so i played brawl tonight...

[Himu]

and for the first time ever I actually had fun playing Smash Bros.

I like the level design a lot, especially the F-zero and Donkey Kong levels. They really keep me on my toes.

But on top of that, the single player mode is a big, big, BIG draw for me. Nintendo needs to work on a new Kid Icarus stat. Pit's section in SSE had me smiling.

Nintendo really put a lot of work in this game. The level design in particular, is extremely well polished and has tons of variety. The mixture of platforming and fighting in the Donkey Kong stage was fucking awesome.

I'm not sure who to use though. I'm partial to Sonic and Pit so far.

[Himu]

lol didn't notice that

[Candyflip]

Did they remove wavedashing and L-canceling?

[CurseoftheGods]

They removed wavedashing, and I don't know what L-canceling is.

[Powerslave]

Never played a Smash Bros game in my life. Played Melee for like half an hour and was not impressed.

[Van Cruncheon]

himu eleven years old CONFIRMED

[Beezy]

Brawl owns, Drinky. Buy it for your daughter.

[TVC15]

I just played Brawl for the worst time, and the terrible graphics kicked me in the nuts.  It basically looks the same as the GC game.  What a piece of shit.

[demi]

It is the same as the Gamecube version, anyone who went to Sakurai's GDC boredom discussion would see, he even compared the two models. They are the same.

[MCD]

Brawl owns, Drinky. Buy it for your daughter.

don't taint her anymore drinky, nindogs and galaxy were enough.

[Beezy]

Brawl owns, Drinky. Buy it for your daughter.

don't taint her anymore drinky, nindogs and galaxy were enough.

He bought those for himself.

[MCD]

Brawl owns, Drinky. Buy it for your daughter.

don't taint her anymore drinky, nindogs and galaxy were enough.

He bought those for himself.

the professor would never do such a thing.

filthy lies.

[Beezy]

Brawl owns, Drinky. Buy it for your daughter.

don't taint her anymore drinky, nindogs and galaxy were enough.

He bought those for himself.

the professor would never do such a thing.

filthy lies.

[Himu]

I just played Brawl for the worst time, and the terrible graphics kicked me in the nuts.  It basically looks the same as the GC game.  What a piece of shit.

Um. What? The game looks MUCH better than Melee.

[y2kev]

SSE is horrible and represents everything wrong with Nintendo fans.

OMG PEACH AND ZELDA AND SONIC AND MARIO AND LINK AND KIRBY AND EVERYONE ON THE SAME SCREEN AND OMG THEY ARE SAVING THE WORLD TOGETHER + horrible level design + bad controls = SSE

[MCD]

[TVC15]

I just played Brawl for the worst time, and the terrible graphics kicked me in the nuts.  It basically looks the same as the GC game.  What a piece of shit.

Um. What? The game looks MUCH better than Melee.

No it doesn't.  Even if it looks incrementally better (which I also doubt), there is no arguable way that it looks "MUCH better."  Maybe Melee didn't have widescreen, though.

[y2kev]

The character models are much, much more detailed (same is true of the backgrounds).




It's not really close.

[Van Cruncheon]

so we went from upgraded n64 models to gc tp models? how is that an improvement?

[MCD]

so we went from upgraded n64 models to gc tp models? how is that an improvement?

Nintendo: innovation.

[demi]

same model, new textures, k

[Van Cruncheon]

pretty much

if tp had come out before melee, they'd have a different set of textures to clone

[Himu]

SSE is horrible and represents everything wrong with Nintendo fans.

OMG PEACH AND ZELDA AND SONIC AND MARIO AND LINK AND KIRBY AND EVERYONE ON THE SAME SCREEN AND OMG THEY ARE SAVING THE WORLD TOGETHER + horrible level design + bad controls = SSE

i agree in some ways, but it's completely different from the typical fighting game story mode we're used to. I like the idea of SSE a lot. I mean, watching a cutscene is infinitely more appealing than reading fucking text. I don't want to read text in a fighting game I want to see ASS KICKING. Plus, some of the cutscenes are pretty well made. The Donkey Kong cutscene was aweosme. FUCK THOSE KOOPAS STEALIN MAH BANANAS and DIDDY KONG with COCONUT GUNS.

On the gameplay side, SSE embarks on new ground as well. While it's not perfect, I think the mix of platformer and beat em up in a fighting game story mode is really neat.

[Himu]

pretty much

if tp had come out before melee, they'd have a different set of textures to clone

And what about characters like Pit or Sonic?

[TVC15]

Yeah, for the most part, that's more of retexturing than anything.  There aren't drastically more polygons.  The game's a technical dog.  Nintendo got lazy with it because they knew people would buy crap.  Shocking.

It's not really close

It is if you can tell a texture from a polygon.

[demi]

"we had to use nintendo's assets" - sakurai

[y2kev]

I don't really care if it's new texturing or new modeling, the models look much better. Zoomed out the game looks the same (and really, really needs AA), but the evidence is there...Melee used slightly beefier N64 models. Brawl doesn't look great great, but it's disingenuous to say that difference isn't really obvious.

[MCD]

[hyp]

nintendo

[Van Cruncheon]

pretty much

if tp had come out before melee, they'd have a different set of textures to clone

And what about characters like Pit or Sonic?

does anyone give a fuck about pit or sonic

having an opinion on a nintendo mascot is like having an opinion on he-man versus gi joe, or one-inch heels versus four-inch ones

nikka here ain't a bytch

smh at himuchan

[TVC15]

It's really not obvious, though.  If they were side by side, I could tell the difference, but that's about it.  That's not giving Brawl a lot of credit, but it doesn't really deserve credit in the visuals department.

[Smooth Groove]

To be fair, the characters don't usually look blocky because you're looking at them from a pretty far distance.

[TVC15]

To be fair, the characters don't usually look blocky because you're looking at them from a pretty far distance.

But they do look jaggy!

[Van Cruncheon]

if i were walking by a kiosk running either melee or brawl, replete with its attendent crowd of ten-year-old pokekids and 26-year-old morbidly obese ninpedos, i wouldn't be able to tell you which version it was with a casual glance

or even with a serious examination, either

smh

[MCD]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Arts

brawl developers.

[TVC15]

From Project Sylpheed to this?  Poor devs.

[Smooth Groove]

if i were walking by a kiosk running either melee or brawl, replete with its attendent crowd of ten-year-old pokekids and 26-year-old morbidly obese ninpedos, i wouldn't be able to tell you which version it was with a casual glance

or even with a serious examination, either

smh

Brawl has 16x9 support.  I think. 

To be fair, the characters don't usually look blocky because you're looking at them from a pretty far distance.

But they do look jaggy!

Is it possible for a game to not be jaggy at 480I/P? 

[Van Cruncheon]

actually, i COULD tell the difference: brawl probably has more hyperventilating mouthbreathers squeaking about "pit and sonic" standing around its kiosk at any given moment.

[Smooth Groove]

Don't forget Solid Snake. 

[TVC15]

if i were walking by a kiosk running either melee or brawl, replete with its attendent crowd of ten-year-old pokekids and 26-year-old morbidly obese ninpedos, i wouldn't be able to tell you which version it was with a casual glance

or even with a serious examination, either

smh

Brawl has 16x9 support.  I think. 

To be fair, the characters don't usually look blocky because you're looking at them from a pretty far distance.

But they do look jaggy!

Is it possible for a game to not be jaggy at 480I/P? 

You might be right, but the relatively small size of the characters on screens amplifies the effect.  Those nicer textures Brawl has?  They dun look so nice when they have the PS2 Launch Game effect applied.

[Bloodwake]

The draw for the single player for me wasn't the story. Let's face it, it sucked and it dribbles with fanboyism and fanfiction bullshit.

The draw is that it plays frighteningly like Kirby Super Star, except better. I'm not even shitting you. It took the Halberd level to really show it to me, but the two games are really similar in single player.

The thing is, people are bitching about recycling. Well, I'm pretty sure all fighting games do that. Even if you don't consider Smash Bros. fighting, you have to realize that games such as the majority of the Street Fighter, Soul Calibur, Mortal Kombat, and Tekken series are all just the same game over and over again with extra characters. You may argue that they had new features. Well, so did Brawl. Brawl has final smashes and some characters have new or different moves. Plus, there are new levels that are more even playing fields.

Brawl is a great game, except for the fucking bullshit matchmaking. Fuck that shit.

[hyp]

the FMVs are shitty as hell.  non-widescreen with a huge black border around the entire video. 

[TVC15]

When fighting games recycle, they usually have clearly better visuals in subsequent editions.

[demi]

is brawl even WS, hyp?

[Himu]

When fighting games recycle, they usually have clearly better visuals in subsequent editions.

brawl looks much better than melee. KOF however looked mostly the same until KOFXII.

lol wut

[TVC15]

Well, I was going to put a caveat about 2d games in there, but I figured anyone with a brain would auto-insert it.

And as has been pointed out:  Brawl has arguably better textures, but the models are just about the same, and the better textures don't really add much since the characters are too small and the game is hideously jaggy.

[hyp]

is brawl even WS, hyp?

gameplay is true widescreen (fills up entire screen), FMVs aren't.

[MCD]

kof12 is full hd and i doubt they have a budget like Nintendo's.

[hyp]

TVC,  you play wii games on a CRT right?  it's still jaggy even with that setup?

looks like crap on my plasma.  i play it in the blurry unsharpened video mode (in options) to try and compensate for jagville.

[y2kev]

Well, I was going to put a caveat about 2d games in there, but I figured anyone with a brain would auto-insert it.

And as has been pointed out:  Brawl has arguably better textures, but the models are just about the same, and the better textures don't really add much since the characters are too small and the game is hideously jaggy.

Arguably better textures?

[Himu]

Well, I was going to put a caveat about 2d games in there, but I figured anyone with a brain would auto-insert it.

Tekken 5 looks worse than fucking Tekken Tag

and there's not THAT much of a visual upgrade from VF4:EVO to VF5.

So what are you complaining about? This is true for all fighters.

[TVC15]

I have a rear projection HDTV.

Tekken 4-5 is a rare exception.  That has more to do with Tag hitting one out of the park than from lack of trying.

Well, I was going to put a caveat about 2d games in there, but I figured anyone with a brain would auto-insert it.

And as has been pointed out:  Brawl has arguably better textures, but the models are just about the same, and the better textures don't really add much since the characters are too small and the game is hideously jaggy.

Arguably better textures?

Yes, that is what I wrote.  The characters still look like muddled, jaggy messes on screen, so I don't think the new textures are doing much.

[Himu]

On ps2? yes it does

[Van Cruncheon]

Well, I was going to put a caveat about 2d games in there, but I figured anyone with a brain would auto-insert it.

and there's not THAT much of a visual upgrade from VF4:EVO to VF5.

oh FUCK OFF.

and sc2 to sc3 was a much bigger visual leap than melee to brawl.

[MCD]

[Van Cruncheon]

LEPER HIMU

[TVC15]

Himumu owned.  Again.

[y2kev]

I have a rear projection HDTV.

Tekken 4-5 is a rare exception.  That has more to do with Tag hitting one out of the park than from lack of trying.

Well, I was going to put a caveat about 2d games in there, but I figured anyone with a brain would auto-insert it.

And as has been pointed out:  Brawl has arguably better textures, but the models are just about the same, and the better textures don't really add much since the characters are too small and the game is hideously jaggy.

Arguably better textures?

Yes, that is what I wrote.  The characters still look like muddled, jaggy messes on screen, so I don't think the new textures are doing much.

That's not what I said. Brawl has better textures-- this is not arguable. Just because you don't "see" them because of what you have determined is poor image quality doesn't mean they aren't there.

I feel disgusting having to even defend this game, but I don't understand why EB reserves the fine toothed comb to nitpick faked "DX8 lighting engines" but then couldn't tell Brawl apart from Melee. It's not close, and it takes serious semantic wrangling to say the game doesn't have better freaking textures!

I don't think the game looks SUPERB either, but I'm at least being honest. I can tell the difference between Brawl and Melee handily even through the sixty seven meters of vaseline that are apparently being processed from my GameCube Duo.

I am not arguing there is not recycling going on or that the boost should match what McDragon posted on in reference to VF4 -> VF5 transition. Even if I wanted that to be the case (I do), I know it isn't possible.

But good lord. No, the game doesn't look great. I wish it was on 360 too.

[Van Cruncheon]

jesus christ, himu musta had that nintard train give him syphilis during its run on his ass last night

[hyp]