Author Topic: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.  (Read 7298 times)

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GilloD

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Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« on: April 03, 2008, 12:39:56 PM »
I'm in the midst of writing an article about how recent gaming has depicted the United States not as a the stalwart war hero but as a bumbling Chaplin-esque character burdened by the essentials of law and the requirements of warfare in the Middle East. If I needed another primary source, here it is. Army of Two is a game all about how silly and outdated the military is and how AWESOME it is to be a PRIVATE CONTRACTOR! Even when the game ends and the private contractors turn out to be a bunch of backstabbing power hogs, our heroes turn around and start their own PRIVATE CONTRACTOR because VIOLENCE IS AWESOME WHEN YOU DO IT WITH A FRIEND.

Watching Yahtzee's review of the game yesterday, he pinpointed something that I found unsettling: Mixing a boyish enthusiasm for violence (Kill some Islamic fundamentalists and then FIST BUMP BECAUSE THAT WAS AWESOME, BRO!) with real world events (There is actual 9/11 footage in the game, however briefly) is ceaselessly tasteless. It's enough that the game's enthusiasm for wanton violence has no real buffer- There is never any remorse for the killing or prayers for the dead- but to mix that action movie mindset with real politics isn't immersive, it's just weird. Weren't we all horrified by the Blackwater scandal not even a year ago? And now I'm supposed to play as Blackwater and feel great about it?

The game's first two levels are a wander through global political stereotypes. In level one you hike through war torn Somolia to kill a warlord with a gun dipped in gold, ironic given that the game has an option to upgrade your weapons to "Pimped", thereby shortening the gap between "Warlord" and "Hero". It is kind of tasteless, but the level is over soon enough and then we get to level 2, which starts with footage of 9/11. I'm guessing you figured out where it goes from here, but if you didn't, pack your bags because we're off to Affff-ghhhannn-iss-taa-nnn. The most frequent enemy here is the Martyr.

Martyr? Yes. Jihadists strapped with dynamite literally throw themselves at you, howling a battlecry in a language you can't understand. "Ulululululu!" they shout and then you pull the trigger and shoot the bomb strapped to their chests and KA-BLAM they blow up like the rockets bursting in air, because America is awesome and violence is awesome and other cultures are LAME AND INSANE. The plot in this level centers around these radicals getting their hands on some missiles that come from- DUN DUN DUN- Russia! Nevermind the fact that the helicopters and the guns probably come from America, because now America has bigger guns and so what.

The following levels are slightly forgettable- An aircraft carrier, a Chinese village, a post-post-Katrina, flooded Miami- and the plot is hackeneyed, Tom Clancy global madlibs conspiracy. Just put the names of the world's super powers (and irritants) in a hat, shake it up and dump them out on the writing room floor: "Let's see, (Korea) gets (missiles) from (Georgia), while (America) has to deal with (Mexican) soldiers who are being paid by (Supposed friend of the heroes) and funded by (FRANCE!)". There seems to be an aborted plot thread in the first level- A mysterious infection, a room filled with toxic gas- that never comes to fruition. Needless to say, it would have been more interesting than what unfolds.

As far as gameplay goes, it's servicable. As is the case nearly always, it's better with a friend than alone, but not because the game is built to be a co-op experience. It isn't. There are some cutesy co-op moments, but by and large as long as you can use the AI as bait, you'll be fine. It's just the AI isn't always in for the fun and on more than one occasion I found myself wishing they'd just given me a German Shepard I could have strapped a minigun to and called it a day.

It's a pretty package with some nice moments, but given the shallow gameplay and offensive political, moral and ethical themes, it's best left for a weekend rental or the bargain bin. You could probably cruise through it in 10-12 hours, less with an effective friend.
wha

Eric P

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2008, 01:01:55 PM »
amazingly short sited and reprehensible

Tonya

GilloD

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2008, 01:04:25 PM »
amazingly short sited and reprehensible



Oh? Go on.
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Eric P

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2008, 01:05:20 PM »
oh, i meant the post above mine!
Tonya

GilloD

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2008, 01:05:51 PM »
I should clarify that I'm not PC liberal with an axe to grind. It's just that the game attempts to have ADULT GRITTY REAL WORLD settings, but treats them with all the tact and respect of a 6th grade mid-term report.

Oh. Good. I agree, it's not that long, really.
wha

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2008, 01:08:26 PM »
it's time to pimp ze AK
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Eric P

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2008, 01:08:39 PM »
i'm curious about post-post katrina

do you fight poor black people?
Tonya

Mupepe

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2008, 01:10:02 PM »
i'm curious about post-post katrina

do you fight poor black people?
Are there any other kind?

GilloD

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2008, 01:12:19 PM »
i'm curious about post-post katrina

do you fight poor black people?

Before you start the level there is a CNN style newscast about a hurricane "FIVE TIMES THE SIZE OF KATRINA!!!" hitting Miama, where you're going. You start in a flooded airport and work your way out to a flooded section of the city. There's definitley some Katrina relevance, as well as the look of a flooded city as a bloody battleground. It's fine as a set piece, but why drag Katrina into it? Again, it's just kind of a tactless way to go "LOOK. ITS REAL THE GAME WORLD IS REAL!".
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Smooth Groove

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2008, 01:13:55 PM »
Real gamers all want to shoot some distinguished black fellows. 

Mupepe

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2008, 01:15:26 PM »
i'm curious about post-post katrina

do you fight poor black people?

Before you start the level there is a CNN style newscast about a hurricane "FIVE TIMES THE SIZE OF KATRINA!!!" hitting Miama, where you're going. You start in a flooded airport and work your way out to a flooded section of the city. There's definitley some Katrina relevance, as well as the look of a flooded city as a bloody battleground. It's fine as a set piece, but why drag Katrina into it? Again, it's just kind of a tactless way to go "LOOK. ITS REAL THE GAME WORLD IS REAL!".
you just convinced me to buy this game  :-\

GilloD

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2008, 01:17:46 PM »
i'm curious about post-post katrina

do you fight poor black people?

Before you start the level there is a CNN style newscast about a hurricane "FIVE TIMES THE SIZE OF KATRINA!!!" hitting Miama, where you're going. You start in a flooded airport and work your way out to a flooded section of the city. There's definitley some Katrina relevance, as well as the look of a flooded city as a bloody battleground. It's fine as a set piece, but why drag Katrina into it? Again, it's just kind of a tactless way to go "LOOK. ITS REAL THE GAME WORLD IS REAL!".
you just convinced me to buy this game  :-\

RENT IT! It's worth a play, it's a reasonably okay shooter and the end of the aircraft levels is FUCK YEAH awesome, but you'll regret putting out 60 bucks for it. The flooded level is easily the worst in the game.
wha

AdmiralViscen

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2008, 01:20:53 PM »
i'm curious about post-post katrina

do you fight poor black people?

Before you start the level there is a CNN style newscast about a hurricane "FIVE TIMES THE SIZE OF KATRINA!!!" hitting Miama, where you're going. You start in a flooded airport and work your way out to a flooded section of the city. There's definitley some Katrina relevance, as well as the look of a flooded city as a bloody battleground. It's fine as a set piece, but why drag Katrina into it? Again, it's just kind of a tactless way to go "LOOK. ITS REAL THE GAME WORLD IS REAL!".

I'm going to have to agree with you - fuck this shit, it's way too tasteless.

Mupepe

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2008, 01:24:46 PM »
i'm curious about post-post katrina

do you fight poor black people?

Before you start the level there is a CNN style newscast about a hurricane "FIVE TIMES THE SIZE OF KATRINA!!!" hitting Miama, where you're going. You start in a flooded airport and work your way out to a flooded section of the city. There's definitley some Katrina relevance, as well as the look of a flooded city as a bloody battleground. It's fine as a set piece, but why drag Katrina into it? Again, it's just kind of a tactless way to go "LOOK. ITS REAL THE GAME WORLD IS REAL!".
you just convinced me to buy this game  :-\

RENT IT! It's worth a play, it's a reasonably okay shooter and the end of the aircraft levels is FUCK YEAH awesome, but you'll regret putting out 60 bucks for it. The flooded level is easily the worst in the game.
I'll rent it when it comes back and you and I can do co op!

Eel O'Brian

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2008, 01:29:42 PM »
i see a lot of hypocrisy in these complaints i'm reading about army of two
sup

Crushed

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2008, 01:49:02 PM »
A hurricane FIVE TIMES THE SIZE OF Katrina? wowowowow  :o


That's like the post-Jaws "big animal" movie craze where some crazy record-breaking size would be thrown in.

18-foot bear!
36-foot alligator!
wtc

GilloD

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2008, 02:05:46 PM »
i see a lot of hypocrisy in these complaints i'm reading about army of two

? Explain.

I think the other thing about using GRITTY REAL WORLD REALISM is that there's a reason metaphor and allegory are so popular in the history of human narrative: They allow us to insinuate our own experience and our own person into the text/narrative. CoD4 obviously takes place in Iraq. But because it's called Kabvavasthan whatever, it allows a layer of personal interpretation. Being told "THIS IS IRAQ" forces us to apply our previously held feelings about Iraq and the war, yadda yadda. So forcing us to apply our experiences of the real world to an experience that comes out of every action movie script in the last decade is a kind of contradiction that works against the game.
wha

TVC15

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2008, 03:16:52 PM »
You just sold me on the game!  I love tasteless shit!
serge

Smooth Groove

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2008, 03:21:53 PM »
You just sold me on the game!  I love tasteless shit!

You didn't even like Lair. 

TVC15

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2008, 03:28:54 PM »
You just sold me on the game!  I love tasteless shit!

You didn't even like Lair. 

Lair was a terrible game with terrible gameplay and terrible visuals.  This is a game that is politically offensive with solid, if mediocre, gameplay and visuals.  World of difference.
serge

demi

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2008, 03:29:39 PM »
You'll play the first level and never touch it again
fat

TVC15

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2008, 03:32:08 PM »
You'll play the first level and never touch it again

If it's offensive enough, I'll keep at it.  Games are always too politically correct for the most part, even when you consider that 90% of them have the players becoming mass murderers.  Army of Two is stretching boundaries.
serge

TVC15

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2008, 03:41:57 PM »
Confirmed:  Demi and meself are going to play through Army of Two in coop.
serge

Smooth Groove

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2008, 03:44:29 PM »
Redneck Rampge was pretty fun back then. 

TVC15

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2008, 03:55:47 PM »
I want a game where I can play a wisecracking marine shocking the genitals of someone in Abu Ghraib.

Of course, the ultimate offensive dream game would be a musou game where you battle against legions of the minority you like least.
serge

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2008, 03:57:52 PM »
some RPG guy made that, I forget the name of it though. you fought the Evil Darkies

I wish I could bump fists with you, TVC :(
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Eric P

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2008, 04:07:50 PM »
I want a game where I can play a wisecracking marine shocking the genitals of someone in Abu Ghraib.


that would be easy to make

you just need a "stress meter" (maximize this to get secrets, but be careful he could by lying or holding out) a "pain threshold" (if you reach this he passes out and you lose points) a health bar (if he dies, you lose)   "legality meter" for bonus points.

you could make this a flash game really.

you have drag and drop "torture options" which affect the different meters in different amounts and just some frames of animation showing pain and health level

points could be "lives saved"

Tonya

TVC15

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2008, 04:16:30 PM »
Are you thinking of the game Grimoire by Cleve Blakemore, a Wizardry-style FPRPG where you fought against the CONGOIDS?

My game is a Dynasty Warriors clone.  Imagine this scenario--actually, copy this down and pitch it, Patel and Cohen--In real life, after a long, frustrating day at the hospital, you, Doctor Average Joe, comes home and plops down on the couch.  You lost four patients today, not because of lack of skill, know-how, or a desire to help people, but because the filthy Mexicans funneling into the ER, but never paying, have absolutely gutted the hospital financially, making it impossible to provide even basic care to well-insured people that will actually pay for their shit.  In short, those filthy, poverty-ridden Mexicans are causing people to die, and there's nothing you can do about it.  So how do you blow off steam?  Why, just pop in Dynasty Warriors Border Patrol, and take out the scourge vicariously, in a healthy and legal videogame environment.  
serge

The Sceneman

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2008, 08:20:26 PM »
Fist Pound is what sold me on the game. Theres alot of that right?

well you you can run up to your partner hit A and they'll do some fist pumping or air-guitar. So you can pretty much do it at will. I fucking love this game, I mean I can see how an american could get offended by it... as a non-american I can just lol at this shit.

Gameplay wise its a looser, ropier Gears... although Im finding it more enjoyable than Gears as its faster, more action packed and has tons more jokes.

You can kick black men and they go flying!

Your game sounds good TVC, would be sweet to see those Mexicans go flying everywhere... and the 'generals' would be lol worthy
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Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2008, 08:49:53 PM »
Are you thinking of the game Grimoire by Cleve Blakemore, a Wizardry-style FPRPG where you fought against the CONGOIDS?

yes
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TVC15

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2008, 10:00:32 PM »
So why is Gears heralded as a great game, but this one gets mediocre reviews?  They're really not much different at all.
serge

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2008, 10:04:28 PM »
I totally disagree.  The shoot and cover mechanic is a lot more clunky with Army of Two, the controls in general suck and coop is not nearly as fun.
PSP

TVC15

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2008, 10:06:32 PM »
I dunno, I wouldn't cite either game as a good use of cover mechanics, but clunky as it is, I'd have to open an excel spreadsheet to decide which of the two games had clunkier cover.  Gears tried to do too much with the A button, whereas Army of Two's cover mechanic is, well, ducking, basically--not trying to do enough, arguably.

I don't like the shit mapped to the bumpers, though.
serge

demi

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2008, 03:07:45 AM »
i have it until tuesday... applicants to play co-op start here

____

here
fat

MrAngryFace

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2008, 03:12:28 AM »
gears wasnt that good
o_0

TVC15

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2008, 03:22:08 AM »
gears wasnt that good

I find that the Sp in this is actually enjoyable.  So far. 

Also, demi, me and you this weekend. 
serge

y2kev

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2008, 11:51:51 AM »
I dunno, I wouldn't cite either game as a good use of cover mechanics, but clunky as it is, I'd have to open an excel spreadsheet to decide which of the two games had clunkier cover.  Gears tried to do too much with the A button, whereas Army of Two's cover mechanic is, well, ducking, basically--not trying to do enough, arguably.

I don't like the shit mapped to the bumpers, though.

The same button in Army of Two for jump over cover is advance to cover. The game never really gives you a good idea of when you are in "dive to cover" range, so if you press the button when you are too close, you will hop right into the line of fire. There are no onscreen indicators like in Gears.
haw

TVC15

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2008, 02:28:55 PM »
Well, the only qualm I have with cover in AoT is that sometimes you don't know when you are adequately covered.  And sometimes it seems like bullets go through cover.  It gets a checkmark over Gears for actually being entertaining in SP, which to me is the more important matter.
serge

GilloD

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2008, 02:55:31 PM »
Hey GilloD, let me know when you send a game back. My mom says she'll let me switch if the games arrive quicker then gamefly. I love the fact that they have all the newer games but so did gottaplay and they took WEEKS to get my games.

I sent it back yesterday. They have all the new releases, but 90% of them said short wait. That said, even though they said "Short Wait", they sent them out the same day I put them on my queue.
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y2kev

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2008, 04:46:32 PM »
Well, the only qualm I have with cover in AoT is that sometimes you don't know when you are adequately covered.  And sometimes it seems like bullets go through cover.  It gets a checkmark over Gears for actually being entertaining in SP, which to me is the more important matter.

The guns are just ass. They never feel accurate, even fully beefed up. I played the game mostly melee killing everyone.
haw

TVC15

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2008, 04:47:51 PM »
Well, the only qualm I have with cover in AoT is that sometimes you don't know when you are adequately covered.  And sometimes it seems like bullets go through cover.  It gets a checkmark over Gears for actually being entertaining in SP, which to me is the more important matter.

The guns are just ass. They never feel accurate, even fully beefed up. I played the game mostly melee killing everyone.

Neither were the guns in Gears.  The only real difference is that Gears had a big circle (a la Halo) for a sight, whereas the gins in AoT have smaller sights.
serge

y2kev

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2008, 04:51:10 PM »
I can't complain about the guns in Gears. They feel meaty, powerful, and active reload further enhances that feel. Plus, if you want accuracy, you've got your choice in the torque bow.

The guns in Army of Two all feel like diarrhea to me. And blinging them out  :lol
haw

GilloD

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2008, 08:53:25 PM »
Well, the only qualm I have with cover in AoT is that sometimes you don't know when you are adequately covered.  And sometimes it seems like bullets go through cover.  It gets a checkmark over Gears for actually being entertaining in SP, which to me is the more important matter.

The guns are just ass. They never feel accurate, even fully beefed up. I played the game mostly melee killing everyone.

This is truth. They all feel the same, too.
wha

demi

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2008, 01:33:19 AM »
this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible this game is horrible
fat

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2008, 04:00:00 AM »
Quote
Weren't we all horrified by the Blackwater scandal not even a year ago? And now I'm supposed to play as Blackwater and feel great about it?

I thought it was supposed to be anti-Blackwater?   ???
ok here we go: an interview from last August with the lead designer

Quote
(...)thanks to US law and legislation, anyone that is a contractor working abroad is immune from prosecution. And that includes a contractor being someone who “I’m building a house," or rebuilding a country, or “I’m a military contractor and I’m in there to do whatever mission they gave me.” It can be overthrowing a dictator, it can get into some gruesome stuff. And the thing is, that there’s that deniability, so if that person does something, Halliburton is like, “we never paid them, we don’t know them.” The money trail disappears, they do it through all these smaller companies. So it’s never a big company paying SSC to send out [operatives] to do a job, it’s someone else through a smaller company and the money disappears.

What we’re trying to do as we advance though the story in the game, we start with the characters. We take them from their days in Delta Force, and their days as Navy SEALs, and their start as PMCs and how they get trained. We unveil the corruption behind the military privatization, and we explain the problems that poses to society and to America, and the world, when you have a gigantic organization that does nothing but operate for corporations and for money.

(...)The world likes violence. It’s human nature. People enjoy war, they enjoy this stuff. It’s creepy when you look at it... a singing game [compared to a] shooter, what the sales numbers are, it’s actually kind of scary in just the amount of violence. But what we’re doing is... we’re going to try to bring this to light subtly.

I look at it like Invasion of the Body Snatchers. That movie came out back when, and people were like “oh, it’s a horror movie.” And some people took it at face value -- “oh, it's a horror movie... I’m afraid of body snatchers!” But other people realized that the underlying message was McCarthyism, and what was going on in America at the time.

We’re hoping that someone who plays the game a lot and who really follows the story, and doesn’t just skip through it and pays attention, that we can spark them to say “you know what, I’m going to look into this.” That’s all. “I’m going to gain interest in this, and find out what’s really going on here. What am I doing?” In the game you’re doing all kind of crazy stuff for this company. You’re sent on all these different missions, and then you find out what’s wrong with this deniability and what’s wrong with everything in general. (...) it’s kind of scary how reality is as crazy what we’re making, what we’ve put in the game, in this fantasy. It’s to say this is what reality is -- you may not know about it and you sort of need to know. (...) And finally we finally settled on the politically-charged PMCs because we wanted to deliver a message.

(...)And then also, on the political side of like, "man, do you know what PMCs are doing overseas? Do you understand what’s going on in America right now?" And maybe people will even watch... you know, people get fed stuff from the media, right? You get fed the news, you get fed this and that but when you do your own research you get your own perspective, rather that what’s being fed to you.(...)

QED

Eel O'Brian

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2008, 10:02:40 AM »
ha, what a load of fucking bullshit
sup

GilloD

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2008, 10:24:30 AM »
Quote
Weren't we all horrified by the Blackwater scandal not even a year ago? And now I'm supposed to play as Blackwater and feel great about it?

I thought it was supposed to be anti-Blackwater?   ???
ok here we go: an interview from last August with the lead designer

On one hand, it's anti-PMC because there's a lot of chatter about how they can do whatever they want and the PMC characters are awfully dark, untrustworthy and power hungry. But then actually being in a PMC is AWESOME. And there's frequent talk of how the military can't do the jobs in new warfare- A number of your missions are contracted by the military. And when the game ends, our heroes start their own PMC. So what's the lesson? PMCs don't kill people, people kill people. PMCs are awesome. Hoo-ah.
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Eel O'Brian

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2008, 10:40:20 AM »
i wasn't necessarily talking about you earlier, gillod

it just seemed from what i read around the internet that some of the same people who would gleefully fuck hookers for the health and then kill them for the refund in gta, or shoot faceless german soldiers by the scores in WWII games, were the same ones getting offended by this

it just struck me that people tend to pick and choose their sacred cows, and as far as i am concerned in video games there shouldn't be any

i was mildly interested in this when i thought it was just a tasteless shooter with an over-the-top offensive atmosphere

now i'm reading in the quote above that it's supposed to be some sort of vague "lesson," and fuck a bunch of motherfuckers trying to cram a lesson down my throat, especially a lesson which appears to be "hey, we want you to shoot a bunch of guys, but we want you to feel bad about it later"

they can eat shit

keep your "subtle" messages out of my killing simulators, asshole devs



« Last Edit: April 05, 2008, 10:42:59 AM by Eel_O_Brian »
sup

GilloD

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #48 on: April 05, 2008, 11:15:46 AM »
i wasn't necessarily talking about you earlier, gillod

it just seemed from what i read around the internet that some of the same people who would gleefully fuck hookers for the health and then kill them for the refund in gta, or shoot faceless german soldiers by the scores in WWII games, were the same ones getting offended by this

it just struck me that people tend to pick and choose their sacred cows, and as far as i am concerned in video games there shouldn't be any

i was mildly interested in this when i thought it was just a tasteless shooter with an over-the-top offensive atmosphere

now i'm reading in the quote above that it's supposed to be some sort of vague "lesson," and fuck a bunch of motherfuckers trying to cram a lesson down my throat, especially a lesson which appears to be "hey, we want you to shoot a bunch of guys, but we want you to feel bad about it later"

they can eat shit

keep your "subtle" messages out of my killing simulators, asshole devs





Like I said, those games take place in fantasy universes. The Nazis have become such a caricature of evil that we're willing to accept Hitler in a robot suit- Hell, the Nazis were probably at work on it. As a result, even the most realistic D-Day sim is a celebration of the heroism of Americans, reliving the glory days of history etc etc.

If the game, liek CoD4, had taken place during a fictitious war in a fake location, I'd be okay with it. But sucking at the teat of recent historical tragedy to give your game some edge is tasteless. If the material were more well handled, I'd give it a pass, but it's just crude here.
wha

y2kev

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #49 on: April 05, 2008, 11:48:28 AM »
The game is definitively antiPMC. SPOILERZ: The PMC is evil and plots against America. The game is pretty damn clear about who the profiteering assholes are. If you see a value judgement in, "WELL THEY MAKE SHITTONS OF MONEY," then there would be a problem.
haw

Eel O'Brian

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #50 on: April 05, 2008, 12:09:23 PM »
i don't remember the WWII COD or BiA games taking place in any fantasy universe, or any robot suits - i remember the COD and BiA guys taking pride in their realistic setting

you're still casually shooting avatars of real human beings, and a lot of those guys are still alive

i wonder how they feel about being depicted as the embodiment of evil screaming heil hitler every five seconds, when the vast majority of them had no idea why they were even fighting and despised hitler for doing that to them

but hey, you get to play the heroic russians, and unless you did some deep digging  into their WWII history you'd never know that the russian soldiers were every bit as prone to rape and torture and mass murder just as heavily as any SS troops

and as for gta, it is very loose with its fantasy, basically only changing names and signs to morph NY into LC, and *chuckle* it's funny when the fat corrupt liberty city *wink-wink* cop gets shot in the face

my point is, they're all just video games, even the ones with the realest of settings, and taking offense at one bit of tasteless profiting off misery and human suffering while shrugging at another strikes me as a bit disingenuous
« Last Edit: April 05, 2008, 12:37:57 PM by Eel_O_Brian »
sup

GilloD

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2008, 02:46:18 PM »
The game is definitively antiPMC. SPOILERZ: The PMC is evil and plots against America. The game is pretty damn clear about who the profiteering assholes are. If you see a value judgement in, "WELL THEY MAKE SHITTONS OF MONEY," then there would be a problem.

Yeah, but the whole game is basically a big advertisement for how SUPER AWESOME FUN IT IS to be a PMC. And then Salem and Rios start a PMC at the end, so it's kind of a 'Don't hate the PMC, hate the PMCer' thing.

And Eel, I think you're right, except that you undervalue the presence of allegory and metaphor in something like GTA. Calling it "Liberty City" and not "New York", allows us to reflect on a new landscape without imparting our pre-installed value judgments about New York. WW II is far enough back that almost no one who played CoD had been in WWII- It's slowly fading into heroic legend. But Army of Two uses a historical vernacular that's too real and too actual for the game to be able to take the liberties that it does. In like 30 years you could make a 9/11 game because it would have faded into the realm of legend and narrative. But now it's still. Fact.
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demi

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2008, 05:16:37 PM »
Oh my god the camera is so bad, the aiming is so bad, oh my god there's texture pop-in but that's JEW-E3 (i made that up it means UE3 cause Epic are jews), it controls so bad
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bud

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2008, 05:19:25 PM »
isn't this game supposed to be really gay, literally
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y2kev

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2008, 05:24:04 PM »
The game is definitively antiPMC. SPOILERZ: The PMC is evil and plots against America. The game is pretty damn clear about who the profiteering assholes are. If you see a value judgement in, "WELL THEY MAKE SHITTONS OF MONEY," then there would be a problem.

Yeah, but the whole game is basically a big advertisement for how SUPER AWESOME FUN IT IS to be a PMC. And then Salem and Rios start a PMC at the end, so it's kind of a 'Don't hate the PMC, hate the PMCer' thing.

And Eel, I think you're right, except that you undervalue the presence of allegory and metaphor in something like GTA. Calling it "Liberty City" and not "New York", allows us to reflect on a new landscape without imparting our pre-installed value judgments about New York. WW II is far enough back that almost no one who played CoD had been in WWII- It's slowly fading into heroic legend. But Army of Two uses a historical vernacular that's too real and too actual for the game to be able to take the liberties that it does. In like 30 years you could make a 9/11 game because it would have faded into the realm of legend and narrative. But now it's still. Fact.

I think the ultimate point they are trying (if they are trying to make any point at all) is that PMCs have their role functioning alongside a traditional military and that any attempt to fully replace one with the other would harm national security.

But I waaaaay thought that the use of 9/11 footage was wrong. Not because it was "too soon," but because it was tasteless and tacky.
haw

GilloD

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #55 on: April 05, 2008, 06:07:45 PM »
The game is definitively antiPMC. SPOILERZ: The PMC is evil and plots against America. The game is pretty damn clear about who the profiteering assholes are. If you see a value judgement in, "WELL THEY MAKE SHITTONS OF MONEY," then there would be a problem.

Yeah, but the whole game is basically a big advertisement for how SUPER AWESOME FUN IT IS to be a PMC. And then Salem and Rios start a PMC at the end, so it's kind of a 'Don't hate the PMC, hate the PMCer' thing.

And Eel, I think you're right, except that you undervalue the presence of allegory and metaphor in something like GTA. Calling it "Liberty City" and not "New York", allows us to reflect on a new landscape without imparting our pre-installed value judgments about New York. WW II is far enough back that almost no one who played CoD had been in WWII- It's slowly fading into heroic legend. But Army of Two uses a historical vernacular that's too real and too actual for the game to be able to take the liberties that it does. In like 30 years you could make a 9/11 game because it would have faded into the realm of legend and narrative. But now it's still. Fact.

I think the ultimate point they are trying (if they are trying to make any point at all) is that PMCs have their role functioning alongside a traditional military and that any attempt to fully replace one with the other would harm national security.

But I waaaaay thought that the use of 9/11 footage was wrong. Not because it was "too soon," but because it was tasteless and tacky.

Agreed. In CoD4, it would almost (ALMOST!) be okay. But in a game like this, where there's just. Mindless violence, it's a wildly inappropriate and juvenile way to give your game "the edge".
wha

demi

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2008, 06:12:10 PM »
btw, how do you play the game mostly meleeing people - you get slaughtered if you even so much as stand out in the open for a few seconds

Fuckin recruit difficulty playing noobs, go buy a PS3
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y2kev

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #57 on: April 06, 2008, 11:04:22 AM »
btw, how do you play the game mostly meleeing people - you get slaughtered if you even so much as stand out in the open for a few seconds

Fuckin recruit difficulty playing noobs, go buy a PS3

Have your partner build aggro.
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demi

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Re: Army of Two: A Review For You, Boo Boo. Spoilurz.
« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2008, 09:54:54 PM »
Ok I beat it - this game is garbage, holy fuck

And I have to do it all over again on Professional  :'(

Rios is all serious, omg conspiracy omg, and then they play a cutscene where they playfully trip each other while entering a door, like wtf make up your mind
fat