Home schoolers owned; may be criminalized if they teach without certifications.

[Ichirou]

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1720697,00.html

Criminalizing Home Schoolers
Friday, Mar. 07, 2008 By KRISTIN KLOBERDANZ/MODESTO

Parents of the approximately 200,000 home-schooled children in California are reeling from the possibility that they may have to shutter their classrooms — and go back to school themselves — if they want to continue teaching their own kids. On Feb. 28, Judge H. Walter Croskey of the Second District Court of Appeals in Los Angeles ruled that children ages six to 18 may be taught only by credentialed teachers in public or private schools — or at home by Mom and Dad, but only if they have a teaching degree. Citing state law that goes back to the early 1950s, Croskey declared that "California courts have held that under provisions in the Education Code, parents do not have a constitutional right to home school their children." Furthermore, the judge wrote, if instructors teach without credentials they will be subject to criminal action.

This news raised a furor among home schooling advocates, including government officials. "Every California child deserves a quality education and parents should have the right to decide what's best for their children," Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger said in a statement today. "Parents should not be penalized for acting in the best interests of their children's education. This outrageous ruling must be overturned by the courts and if the courts don't protect parents' rights then, as elected officials, we will." "It's kind of scary," says Julie Beth Lamb, an Oakdale, California, parent who, with no teaching credentials, has taught her four children for 15 years. "If that ruling is held up, this would make us one of the most restrictive states in the nation."

The debacle originated with a suit over child abuse. One of the eight children of Philip and Mary Long, a Los Angeles couple, had filed a complaint of abuse and neglect with the L.A. Department of Children and Family Services. The agency determined that the Long children were being home schooled, taught by their uncredentialed mother while officially enrolled in independent study at Sunland Christian School. The DCFS then turned to the courts to mandate that the children attend public school so that teachers might spot evidence of abuse (a charge the parents deny). A juvenile court, however, determined that the Longs had a constitutional right to home school their children. The DCFS appealed and the case landed in Croskey's appellate court.

For years, the state of California has allowed parents to home school as long as they file papers to create a private school and hire a tutor with credentials or if their child participates in an independent study program through a credentialed school. In evaluating the Long case, however, Judge Croskey found that state law forbade any home schooling that was not taught by a credentialed teacher and that what California had been allowing was, in his judicial opinion, illegal. In 1953, another appellate court ruled against home-schooling parents who didn't want to adhere to California's compulsory education laws, which require kids between six and 18 to attend a credentialed school. The current case is most likely to be appealed to California's Supreme Court.

"We weren't trying to change the law on home schooling," says Leslie Heimov of the Children's Law Center, which represents the Long children involved in the case. "The law is accurate — it hasn't changed since the 1950s." She says the Center does not even have an opinion on home schooling. They just wanted to do what was best for the children represented in the case.

The fact that this sweeping ruling has sprung from such an individualized case is what has most outraged home schooling advocates. "Public schools are not a solution to the problem of child abuse," says Leslie Buchanan, president of the HomeSchool Association of California. Jack O'Connell, California State Superintendent of Public Instruction — the equivalent of a department of education — now faces the potential crisis of dealing with tens of thousands of truants. Does he know what will happen next? "I honestly don't know," O'Connell says, adding that his department is reviewing the case. "There is some angst in the field."

Owned.

[Powerslave]

0WN3D

[Human Snorenado]

A repudiation of home skooling can only be seen as a repudiation of Pee Dee.  I fully endorse this.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Keeping Creationism out and kids in!

[Ichirou]

I'm laughing at the thought of all the Christian fundies freaking out when they realize their child may have to go to a public school and share a classroom with the heathen muslims and learn about evolution.

[Candyflip]

Aren't home schooled kids statistically "smarter" on average? Or is that a load of shit. Not that it would mean a whole lot anyway.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Aren't home schooled kids statistically "smarter" on average?

yes*

spoiler (click to show/hide)

*"smarter" = "more socially autistic"

[close]

[Phoenix Dark]

Aren't home schooled kids statistically "smarter" on average? Or is that a load of shit. Not that it would mean a whole lot anyway.

On average they have higher test scores. Some would argue that doesn't mean they're "smarter" but at the least they aren't behind public school kids. The law is bullshit; parents should have the right to educate their own children.

I'd imagine the HSLD is going to win this case as usual though, so I won't fret

[CajoleJuice]

I swear to God, every time I read one of your posts now, I think The Dark Shake has returned. Your avatar looks like him in the corner of my eye.

[Ichirou]

Aren't home schooled kids statistically "smarter" on average? Or is that a load of shit. Not that it would mean a whole lot anyway.

On average they have higher test scores. Some would argue that doesn't mean they're "smarter" but at the least they aren't behind public school kids. The law is bullshit; parents should have the right to educate their own children.

I'd imagine the HSLD is going to win this case as usual though, so I won't fret

Under California law, would your parents be in prison?

[Phoenix Dark]

Aren't home schooled kids statistically "smarter" on average? Or is that a load of shit. Not that it would mean a whole lot anyway.

On average they have higher test scores. Some would argue that doesn't mean they're "smarter" but at the least they aren't behind public school kids. The law is bullshit; parents should have the right to educate their own children.

I'd imagine the HSLD is going to win this case as usual though, so I won't fret

Under California law, would your parents be in prison?

My brothers aren't home schooled anymore. They're now in the HS/college hybrid I graduated from
http://www.themiddlecollege.org/needToknow/program.html

I know a couple homeschool families in California but I haven't talked to them in awhile. I'll have to ask my mom if she's heard anything. Something similar to this almost happened in NY and Michigan iirc and it was resolved; the families refused to send their kids to public school, and I'd imagine the same will happen in California.

[Ichirou]

PD, are your parents qualified to teach?

[Phoenix Dark]

PD, are your parents qualified to teach?

My dad graduated from the University of Michigan's medical school at the top of his class and has his own dental practice. My mom has a college degree. I would argue that both are just as qualified as any low paid teacher who doesn't give a shit.

Not every homeschooled kid has parents like mine - although studies have shown that homeschool parents make more money on average then the parents of public school children. Money doesn't equal good teaching of course, but it's ludicrous to suggest a child can only get a good education from a board certified teacher.

[Human Snorenado]

jesus - who on earth would want to be home schooled?

Go to school, you get social skills, sports etc... you might make *gasp* some friends!

Also, you might meet members of the opposite sex you're not related to.  I don't know PD's stance on that, tho.

[brawndolicious]

jesus - who on earth would want to be home schooled?
Go to school, you get social skills, sports etc... you might make *gasp* some friends!

In my case I never wanted to but I really had no choice I had people in my school threating my life and nothing serious was done because they had no solid proof. My mom couldn't afford for me to goto a school anywhere else plus with me home she could do more during the day plus make sure I'm learning and not playing catch up in some of my classes.
Only thing I lack in is the number of friends. Then again, do I really want friends that would pretend I never existed if I went away for awhile?

I'm guessing you're socially distinguished mentally-challenged but I'm not going to assume anything.

I think to be a teacher you only have to have a college degree and to take a certain test or something so a lot of parents may qualify but the main benefit of public school is that you build organization and teamwork skills.

[Phoenix Dark]

jesus - who on earth would want to be home schooled?
Go to school, you get social skills, sports etc... you might make *gasp* some friends!

In my case I never wanted to but I really had no choice I had people in my school threating my life and nothing serious was done because they had no solid proof. My mom couldn't afford for me to goto a school anywhere else plus with me home she could do more during the day plus make sure I'm learning and not playing catch up in some of my classes.
Only thing I lack in is the number of friends. Then again, do I really want friends that would pretend I never existed if I went away for awhile?

I'm guessing you're socially distinguished mentally-challenged but I'm not going to assume anything.

I think to be a teacher you only have to have a college degree and to take a certain test or something so a lot of parents may qualify but the main benefit of public school is that you build organization and teamwork skills.

I hate when people insinuate that social skills and teamwork can only be achieved in a class room.

[Human Snorenado]

jesus - who on earth would want to be home schooled?
Go to school, you get social skills, sports etc... you might make *gasp* some friends!

In my case I never wanted to but I really had no choice I had people in my school threating my life and nothing serious was done because they had no solid proof. My mom couldn't afford for me to goto a school anywhere else plus with me home she could do more during the day plus make sure I'm learning and not playing catch up in some of my classes.
Only thing I lack in is the number of friends. Then again, do I really want friends that would pretend I never existed if I went away for awhile?

I'm guessing you're socially distinguished mentally-challenged but I'm not going to assume anything.

I think to be a teacher you only have to have a college degree and to take a certain test or something so a lot of parents may qualify but the main benefit of public school is that you build organization and teamwork skills.

I hate when people insinuate that social skills and teamwork can only be achieved in a class room.

That's right, there's always Church, eh PD? 

[Ichirou]

PR had people threatening to kill him, that's why he was pulled out of public school.  I think that's an acceptable reason, as far as reasons go.

[brawndolicious]

ichi, he may be exaggerating.  he did once say he was the only white guy allowed to say "nigg@" in a certain section of D.C. and I mean we were all like that at his age so I'm guessing it's either because of social depression or fear of humiliation that he decided to go with homeschooling.

I hate when people insinuate that social skills and teamwork can only be achieved in a class room.

it is a preventative measure to make sure the kid is able to function well with other students.  if you have social problems, somebody besides mommy or daddy is going to notice.

PD, what did you learn about evolution before you went to high school and did your parents tell you "it doesn't matter because it's not true" or anything like that?  did they give you a decent amount of info on how the evolutionary theory was made and why it's at least interesting?

I mean the only time I've ever heard ANY argument whatsoever against evolution in my life (whether at school, mosque, home, etc.) from somebody I know is when a zealous christian turned to me and said that it is dumb and that I should not believe in it.

[Ichirou]

PD believes in evolution, I think.  He just thinks that it was guided by God's hands.

[brawndolicious]

PD believes in evolution, I think.  He just thinks that it was guided by God's hands.

...how?

that's like missing the point of faith and the scientific theory.

[Ichirou]

How so?  He believes in evolution (scientific theory).  On faith, he thinks that evolution was guided by a higher power (faith).

[brawndolicious]

I'm sorry, I didn't know all of that PR. :'(

How so?  He believes in evolution (scientific theory).  On faith, he thinks that evolution was guided by a higher power (faith).

the way ST works is that you use physical evidence to prove something, and there's no evidence AT ALL for god buttfucking mary or whatever so he's missing the point of the scientific theory.  I don't know what to say about his faith other than that it kind of sounds like he would be a chickenshit.

[Powerslave]

That sounds horrible, PR.

[Ichirou]

I'm sorry, I didn't know all of that PR. :'(

How so?  He believes in evolution (scientific theory).  On faith, he thinks that evolution was guided by a higher power (faith).

the way ST works is that you use physical evidence to prove something, and there's no evidence AT ALL for god buttfucking mary or whatever so he's missing the point of the scientific theory.  I don't know what to say about his faith other than that it kind of sounds like he would be a chickenshit.

Uhm, he's not believing that God is responsible for evolution because of scientific theory.  He's believing that on faith.  There is a crucial distinction there.

[Cormacaroni]

I hate when people insinuate that social skills and teamwork can only be achieved in a class room.

i'd say you are a damn sight more likely to develop those skills in a class room where you have to spend a good XX years of your life, so - yes - the class room IS a vastly better environment to learn these skills.

Intrigued by the concept of Cumbrian 'social skills' - do elaborate.

[brawndolicious]

Uhm, he's not believing that God is responsible for evolution because of scientific theory.  He's believing that on faith.  There is a crucial distinction there.

so you think that PD believes that evolution was guided by god's hands, but that god has left absolutely no clue for anybody to be able to back that theory up scientifically?  that wouldn't be believing in the scientific theory then.  that's just a politically correct way to say that you have no interest whatsoever in becoming an evolutionary biologist.

[Ichirou]

That's sorta the point of faith, dude.  It can't be proven empirically.

[Cormacaroni]

Intrigued by the concept of Cumbrian 'social skills' - do elaborate.

I think the last people who should be making cracks about social skills are the Irish!

We might be bottom of the league, but we're only a couple of points behind the irish ... and we've a game in hand.

Or is it the Welsh? i can't tell....

Are we not renowned the world over for our humor, our gregariousness, our music, literature and poetry?

All the rest of it is easily excused by 'drunken high spirits', even the knee-cappings.

[brawndolicious]

That's sorta the point of faith, dude.  It can't be proven empirically.

people who have faith don't usually feel the need to avoid proof..I mean having faith isn't the same thing as making up weird scientific theories just so your minister still loves you.  which is why I said: he's missing the point of faith and the scientific theory.

[Eric P]

ichi, he may be exaggerating.  he did once say he was the only white guy allowed to say "nigg@" in a certain section of D.C. and I mean we were all like that at his age so I'm guessing it's either because of social depression or fear of humiliation that he decided to go with homeschooling.

I wasn't serious about the N word thing but I could get away with alot that whitey normally couldn't. I am however serious about my school problems. I used to sit on the bus listening to my white people CDs and I'd get called out and told that I'd get my ass kicked. Luckily, one of the girls on the bus, who was a grade higher then me was nice enough to keep them from beating my ass.

My mom pulled me out of school because of all the shit I'd get. I would get chased home, spit on and all types of shit. The day my mother took me up to get my shit was great. The guidance consoler pulled my mother to the side and told her how one of my class mates was overheard talking about how he'd fuck me up and shit.

Middle School was awful. I'm glad I did the home schooling thing.

sounds a lot like my public school experience, except in middle school and highschool for a semester before being sent to military school

so i can sympathize

[cloudwalking]

i basically homeschooled myself through the last half of high school. it was the best thing i ever did, but i didn't do it for the reasons most people do (religious beliefs, bad public schools, etc.)

i made a post at gaf about it which i'll just copy and paste here:

i was homeschooled through my last 2 1/2 years of high school, and due to my parents both working full time, i did the vast majority of my studies alone.

all throughout my time in school my parents had fought for accelerated learning curriculums. school was always too "easy" for me, and they looked for anything that could help me move forward and be challenged. the schools could never deliver. they did a bunch of bullshit tests to determine if i was "gifted," teachers offered to give me more work, they forced me to take classes in a different language. all useless, when the base problem was with the curriculum itself.

schools spend tons of money on special education for the mentally challenged, those with adhd, and other learning disabilities. but they don't spend a penny on any sort of accelerated learning courses for those children who do learn fast.

they would ask "well, if school is so easy for you, why are you complaining? there are plenty of kids who have to struggle for every point they make on a test -- you should consider yourself lucky."

when i became older and was sick and tired of being unhappy with my education and seeing my parents fight with the school systems, i sat down and wrote a formal letter to the principal of my high school, voicing my concerns and resigning from the school. with my parents support, i drafted a homeschool curriculum.

i finished in one year what it took the rest of my friends 2 1/2 years to complete. it took discipline, especially since i had a job and friends as well. for the first time i felt confident and happy with my education.

unfortunately, in the end it didn't benefit me other than giving me a lot of free time with which to do a lot of travelling -- i moved so much after high school that i never bothered going to college after i applied.

[Phoenix Dark]

Am Nintenho: We learned about evolution extensively. It wasn't in our curriculum but my mom was advised to add it; basically we learned the basic aspects of the theory and Christian talking points to combat it lol. But on a serious note, evolution isn't a subject important enough to determine public education>home schooling. The only subject that was clearly biased in our curriculum was history/politics, but luckily my parents are somewhat moderate liberals so we weren't totally blind to the actual facts. I remember reading Clinton was the worse president ever, abortion doomed the country, and FDR was a fool for not listening to Gen. MacArthur (ie destroying godless China)  :/

I've said many times I didn't like being home schooled, but it benefited me; honestly I don't like defending it, but when I hear debunked misconceptions and stereotypes repeated in every discussion of home schooling I can't help but come to its defense.

[Eric P]

I remember reading Clinton was the worse president ever, abortion doomed the country, and FDR was a fool for not listening to Gen. MacArthur (ie destroying godless China)  :/

amazing

[Phoenix Dark]

Oh yea, and that Malcolm X died a racist and people who consider him a great leader are blind to the fact 

[brawndolicious]

I'm just saying evolution as one example of a weird thing that you believe(ed) in that most people in public schools don't.

[Phoenix Dark]

And? It has little to do with one's level of education. It would be unwise to simply not teach evolution because once you go to college it comes up in bio classes, albeit not much; I've taken many biology classes in college and have rarely been tested on evolution principles.

We focused on math, english, science, and reading (social studies, general reading, etc)

[brawndolicious]

And? It has little to do with one's level of education. It would be unwise to simply not teach evolution because once you go to college it comes up in bio classes, albeit not much; I've taken many biology classes in college and have rarely been tested on evolution principles.

We focused on math, english, science, and reading (social studies, general reading, etc)

if you're in a classroom learning it you'll probably try to be more open-minded than if your parents are teaching it.

[Phoenix Dark]

And? It has little to do with one's level of education. It would be unwise to simply not teach evolution because once you go to college it comes up in bio classes, albeit not much; I've taken many biology classes in college and have rarely been tested on evolution principles.

We focused on math, english, science, and reading (social studies, general reading, etc)

if you're in a classroom learning it you'll probably try to be more open-minded than if your parents are teaching it.

There isn't much that's open minded or critical about evolution in public schools. But I agree with you in essence

[Howard Alan Treesong]

And? It has little to do with one's level of education. It would be unwise to simply not teach evolution because once you go to college it comes up in bio classes, albeit not much; I've taken many biology classes in college and have rarely been tested on evolution principles.

We focused on math, english, science, and reading (social studies, general reading, etc)

if you're in a classroom learning it you'll probably try to be more open-minded than if your parents are teaching it.

There isn't much that's open minded or critical about evolution in public schools. But I agree with you in essence

And what's up with gravity? Why, i's just a theory! Where's equal time for Intelligent Falling?

[Phoenix Dark]

And? It has little to do with one's level of education. It would be unwise to simply not teach evolution because once you go to college it comes up in bio classes, albeit not much; I've taken many biology classes in college and have rarely been tested on evolution principles.

We focused on math, english, science, and reading (social studies, general reading, etc)

if you're in a classroom learning it you'll probably try to be more open-minded than if your parents are teaching it.

There isn't much that's open minded or critical about evolution in public schools. But I agree with you in essence

And what's up with gravity? Why, i's just a theory! Where's equal time for Intelligent Falling?

I'm not suggesting that ID be taught in schools

[Howard Alan Treesong]

good! you're smarter than Ben Stein

[Phoenix Dark]

Ben Stein is going to outlive us all

[Human Snorenado]

Ben Stein is going to outlive us all

People said that about Nixon, too, and look at him.  Or Hillary Clinton, who is dying a very public death along the lines of Rasputin as we speak.

[Eric P]

good! you're smarter than Ben Stein

yeah, what's THAT all about?

[Eric P]

Ben Stein is going to outlive us all

People said that about Nixon, too, and look at him.  Or Hillary Clinton, who is dying a very public death along the lines of Rasputin as we speak.

so will boney m make a song about her too?

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