The Spirit of the Beehive almost made me cry :(

[TVC15]

It captures the good and the bad of childhood so accurately.  I'm not sure I've seen a movie that does childhood so well.  It's a really neat mix of melancholy and wonder.  I really hope Cria Cuervos is of similar quality, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.  This is pretty much one of the best movies I've ever seen.  It's got great photography and it tells much of its story via visuals rather than dialogue.  With that said, when the kids talk to each other, it feels so real.  They sound like little kids when they bullshit each other.

And Ana Torrent is such a cute little kid, too.  Keep in mind, Himuro, that these pictures are from the 70s, so she is way too old for you now:





I'm going to go commit suicide now.

The only question in my mind is which is the better Movie Featuring Kids But Intended for Adults:  this or Fanny and Alexander or The 400 Blows?

[Ichirou]

Yeah, I want this DVD too.  One of the best movies ever.  Back when Spanish filmmaking was still worth a damn.  Nowadays the only notable Spanish filmmaker is Almodovar (Amenabar suckssss).

Lucky you didn't cry, tho, or Willco would be in this thread making fun of you for getting emotional over a piece of fiction.

[TVC15]

Yeah, I want this DVD too.  One of the best movies ever.  Back when Spanish filmmaking was still worth a damn.  Nowadays the only notable Spanish filmmaker is Almodovar (Amenabar suckssss).

Lucky you didn't cry, tho, or Willco would be in this thread making fun of you for getting emotional over a piece of fiction.

I'd count it as a cry.  I don't cry all that often, even at traumatic events in real life.

This just felt so accurate and real.  From the way the kids talk to how the photography makes so many mundane things look curious and interesting, as if you're seeing them for the first time.

EDIT:  Have you seen Cria Cuervos, Ichi?

[The Fake Shemp]

ALMOST doesn't cut it!

[TVC15]

It counts.  I didn't cry when my dad or brother died, not even during the extended mourning period.  I think the last time I cried (or at least the last time I remember) was when I did ecstacy.  If I did ecstacy and watched melancholy european movies about how much childhood sucks, I'd probably say fuck the wrists and just lop off my hands.

[The Fake Shemp]

 :'(

[Ichirou]

I have not seen Cria Cuervos.  Have you seen Marcelino Pan y Vino?  That movie did make me cry. So fucking depressing.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

The only question in my mind is which is the better Movie Featuring Kids But Intended for Adults:  this or Fanny and Alexander or The 400 Blows?

Oh, that's one of my favorite genres.  The Europeans do it so dang well.  Anybody else catch/was devastated by I'm Not Scared, a very fine Italian film from a few years back?



(collapses into a blubbering mess)

[TVC15]

I have not seen I'm Not Scared.

I have not seen Cria Cuervos.  Have you seen Marcelino Pan y Vino?  That movie did make me cry. So fucking depressing.

I haven't seen that either.

What did it for me with Spirit of the Beehive wasn't that the movie was depressing or melancholy, but the accurate depiction of both the highs and lows of childhood.  I'm as much weepy about the beauty of it as I am the more depressing elements.

[Ichirou]

Yeah, I'm Not Scared was such a bizarre mixture of suspense, destroyed innocence, and overwhelming sadness.   The whole story seen through a child's eyes actually gives it a sort of dreamy atmosphere.  Really good stuff.  Have you read the book it's based on?

[bagofeyes]

lol

[TVC15]

Nope!

And holy shit, I just read about the cinematographer that did Spirit of the Beehive and now I'm even more depressed

[Ichirou]

Watch I'm Not Scared, TVC!  It is good stuff.

[TVC15]

Is there a decent US DVD?

[Ichirou]

Yeah, I saw it at the local arthouse theater and I think Miramax released it on DVD a few years back.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

Its still up on Netflix.  And yeah, its great, but its not great-great.  I might be afraid of overselling it, but rest assured, it doesn't suck.

[TVC15]

The Criterions for both Spirit of the Beehive and Cria Cuervos are feature-packed, but they lack commentaries.  I wish they would have gotten a film historian on there to talk about both the historical context of the movies (in regards to the period in which they take place) and in the context of the years they were made (during Franco's waning years).  Growing up in America, I know little of Spanish fascism because all history that's not US is deemed useless here and thus glossed over.   

[Ichirou]

Its still up on Netflix.  And yeah, its great, but its not great-great.  I might be afraid of overselling it, but rest assured, it doesn't suck.

It's good stuff, in that it works on several different levels: a suspense flick, a meditation on the loss of childhood innocence, a historical document about kidnappings in Italy in the '70s (very prevalent during that period), etc.  And it's Gabriele Salvatores (Mediterraneo), so you know it's gonna be a beautiful-looking film.

My dad grew up in Spain during Franco's reign, times were fucked up back then, TVC.  There's a lot of Spanish TV dramas nowadays that deal with that time period, it's a very popular period to explore since things were so dangerous back then, with so much political repression.

[TVC15]

My dad grew up in Spain during Franco's reign, times were fucked up back then, TVC.  There's a lot of Spanish TV dramas nowadays that deal with that time period, it's a very popular period to explore since things were so dangerous back then, with so much political repression.

Being a non-dumbass, I've done a little reading on it, and that's why I'm kind of outraged that it's so glossed over in history books.  Franco's Spain seems like it was just about North Korea bad, but nobody in America today knows that.  If you look closely, it's like Spain is non-existent in 20th century history books, as if people want it ignored.  It's where the most evil of forms of governments eeked out a powerful existence for like 30-40 years.  And it seemed like none of the world players really gave a fuck about it.

[Ichirou]

Franco was very careful not to make international waves after the Spanish Civil War.  He essentially sat Spain out of World War II, for example (while nominally allied to the Axis powers).

[TVC15]

Franco was very careful not to make international waves after the Spanish Civil War.  He essentially sat Spain out of World War II, for example (while nominally allied to the Axis powers).

IIRC (it's been a while) he kind of got the privilege of avoiding Cold War nonsense because he was adamantly anti-commie (as fascists tend to be). 

Cria Cuervos appears really well done, too.  It doesn't have the gut-punching accuracy of what it's like to be a kid, but it's got angels in regards to the imagination of children.  You mix of Spirit of the Beehive and this in a pot and you definitely have the inspiration for Pan's. Spirit seems about the character of Ana, Cria appears to be more about the situation.

[Ichirou]

Yeah, he was anti-Communist to the extreme. 

It's really remarkable how swift and relatively painless the transition to democracy was after his death.  You look at Spain now, and it's a completely different country, exceedingly liberal (legalized gay marriage a few years ago, which an overwhelming majority of the country was in favor of - as a Spanish citizen, I was really proud) and well governed.

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, Franco's reign in Spain is considered a non-existant happy time in American history books or something.  Seriously, I think the first time that CrystalGemini or rodi heard there was a facist ruler and civil war in Spain was when they watched Pan's Labyrinth.

[Ichirou]

I was reading Wiki and apparently the US was allied with Franco because he was anti-Commie and they were in the middle of the Cold War, and it was good to have an ally in that part of Europe at the time.  So I imagine they don't really want to let the kiddies at school now that the US had decades-long close ties to a repressive European dictatorship.

I'd also like to know how high school history in America discusses the Spanish American War, since the Americans basically started that one just so they could take Spain's colonies in the Americas.

[Robo]

I'd also like to know how high school history in America discusses the Spanish American War, since the Americans basically started that one just so they could take Spain's colonies in the Americas.

REMEMBER THE ALAMO!

I think that about covers it.

[Eric P]

I'd also like to know how high school history in America discusses the Spanish American War, since the Americans basically started that one just so they could take Spain's colonies in the Americas.

REMEMBER THE ALAMO!

I think that about covers it.

wrong war

[Robo]

I believe that's indicitive of how well it's covered.

Although, I sort of had that on the tongue.  I was reading yesterday about how Jim Bowie gutted a Lousiana sheriff during a post-duel skermish after being stabbed in the chest with a CANE SWORD, clubbed on the head with pistol and shot several times, and eventually chased off the rest of his opposition with his gigantic knife.  AMERICAN HERO

[Phoenix Dark]

The only time Spain gets covered in US history books is when they were getting owned by us in wars, or killing off indians in South America. Shame

[Eric P]

The only time Spain gets covered in US history books is when they were getting owned by us in wars, or killing off indians in South America. Shame

or introducing africans to american slavery.

[Phoenix Dark]

slavery...in history books? 

[TVC15]

I'd also like to know how high school history in America discusses the Spanish American War, since the Americans basically started that one just so they could take Spain's colonies in the Americas.

I'm assuming that my education from a public high school was education to specification--that what my general high school history classes taught me is fairly typical as that of most Americans that went to US high school.

The Spanish-American war was barely covered at all.  And while it is acknowledged that we went to war for the wrong reasons, the primary blame is placed on yellow journalism, and not on any sort of imperialism.

I really don't know a ton about that war outside of "remember the maine."

[Eric P]

slavery...in history books? 

there's a sealed section to be opened only in February

[Ichirou]

I'd also like to know how high school history in America discusses the Spanish American War, since the Americans basically started that one just so they could take Spain's colonies in the Americas.

I'm assuming that my education from a public high school was education to specification--that what my general high school history classes taught me is fairly typical as that of most Americans that went to US high school.

The Spanish-American war was barely covered at all.  And while it is acknowledged that we went to war for the wrong reasons, the primary blame is placed on yellow journalism, and not on any sort of imperialism.

I really don't know a ton about that war outside of "remember the maine."

Ah, yes, the whole Maine incident, which is what set the whole thing off - did the history class mention that the so-called Spanish sabotage that destroyed the Maine turned out to be an internal malfunction and had nothing to do with Spanish intervention?  Though some scholars nowadays theorize it may have actually been done by the US itself to give the country an excuse to go to war and expand its territory out onto the Caribbean.

The Spanish-American War is really interesting to study - I mean, it had so many consequences for the US throughout the 20th century.  Fidel Castro probably would never have been in power in the first place if the US hadn't taken over Cuba and set up a corrupt puppet government there.