Fantasy tards: what's a good book/series to start

[Phoenix Dark]

The wait for A DANCE WITH DRAGONS is becoming more unbearable than I originally imagined, so I'm looking to find a fantasy book or series to read in the meantime. I know I know Raoul, Malazan Malazan. I'm going to give it a try, so no mentions of it please. So outside of Malazan what should I look for, what should I avoid, etc. In short, what do you cultured fegs like

1. I'm leaning towards TH White's The Once and Future King. Has anyone read it? I know the basic Arthurian story but the book caught my eye when I read JK Rowling cited it as an influence to her writing.

2. Whenever I go to Borders I see a shit ton of Robert Jordan books; hell, he has a co-sign quote on George RR Martin's first three ASOIAF books. Is his stuff any good? I've seen some criticism of his work as being boring

3. Terry Brooks. I've read good things about his stuff. Anyone familiar with him?

[Human Snorenado]

MALAZAN OMG

[Human Snorenado]

I would stay away from Wheel of Time, PD.  You'd probably be all "OMG BEST SERIES OF EVAR!" at first but after the fifth book it turns to poop basically.

[Eric P]

my highly suggestive views of the best traditional fantasists

Terry Pratchett - humorous fantasy but more substantial than it would appear to be at first.  check out Mort, Small Gods or Guards! Guards! to start.

Michael Moorcock - like fantasy but want to move beyond lord of the rings?  you can pretty much thank this man.  check out the excellent Elric and the Stealer of Souls which JUST came back into print in an EXCELLENT edition.

Robert E Howard - Pretty much created the sword and sorcery genre and the venerable Conan.  Del Ray books has been putting out his collected works broken down by character for a few years now.  They're absolutely amazing works.  If I could suggest you read on story by him it's The Frost Giant's Daughter.

Fritz Leiber - did the Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser stories recently having been collected in the Swords over Lankmar.  Great PURE adventure in the fantasy vein and probably one of my absolute favorite genre writers ever.

Lesser known, but still important (will probably cross over into horror territory because that's how i roll)

Algernon Blackwood- not swords and sorcery but still fantasy.  Read "The Willows" which is about another dimension crossing to our own.

Author Machen - prolific important british writer.  check out The Great God Pan, which is about the nature of sexuality and our own desires.  The White Ones, which is a story told from a young girl's point of view about magic.

Edgar Rice Burroughs - the creator of tarzan also did the excellent John Carter of Mars series which is more fantasy than science fiction.  Look for the first novel A Princess of Mars.

Harlan Ellison - some sci-fi, some horror, lots of The Fantastic which defies genrefication.  You could do worse things with your money than by The Essential Ellison, which gives you 50 years of stories, esssays and scripts for around $30.

There's so so so many more that I want to list, but I want to get an idea of what you're looking for before I go beyond this.

[Van Cruncheon]

r scott bakker: the prince of nothing trilogy (the darkness that comes before, the warrior-prophet, and the thousandfold thought). you'll love book 2's cheesy climax, home schoolie!

terry brooks, david eddings, and robert jordan are awful. early (raymond e) feist is fun if you just wanna groove on the fantasy tropes. read the first dragonlance chronicles just to get all the jokes folks make about it, and to inspire you to write dreamy self-insertion fanfics about your apprenticeship to raistlin majere

[Van Cruncheon]

man, now i wanna write a sonic the hedgehog/lord soth slashfic

[Van Cruncheon]

oh, i also recommend all of stephen r donaldson's stuff, but for straight up fantasy, the mordant's need pair of books are the best: the mirror of her dreams, and a man rides through

i'd totally let thomas covenant do my dumper

[Human Snorenado]

I also heartily endorse the Thomas Covenant Chronicles.  But it's probably above PD's head.

Heard good things about Prince of Nothing but haven't gotten to it yet.  Anyone read the Black Company books?  Opinions?

[Van Cruncheon]

i like the black company books. post-malazan, they read like erikson-lite, but they are well-paced and have a cool setting.

[Van Cruncheon]

have you read the two available books of the last chronicles of thomas covenant, raoul? first book was kinda eh -- the travelogue of linden avery, supermom -- but the second book is donaldson do me in the dumper wykd shyt and completely validates the first book

[Cormacaroni]

oh, i also recommend all of stephen r donaldson's stuff, but for straight up fantasy, the mordant's need pair of books are the best: the mirror of her dreams, and a man rides through

i'd totally let thomas covenant do my dumper

I love the Covenant stuff* and would recommend it above almost anything else in the genre but can barely remember the Mordant's Need stuff. I thought it was generic tosh at 14 or whatever age I was when I read it. Then again, maybe the intervening years of cubicle dotage has dulled my brain to the point where I can enjoy it.

* I even bought a hardback edition of some guy's Master's Thesis on the series, which was a trip

Jack Vance's Lyonesse stuff is a hoot, though very whimsical. Which is not to say gay. But it's getting there.

I'll second the Fritz Leiber recommendation. Fafhrd & Grey Mouser . He's an excellent prose stylist as well as great storyteller.

Recently, Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell is great. China Mieville's stuff is wonderfully dark and strange and absolutely 'fantasy' in the dictionary definition sense but I'm not sure it'd be to your taste. There are occasionally swords, and definitely sorcery, but it's very much it's own thing.

And jesus christ PD, if you haven't read LOTR, do not go anywhere near extruded pseudo-Tolkien dreck like Robert Jordan, Terry Brooks or David Eddings. I've read enough of all of those guys (thanks to my shoplifting friends in high school) to know that they do not belong in the same conversation as real writers.

If you like George R.R. Martin stuff, check out 'Tigana' by Guy Gavriel Kay. (not a series but very substantial)

A lot of Neil Gaiman's output qualifies as fantasy - American Gods is my favorite but YMMV.

Will no doubt add more once as they come to me.

[Human Snorenado]

have you read the two available books of the last chronicles of thomas covenant, raoul? first book was kinda eh -- the travelogue of linden avery, supermom -- but the second book is donaldson do me in the dumper wykd shyt and completely validates the first book

I've yet to read it, but I'll pick them up.  I loves me some Thomas Covenant.

[Van Cruncheon]

i don't think mordant's need is generic at all, outside of the bogstandard straight medieval fantasy setting. it has one of the best villains in memory, an unusually affable male protagonist (rare for donaldson), and a really three-dimensional female protagonist (rare for the genre). the magic is cool and well-integrated into the plot and theme, the politics are more personal than martin's stuff, and, of course, donaldson's dense prolix style (which i adore). the chronicles are deeper and more metaphysical in many ways -- mordant's need *is* ultimately undiluted genre fluff -- but it is really, really well-conceived genre fluff.

[Van Cruncheon]

oh oh oh and anything by zelazny in particular, particularly the amber cycle of books and lord of light

and gene wolfe's new urth quadrology

[ToxicAdam]

Since you are a Potter fan, I would recommend something a little lighter than Donaldson.

Death Gate Cycle. Weis and Hickman.

It's good stuff.


  Gray Mouser books

[Van Cruncheon]

have you read the two available books of the last chronicles of thomas covenant, raoul? first book was kinda eh -- the travelogue of linden avery, supermom -- but the second book is donaldson do me in the dumper wykd shyt and completely validates the first book

I've yet to read it, but I'll pick them up.  I loves me some Thomas Covenant.

make a thread if you do! i'm dying to discuss it with someone. my wife finds donaldson too dense and "too intense". the first book starts stupid slow and goes into a sort of travelogue rate of pacing, but halfway through the second book you'll be gagging to read it again, and suddenly it is amazingly engaging

[Van Cruncheon]

Since you are a Potter fan, I would recommend something a little lighter than Donaldson.

Death Gate Cycle. Weis and Hickman.

did you like the kooky puckish character who secretly saves the day or the daffy wizard character who is secretly a god more, i ask

[ToxicAdam]

Well, ok .. there are some trite vices they fall back on ... but I appreciate a set of light fantasy books that are thought out and have an overarching theme intertwined between them all. They are certainly a few steps above anything else they have ever done or some other popular fantasy writers have done.

[Cormacaroni]

Weis & Hickman - are you fucking kidding me. 'Fantasy' implies some actual imaginative, creative process taking place...not cookie-cutter make-your-own-adventure plotting & characters cast in the sort of prose that would shame a dimestore romance novel.

[Van Cruncheon]

given that the majority of their books are rp campaigns they've played previously: shokku

[Cormacaroni]

given that the majority of their books are rp campaigns they've played previously: shokku

If people like the RP campaigns, play the RP campaigns. The books are dreadful shite and inexcusable in every way.

[Human Snorenado]

given that the majority of their books are rp campaigns they've played previously: shokku

If people like the RP campaigns, play the RP campaigns. The books are dreadful shite and inexcusable in every way.

Yeah, but the Malazan books came out of an AD&D campaign.  Of course, it helps that Erikson is, you know, decent as a writer.

[Cormacaroni]

I love Malazan; doesn't mean that Weis & Hickman get a pass for being shite because their books were created by a similar process to Erikson's...

[ToxicAdam]

Look, I can accept snobbery in threads about Soda or Comic Books .... but fantasy novels? This is where I draw the line, internet.

Good night.

[Cormacaroni]

Err,  you were the one pissing on Fritz Leiber

[Joe Molotov]

If you want to check out Thomas Covenant, why not have the first book read and explained to you by hot, naked chicks?
http://www.fantasybedtimehour.com/ (Work safe)

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Note: Neither of the girls are actually hot or naked, but Stephen R. Donaldson actually guest stars on a few episodes.

[close]

[Phoenix Dark]

Thanks for the suggestions. Prince of Nothing sounds cool although this kinda makes me hesitant (from amazon):

The Darkness that Comes Before is a strong, impressive, deeply imagined debut novel. However, this first book of an epic fantasy series is not accessible; it reads like a later volume of a complicated ongoing series. Author R. Scott Bakker has created a world that is very different from J.R.R. Tolkien's Middle Earth, yet in depth of development comes closer than most high-fantasy worlds. In addition to providing five appendices, Bakker attempts to make his complex world clear to readers by filling the prologue and opening chapters with the names of characters, gods, cities, tribes, nations, religions, factions, and sorcerous schools. For many readers, this approach will have the opposite effect of clarity. It's like demonstrating snowflake structure with a blizzard.

I'll give it a try anyway. Tomorrow after class I'll look up all these suggestions for descriptions.

[Human Snorenado]

Thanks for the suggestions. Prince of Nothing sounds cool although this kinda makes me hesitant (from amazon):

The Darkness that Comes Before is a strong, impressive, deeply imagined debut novel. However, this first book of an epic fantasy series is not accessible; it reads like a later volume of a complicated ongoing series. Author R. Scott Bakker has created a world that is very different from J.R.R. Tolkien's Middle Earth, yet in depth of development comes closer than most high-fantasy worlds. In addition to providing five appendices, Bakker attempts to make his complex world clear to readers by filling the prologue and opening chapters with the names of characters, gods, cities, tribes, nations, religions, factions, and sorcerous schools. For many readers, this approach will have the opposite effect of clarity. It's like demonstrating snowflake structure with a blizzard.

I'll give it a try anyway. Tomorrow after class I'll look up all these suggestions for descriptions.

IF YOU DON'T START READING THE MALAZAN BOOKS I WILL PUNCH YOU IN THE GENITALS

[Cormacaroni]

oh, since you asked about T.H. White...i loved it. I read it about 25 years ago however, so i'm more than a little hazy. It's definitely closer to Harry Potter than George R.R. Martin though. Kid-friendly, in other words.

[Cormacaroni]

Have to recommend this, since i just read it a month or two back.



This was recommended by both Steven Erikson and China Mieville in interviews so I checked it out. It was written before LOTR and captures a lot of what made that great in far fewer pages. The whole thing really has the feel of Norse legend (yes, that is the motherfucking Mighty Thor on the cover...). Great stuff.

[Phoenix Dark]

Thanks for the suggestions. Prince of Nothing sounds cool although this kinda makes me hesitant (from amazon):

The Darkness that Comes Before is a strong, impressive, deeply imagined debut novel. However, this first book of an epic fantasy series is not accessible; it reads like a later volume of a complicated ongoing series. Author R. Scott Bakker has created a world that is very different from J.R.R. Tolkien's Middle Earth, yet in depth of development comes closer than most high-fantasy worlds. In addition to providing five appendices, Bakker attempts to make his complex world clear to readers by filling the prologue and opening chapters with the names of characters, gods, cities, tribes, nations, religions, factions, and sorcerous schools. For many readers, this approach will have the opposite effect of clarity. It's like demonstrating snowflake structure with a blizzard.

I'll give it a try anyway. Tomorrow after class I'll look up all these suggestions for descriptions.

IF YOU DON'T START READING THE MALAZAN BOOKS I WILL PUNCH YOU IN THE GENITALS

Trust me, I'm starting Malazan before I start anything else; although I'm bummed that the cover of the first book looks like a romance novel. Little too fantagay for me

Cormacaroni how old are you? As I said TH White caught my eye due to the Potter connection, and I really want to check it out. But it seems like the perfect easy breezy Christmas break type book, so I'll wait

[Howard Alan Treesong]

[Howard Alan Treesong]

well, you asked what you SHOULD read, not what you're CAPABLE of reading

Pratchett might be a good compromise between readable fluffiness and depth.

Brooks is SHIT, Jordan is SHIT, White is good but reading him because you like Rowling is a SHITTY REASON.

I should give Prince of Nothing a second try. All the umlauts scared me away halfway through the first book.

[Cormacaroni]

PD - I'm 36.

And I have read many, many books in those 36 years, like people used to before the internet and Xbox Live and crack cocaine.
I even have a degree in Eng. Lit!

[Eric P]

Recently, Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell is great. China Mieville's stuff is wonderfully dark and strange and absolutely 'fantasy' in the dictionary definition sense but I'm not sure it'd be to your taste. There are occasionally swords, and definitely sorcery, but it's very much it's own thing.

A lot of Neil Gaiman's output qualifies as fantasy - American Gods is my favorite but YMMV.

Strange and Norrell is absolutely excellent in every way.  an amazing debut novel.  i devoured it in a few days.

i was avoiding the new wierd stuff because i don't know how much he'd be into it

there's also a TON of American Fantasy tradition which is well worth reading like by Mark Twain, Nathaniel Hawthorne, l frank baum, and on and on

[Eric P]

(Image removed from quote.)

YES


also Charles De Lint.

[recursivelyenumerable]

The Death Gate Cycle is cool, although when I reread it a few years back I got annoyed at its religious angle, and if I reread it now I'd probably interpret it as an allegory for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and get annoyed at the namby-pamby bourgeois centrism.  At any rate, Weis and Hickman's prose style is perfectly serviceable and infinitely less obnoxious than GRR Martin's pretentious crap

Try Mieville's Perdido Street Station.  It might appeal to your wannabe-hipster side, and I think it even has black people in it.

[Eric P]

Try Mieville's Perdido Street Station.  It might appeal to your wannabe-hipster side, and I think it even has black people in it.

start with king rat

it's got better music

[Van Cruncheon]

[Tauntaun]

(Image removed from quote.)

  I just bought my wife a PSP and Crisis Core on Sunday.  After she's done playing it it's my turn.