Biggest Oscar Failures?

[CajoleJuice]

Pan's Labyrinth is emotionally manipulative lol

[Ichirou]

Someone explain to me why Shawshank is emotionally manipulative. I've never understood or bought those arguments

That's because you are easily manipulated.  Basically, if you were a woman, and your husband beat you all the time, you'd probably think he still loved you.

Explain it to me omg

Art elicits emotion. Music can create a sad atmosphere which people (you know, humans with emotions and stuff) relate to, and even cry over. Film can remind a person of past experiences, their family, etc. What's wrong with that?

Willco says you should never cry over a piece of entertainment because it's all FAKE.

[Phoenix Dark]

Pan's Labyrinth is emotionally manipulative lol

omg a little girl getting treated bad i feel so bad for her WTF MANIPULATION PLZ GOD MAKE ME FORGET I'M HUMAN

[Fresh Prince]

Art elicits emotion. Music can create a sad atmosphere which people (you know, humans with emotions and stuff) relate to, and even cry over. Film can remind a person of past experiences, their family, etc. What's wrong with that?

Read my post.

Also, he doesn't steal any money.

Doesn't he go to the bank and get the laundered money to live on the beach?

[Ichirou]

OMG AERITH LOOK BEHIND YOU SEPHIROTH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 :'(

[Phoenix Dark]

Someone explain to me why Shawshank is emotionally manipulative. I've never understood or bought those arguments

That's because you are easily manipulated.  Basically, if you were a woman, and your husband beat you all the time, you'd probably think he still loved you.

Explain it to me omg

Art elicits emotion. Music can create a sad atmosphere which people (you know, humans with emotions and stuff) relate to, and even cry over. Film can remind a person of past experiences, their family, etc. What's wrong with that?

Willco says you should never cry over a piece of entertainment because it's all FAKE.

When I was a kid I cried after reading Tuck Everlasting and The Great Gilly Hopkins. I cried after Forest Gump. Art elicits emotion, and the exact emotion differs from person to person. In part that's why it's art.

[Ichirou]

Doesn't he go to the bank and get the laundered money to live on the beach?

I thought he just escaped and got a job somewhere in Mexico.  Shows how much attention I was paying to the movie, I guess.  It's been a while. :/

[Bloodwake]

Films the Academy got RIGHT

From the list of nominees, last year (The Departed) was probably the best of the five. Still, seriously, Children of Men.

Schindler's List
The Silence of the Lambs

3. And to PD, The Departed is fucking boring and stupid.  It was a pity Oscar.  It's not even a good movie.

Eh, I disagree. Go watch the Condemned and tell me it sucks.

What is The Condemned?

The Departed was a pity oscar for past sins against Marty.  This isn't even debatable.

It starts Stone Cole Steve Austin.

Seriously, go watch a truly bad film and then tell me that the Departed is a bad film. It isn't. It had good acting from an ensemble cast and it was interesting. Plus, it had superior editing from Schoonmauer again. Plus, there was some decent dialogue from the screenplay that won its Academy Award as well.

And honestly, are you going to tell me Little Miss Sunshine, The Queen, or Letters from Iwo Jima deserved it any more?

[TVC15]

Someone explain to me why Shawshank is emotionally manipulative. I've never understood or bought those arguments

That's because you are easily manipulated.  Basically, if you were a woman, and your husband beat you all the time, you'd probably think he still loved you.

Explain it to me omg

Art elicits emotion. Music can create a sad atmosphere which people (you know, humans with emotions and stuff) relate to, and even cry over. Film can remind a person of past experiences, their family, etc. What's wrong with that?

Emotional manipulation in a film is, to be blunt, when a narrative takes the easy way of getting an emotional response rather than relying on narrative strength.  Due to living in a structured society, humans have all sorts of buttons that can be easily pressed in order to get an easily predictable response.  But I'm not your fucking google, so read up on the psychological concept.  It relatively easily maps directly onto film.  Emotional manipulation is, say, teh equivalent of having canned laughter in a television show.  It's there so the stupid people at home can tell what a joke is.  Swelling strings in movies are pretty much cinematic canned laughter, for example.

And don't talk to me about art, rube.  You're the one championing paper thin movies for the sole reason that they make you misty eyed.  You're no aesthete, you are a robot.

[Bloodwake]

Pan's Labyrinth is emotionally manipulative lol

omg a little girl getting treated bad i feel so bad for her WTF MANIPULATION PLZ GOD MAKE ME FORGET I'M HUMAN

Pan's Labyrinth made me tear up, but Forrest Gump? Sorry.

[Ichirou]

Letters from Iwo Jima was...I dunno, it had some nice moments, but I cringed when I realized what they were doing "if you visited America and/or speak English = good Japanese officer", "if you didn't = baaaaad Japanese officer."

PD, did you ever watch Mr. Holland's Opus?  THAT is emotionally manipulative.  And I Am Sam, whoo boy.

[Eel O'Brian]

yeah, the condemned is pretty awful

but you do get to hear stone cold tell some chick he loves her, and that is a filmed slice of unintentional hilarity for the ages

[Mupepe]

Pan's is the best movie of '07 hands fucking down

2006, and you're probably right.  It's close between that and Children of Men, but Pan's has stayed with me more.  Amazing amazing movie.

Yeah, but I saw it in 07  lolz

But yeah, fucking brilliant

[TVC15]

Films the Academy got RIGHT

From the list of nominees, last year (The Departed) was probably the best of the five. Still, seriously, Children of Men.

Schindler's List
The Silence of the Lambs

3. And to PD, The Departed is fucking boring and stupid.  It was a pity Oscar.  It's not even a good movie.

Eh, I disagree. Go watch the Condemned and tell me it sucks.

What is The Condemned?

The Departed was a pity oscar for past sins against Marty.  This isn't even debatable.

Seriously, go watch a truly bad film and then tell me that the Departed is a bad film.

It's competently made, and I'm glad I wached it, but people only think it's great because it won awards.  It's a WEAK MARTIN SCORSESE MOVIE.  He makes them kinda frequently.  And why did it win Awards?  because the Academy has wanted to give him a pity Oscar FOR YEARS.  Remember Gangs of New York?  EVERYONE agrees that one sucked ass, but it got the big nominations.  He almost got a pity Oscar for that mess.

It had good acting from an ensemble cast and it was interesting.

I found the acting tepid, especially Matt Damon.  Jack and Leo were, as usual, excellent, but Damon was really weak.  He couldn't even keep his accent straight.

And honestly, are you going to tell me Little Miss Sunshine, The Queen, or Letters from Iwo Jima deserved it any more?

Pan's and Children of Men should have been nominated.  It's criminal that they weren't.

And I remember that Steve Austin movie now.  I kinda want to see that on account of it looking awesomely terrible.

[Phoenix Dark]

Someone explain to me why Shawshank is emotionally manipulative. I've never understood or bought those arguments

That's because you are easily manipulated.  Basically, if you were a woman, and your husband beat you all the time, you'd probably think he still loved you.

Explain it to me omg

Art elicits emotion. Music can create a sad atmosphere which people (you know, humans with emotions and stuff) relate to, and even cry over. Film can remind a person of past experiences, their family, etc. What's wrong with that?

Emotional manipulation in a film is, to be blunt, when a narrative takes the easy way of getting an emotional response rather than relying on narrative strength.  Due to living in a structured society, humans have all sorts of buttons that can be easily pressed in order to get an easily predictable response.  But I'm not your fucking google, so read up on the psychological concept.  It relatively easily maps directly onto film.  Emotional manipulation is, say, teh equivalent of having canned laughter in a television show.  It's there so the stupid people at home can tell what a joke is.  Swelling strings in movies are pretty much cinematic canned laughter, for example.

And don't talk to me about art, rube.  You're the one championing paper thin movies for the sole reason that they make you misty eyed.  You're no aesthete, you are a robot.

I was making a valid point about art, not questioning your understanding of it. I know you're an art cigarillo, don't crucify me son

But you never addressed my point. If a piece of art makes you cry does that mean it's emotionally manipulative? And considering art appreciation is subjective how can you question other people's honest reactions to said emotion?

[Eel O'Brian]

i understand juno is this year's little miss sunshine

[TVC15]

Someone explain to me why Shawshank is emotionally manipulative. I've never understood or bought those arguments

That's because you are easily manipulated.  Basically, if you were a woman, and your husband beat you all the time, you'd probably think he still loved you.

Explain it to me omg

Art elicits emotion. Music can create a sad atmosphere which people (you know, humans with emotions and stuff) relate to, and even cry over. Film can remind a person of past experiences, their family, etc. What's wrong with that?

Emotional manipulation in a film is, to be blunt, when a narrative takes the easy way of getting an emotional response rather than relying on narrative strength.  Due to living in a structured society, humans have all sorts of buttons that can be easily pressed in order to get an easily predictable response.  But I'm not your fucking google, so read up on the psychological concept.  It relatively easily maps directly onto film.  Emotional manipulation is, say, teh equivalent of having canned laughter in a television show.  It's there so the stupid people at home can tell what a joke is.  Swelling strings in movies are pretty much cinematic canned laughter, for example.

And don't talk to me about art, rube.  You're the one championing paper thin movies for the sole reason that they make you misty eyed.  You're no aesthete, you are a robot.

I was making a valid point about art, not questioning your understanding of it. I know you're an art cigarillo, don't crucify me son

But you never addressed my point. If a piece of art makes you cry does that mean it's emotionally manipulative?

First sentence:

Emotional manipulation in a film is, to be blunt, when a narrative takes the easy way of getting an emotional response rather than relying on narrative strength.

Narratives getting an emotional response is fine.  Taking the EASY WAY to get that response is what's reprehensible.

And considering art appreciation is subjective how can you question other people's honest reactions to said emotion?

Well, if you honestly find clearly emotionally manipulative things to be truly emotional, you're probably either a simple person or you haven't experienced a whole lot of fiction.

[Eel O'Brian]

And I remember that Steve Austin movie now.  I kinda want to see that on account of it looking awesomely terrible.

seriously, don't bother

i love stupid action movies as much as the next guy, but it's truly terrible and not in a fun way

plus they try to cram a goddamned message down your throat

it's the only blu ray i have sold on ebay, i couldn't even keep it for the eye candy

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm sorry, but I haven't heard one substantive argument here. Art appreciation is subjective, and what you may find simple and "reprehensible" is quite moving and relevant to others. A person who saw the destructive effects of rampant drug use, or survived Vietnam might look at Forrest Gump completely different than you, and I don't think their life experience or your art knowledge makes either opinion more valid: it's opinion.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

you can have wrong opinions, sorry

forrest gump is a good movie = wrong opinion

[Ichirou]

Forrest Gump sucked, but at the elitism...

[Howard Alan Treesong]

if being elitist just means I'm not the dumbest motherfucker in the room, then hell yes I'm elitist

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm not talking about whether it's a good movie or not; that's a subjective decision. I'm talking about whether it's emotion is manipulative and cheap, and that anyone who falls for it is "dumb".

[Ichirou]

if being elitist just means I'm not the dumbest motherfucker in the room, then hell yes I'm elitist

But you are the dumbest motherfucker in the room. 

[TVC15]

I'm sorry, but I haven't heard one substantive argument here. Art appreciation is subjective, and what you may find simple and "reprehensible" is quite moving and relevant to others. A person who saw the destructive effects of rampant drug use, or survived Vietnam might look at Forrest Gump completely different than you, and I don't think their life experience or your art knowledge makes either opinion more valid: it's opinion.

Well, I can't help that you're inexperienced.  Maybe you should watch more good movies that have valid emotional payoffs, rather than terrible Hollywood movies featuring magical distinguished mentally-challenged fellows and nostalgia-by-numbers soundtracks composed of licensed music that has a readymade emotion already attached.

[Ichirou]

He's young, home-schooled, and sheltered.  Give him a fucking break.  I don't think he even has cable.

He recently saw Raging Bull and his opinion of it was on point.  He's learning.

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm sorry, but I haven't heard one substantive argument here. Art appreciation is subjective, and what you may find simple and "reprehensible" is quite moving and relevant to others. A person who saw the destructive effects of rampant drug use, or survived Vietnam might look at Forrest Gump completely different than you, and I don't think their life experience or your art knowledge makes either opinion more valid: it's opinion.

Well, I can't help that you're inexperienced.  Maybe you should watch more good movies that have valid emotional payoffs, rather than terrible Hollywood movies featuring magical distinguished mentally-challenged fellows and nostalgia-by-numbers soundtracks composed of licensed music that has a readymade emotion already attached.

What was wrong with the music? Do you know any people who grew up in the 60s and 70s? They'll tell you those songs were their soundtrack: why not pay homage to that in a film that goes through those years? I respect your opinion, I just respectfully disagree

[Smooth Groove]

PD, I respect your views on the "films" that we discuss through PM. 

[Phoenix Dark]

PD, I respect your views on the "films" that we discuss through PM. 

We only deal with classics amirite 

[Ichirou]

I think TVC's criticism of the soundtrack is valid.  It's emotional shorthand.  Instead of getting across emotions through original imagery or storytelling, Zemeckis just puts in a greatest hits of the '50s-'70s and lets that do the bulk of the work for him.

Compare that to something like Once Upon a Time in America, which also uses an old song in its soundtrack (The Beatles 'Yesterday'), but gives it thematic and emotional resonance within the picture itself, not just relying on the pre-existing emotions the song reverberates inside you.

[TVC15]

I'm sorry, but I haven't heard one substantive argument here. Art appreciation is subjective, and what you may find simple and "reprehensible" is quite moving and relevant to others. A person who saw the destructive effects of rampant drug use, or survived Vietnam might look at Forrest Gump completely different than you, and I don't think their life experience or your art knowledge makes either opinion more valid: it's opinion.

Well, I can't help that you're inexperienced.  Maybe you should watch more good movies that have valid emotional payoffs, rather than terrible Hollywood movies featuring magical distinguished mentally-challenged fellows and nostalgia-by-numbers soundtracks composed of licensed music that has a readymade emotion already attached.

What was wrong with the music? Do you know any people who grew up in the 60s and 70s? They'll tell you those songs were their soundtrack: why not pay homage to that in a film that goes through those years? I respect your opinion, I just respectfully disagree

I'm biased against movies that are too reliant on pop songs, especially in the case of films like Forest Gump, which make the soundtrack such a prominent part of the movie and its promotion.  Sure, pop music has its place in movies, but relying on it like a crutch is weak.

[Phoenix Dark]

To me it just helped set tone and atmosphere. Like in the scene where Jenny is about to commit suicide and you've got the hectic Free Bird guitar solo contributing to this sense of chaos 

Jenny  :'(

[bagofeyes]

 

[Ichirou]

To me it just helped set tone and atmosphere. Like in the scene where Jenny is about to commit suicide and you've got the hectic Free Bird guitar solo contributing to this sense of chaos 

Jenny  :'(

Do you think one of the Black Panthers gave her AIDS?  I think it was implied.

I mostly hated Forrest Gump because it was conservative propaganda.

[TVC15]

To me it just helped set tone and atmosphere. Like in the scene where Jenny is about to commit suicide and you've got the hectic Free Bird guitar solo contributing to this sense of chaos 

Jenny  :'(

So you like the music for basically the same reason I hate it.

To me it just helped set tone and atmosphere. Like in the scene where Jenny is about to commit suicide and you've got the hectic Free Bird guitar solo contributing to this sense of chaos 

Jenny  :'(

I mostly hated Forrest Gump because it was conservative propaganda.

It's so hollow and contrived.  When I first saw it when I was 11 or 12, before the awards, even my dumbass young self realized how manufactured the sentiment was.  Cinematic beer goggles. . .much like even a woman could look attractive after a few drinks, with the right kind of sheen, people will even think a terrible movie is good.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Freebird

[Phoenix Dark]

To me it just helped set tone and atmosphere. Like in the scene where Jenny is about to commit suicide and you've got the hectic Free Bird guitar solo contributing to this sense of chaos 

Jenny  :'(

Do you think one of the Black Panthers gave her AIDS?  I think it was implied.

I mostly hated Forrest Gump because it was conservative propaganda.

Nah she could have gotten it from any multitude of people/needles imo. Wasn't she fucking the Berkeley guy at that time though

[Ichirou]

She was so slutty!  At least Forrest hit it while it was somewhat fresh.

[Eel O'Brian]

I liked Forrest Gump okay at the time, don't see how in the blue hell you got conservative propaganda out of it

[brawndolicious]

I'm not talking about whether it's a good movie or not; that's a subjective decision. I'm talking about whether it's emotion is manipulative and cheap, and that anyone who falls for it is "dumb".

You're dumb because you miss the obvious political slant.  I mean think about it.  I don't want to say you're a total idiot, but the 20th century is being told through the eyes of a...distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.

Would you like the movie as much if it was about a grizzled vietnam veteran who hated life?  Do you think it would have gotten as many awards?

Eel, it showed the person always doing what he was told (forrest) suffering while Jenny, who was rebellious, died from AIDS.

[Phoenix Dark]

That's a simplistic explanation to say the least

[Eel O'Brian]

Uh, he never did what he was told, except for the vietnam parts, and that was a parody of military life

who told him to run across country for a year

[Ichirou]

I liked Forrest Gump okay at the time, don't see how in the blue hell you got conservative propaganda out of it

You missed what a huge piece of political propaganda it was?  Forrest Gump representative of the best values of the '50s (conservative dreamland) and Jenny representative of the values of the '60s (librrrrul nightmare)?

[Eel O'Brian]

uh, he was a stumblebum who just happened to be in the right places at the right times, it was clearly a hamhanded satire

i think you're projecting something into this sappy movie that wasn't there, and giving them way too much credit

as if tom hanks would even be in a conservative propaganda movie, i mean come on dude

[Ichirou]

I guess you missed the subtext.  Don't feel too bad, it seems like Tom Hanks did too.  Seriously, read up on it - when it was released, it was used (quite effectively) by the Republican party as propaganda, and the original writer was rather upset about it.  Not surprising, though, as Rob Zemeckis is VERY conservative, so it was undoubtedly part of his agenda.

[Eel O'Brian]

haha, okay then

[brawndolicious]

I guess you missed the subtext.  Don't feel too bad, it seems like Tom Hanks did too.

no, I don't think Tom would agree to play the lead role in a big hollywood movie that was a satire of a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.  the problem with the movie is that nearly no one can relate to the events in forrest's life.  cause those sorts of things would only happen to forrest.  if you're trying to see things through the eyes of a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow in a movie that's about real historical events in the last 50 years then...yeah, think about that.

I may not be able to convince you about the political slant, but it's obvious that it crosses the line about what you can make a movie about.

[Ichirou]

haha, okay then

I am quite serious.  Then, when Pleasantville came out, there was an argument among academics about whether liberals should use THAT movie as librrrrul propaganda, referencing the success Republicans had had with Forrest Gump.

[The Fake Shemp]

I'm sorry I don't cry while reading or watching fiction.  It's lame.  Just because something is powerful, doesn't mean you have to cry - it means you're emo.  It's all fake!

spoiler (click to show/hide)

... like Schindler's List!

[close]

[Ichirou]

CrystalGemini needs to post here and tell us all how Willco cried in Transformers when Jazz died.

[The Fake Shemp]

We actually both laughed about how the black Transformer was the only to die.

[Ichirou]

Hewing to genre conventions is one of Michael Bay's strong points as a filmmaker.

[EvilBoris]

 Can't wait to hear Michael Bay's comments about the VFX upset. I mean, you know he will have something to say.

[Ichirou]

He sometimes makes angry posts on his website's forum (like when Transformers got announced as an HD-DVD exclusive), so we might get to hear Bay pissed off and uncensored.

[BlueTsunami]

The Hindu dude for Short Circuit 2 should have got an Oscar

[Eric P]

i hate forrest gump so much

[DJ_Tet]

Can't wait to hear Michael Bay's comments about the VFX upset. I mean, you know he will have something to say.

Golden Compass over fighting robots?  Get the fuck out of here, seriously.

I never in my wildest imagination thought about real life giant robots fighting on screen in warzones, fucked up designs be damned.  It looked amazing and was truly a feat combining a LOT of real footage blended in seamlessly with GIANT FUCKING ROBOTS!

But yeah, Golden Compass 

[Ichirou]

The polar bears were cool.

I'm glad Transformers didn't win.  The designs looked like something vomited out by a trash compactor.

[DJ_Tet]

Yeah but they've been doing digital polar bears for 15 freaking years since the old Coke commercials.

Giant fighting robots blowing up highways and buildings, sorry.  Designs be damned.

[TVC15]

Can't wait to hear Michael Bay's comments about the VFX upset. I mean, you know he will have something to say.

Golden Compass over fighting robots?  Get the fuck out of here, seriously.

I never in my wildest imagination thought about real life giant robots fighting on screen in warzones, fucked up designs be damned.  It looked amazing and was truly a feat combining a LOT of real footage blended in seamlessly with GIANT FUCKING ROBOTS!

But yeah, Golden Compass 

Transformers looked like ass.  I've said this from day 1.  Whether they were technically more proficient or not is beside the point when the effects look unpleasing.  The terrible faux-organic-inspired design made the robots look like messes when they were grappling together on the screen.  As I've said before, it was difficult to tell where one robot ended and another began in that final sequence.  I think there's only one truly impressive sequence in the movie (the desert fight with the military peeps.  Not the opening one; the one after).

Transformers does nothing well.  It might actually be Bay's worst movie.