will feel BAD and GUILTY, but that is what Pasolini intended.

I don't particularly like his Trilogy of Life movies (Canterbury, 1001, Decameron).  I have a feeling he did those to win favor with the public and financiers, since doing The Gospel According to Matthew saved his ass early in his career.

The Gospel According to Matthew was the only movie of his that had a US distro deal during the time it came out.  Some Christian film company licensed it.  It is actually considered one of the best bible movies.  Do you think the Christian film company would have been happy knowing that a gay atheist socialist directed it?

[Smooth Groove]

TVC,  why do you like Gilliam so much?  I don't know much about the man or his films.  Fisher King was on HD cable last week but I skipped it since it only got 2 stars in the description. 

Pythonesque sense of humor.  All of his films have their own thought-out visual style.  Likes to make highly imaginative fantasy movies, while at the same time making movies only for adults.  I hate to throw out descriptions like this, but he is kind of like Tim Burton with a bit more substance.

Sounds like a Jules Jordan of mainstream films. 

[Ichirou]

Canterbury and Decameron were, like, American Pie in the Middle Ages.  Okay, not that bad - Animal House, mebbe.

[TVC15]

Canterbury and Decameron were, like, American Pie in the Middle Ages.  Okay, not that bad - Animal House, mebbe.

But the Trilogy of Life were hits because of the copious amounts of nudity in them. Argh, I can't finish this post because it would take away from aspects of experiencing his movies.

Also, keep in mind that Pasolini wasn't a filmmaker first.  That was one of many titles he held.  I wish more of his books and poems were available in America.  Watching his movies, you see that he was a merchant of ideas.  Sometimes his movies weren't strong enough ships to keep those ideas aloft, but he usually gets what he wants across, or he at least gets the viewer thinking.

In this way, the end of Salo makes me think that he sort of intended that to be his last movie.  I don't want to spoil, though.

[Ichirou]

The other films you mentioned, are they available in the US? I can watch Italian stuff without subtitles but I usually only grasp like 70% of the dialogue (immediately reduced to 0% if it's in a regional dialect like Salvatore Giuliano).

[TVC15]

The other films you mentioned, are they available in the US? I can watch Italian stuff without subtitles but I usually only grasp like 70% of the dialogue (immediately reduced to 0% if it's in a regional dialect like Salvatore Giuliano).

All the ones I have mentioned should be readily available in the US. . .but don't count on your video store to carry them.  Momma Roma is also supposed to be good--it is a Criterion release--but I have not yet seen it.

Pasolini usually did not work with professional actors, instead casting people that he felt fit the roles. The performances in his movies usually feel pretty authentic, if stiff at times.

[Ichirou]

Being a fan of Italian neorealism, that's something that won't bother me at all.

[TVC15]

Being a fan of Italian neorealism, that's something that won't bother me at all.

I also hate saying this because deep down I believe that each piece of art should be judged on its own merits, but doing a bit of reading up on Pasolini might also help you get into him.  He wasn't a very typical guy by any stretch.

[Ichirou]

Oh, I've already read a bit about him, I came across him while I was studying the history of Italian cinema a few years back.  I've got a rough idea of what he was about, at any rate.

[bluemax]

My GF and I watched Tideland this summer. One of the few times I've ever paused a movie to take a break because it was wearing on me so much emotionally. I thought it was a pretty good movie, and thankfully didn't go quite as far with some stuff as my imagination thought it might at a few points.

Actually since meeting my GF I watched Tideland, 12 Monkeys and Fisher King for the first time, and rewatched Brasil, Time Bandits and Baron Munchausen.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Tideland was ok. I liked some of it, but alot of it was just ridiculous.

Seriously the dead bodies just got out of control.

[Eel O'Brian]

Harry Knowles of Ain't It Cool News wrote, "TIDELAND, for me, is a masterpiece," a blurb featured on the DVD release.

I refuse to buy anything which gives that fat distinguished mentally-challenged fellow even one iota of credibility.

Stop interviewing Harry Knowles, giving him cameos in your movies, and quoting him on your DVD boxes.  He's an idiot.

[Phoenix Dark]

Harry Knowles of Ain't It Cool News wrote, "TIDELAND, for me, is a masterpiece," a blurb featured on the DVD release.

I refuse to buy anything which gives that fat distinguished mentally-challenged fellow even one iota of credibility.

Stop interviewing Harry Knowles, giving him cameos in your movies, and quoting him on your DVD boxes.  He's an idiot.

He was watching some of the documentaries on the second Resevior Dogs DVD and he popped up. I had never heard him talking before. Not only is he HUGE, but he's disgusting and quite pretentious lol.

[Joe Molotov]

I think losing Don Quixote must have broken Terry Gilliam's spirit. How else could you go from making Twelve Monkeys to making that turd Brothers Grimm? I'd like to blame Hollywood producers for somehow messing it up, but that movie was just crap through and through. After reading the reviews for Tideland, I've been too afraid to even watch it.

He did The Brothers Grimm for the money, and he left the movie late in production when they wouldn't do things his way.

He did The Fisher King for the money too, but that movie wasn't completely horrible like The Brother Grimm was. I was hard pressed to find any redeeming value with Grimm.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

The Brothers Grimm is not actually that terrible.  When its bad, its bad in a sort of fascinating way, and when its not being bad its pretty funny and gorgeous to look at.  A bad Gilliam film is still better then most other popcorn friendly blockbusters I could name.

[Eel O'Brian]

I'm getting Baron Munchausen on Blu Ray when it comes out

[Bloodwake]

If TVC give it his approval, I might give it a shot.

I've watched so much recommended by TVC and it's paid off quite well (VIDEODROME OMG)

[The Fake Shemp]

Videodrome is something everyone should watch regardless of TVC's recommendation.

And I agree with HyperZone, in that The Brothers Grimm is entertaining in parts and not an abomination by any means.

[TVC15]

I got The Brothers Grimm in HD.  I think that was the HD movie equivalent of getting game system launch syndrome.  I don't really hate the movie, but I really doubt I will ever desire to see it again.

[chiller]

I saw Tideland the first day it came out on dvd.  Unfortunately it didn't get a theatrical release.

This movie is sick.  It preys on our biggest fears in America.  It will have you gripping the armrest of your couch when you watch it.  It's way too much for the average viewer to take.

The funniest part is reading the bad reviews for the film that mention all these things that didn't actually happen in the movie. Like I said the movie plays on our fears.  If you watch the movie a few times you'll realize that the main theme of the movie is innocence but you probably won't get that on your first viewing.

Tideland is a little different from Gilliam's other movies in that it isn't based around huge sets.  It has a more organic and natural look to it that Gilliam's other movies don't have.

A very polarizing classic.  More so than any other Gilliam film.  I loved it.

[Ichirou]

So what'd you end up thinking of Tideland, TVC?

[Bloodwake]

Videodrome is something everyone should watch regardless of TVC's recommendation.

And I agree with HyperZone, in that The Brothers Grimm is entertaining in parts and not an abomination by any means.

Pretty much, LONG LIVE THE NEW FLESH.

[TVC15]

So what'd you end up thinking of Tideland, TVC?

I am too sleepy tonight to finish it.  At this rate I will probably wait until Saturday.

[chiller]

Videodrome is something everyone should watch regardless of TVC's recommendation.

And I agree with HyperZone, in that The Brothers Grimm is entertaining in parts and not an abomination by any means.

Pretty much, LONG LIVE THE NEW FLESH.

All Hail The New Flesh
[youtube=425,350]TelfldsU-u8[/youtube]
Awesome song and Videodrome reference.

[bluemax]

So what'd you end up thinking of Tideland, TVC?

I am too sleepy tonight to finish it.  At this rate I will probably wait until Saturday.

This movie is too freaky to watch when not fully awake. Then again I haven't watched the same kind of cinema as you.

[TVC15]

So what'd you end up thinking of Tideland, TVC?

I am too sleepy tonight to finish it.  At this rate I will probably wait until Saturday.

This movie is too freaky to watch when not fully awake. Then again I haven't watched the same kind of cinema as you.

It's clearly a 1 sitting movie.  You either have to immerse yourself in the pov or you won't grok it.  I liked what I saw last night and I can understand why some people probably do not like it.  I'm going to give it a full sit through this weekend.

That little girl, though, I will say it right now, she's damned good in the movie.  The variety and weight of the material, and she handles it like a champ.  Also, Lebowski rox.