Author Topic: Microsoft and Indie royalties  (Read 1907 times)

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MCD

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Microsoft and Indie royalties
« on: February 23, 2008, 02:01:09 PM »
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=243018

so let's get real, we here love XBLA and the new XNA is well...not bad for a start but enough about that.

what will this mean for the future of XBLA? will this turn developers away to PSN and WiiWare? or will it make it more about the awesome games and less shitty ones?

discuss the issue at hand CIVILLY.

Eel O'Brian

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2008, 02:19:12 PM »
That's a pretty steep cut.  I'd be interested in finding out what their reasoning for this is.
sup

Hitler Stole My Potato

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2008, 02:37:35 PM »
It's like they just want to fail.   

After all their bringing the community together BS and the hubabaloo about supporting the indie scene they go and do this.  Fucking great job MS.  Burn those bridges.
Tacos

AdmiralViscen

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2008, 05:26:53 PM »
Ew, that's gay.

But what are the royalties for big devs?

CurseoftheGods

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2008, 05:28:41 PM »
Fucking Microsoft. For as many good decisions they've made this generation they've at least as many bad ones.

FancyFeast

  • Ebola Carrier
Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2008, 05:54:33 PM »
Off I go, to the wild portal yonder...   :-\ :-*

Joe Molotov

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2008, 06:04:17 PM »
That's pretty harsh. I don't know what sales are like on XBLA, but it sounds like the little guy is getting raped in the butt.
©@©™

ToxicAdam

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2008, 06:06:52 PM »
Where's AdmiralViscen to tell me how MS is good for gaming?


AdmiralViscen

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2008, 06:29:28 PM »
Where were you when I posted a well-thought out response the last time you tried to call me out? You never touched the thread again.

BTW, I'm about 5 posts above you criticizing the same thing you are, jackass.

drohne

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2008, 06:45:27 PM »
the new royalty rate is theft. 'you make the game, we'll keep 65% of the proceeds for letting you sell it on our service.' just microsoft being microsoft, i guess

pilonv1

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2008, 08:09:26 PM »
The sad thing is where else will they go? You could say PSN, but with no demo you're probably not going to get anywhere near the amount sales unless you have incredible word of mouth like with Pixel Junk Monsters. Then theres WiiWare... :lol
itm

MCD

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2008, 08:11:08 PM »
some games have demos iirc, SF Puzzle? not sure...

Sony still haven't made a "UNIVERSAL/STANDARD LIST" for developers to follow...perhaps they are still sleeping.

AdmiralViscen

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2008, 08:16:45 PM »
Devs can make a PSN demo if they so choose, but I don't think Sony gave them standard tools to unlock the full game like XBLA seems to have. Then there are games like Gripshift where the devs went out of their way to make a demo and Sony took it down for some reason.

pilonv1

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2008, 08:26:04 PM »
That's the point I was making - there's not a standard way to get a demo and unlock it as there is with every XBLA game. There's no way I'd have bought half my XBLA games without a demo, and the ones I did blind purchase I instantly regretted (sup Speedball).

And Sony even take down their own demos (GT5P).
itm

Smooth Groove

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2008, 08:39:00 PM »
While I do think that MS is far too comfortable with its current position, is this really going to make a big deal in the long run?  I doubt that the low budget indie games matter much to most gamers that are choosing between 360 and PS3. 

MCD

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2008, 08:55:56 PM »
i am actually worried about niche japanese arcade games that we might not see thanks to this.

AdmiralViscen

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2008, 10:09:10 AM »
What is the royalty rate for a standard XBLA game? PSN?


-btw, fuck you TA for another hollow hit-and-run
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 10:11:35 AM by AdmiralViscen »

calcifer

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2008, 10:26:37 AM »
more games coming to psn ftw

pilonv1

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2008, 09:24:22 PM »
Seems like Kotaku got it wrong

http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2008/02/xbla_royalty_rate_changes_clos.php

Quote
XBLA Royalty Rate Changes - Closer To The Truth?

- So, one of the big stories from earlier this week was Kotaku's one on Microsoft apparently 'cutting XBLA royalties in half', and it's one that has caused a lot of controversy, with plenty of predictable name-calling and insistence on the death of XBLA as a viable platform.

One of the problems here, of course, is that Kotaku's report only had one side of the story - and Microsoft isn't really in a position to refute the reports, because it will not discuss original or current royalty rates in public. Which leads us to a problem to be resolved - did Microsoft really cut its XBLA royalty rates in half without _ANY_ changes to the developer package?

The answer is no, of course. How Xbox Live Arcade works is badly understood by many, but let's try to split it up. Firstly, there are two different ways you can publish your game - either via Microsoft's own XBLA producers (let's call that 'first party'), or via an existing retail publishing partner such as Electronic Arts, Sierra, THQ, and so on (let's call that 'third party').

From what I understand, third-party royalty rates - which I believe were already less than 70% - are not affected at all by any of these new royalty changes. (Of course, if you're an indie and you have to go through a third-party, you will be getting a percentage of a percentage, because Microsoft takes a cut, and then your publisher, and then you. But you don't have to worry about testing, localization, getting ratings, and so on - it may be that Microsoft is keen for a greater percentage of games to run through those parties.)

So, it's the 'first-party' rates which are changing. And I didn't really have the specifics of how until an IndieGamer post by XBLA developer Paul Johnson helped counteract some of the paranoia. As he explains:

"If you had a 70% deal... for a game, then you'll get your 70% for the life of the product. There is now a sliding scale in place for royalty payouts that is sure enough less than 70% at its best, but I've always thought that 70% to be unsustainably high from the get go, not that I was going to complain about it...

In return for the more realistic but still commercially viable lower rate, you get a variety of services for free that would've cost you plenty and would previously have presented a barrier to entry. Worldwide [game] ratings, localization, etc. It's a good deal. Unless you think saying M$ makes you clever, in which case I'm sure it will suck."

So basically - yes, the rumor is essentially correct, in that some royalty deals on first-party games may now be as low as 35%. But these lower royalty deals will now apparently include a lot of the 'grunt work' in localization that the developer had to pay up front - and sometimes perhaps couldn't afford.
itm

MCD

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2008, 09:27:04 PM »
wait...what about gaf posters (like Jim, a mod) whom confirmed kotaku's report?

MCD

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2008, 09:38:05 PM »
weird...

ToxicAdam

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2008, 10:57:51 PM »
Where's AdmiralViscen now? Owned again!


HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2008, 03:27:09 AM »
Shit like this is why I never want Microsoft to have a leading position in the gaming industry.  They could, they will make the despotic reigns of Nintendo and Sony seem like the happy memories of your best childhood Christmas.

MCD

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2008, 03:31:02 AM »
Shit like this is why I never want Microsoft to have a leading position in the gaming industry.  They could, they will make the despotic reigns of Nintendo and Sony seem like the happy memories of your best childhood Christmas.
which is why competition is awesome, so relax.

also: http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=17992.msg435719#msg435719


AdmiralViscen

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Re: Microsoft and Indie royalties
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2008, 04:26:32 AM »
Where's AdmiralViscen now? Owned again!



Fuck off dude.