Author Topic: IRON LORE CLOSES  (Read 2134 times)

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Howard Alan Treesong

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IRON LORE CLOSES
« on: February 28, 2008, 12:47:02 PM »
http://www.ironlore.com/

Quote
It is with great regret that we must announce that as of close of business Tuesday, February 19, 2008 Iron Lore Entertainment has ceased active game development. Several unrelated events occurred which resulted in Iron Lore being unable to secure funding for its next project.

We would like to extend our thanks to everyone who has helped us in the last seven years – our team who moved mountains to create such great games, our publisher THQ who has been a great partner through three product development cycles, and most of all our customers and fans. We owe all of the success we’ve had to you, and our greatest satisfaction has come from creating games that have given enjoyment to the community.

While Iron Lore will not continue, the talent of the team is embodied in the individuals now available for other opportunities. If you are a developer or publisher looking to hire top-notch experienced developers, please send an email to pchieffo “at” ironlore “dot” com and we will be happy to facilitate recruiting with you.

Iron Lore also owns it’s powerful and flexible engine and tool set, and is actively pursuing licensing opportunities. If you are interested in further information about the technology and licensing options, please contact pchieffo “at” ironlore “dot” com.

FUCK SHIT DAMN PISS FUCK

They will be missed. :(  :usacry
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Eric P

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2008, 12:48:48 PM »
that's a shame.

i'd love to see a vietnam based dungeon hack

Tonya

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2008, 12:51:44 PM »
one of my dream game designs that I always wonder why no one has done is

third-person squad-based ARPG dungeon hack set during WWII with paranormal elements

Wolfenstein meets squad-based tactics meets loot tables

seriously! MAKE THIS GAME
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Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2008, 12:55:36 PM »
Does this look like a dungeon hack? Or any good?



smh

keep your shitty JRPGs out of my dream design!
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Smooth Groove

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2008, 12:58:37 PM »
ha ha, at this rate Patel will be a fan of bald space marines by the time Gears of War 2 is released. 

Eric P

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2008, 01:19:27 PM »
one of my dream game designs that I always wonder why no one has done is

third-person squad-based ARPG dungeon hack set during WWII with paranormal elements

Wolfenstein meets squad-based tactics meets loot tables

seriously! MAKE THIS GAME

i don't even need the paranormal elements.

loot tables, guns
Tonya

T234

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2008, 01:27:02 PM »
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
UK

Eel O'Brian

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2008, 01:56:11 PM »
one of my dream game designs that I always wonder why no one has done is

third-person squad-based ARPG dungeon hack set during WWII with paranormal elements

Wolfenstein meets squad-based tactics meets loot tables

seriously! MAKE THIS GAME

I'd play the shit out of that game
sup

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2008, 01:58:05 PM »
one of my dream game designs that I always wonder why no one has done is

third-person squad-based ARPG dungeon hack set during WWII with paranormal elements

Wolfenstein meets squad-based tactics meets loot tables

seriously! MAKE THIS GAME

i don't even need the paranormal elements.

loot tables, guns

I was gonna say, then how will you throw fireballs at things?

then I remembered: flamethrowers!

I think the paranormal elements would give it a fun-ass twist but they're not really necessary. maybe you could do a fun tone where it's implied paranormal elements in the background but you only ever see the "real" stuff on the surface.

anyway: IronLore, boo hoo
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Eel O'Brian

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2008, 02:00:47 PM »
no, no, paranormal elements are a must, so you can hear your little guys go "WHAT THE HELL'S GOIN' ON HERE, SARGE?!?!?!?"
sup

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2008, 02:02:16 PM »
"I DUNNO, MEN, BUT IF IT MOVES--WE CAN SHOOT IT!"

« Last Edit: February 28, 2008, 02:07:13 PM by Synthesizer Patel »
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Van Cruncheon

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2008, 02:02:34 PM »
 :usacry :usacry :usacry
duc

Eric P

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2008, 02:03:10 PM »
that would be great

or you could just do a videogame version of tannhauser

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/tannhauser_settings.html

Quote
TANNHÄUSER is a world a step removed from our own, a u-chronic timeline where things happened just slightly differently …
but over time, a small change can have a large effect. In the world of TANNHÄUSER, the Great War (the war we know as World War I) never ended. Neither the forces of the Kaiser’s Reich nor the brave soldiers of the Union have been able to achieve the supremacy necessary to secure victory. Now it is 1949, and both sides search desperately for a weapon to use against their foes and tip the scales of war in their favor. The fruits of recent advances in science and technology are rushed into service without adequate testing. In long-forgotten ruins of dead civilizations, men dig for the secrets that killed them. Beyond the reach of men, ancient horrors wait to be invoked.

Tonya

Eel O'Brian

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2008, 02:03:50 PM »
shit i need to read that sgt. rock comic

i love how in the old comics he punches out more nazis than he shoots
sup

Eel O'Brian

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2008, 02:06:57 PM »
holy shit i need to play that game

i wish there was a video game version of creature commandos



weird war tales ruled
sup

demi

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2008, 02:07:37 PM »
I'm on it! I will put these talented people to good use
fat

Eel O'Brian

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2008, 02:09:09 PM »
 :bow demi  :bow2
sup

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2008, 02:10:35 PM »
Good luck, demi!

I've already notified all the leads within my company and told them, "Hey, if you have any positions need fillin' fast-like...these guys got da Motts!"
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recursivelyenumerable

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2008, 02:12:58 PM »
Quote
third-person squad-based ARPG dungeon hack set during WWII with paranormal elements
seriously! MAKE THIS GAME

OK, although I will make a point of also including long unskippable monologues about the nature of war
QED

Eric P

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2008, 02:13:49 PM »
holy shit i need to play that game

i wish there was a video game version of creature commandos

(Image removed from quote.)

weird war tales ruled

all of those DC titles are great

my favorite is probably still sgt rock though.

but all the secondary things like haunted tank, war that time forgot and stuff are also pretty awesome
Tonya

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2008, 02:16:28 PM »
I bet if we get the Sgt. Rock license, we can totally trick Marketing into funding our ARPG WWII squad-based game

just never say "RPG" or "stat" out loud and they won't be any the wiser
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Eric P

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2008, 02:21:19 PM »
i bet the fatalism of CoD4 has opened the way for more mature takes on war tales

and by more mature i mean something more evolved than "USA RULES!  WAR IS AWESOME! PEW PEW PEW"
Tonya

Eel O'Brian

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2008, 02:31:56 PM »
holy shit i need to play that game

i wish there was a video game version of creature commandos

(Image removed from quote.)

weird war tales ruled

all of those DC titles are great

my favorite is probably still sgt rock though.

but all the secondary things like haunted tank, war that time forgot and stuff are also pretty awesome

when i finish the suspense series (still working on it, i swear!)  i will throw a disc in there with some .cbrs of the few weird wars + etc. that i have
sup

Eel O'Brian

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2008, 02:34:33 PM »
i've always wanted a WWII game where if your squadmates died, you'd be issued replacements and that would be reflected in the story, instead of that bullshit in BiA where they just magically come back to life in the next level
sup

MrAngryFace

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2008, 02:35:21 PM »
*salute*
o_0

Eric P

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2008, 02:43:40 PM »
holy shit i need to play that game

i wish there was a video game version of creature commandos

(Image removed from quote.)

weird war tales ruled

all of those DC titles are great

my favorite is probably still sgt rock though.

but all the secondary things like haunted tank, war that time forgot and stuff are also pretty awesome

when i finish the suspense series (still working on it, i swear!)  i will throw a disc in there with some .cbrs of the few weird wars + etc. that i have

oh man just check out josua13's archives on h33t.com

guy is a DC digital archivist who started on demonoid but has since moved

the guy has amassed some incredible runs of stuff
Tonya

Eel O'Brian

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2008, 02:51:26 PM »

oh man just check out josua13's archives on h33t.com

guy is a DC digital archivist who started on demonoid but has since moved

the guy has amassed some incredible runs of stuff

sweet, bookmarked

I have about 250 gigs of old comics (I don't really download newer stuff), and I have a short box full of golden age comics i am in the (slow) process of scanning/archiving, so if you're looking for anything in particular let me know and I will see if I have it and burn a disc for you

I'm going to try and finish that suspense run this weekend and send it off on monday, just been crazy busy at work this past week or so
sup

Eric P

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2008, 03:08:46 PM »
i'm trying to find the blue beetle and blue devil runs from the 80s if you have them
Tonya

demi

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #28 on: February 29, 2008, 12:24:27 AM »
So, ILE shut down. This is tangentially related to that, not why they shut down, but part of why it was such a difficult freaking slog trying not to. It's a rough, rough world out there for independent studios who want to make big games, even worse if you're single-team and don't have a successful franchise to ride or a wealthy benefactor. Trying to make it on PC product is even tougher, and here's why.

Piracy. Yeah, that's right, I said it. No, I don't want to re-hash the endless "piracy spreads awareness", "I only pirate because there's no demo", "people who pirate wouldn't buy the game anyway" round-robin. Been there, done that. I do want to point to a couple of things, though.

One, there are other costs to piracy than just lost sales. For example, with TQ, the game was pirated and released on the nets before it hit stores. It was a fairly quick-and-dirty crack job, and in fact, it missed a lot of the copy-protection that was in the game. One of the copy-protection routines was keyed off the quest system, for example. You could start the game just fine, but when the quest triggered, it would do a security check, and dump you out if you had a pirated copy. There was another one in the streaming routine. So, it's a couple of days before release, and I start seeing people on the forums complaining about how buggy the game is, how it crashes all the time. A lot of people are talking about how it crashes right when you come out of the first cave. Yeah, that's right. There was a security check there.

So, before the game even comes out, we've got people bad-mouthing it because their pirated copies crash, even though a legitimate copy won't. We took a lot of shit on this, completely undeserved mind you. How many people decided to pick up the pirated version because it had this reputation and they didn't want to risk buying something that didn't work? Talk about your self-fulfilling prophecy.

One guy went so far as to say he'd bought the retail game and it was having the exact same crashes, so it must be the game itself. This was one of the most vocal detractors, and we got into it a little bit. He swore up and down that he'd done everything above-board, installed it on a clean machine, updated everything, still getting the same crashes. It was our fault, we were stupid, our programmers didn't know how to make games - some other guy asked "do they code with their feet?". About a week later, he realized that he'd forgotten to re-install his BIOS update after he wiped the machine. He fixed that, all his crashes went away. At least he was man enough to admit it.

So, for a game that doesn't have a Madden-sized advertising budget, word of mouth is your biggest hope, and here we are, before the game even releases, getting bashed to hell and gone by people who can't even be bothered to actually pay for the game. What was the ultimate impact of that? Hard to measure, but it did get mentioned in several reviews. Think about that the next time you read "we didn't have any problems running the game, but there are reports on the internet that people are having crashes."

Two, the numbers on piracy are really astonishing. The research I've seen pegs the piracy rate at between 70-85% on PC in the US, 90%+ in Europe, off the charts in Asia. I didn't believe it at first. It seemed way too high. Then I saw that Bioshock was selling 5 to 1 on console vs. PC. And Call of Duty 4 was selling 10 to 1. These are hardcore games, shooters, classic PC audience stuff. Given the difference in install base, I can't believe that there's that big of a difference in who played these games, but I guess there can be in who actually payed for them.

Let's dig a little deeper there. So, if 90% of your audience is stealing your game, even if you got a little bit more, say 10% of that audience to change their ways and pony up, what's the difference in income? Just about double. That's right, double. That's easily the difference between commercial failure and success. That's definitely the difference between doing okay and founding a lasting franchise. Even if you cut that down to 1% - 1 out of every hundred people who are pirating the game - who would actually buy the game, that's still a 10% increase in revenue. Again, that's big enough to make the difference between breaking even and making a profit.

Titan Quest did okay. We didn't lose money on it. But if even a tiny fraction of the people who pirated the game had actually spent some god-damn money for their 40+ hours of entertainment, things could have been very different today. You can bitch all you want about how piracy is your god-given right, and none of it matters anyway because you can't change how people behave... whatever. Some really good people made a seriously good game, and they might still be in business if piracy weren't so rampant on the PC. That's a fact.

Enough about piracy. Let's talk about hardware vendors. Trying to make a game for PC is a freaking nightmare, and these guys make it harder all the time. Integrated video chips; integrated audio. These were two of our biggest headaches. Not only does this crap make people think - and wrongly - that they have a gaming-capable PC when they don't, the drive to get the cheapest components inevitably means you've got hardware out there with little or no driver support, marginal adherence to standards, and sometimes bizarre conflicts with other hardware.

And it just keeps getting worse. CD/DVD drives with bad firmware, video cards that look like they should be a step-up from a previous generation, but actually aren't, drivers that need to be constantly updated, separate rendering paths for optimizing on different chips, oh my god. Put together consumers who want the cheapest equipment possible with the best performance, manufacturers who don't give a shit what happens to their equipment once they ship it, and assemblers who need to work their margins everywhere possible, and you get a lot of shitty hardware out there, in innumerable configurations that you can't possibly test against. But, it's always the game's fault when something doesn't work.

Even if you get over the hump on hardware compatibility - and god knows, the hardware vendors are constantly making it worse - if you can, you still need to deal with software conflicts. There are a lot of apps running on people's machines that they're not even aware of, or have become such a part of the computer they don't even think of them as being apps anymore. IM that's always on; peer-to-peer clients running in the background; not to mention the various adware and malware crap that people pick up doing things they really shouldn't. Trying to run a CPU and memory heavy app in that environment is a nightmare. But, again, it's always the game's fault if it doesn't work.

Which brings me to the audience. There's a lot of stupid people out there. Now, don't get me wrong, there's a lot of very savvy people out there, too, and there were some great folks in the TQ community who helped us out a lot. But, there's a lot of stupid people. Basic, basic stuff, like updating your drivers, or de-fragging your hard drive, or having antivirus so your machine isn't a teetering pile of rogue programs. PC folks want to have the freedom to do whatever the hell they want with their machines, and god help them they will do it; more power to them, really. But god forbid something that they've done - or failed to do - creates a problem with your game. There are few better examples of the "it can't possibly be my fault" culture in the west than gaming forums.

And while I'm at it, I don't want to spare the reviewers either. We had one reviewer - I won't name names, you can find it if you look hard enough - who missed the fact that you can teleport from wherever you are in TQ back to any of the major towns you've visited. So, this guy was hand-carting all of his stuff back to town every time his inventory was full. Through the entire game. Now, not only was this in the manual, and in the roll-over tooltips for the UI, but it was also in the tutorial, the very first time you walk past one of these giant pads that lights up like a beacon to the heavens. Nonetheless, he missed it, and he commented in his review how tedious this was and how much he missed being able to portal back to town. When we - and lots of our fans - pointed out that this was the reviewer's fault, not the game's, they amended the review. But, they didn't change the score. Do you honestly think that not having to run back to town all the time to sell your stuff wouldn't have made the game a better experience?

We had another reviewer who got crashes on both the original and the expansion pack. We worked with him to figure out what was going on; the first time, it was an obscure peripheral that was causing the crash, a classic hardware conflict for a type of hardware that very, very few people have. The second time, it was in a pre-release build that we had told him was pre-release. After identifying the problem, getting him around it, and verifying that the bug was a known issue and had been fixed in the interim, he still ran the story with a prominent mention of this bug. With friends like that...

Alright, I'm done. Making PC products is not all fun and games. It's an uphill slog, definitely. I'm a lifelong PC gamer, and hope to continue to work on PC games in the future, but man, they sure don't make it easy.

Best,
Michael.
fat

demi

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #29 on: February 29, 2008, 12:29:28 AM »
Hopefully this wakes up PC devs and gets them to put their games on console

That's right, your game could sell, developers!
fat

Smooth Groove

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #30 on: February 29, 2008, 12:31:51 AM »
They just need to put more games on Steam at lower prices.  I feel bad for the guy but I'm not sure if his numbers are correct.  Most of the legitimate sales of Crysis are supposedly due to Europe. 

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #31 on: February 29, 2008, 12:47:21 AM »
I feel for them, I really do, but that message reads like so much sour grapes. :(
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ToxicAdam

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #32 on: February 29, 2008, 01:13:13 AM »
In the end, TQ is just another Diablo clone. It's not like it fucking reinvented the genre.

PC gamers are pretty jaded and cautious. You have to have a great track record for them to buy a game at full price.

Van Cruncheon

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #33 on: February 29, 2008, 01:25:57 AM »
piracy levels are obscene, though. seriously, people need to start paying for shit, or devs need to move to pure digital distribution.
duc

MrAngryFace

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #34 on: February 29, 2008, 01:27:56 AM »
TQ is an EXCELLENT Diablo clone in an OCEAN of SHIT Diablo clones. Save your elitist cards for the shit that deserves it.
o_0

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #35 on: February 29, 2008, 01:28:31 AM »
yeah, TQ is a Diablo clone, but it's not "just another" Diablo clone--it's the only once since Diablo II to be worth two shits.
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demi

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #36 on: February 29, 2008, 01:33:59 AM »
piracy levels are obscene, though. seriously, people need to start paying for shit, or devs need to move to pure digital distribution.

I would have bought it for 360, it ain't my fault they didn't want my sale
fat

Smooth Groove

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #37 on: February 29, 2008, 01:36:21 AM »
WTF, PC gamers?  Buy a PSP or DS if you want free games. 

ToxicAdam

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #38 on: February 29, 2008, 02:15:37 AM »
TQ wasn't an "excellent" Diablo clone until the expansion showed up.


TVC15

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #39 on: February 29, 2008, 02:17:42 AM »
that would be great

or you could just do a videogame version of tannhauser

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/tannhauser_settings.html

Quote
TANNHÄUSER is a world a step removed from our own, a u-chronic timeline where things happened just slightly differently …
but over time, a small change can have a large effect. In the world of TANNHÄUSER, the Great War (the war we know as World War I) never ended. Neither the forces of the Kaiser’s Reich nor the brave soldiers of the Union have been able to achieve the supremacy necessary to secure victory. Now it is 1949, and both sides search desperately for a weapon to use against their foes and tip the scales of war in their favor. The fruits of recent advances in science and technology are rushed into service without adequate testing. In long-forgotten ruins of dead civilizations, men dig for the secrets that killed them. Beyond the reach of men, ancient horrors wait to be invoked.



I'VE SEEN THINGS YOU PEOPLE WOULDN'T BELIEVE. SONY FANBOYS DEFENDING UNCHARTED. I WATCHED DIABLO CLONES GET PIRATED IN THE DARK NEAR THE TANNHAUSER GATE. ALL THOSE MOMENTS WILL BE LOST IN TIME, LIKE TEARS IN RAIN. IRON LORE, TIME TO DIE
serge

Smooth Groove

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Re: IRON LORE CLOSES
« Reply #40 on: February 29, 2008, 02:21:36 AM »
:lol

I wish I could write like TVC.