Dynasty warriors 6 this week Who's up for killing some yellow turbans?

[pancakesandsex]

It's BAAAAAAAAAAAACK

I'll be picking this up wed as if my life depended on it.  Deposit all impressions, complaints, and other musou talk here.

[MrAngryFace]

Not me, I think they messed up the only character I liked using.

[drohne]

sounds lame. i bought basara 2 instead lolz

[Shuri]

what console, where, url plz

[pancakesandsex]

what console, where, url plz

ps3/360

ps3 for me
http://www.amazon.com/Koei-Dynasty-Warriors-6/dp/B00104KJ4W/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1203380031&sr=8-1

[Mr. Gundam]

I'm contemplating picking it up on Wednesday...

[bork]

I would strongly advise everyone rent this game first.  They changed a lot of stuff, and the general opinion is that it was, unfortunately, NOT for the better.  I'd wait for the inevitable "XL" version that hopefully fixes the problems and adds back the characters they REMOVED.  DW6 doesn't suck, but it also didn't grab me like some of the other Musou games have.  I am strongly comtemplating selling it off this week towards Musou Orochi PSP, but I might hold onto for the likely-coming XL version.  Haven't really played much of the game to be honest; the changes to the game play I can deal with, but the changes to the characters in both design and moves/arsenals just kind of sucks.  :/  Also it's glitchy.  I posted this in the import thread last year...the most memorable experience I had with DW6 has been riding a horse and getting stuck between two rocks, unable to move.  I had to get off the horse and jump like crazy to get "unstuck," then I couldn't call the horse back to me for a good five minutes or so until I was far enough away.   

Import gamers, hold the hell off on this and wait for the second Musou Orochi game on PS2 in the beginning of April instead.  It's going to kick this game's ass all over.

sounds lame. i bought basara 2 instead lolz

It's a far better game.  Get Heroes when you've beaten it!

[bork]

Here's the import thread from December '07 for more thoughts on DW6:

http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=15264.0

Muckson, who is a HUGE fan of the Dynasty Warriors games, wrote up a review in it:

the bottom line at the beginning:  rent the game.  it's good but not as good as it should be. 

if you have more than a minute, read what i thought after a few hours of playing.

the new character design wasn't so big of a deal since the characters get re-designed every game, it was just more drastic this time.  the new weapons were a great touch because every game was basically the same character - and same movesets - with different clothes.  i haven't come close to playing all the characters but the ones that i did use were disparate and the new weapons had beautiful moves. 

unfortunately the new move style like gundam musou is not so hot.  the direction that omega was going with musou orochi was better since all the combinations lent themselves to less button mashing and more combos.  i thought that maybe they would go with an acual combo system but now it's only mashing one button to kill enemies, then get higher renbu, and kill more enemies.  the button doesn't change at all and the only difference is a few more animations to the same weapon button as the renbu gets higher and allows you a longer combo.  i wanted a more extensive orochi/samurai warriors combo system but alas we were screwed out of it.  that means that the 2 basic combos are mash the square/x button or mash the triangle/y button.  boo that shit.  however it must be said that the combos link flawlessly and even though x and y combos aren't supposed to be put together, they can be and the animation doesn't skip a beat.

renbu, the gauge that builds up as you attack more enemies, is half innovative and half annoying.  it can be cool if at the beginning of the stage you have full renbu and can max combo your way through enemies but it sucks when you have to find enemies to fight and can only perform a level one 4-hit combo because your renbu is too low and it seems to take forever to build up.  then if you don't attack enemies because you have to go to the other side of the map, it will slowly drop.  also, without opening up the skill on the skill tree - which looks kind of like the FFX sphere grid - you can only go to level 2 renbu from the start.  it was thier clever way of having 4 hit combos at the beginning, 5 in the middle stages, and 6 at the end.  i can get used to it but it's not the way i would have done it.

the new grapple moves are pretty cool.  holding block and hitting either x or y (sq or tri) will do a close quarters attack.  unfortunately it's not very useful in a large battle because someone can come up behind you and hit you while you are blocking and aiming.  maybe if they took a little more CQC from the metal gear games it would be better, perhaps make it more useful and more deadly, but they made a good attempt and i praise them for it.

horse attacks are samurai warriors style which are off to the right side.  horses are all over the place and you get your own from the start which alleviates the problem of slow characters.  they jump obstacles and come when you call.  on top of that you build them up and theoretically you only need to build up a single horse for the whole game, to have a fast, strong horse that will get you there quickly.

finding weapons is familiar territory but since the combos come from the skill tree rather than weapons there are only 3 types of weapons: strength, speed, and range.  they all have strengths and weaknesses, and depending on what you like you will likely end up sticking with one type the whole game.  the weapons have elements attached to them as well as certain abilities that are randomly found, the harder the stage the higher the bonuses and elements, and the higher the attack number on the weapon will be when you find it. 

you cannot find any items anymore which is taken up by the skill tree, and certain abilities such as getting the kills of your allies or stunning enemies when you musou attack, are given only to certain characters.  in other words not all characters have all abilities. 

the game is hard even on normal and you will find yourself getting frustrated at the same things you did before.  if you are playing liu bei's escape and you are chasing him, you better believe his ass is gonna be gone in five minutes unless you kill him right away.  if you are on liu bei's side you can damn well bet his suicidal ass will go straight to where the fight is hottest and end up getting killed.  some things never change and intelligent AI is one of them. 

the enemies attack more but not until the middle stages of the game.  it's like musou orochi except a little easier.  you can still get killed in 30 seconds by jumping into the middle of the fray without allies like orochi musou, but that's 20 more seconds than you would have gotten from orochi, which means it's comparatively a little easier. 

the ladders and swimming are a nice touch to the game because they are actually necessary.  some gates cannot be broken down from the front as you usually do so you have to defend the siege team until they put up a ladder to allow you to climb and go around.  you see this at huo lao gate most prominently.

the fact that there are different stage challenges seems like a gimmick but it's fun and makes the reason to go back and play a little more fun than just button mashing, especially when you are trying to build your character up.  it actually adds strategy but sometimes they are so difficult that they almost seem impossible.  in one stage you have to keep two forts from falling for 10 minutes but of course two thirds of yuan shao's army attacks those very two forts and destroy them within a couple minutes and the guys protecting those forts seem to throw their hands up and run as soon as the enemies come.  i still haven't figured out how to save those forts.  maybe set it on easy?  other challenges like killing two particular generals is fun since those guys are usually stronger than the other generals and it's more gratifying when they go down.  sometimes when you get to these generals you get in a duel.

that's right duels are back.  this time though it's just you and a general beating the snot out of each other on the battlefield, rather than being transported magically to a cage somewhere else.  at first you may not know that there is a duel going on because you are just fighting but the camera angle drops to behind the back at head level and the soldiers form a circle around you in the background, and they are blurred as the focus goes only on you and the general.  you two cut each other until one lives and the losing soldiers will run off.  another nice touch is that when you do win a duel, take over a fort, or stop a siege your ally soldiers will throw their weapons in the air and let out a yell.  since the graphics are so beautiful it feels like being in a real battle when you and the soldiers go together and attack a fort or head for the main general and tear him up. 

just like last time there are magically appearing soldiers again and there is also slowdown from time to time, which should not happen on the 360 (i don't know about the ps3 version) and i was disappointed.  a lot of the soldiers look alike but it's not as bad as DW3, however that's the way it has to be with a musou game if you want to kill a bunch of soldiers. 

all in all the game gives me mixed emotions.  the beginning of the stages are great with the story introduction, the cut scenes are neat stuff  though the corny japanese dialogue can be annoying.  the repetitive nature of combat attacking - more so than any other musou game - make it hard to play for long, but the challenges and different methods of sieging castles and forts bring me back.  also the graphics are so good this time that it's like playing a movie and the first time you see an in game sunset litter through the trees, casting realistic shadows from the hillside and forest as you bash heads on your way to take out a fort you will feel like you are in a battle.  then you may realize you are just mashing a single button and get kind of sad. 

if it was up to me i would have kept the combo system from orochi but added a few more attacks, and kept renbu as an incentive to keep attacking enemies and keep the strength high by doing so, but not used it as the way to allow more combos to be done.  throw in some more useful CQC to throw generals to the ground and smash their faces or cut their throats and the combat would be complete.  i'd have added items in there and allowed each character to have a couple.  i would have kept the skill tree but made it easier to get skill points than they are now, since you get a point each time the character goes up a level, which at first is fast but near the 20th level the character will hardly ever get points.  (and the only way to get the 6 hit combos is to have points to select renbu levels 3 and infinite on the skill tree - unless you like endless 4 hit combos).  i would have kept the horses, kept the weapons the same as they are, but added the ability to change weapons.  i would have added two more completely different costumes for each character, like DW4, rather than a new color.  swimming and seiging would stay the same but i'd add a couple ways to build the sieges yourself, or at least help rather than watching peasants do it.  the magically appearing enemies would be gone and bodyguards would come back, both single bodyguards from DW5 and multiples from DW3.  throw in more levels like DW4 and 5 and you'd have my game. 

all the little perks make this game have a more realistic feel to it as well as make me smile, but it's true that there is a lot to be desired from this installment.  kudos for making completely different characters of the same historical names, but bad job on making only a couple combos. 

[MrAngryFace]

WTF Gundam Musou's moveset is awesome, it feels like the fucking anime. Fuck off everyone. F U ALL

[bork]

WTF Gundam Musou's moveset is awesome, it feels like the fucking anime. Fuck off everyone. F U ALL

  

I couldn't get into Gundam Musou (I'm not a Gundam fan so it was just lost on me), but I can definitely say that it felt like a much more solid game than DW6 does.  But Gundam Musou to me is more like a PS2-era Musou game "ported up," and look...it's even coming out ON PS2 next month!    DW6 is the first Musou game that feels like a next-gen effort, so it's kind of sad that it falls a bit flat on its face.

Can't wait for Musou Orochi PSP (hope they don't fuck it up!) and Musou Orochi 2 though. 

[MrAngryFace]

Yeah I can agree that some of the elements found in the later musou games felt like they should be there but weren't. DW6 unfortunately appears to have nothing I want. Ive never played musou games for their technical flair

[bork]

I just like to have fun beating the shit out of whole armies and taking down the generals.  That's about it...I generally play these games with the characters that appeal to me, beat their story, and really that's about it and I'm satisfied.  Musou Orochi and Basara 2/Heroes are the exceptions to this rule; I like playing with shitloads of characters in those games.  This is actually why I keep on pimping Basara 2.  Everyone is so damn fun to use. 

They took a lot of characters in DW6 and changed them completely, giving them new weapons (And a lot of the unique weapons are gone.  Instead it's tons of sword/spear characters), and basically ruining what was appealing about them before.   

With the Koei games, I had the most fun playing Musou Orochi, but I think Samurai Warriors 2 has the best game play of all their titles.

[muckson]

samurai warriors 2?  We-HATTTT?  this is the first i've heard of that since i thought we both agreed that the best koei musou game is orochi.

dw6 is definitely a rent first game because you will be able to tell in a few hours whether or not you will like the entire game.

[MrAngryFace]

Orochi may be the most fun for you guys, but its definitely the most broken. The juggles are stupid, the scaling difficulty is sad. You HAVE to play easy first, skill does not come into play at ALL. Wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway DW5 is still my fav of the vanilla, with the two Empire games ahead of that. I might give Orochi Warrior Empires a try if it ever happens. I still prefer the gameplay of Gundam Musou even if the itemization and skill system kinda blew annnd it clung to the frustrating 'lose by a hair' event system.

[pancakesandsex]

I'm actually getting rid of gundam musou.  As a huge gundam fan AND musou fan i was INCREDIBLY disappointed in the game.

It felt incredibly unfinished.  Stage design was ok, but the in between polish just wasnt there in the form of some kind of plot to hold it all together.

The game was terribly grind heavy, with the separate character and suit levels.  Suit levels shouldnt have been present.  Parts collection should have been global and not per suit.

Any and all character interaction and cutscenes were filled with nothing more than fanservice.  Compare to something like orochi, with somewhat of an actual plot to tie everything together, and it feels like an inferior experience.

I'm looking forward to DW6 in light of the complaints.

[MrAngryFace]

what? polish? The plots as good as Orochi.

Suit Levels and Pilot Levels can be gained fast with the skills that increase point gain for both levels. And pretending there's a PLOT to Orochi makes me LOL hard. Jesus fuck.

Fuk u all! FUK U ALL!!!!!!! Im working towards 100,000 kill u all suck wooooo!

[pancakesandsex]

what? polish? The plots as good as Orochi.

Suit Levels and Pilot Levels can be gained fast with the skills that increase point gain for both levels. And pretending there's a PLOT to Orochi makes me LOL hard. Jesus fuck.

Fuk u all! FUK U ALL!!!!!!! Im working towards 100,000 kill u all suck wooooo!

I use the term loosley, but at least they tell you when people join your side.  Its not like one stage you fight kamille and the next stage you have him on your team with no explanation.

The game felt like something was missing.  The lack of a between mission narrator hurt the feeling of continuity between levels, and i felt lt lacked a sense of purpose for each stage other than "kill badguys because badguys are bad"

[Shuri]

Gundam DW is the first and only DW game I could ever get into. For some reasons, the other games just didnt appeal to me, I would get bored of them really fast. I have DW6 on pre-order; I dont know what was so wrong with it.

But then again, I played G:DW on hard level all the time. My main complain with those games before was that I hated how the ennemies wouldnt even react to you most of the time.

[The Sceneman]

I really enjoyed Orochi, got like 700 achievement points on it

1st musou game I really spent a lot of time with so Im not sure how It compares to other games, but I did enjoy it, might go back and play on some harder difficulties for some more achieves

I'll probably check out DW6 and Gundam (Im not a Gundam fan tho, dont really know anything about the damn things, will I still enjoy the game?)

[Joe Molotov]

Not to derail the topic too much, but if I've never played a Dynasty Warriors game, which one should I try first? Dynasty Warriors 6, Dynasty Warriors 5 Empires, Dynasty Warriors Gundam, Samurai Warriors 2, Samurai Warriors 2 Empires, or Warriors Orochi?  Also, would I like DW if I didn't really care for Phantagram's games (KUF and N3)?

[Shuri]

I really enjoyed Orochi, got like 700 achievement points on it

1st musou game I really spent a lot of time with so Im not sure how It compares to other games, but I did enjoy it, might go back and play on some harder difficulties for some more achieves

I'll probably check out DW6 and Gundam (Im not a Gundam fan tho, dont really know anything about the damn things, will I still enjoy the game?)

I dont know much about gundam other that I think they somewhat look cool, and I enjoyed the game. I have no idea about the storylines, but it doesnt take anything away from the game. You get cutscenes and stuff.

I'd say get it for cheap on ebay.

[bork]

samurai warriors 2?  We-HATTTT?  this is the first i've heard of that since i thought we both agreed that the best koei musou game is orochi.

Just the character control...I like the way the SW2 special move system works more than Orochi's, but overall I think Orochi is the best Musou, hands-down. 

Orochi may be the most fun for you guys, but its definitely the most broken. The juggles are stupid, the scaling difficulty is sad. You HAVE to play easy first, skill does not come into play at ALL. Wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I found it challenging, but never unfairly so.  You just can't charge in head-first and expect to win, and you have to do a lot of running away and regaining life in the beginning.  I liked that one of these games actually made it difficult to take on hordes of normal enemies (on normal difficulty) instead of them just standing around, for once.

Not to derail the topic too much, but if I've never played a Dynasty Warriors game, which one should I try first? Dynasty Warriors 6, Dynasty Warriors 5 Empires, Dynasty Warriors Gundam, Samurai Warriors 2, Samurai Warriors 2 Empires, or Warriors Orochi?  Also, would I like DW if I didn't really care for Phantagram's games (KUF and N3)?

If you want straight-up action, forget the Empires games.  If you want some more strategy in your Musou, try an Empiures title out.

I definitely would NOT recommend DW6 as a first game.  First decide which timeline you like (ancient China, feudal Japan, or futuristic anime-robot-lolz) and go from there.  I'd recommend Samurai Warriors 2 or Gundam as good starters, and again, I'm not even that big on DW Gundam, but I can see how it makes a good entry-level title.  If you want to be challenged, you could try out Orochi.  It has the benefit of a fun three-man team system that lets you swap out characters at any time.

I'll probably check out DW6 and Gundam (Im not a Gundam fan tho, dont really know anything about the damn things, will I still enjoy the game?)

Gundam IS still a Musou game and plays like the rest, so I figured I'd enjoy it, but I just couldn't get into it because the mechs don't appeal to me in the same way that human characters do. 

I have to keep saying this again and again: If you want to try something new, make it Sengoku Basara 2 on the PS2.  It's a more arcade-style take on Musou games, and it's so much fucking fun.  Capcom is absolutely insane for not releasing it English (in its original form and sans the bullshit that was "Devil Kings")

[pancakesandsex]

I think gundam musou has way way WAY less appeal to "outsiders" who arent as familiar with the series.   Orochi and the other games are n00b friendly if you dont know the history, where the gundam game was just full of insider lulz with no continuity or explanation of motives etc.  Even as an insider to the gags and whatnot, i still found it rather bland compared to the other character mashups like super robot wars