Author Topic: another school shooting  (Read 4493 times)

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hyp

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another school shooting
« on: February 14, 2008, 06:42:31 PM »
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23171567/

Quote
Gunman opens fire on Illinois campus

DEKALB, Ill. - A gunman opened fire Thursday in a lecture hall on the campus of Northern Illinois University, injuring as many as 15 people.

Police reported that the scene was secure and that the gunman was “no longer a threat” about an hour after the shooting, which occurred about 4 p.m. ET. They gave no official details, but police sources told NBC affiliate WMAQ of Chicago that the shooter may have taken his own life.

Ambulances and fire trucks raced to the scene of the shooting at Kohl Hall, and a spokesman at Kishwaukee Community Hospital in DeKalb told NBC News that area hospitals had been told “to expect up to 15 injured people from the campus.”

bububuub i thought all the terrorists were from the middle east!

pyh

Rman

  • Senior Member
Re: another school shooting
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2008, 06:52:46 PM »
 :'(

This is just getting crazy.  I loved college and its sad what these shootings may bring.  Hopefully, our lawmakers will stop kissing the gun lobby's ass.

hyp

  • Casual Gamer™
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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2008, 06:54:21 PM »
i fear for my kids. 
pyh

Powerslave

  • Senior Member
Re: another school shooting
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2008, 06:57:15 PM »
Stay out of school kids.

Rman

  • Senior Member
Re: another school shooting
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2008, 06:57:44 PM »
Yeah, I wouldn't want the next generation to study, live, and have fun in college campuses that are filled with metal detectors. 

hyp

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2008, 07:00:29 PM »
Stay out of school kids.

time to home-school college kids!
pyh

TVC15

  • Laugh when you can, it’s cheap medicine -LB
  • Senior Member
Re: another school shooting
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2008, 07:07:03 PM »
Stay out of school kids.

time to home-school college kids!

"That's ridiculous.  Of course our new fission reactor is safe. Even better, we were able to deliver it under budget after our lead engineer Maurice said we could scrap our plans for lead walls since his new whitepaper shows that JESUS MAJICK will shield us from any radiation."
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 07:10:10 PM by TVC 15 »
serge

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2008, 07:16:32 PM »
Great, another thing for my mom to nag over



Maurice are you wearing your long johns?

Maurice what time do you get out of class I forgot

Maurice don't wind up like Kwame

Maurice what do you want to do on your birthday

Maurice remember what my dad told me: don't take any wooden nickels today

Maurice why aren't you wearing a hat. Don't you know arthiritis is in the family

Maurice did you read the Bible today?

Maurice if you think someone has a gun on campus, don't be a hero. Just hide in the bathroom

010

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2008, 09:43:48 PM »
My mom went to school there. 

I really hope they don't start beefing up security on college campuses.  It would make life so much worse for sketchy characters like myself who spend all their time at university libraries posing as graduate students.  Actually, I guess I am more or less a home-schooled college kid.
QED

Ichirou

  • Merry Christmas
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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2008, 09:46:23 PM »
Maurice is too long.  I'd call PD M-Dawg if we ever met up.
PS4

brawndolicious

  • Nylonhilist
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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2008, 09:57:41 PM »
:'(

This is just getting crazy.  I loved college and its sad what these shootings may bring.  Hopefully, our lawmakers will stop kissing the gun lobby's ass.
that'll be pretty much impossible.  3 children died in a year from airbags and we got new regulations on airbags.  a hundred times that number died from shooting themselves in the same year and nothing happened.   people just don't want gun control.

warcock

  • Member
Re: another school shooting
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2008, 11:38:28 PM »
SWATS/MARINES/SF UNITS ON CAMPUS PLZ. M4A1 DETTERENTSSSSSSSSSSSS

Fresh Prince

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2008, 11:43:04 PM »
Maurice if you think someone has a gun on campus, don't be a hero. Just hide in the bathroom
Wrong advice!
The best defense against rampant gunmen is wearing concealed weapons on campus and attempting to shoot the perpetrator. Although since you're black, the police would shoot you first.
Plug some slugs into that bitch! :gun
888

warcock

  • Member
Re: another school shooting
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2008, 11:48:03 PM »
New law enforcement branch, something flashy and overly jargonic. Rapid psychotic noob tactical response unit. RPNTR
REPENTERS!111

OR OR OR WE COULD USE THESE!!!


xnikki118x

  • Hanson Defense Force
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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2008, 04:47:41 AM »
I just think these things are so sad. What if I went to school on Monday and someone shot up my 8-person Child Interventions class? My life is so unfinished.

At least nobody died, except the ass who tried to kill people.

It just ruins things for everyone else, you know? Kill yourself. Don't take others down with you.


ETA: Nevermind, apparently 5 people were killed and 16 wounded. Then the gunman killed himself.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 04:55:03 AM by xnikki118x »
:-*

Tauntaun

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2008, 02:55:22 PM »
death toll's up to 7  :(
:)

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2008, 02:58:21 PM »
Maurice if you think someone has a gun on campus, don't be a hero. Just hide in the bathroom
Wrong advice!
The best defense against rampant gunmen is wearing concealed weapons on campus and attempting to shoot the perpetrator. Although since you're black, the police would shoot you first.
Plug some slugs into that bitch! :gun

:lol

I've never understood the argument that school shootings wouldn't happen if students were allowed to carry guns on campus. How would you know who the shooter is, and who the vigilante is? It would only lead to more deaths
010

rodi

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2008, 04:11:23 PM »
Geez, I'm glad I went to the military instead of college. I'm much safer.

Oh wait.  :(

captainbiotch

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2008, 07:57:54 PM »
Maurice if you think someone has a gun on campus, don't be a hero. Just hide in the bathroom
Wrong advice!
The best defense against rampant gunmen is wearing concealed weapons on campus and attempting to shoot the perpetrator. Although since you're black, the police would shoot you first.
Plug some slugs into that bitch! :gun

:lol

I've never understood the argument that school shootings wouldn't happen if students were allowed to carry guns on campus. How would you know who the shooter is, and who the vigilante is? It would only lead to more deaths

The shooter is the one shooting random kids, distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2008, 08:04:52 PM »
Maurice if you think someone has a gun on campus, don't be a hero. Just hide in the bathroom
Wrong advice!
The best defense against rampant gunmen is wearing concealed weapons on campus and attempting to shoot the perpetrator. Although since you're black, the police would shoot you first.
Plug some slugs into that bitch! :gun

:lol

I've never understood the argument that school shootings wouldn't happen if students were allowed to carry guns on campus. How would you know who the shooter is, and who the vigilante is? It would only lead to more deaths

The shooter is the one shooting random kids, distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.

If everyone had guns there'd be fucking chaos
010

bud

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2008, 08:07:46 PM »
.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 08:16:26 PM by bud »
zzz

captainbiotch

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2008, 08:16:29 PM »
If everyone had guns the shooter would be dead in a split second.

If some people had guns, it might take a little longer.

You're clueless.  No one is saying put a gun in the hand of every moron that doesn't know what they are doing, such as yourself who can't comprehend how to differentiate between a good and bad guy.

The thing is, in todays fear mongering cowardly society, there are a lot of scared, stupid people such as yourself that would be incapable of handling the responsibility of carrying a firearm and using it effectively.  It requires the knowledge of proper safety, handling, and procedure for engaging someone who will harm you.  Most states with concealed carry require permits, they teach these things to you.  All anyone is saying is allow permit holders to carry their firearms into a classroom, and it would be like free security guards.  You can go ahead and fear monger about concealed carry permit holders, try to find some facts to back up your assertions though.

captainbiotch

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2008, 08:20:08 PM »
What about teachers and staff? What about older people taking classes?  What about people who put in the effort to get a permit and carry weapons responsibly and LEGALLY?  You're just ignorant and afraid.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: another school shooting
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2008, 08:22:23 PM »
Great, another thing for my mom to nag over



Maurice are you wearing your long johns?

Maurice what time do you get out of class I forgot

Maurice don't wind up like Kwame

Maurice what do you want to do on your birthday

Maurice remember what my dad told me: don't take any wooden nickels today

Maurice why aren't you wearing a hat. Don't you know arthiritis is in the family

Maurice did you read the Bible today?

Maurice if you think someone has a gun on campus, don't be a hero. Just hide in the bathroom


 :lol

does your mom really ask you these things
IYKYK

captainbiotch

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2008, 08:27:48 PM »
I'm afraid of every distinguished mentally-challenged fellow who can get their hands on a gun carrying it wherever they please.

Well that isn't legal in most of the United States, except Alaska.  Even then, people under 21 are restricted, as well as felons.  There hasn't been a problem here.  Gangbangers still shoot each other up, responsible citizens don't use them until necessary.

The only people who put in the effort of getting a concealed carry permit are those that want to defend themselves rationally and responsibly within the law.

captainbiotch

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2008, 08:38:02 PM »
Seems I'm way behind on concealed carry laws.  A majority of states have shall-issue concealed carry permits, which means as long as you aren't a felon they can't refuse to give you a permit.  Vermont has a law where anyone over the age of 16? can legally carry a concealed weapon as long as they aren't a felon.

Fresh Prince

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2008, 08:38:21 PM »
Students carrying weapons on campus is asking for trouble, though having staff doing so may be better. Though really campus security should be doing a better job in the first place.
888

brawndolicious

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2008, 08:41:20 PM »
captain, there isn't a single federal safety regulation for handguns.  not for safety's, locks, anything.  most people in the US don't even know that a handgun can still be loaded with the magazine removed.  looking at accidental shooting rates, we'd save more people by just banning guns for all normal citizens.

if you want to carry a concealed handgun, you need a specific holster (guns have fallen out of pockets and shot people), training classes, and proof that you have all the correct trigger locks and whatnot for storing it in your home.  otherwise, fuck you rambo.  no gun for u.

brawndolicious

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2008, 08:53:53 PM »
I got it all out of a book.  yes, the book is pro-gun control CB.  Personally, I would just want the second amendment repealed and replaced with one that says you can have a gun for self-protection.  that would at least get rid of things like assault rifles that are useless.  we also need federal safety regulations but that's just as impossible as repealing the second amendment since some people like to have "freedom" with their guns while they're jacking off on the newest rubber grip released for the glock.

back on topic, there's no way you can assume the average person would pull out their gun, flip off the safety, and shoot accurately in a situation like that.

captainbiotch

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2008, 09:44:32 PM »
Most people are stupid, I agree.  I have no problem with taking away peoples right to carry when they fuck up by being over aggressive or under responsible.  What I don't agree with are assertions that people don't deserve the right to protect themselves because other people abuse it, to me that is like saying no one should be allowed to drive because lots of people choose to do it intoxicated.

There is a huge problem of firearm ignorance, I agree am_.  I grew up in a family where there were guns everywhere, and I've had a bb gun as long as I could remember that I was entrusted to be responsible with, and I've been carrying shotguns and rifles at my summer cabin since I was 11 or 12.  Gun safety has always been a huge deal to me and to see someone being irresponsible with a firearm and treating it like a toy is extremely angering to me.  The basics are so simple, never point it at anyone or anything you don't want to kill, always check the chamber to make sure it is empty before you do anything else.  But how do you instill people with values and common sense through law?  Preventable deaths will always happen because people make mistakes, are ignorant, malicious, or whatever.  It comes with the territory of being a free society.  What it boils down to is how many freedoms are you going to give up because people can't stop doing bad shit?  I'd rather live in a society where good people were allowed to defend themselves while bad people did their usual shit than one where good people were always at the mercy of bad people.

Concealed carry laws are being enacted for a reason.  Violent crime goes down in states where they are allowed.  There are hundreds and hundreds of cases where people have successfully defended themselves from perpetrators, and studies show that there are hundreds of thousands more stories where criminals turn away because someone might be armed or a gun was pulled out by the defender and they didn't have to shoot.  Look at the statistics of home invasion in America compared to say... the UK.  Criminals don't want to get shot and violence is avoided.  

Sure there is a lot of murder in the US, but by who?  

The rates of firearms deaths in the U.S. vary significantly by race and sex. The U.S. national average was 10.3 deaths per 100,000 population in 2001. The highest rate was 34.5/100,000 for African-American males, more than double the rate of 16.3/100,000 for white males and well above the rate of 2.7/100,000 for white females. (CDC, 2004)

This is primarily a problem of drug prohibition and violent people that should be restricted from firearm ownership and tossed into jail for a long long time.  In this country we let violent people back onto the street because prisons are overcrowded.  We have a failing justice system, not an epidemic of normal people getting their hands on a gun and becoming uncontrollable killing machines.  

Accidental deaths were about 800 in 2001.  Certainly worth addressing but not out of control.  Numbers have been falling due to safety regulations and increased persecution of people that pull triggers.  Most people just accidentally shoot themselves.
"Another study showed that two-thirds of accidental firearms injuries occured in the home, and one-third involved children under 15. 45% were self-inflicted, and 16% occurred when children were playing with guns. (Morrow and Hudson, 1986) A study from 1991-2000 showed that twice as many people died from unintentional firearm injuries in states in the U.S. where firearm owners were more likely to store their firearms loaded. (Miller, et al, 2005)"

A lot of statistics are inflated by including suicide deaths, which were 16000 people in 2001, and failed attempts, which were very high.  Suicide in America is still lower than most of the developed world though, including places where guns are banned.

Driving is a part of everyones lives.  The problem with car accidents is directly comparable to the problem with guns.  Every person that accidently shoots someone or goes out and kills a group of people is just like the person that was on their cell phone or was drunk or speeding and killed someone.  I don't want to live in an America where I have to blow into a breathalizer every time I start up my car, there are cell phone scramblers running while in gear, and I had to undergo a psych evaluation to buy a vehicle.  Lots of liberals want to force this onto gun owners though.  To what end though?  When do you stop encroaching on freedom so people can feel a little safer and shine their do-gooder shields?

captainbiotch

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2008, 09:48:05 PM »
as a eurofag with absolute zero knowledge of guns, gun culture or any exposure to guns (other than having one drawn on us in India) this all seems so baffling.

Having people have pretty easy access to guns just seems crazy to us. It can only lead to one thing, especially in the hands of people not socially mature enough.

lol - i also envisage people trying to take down a killer resulting in some cackhanded mass slaughter where no one can tell who the original shooter is until 200 pupils have sunk round after round into each other in mass confusion.

Why isn't America uncontrolled chaos then? Most states allow people to carry concealed weapons, why don't these confused distinguished mentally-challenged people shootouts happen every day?

Your reality about guns is dominated by fear and irrationality.

Powerslave

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2008, 10:22:38 PM »
My favorite game is Counter strike Half Life.

1.6?

captainbiotch

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2008, 10:31:33 PM »
Thats what I love, people that are ignorant but still have strong opinions!

People aren't allowed to defend themselves in schools, thats the whole issue that is being discussed.

Any shooting is a problem.  Any murder is a problem.  Any suicide is a problem.  Any violent act is a problem.  These are PEOPLE problems.  Mentally unstable people, violent people.  Instead of dealing with these issues you resort to OMG I CANT FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEAL WITH IT JUST TAKE AWAY GUNS FROM EVERYONE.  The logical conclusion of their reality is that we should all be living in padded rooms with food dispensers and a tv screen.  It is denying rights because you can't figure out some basic fucking causation and deal with it like a rational being.

Taking away guns doesn't solve the problem of violent hateful people one bit.  All you've managed to do is deny everyone a right and let the trickle down affect play out in some statistics.  Taking away guns in one specific area only makes that target that much more tempting for mass murder and crime.  Look at Washington D.C.  Look at school shootings.  Then the liberal answer is more bag searches, more paid guards, more security cameras, more fear and paranoia.

The problem really is violent and stupid people are all too willing to carry guns, and everyone else is a coward or just too lazy or just in denial about the fact that they might have to defend themselves someday.

captainbiotch

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2008, 11:09:25 PM »
Quote
Any shooting is a problem.  Any murder is a problem.  Any suicide is a problem.  Any violent act is a problem.  These are PEOPLE problems.  Mentally unstable people, violent people.  Instead of dealing with these issues you resort to OMG I CANT FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEAL WITH IT JUST TAKE AWAY GUNS FROM EVERYONE.


and how the hell is tooling everyone up a solution either?

then you are asking people to police themselves and act as judge, jury and executioner.

I simply can't fathom this out - it just strikes me as an equally bullshit solution.

I personally don't think there IS a solution - the US is fucked in this regard. It's too late to fix.

Quote
The problem really is violent and stupid people are all too willing to carry guns

...  but can you at least see that as an outside from a pretty violent neck of England with very high violent crime , but a NEAR ZERO gun crime stat that the fact that violent and stupid people -can- get guns in the first place seems to be part of that issue?

So educate me - i'm a 33 professional white male with cash. What steps would i need to go through in the US to get a weapon and what training/documentation/credentials am i required to produce?

What weapons do i legitimately have access to?

Merely arming people doesn't necessarily solve anything.  A lot of the time when legitimate citizens pull a gun on a criminal, the criminal runs, no shots fired.  That criminal is free to strike again against someone that isn't armed.  What it does solve is the victimization of that particular person, and if that person happens to kill a scumbag, NET WIN.  Only removing bad people from society solves anything, sure killing/incapacitating people that attack you isn't the ideal solution, but the cops aren't always around to protect you and they don't solve a whole shitload of cases.  Only a better justice system, more proactive protection by citizens, and better policing solves anything. 

In the case of school shootings, I can't imagine a whole lot of individuals opting to carry weapons.  I can imagine a few professors and staff, and a few students, and a few dumbfucks.  A serious school shooter is going to get off a few shots before someone can respond, but that can mean the difference between mass slaughter and 1 or 2 people dead.  Or maybe no one responds, because no one wants to carry.  These days no society preaches much individual responsibility. Overall, the law still deals with dumbfucks and killers, so why is putting guns in the hands of good people a bad thing?  The only answer I see presented is this ridiculous 40 way shootout business, where no one has the reasoning skills to tell good guy from bad guy.  In that case, STILL, you have irresponsible dumbfucks shooting recklessly, and the law is meant to deal with those.  No one is saying letting dumb vigilates off the hook.  They are saying let responsible people have the RIGHT and punish those who abuse the system, the way things should work in a free lawful society.

A real solution?  Be ruthless about keeping guns out of the hands of ex felons, people that have proven themselves to be violent, and if they violate it send them to jail for a long ass time.  Make gun crime such a bad idea that it legitimately acts as a deterrent.  Persecute violent people to a greater extent than happens today because our system is too full of weed dealers to actually fit in people that physically harm and destroy people.  Get rid of drug prohibition, crack down on domestic violence, and persecute illegitimate gun possessers, and I would be willing to BANBET murder falls 50%

dcharlie, why would I worry if you had a machine gun and a case of hand grenades?  I don't think you'd ever harm someone like that.  I'd know whos house to go to during a muslim riot or zombie outbreak.  The real question is, how do you keep these out of the hands of the mentally ill and violent people without destroying the rights of legitimate people?  How do you make laws that encourage responsibility?

Oblivion

  • Senior Member
Re: another school shooting
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2008, 11:10:43 PM »
2nd amendment. :bow :bow

:usa

brawndolicious

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2008, 11:18:22 PM »
dcharlie, that depends on your state.  california doesn't let you carry a concealed handgun I believe and I think you can also only buy a shotgun until your 21 at which point you could buy a handgun.

CB, we mostly agree on everything but there HAS to be a hell of a lot more safety measures put on guns.  For 50 years car manufacturers were able to get away with saying that it was driver error that caused people to die.  Even though the driver may have done something wrong, I wouldn't want them to die or kill other people because the car manufacturer wanted to make a few more bucks.

The problem with guns and suicide is that guns offer an instant way to commit suicide.  that's why a psyche test, or at least a way to keep guns far out of the hands of depressed teenagers, is a good idea.  many people who had a failed suicide attempt say that they decided to about 5 minutes beforehand to do it, and they all say they are glad they failed.  in the US, guns are also the number one way by which suicide is attempted (guns also have an 80% success rate while other methods have an average of about 27%).  a psyche test every 5 years just helps screen out people who may hurt themselves or others and really isn't a huge deal.

while cars are dangerous, they are also a tool and hardly designed (especially with all their modern safety features) well for suicide.  besides, what lengths should we then go to when it comes to carrying a gun while intoxicated?  I personally think that should be comparable with a DUI because even if you are trying to use it in a legal way, you might fuck up.  I would sympathize if it's a life or death situation that you need to have the gun to protect yourself but if your drinking, it's most likely not.

the US is the only industrialized democracy where guns are the main way of committing homicides.  when you consider that mexican drug cartels cross the border to US gun shows to buy guns from private dealers, it's obvious we don't effective enough gun control.  I mean, when you go to a ghetto area in the US you can see gun show signs everywhere for a reason.  people go there to get a gun without any registration or anything.  and somehow that is legal.  YOU know how to handle and maintain guns but the fact of the matter is, a murderer can very easily obtain a gun and so we need to have gun control.  I don't get what you're talking about making laws that encourage responsibility.  I just want comparable safety standards on the gun industry that we put on the car industry.

captainbiotch

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2008, 11:18:27 PM »
The sad thing about todays current state of affairs is that responsible rational people have become so rare that we can no longer gear laws encouraging the social dominance of these people and instead must gear laws towards individuals who are apparently too dumb and ignorant and lazy to put their pants on properly.  Long live the mediocre.

brawndolicious

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2008, 11:19:58 PM »
The sad thing about todays current state of affairs is that responsible rational people have become so rare that we can no longer gear laws encouraging the social dominance of these people and instead must gear laws towards individuals who are apparently too dumb and ignorant and lazy to put their pants on properly.  Long live the mediocre.
yeah, that's the reality of a device that kills people with the pull of a trigger. :shock

captainbiotch

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2008, 11:54:07 PM »
The only safety innovation that is going to have a real impact on guns is cheap biometric scanners integrated into the guns. 

What I mean about laws encouraging responsibility is gearing laws to encourage responsible behaviors, and punish those who are irresponsible.  Like intoxication laws, or speeding, or whatever.  Not taking away rights of everyone because some people choose to abuse things and remain ignorant.

Psyche tests? Cmon.  May as well psyche test to be allowed to live freely in America, seeing how you can get raped, assaulted, and whatever else too.  Freedom is better than living in a paranoid police state.  How about dealing with the causes of depression, violence, and various mental illnesses?

Suicidal people kill themselves.  Lots of them keep trying till it works.  America has lower suicide than most developed nations. 

I'm down for cracking down on anyone that sells weapons to felons.  I think the gun show problem is way overblown though.  Criminals will always get their hands on guns as long as guns exist.  Criminals need to be spending more time in jail, and jail needs to be spitting back out reformed individuals, not more hardened criminals, that is what is what.  Guns don't kill people, people kill people, deal with the real problem, BAD PEOPLE.

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: another school shooting
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2008, 11:59:24 PM »
Quote
Any shooting is a problem.  Any murder is a problem.  Any suicide is a problem.  Any violent act is a problem.  These are PEOPLE problems.  Mentally unstable people, violent people.  Instead of dealing with these issues you resort to OMG I CANT FIGURE OUT HOW TO DEAL WITH IT JUST TAKE AWAY GUNS FROM EVERYONE.  The logical conclusion of their reality is that we should all be living in padded rooms with food dispensers and a tv screen.

Could you tell me what system of logic you're using?  I'd like to verify this with Coq.
QED

captainbiotch

  • (jk i'm his wife, he's a dick)
  • Member
Re: another school shooting
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2008, 12:01:10 AM »
Liberal logic.

captainbiotch

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  • Member
Re: another school shooting
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2008, 12:08:34 AM »
The logic of fear and government paternalism.  Of controlling everyones lives because some people do dumb/bad shit and it is the duty of government to protect people from not just others, but themselves.  Seizing peoples property because you think you know how to spend it better.  Taking away their guns because some people choose to kill.  Getting rid of free speech and innocent until proven guilty and torturing people because the mighty government knows better than pathetic individuals, and anyway, none of us have rights, SOCIAL CONTRACT.  Forcing people to pay for others health, and wealth.  The entirety of socialist dogma.

brawndolicious

  • Nylonhilist
  • Senior Member
Re: another school shooting
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2008, 12:40:11 AM »
The only safety innovation that is going to have a real impact on guns is cheap biometric scanners integrated into the guns. 

What I mean about laws encouraging responsibility is gearing laws to encourage responsible behaviors, and punish those who are irresponsible.  Like intoxication laws, or speeding, or whatever.  Not taking away rights of everyone because some people choose to abuse things and remain ignorant.

Psyche tests? Cmon.  May as well psyche test to be allowed to live freely in America, seeing how you can get raped, assaulted, and whatever else too.  Freedom is better than living in a paranoid police state.  How about dealing with the causes of depression, violence, and various mental illnesses?

Suicidal people kill themselves.  Lots of them keep trying till it works.  America has lower suicide than most developed nations. 

I'm down for cracking down on anyone that sells weapons to felons.  I think the gun show problem is way overblown though.  Criminals will always get their hands on guns as long as guns exist.  Criminals need to be spending more time in jail, and jail needs to be spitting back out reformed individuals, not more hardened criminals, that is what is what.  Guns don't kill people, people kill people, deal with the real problem, BAD PEOPLE.
I already said that most people who attempted suicide once never attempted it again.  they were not eager to die, they wanted to "end the pain" and after their attempt, they were happy to live again.  also, I'm saying there should be a psyche test for things like concealed weapons.  average person should just have locks and whatnot so there are no accidents.

psyche tests sound like a good idea because we can then prevent people who like guns for bad reasons from carrying a concealed one in public.  really doesn't sound like a big problem to me.  don't police officers get psyche tests?

captainbiotch

  • (jk i'm his wife, he's a dick)
  • Member
Re: another school shooting
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2008, 01:11:44 AM »
The only safety innovation that is going to have a real impact on guns is cheap biometric scanners integrated into the guns. 

What I mean about laws encouraging responsibility is gearing laws to encourage responsible behaviors, and punish those who are irresponsible.  Like intoxication laws, or speeding, or whatever.  Not taking away rights of everyone because some people choose to abuse things and remain ignorant.

Psyche tests? Cmon.  May as well psyche test to be allowed to live freely in America, seeing how you can get raped, assaulted, and whatever else too.  Freedom is better than living in a paranoid police state.  How about dealing with the causes of depression, violence, and various mental illnesses?

Suicidal people kill themselves.  Lots of them keep trying till it works.  America has lower suicide than most developed nations. 

I'm down for cracking down on anyone that sells weapons to felons.  I think the gun show problem is way overblown though.  Criminals will always get their hands on guns as long as guns exist.  Criminals need to be spending more time in jail, and jail needs to be spitting back out reformed individuals, not more hardened criminals, that is what is what.  Guns don't kill people, people kill people, deal with the real problem, BAD PEOPLE.
I already said that most people who attempted suicide once never attempted it again.  they were not eager to die, they wanted to "end the pain" and after their attempt, they were happy to live again.  also, I'm saying there should be a psyche test for things like concealed weapons.  average person should just have locks and whatnot so there are no accidents.

psyche tests sound like a good idea because we can then prevent people who like guns for bad reasons from carrying a concealed one in public.  really doesn't sound like a big problem to me.  don't police officers get psyche tests?

So are we going to design society around the suicidal?  Is there some method of making guns not work in the hands of a suicidal person?  If we had a method of predicting suicidal people with laser accuracy we'd be using it.  Psychology is an immature science.  Until then you'd be denying rights based upon generalizing psych evaluations.  ARE YOU GOING TO KILL YOURSELF WITH THIS GUN? YEA. SORRY BRO CANT SELL.

Same with concealed carry.  Those psych tests work perfectly huh?  No corruption or brutality in these parts!

recursivelyenumerable

  • you might think that; I couldn't possibly comment
  • Senior Member
Re: another school shooting
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2008, 03:31:27 AM »
Quote
The logic of fear and government paternalism.  Of controlling everyones lives because some people do dumb/bad shit and it is the duty of government to protect people from not just others, but themselves.  Seizing peoples property because you think you know how to spend it better.  Taking away their guns because some people choose to kill.  Getting rid of free speech and innocent until proven guilty and torturing people because the mighty government knows better than pathetic individuals, and anyway, none of us have rights, SOCIAL CONTRACT.  Forcing people to pay for others health, and wealth.  The entirety of socialist dogma.

Cool.  Is there a module for this available somewhere?  It doesn't seem to be included with the standard distribution, at least "Require Import FilthyCommie" isn't working for me.
QED

captainbiotch

  • (jk i'm his wife, he's a dick)
  • Member
Re: another school shooting
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2008, 05:55:43 AM »
Just say social contract and poor people need us a lot.

recursivelyenumerable

  • you might think that; I couldn't possibly comment
  • Senior Member
Re: another school shooting
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2008, 10:05:26 AM »
How many times does it take before I can summon the ghost of Stalin?
QED