Author Topic: Yeahhh..I still dont like the FFXII battle system. (Read 7078 times)

MrAngryFace · « **on:** November 05, 2006, 03:08:16 PM »

Im currently in Barheim Passage and the battle system has caused me more grief than good.

Lets take the way battles occur first. Like an MMORPG you dont enter a self contained fight, you have to well, jigger for a position as you fight to keep out of the aggro range of other mobs. See, this is a problem. Unlike MMORPGs I dont have skills at my disposal to contain the situation. Mobs will just bolt out of attack range and my best hope is to chase them, but they tend to run towards more enemies who will pick one party member and murder them unless I use my always dwindling supply of potions.

Furthermore the AI Partners I have, tend to let their gambit take over, or take last orders so literally that they will run into the aggro range of other mobs, or just, well, die. Also switching orders as the mobs switch targets every other turn is a micromanagement nightmare.

It's like they took the mechanics of an FF title and threw it in an MMORPG environment and expected something to mesh, when clearly nothing really meshed. The FF system at its core is not suitable for an MMORPG environment. Throwing in some basic If Than statements for AI that will nine times out of 10 get you into trouble doesnt fix it either.

Don't get me wrong, I will try to keep playing. I love the story and so far the cast is my favorite FF cast ever, but god damnit if the dungeons arent a constant exercise in frustration.

Himu · « **Reply #1 on:** November 05, 2006, 03:09:12 PM »

The license board sucks ass

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #2 on:** November 05, 2006, 03:12:08 PM »

That too, the fact I was required to pay 20 dollars to SEE WHAT I WANT TO GET is hilarious.

Himu · « **Reply #3 on:** November 05, 2006, 03:14:08 PM »

DDS2 did the system a whole lot better. FFXII license board am DDS2 wannabe lol

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #4 on:** November 05, 2006, 03:16:45 PM »

I actually let a character die cause I was tired of having to support him haha

Himu · « **Reply #5 on:** November 05, 2006, 03:18:03 PM »

AHahah I've never done that before ever

I stopped playing FFXII and went back to Devil Summoner omg awesome

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #6 on:** November 05, 2006, 03:19:07 PM »

This dungeon is testing my patience. All anything drops are eye drops which are honestly pretty useless most of the time cept the Flan. So im out of potions, far away from the vendor, who knows where the fuk I am. Out of mana. AWESOME!

Himu · « **Reply #7 on:** November 05, 2006, 03:20:38 PM »

Dude that sucks.

FFXII needs a goddamn teleport ability. The world is way too huge and you often find yourself far from any civilization. I wish you could use a magic spell and telelport to any place you've been before at any time like in DQVIII.

Also, the game shouldn't have had game overs. The game is seriously way too huge and random. Sometimes you'll encounter some random monster who is like 30 levels above you and you get killed it one hit. Well uh oh! You just lost 2 hours of play time.

My God.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #8 on:** November 05, 2006, 03:21:59 PM »

Well if theyre gonna be all WOW MMORPG they should adopt some of the things that made MMORPGs playable.

I predict FF12 backlash once people wake up. Its clearly an 8.0 RPG in my book, and honestly I think VP2 is the better game.

Himu · « **Reply #9 on:** November 05, 2006, 03:23:26 PM »

Agreed on all fronts, except about VP2 because I haven't played it yet.

People won't wake up. It's Final fucking Fantasy. Overrated confirmed total, and this is coming from someone who LIKES the game.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #10 on:** November 05, 2006, 03:53:42 PM »

Oh man, I just beat this boss I almost lost becuase of LUCK wtf.

I just barely happened to survive the 80 gajillion entire party damage spells. If I had lost I think I woulda traded the game in haha.

Vizzys · « **Reply #11 on:** November 05, 2006, 04:09:24 PM »

Yeah Barheim passage sucks (tight quarters bad) , I remember getting my ass kicked lots there. The license board is fine if you conserve your points, because the best way to get money is by selling your loot anyway. I really have had no problems.
I also beat that fire boss via luck, it gets easier...

I'm not sure wtf himuro is talking about. You can teleport anywhere you have been via teleport crystals. You use these crystals at certain save crystals. Maybe you have to get to a certain point in the game first, I dont remember.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #12 on:** November 05, 2006, 04:18:38 PM »

License board would be fine IF it told you all the squares. I hate GUESSING unless ive bought the strat guide or read some lame FAQ on gamefaqs.

I think Himuro is talking about MMORPG porting to town. FFXII insists on placing us in MMORPG mechanics from the mid 90s when MMORPGs sucked. You cant effectively make dungeon runs when backtracking so much. Its just lame time wasting crap.

cubicle47b · « **Reply #13 on:** November 05, 2006, 04:34:16 PM »

I really love the battle system so far and find it makes dungeon exploration really fun. My annoyance with the game has been the license board, a couple scenarios (running from bounty hunters and the last leg of a certain rescue operation). Respawn times could be longer, too, but so far it hasn't been much of a problem. It's the first Final Fantasy title I've liked in a *long* time. VIII was the last one I finished and I didn't actually like that game which means FFT and that's not even a real FF game.

I haven't been this happy with Square Enix since the early Playstation years.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #14 on:** November 05, 2006, 04:35:09 PM »

i'm sure it's entirely subjective, but how can you like NOT being in control of your party?

Disposable White Guy · « **Reply #15 on:** November 05, 2006, 04:35:50 PM »

I am officially posting without reading.

I haven't opened it yet, but someone was telling me that the battle system reminded him of Vagrant Story a lot. Now I'm not sure if I want to open it.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #16 on:** November 05, 2006, 04:36:32 PM »

no, it really reminds me of MMORPG combat, especially FF11. i can't recall the person who told me that the combat was nothing like it, but he is so very wrong.

Disposable White Guy · « **Reply #17 on:** November 05, 2006, 04:39:57 PM »

I never played FFXI, because apparently you need to be fluent in Japanese to enjoy it.

Vizzys · « **Reply #18 on:** November 05, 2006, 04:43:31 PM »

The only similarities between FF11's battle system is that fact its real time and you have to target your enemies.

...Thats about it.

I own both games.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #19 on:** November 05, 2006, 04:45:56 PM »

Im glad you do, but the battle system in FF12 still kinda suxxxxx

Vizzys · « **Reply #20 on:** November 05, 2006, 04:50:50 PM »

Well I can't force you to like it.

BUT I CAN TRY!

LIKE THE BATTLE SYSTEM

I tryed.

Seriously though, that part in the sewers sucked assssss, especially that firehorse thing. it does get easier, and you can teleport at any teleport crystal back to any town.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #21 on:** November 05, 2006, 04:53:52 PM »

fire horse was easy, I think ashe had unlimited potions or something, the queen mimic made me ANGRY

cubicle47b · « **Reply #22 on:** November 05, 2006, 05:02:40 PM »

I control my party when I need to but most battles in RPGs can be played with a fairly simple set of commands and this allows me to do that. I play the party leader and decide who to attack and everyone's only attack gambit is set to attack the party leader's target. Everything else is healing / negative status removal orders. Special cases (offensive magic use, etc.) are handled by me.

I think leading parties and eventually making raid level decisions in WoW might have a big influence on why I like this game.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #23 on:** November 05, 2006, 05:06:21 PM »

I hate raids, which is why I dont like this battle system I guess lol.

cubicle47b · « **Reply #24 on:** November 05, 2006, 05:16:41 PM »

Well, FFXII is more like running a really stupid 5 man in WoW (with no aggro management) than raiding. I meant I don't like micromanaging anymore.

Vizzys · « **Reply #25 on:** November 05, 2006, 06:15:14 PM »

The mimic queen was way easy... how did it give you trouble?

And yeah most of the time when a fourth person joins your party they have unlimited potions. If they do, take it as a hint to level up... because not wasting your own potions is awesome.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #26 on:** November 05, 2006, 06:44:24 PM »

Mimic Queen was hard cause she started doing MANY spells near the end that were totalling my party.

Firemane was a big fat joke with Ashe tossing potions at EVERYONE

Himu · « **Reply #27 on:** November 05, 2006, 10:00:16 PM »

I was fine with the battle system unti lthey full introduced gambits. That's when it went to shit because when fighting the Horse Boss I tried beating it without Gambits and it was IMPOSSIBLE. Things get way too hectic and annoying to even consider not using gambits. I used gambits the next time and all I had to do was stand there.

demi · « **Reply #28 on:** November 05, 2006, 10:10:15 PM »

Battle system is boring, it is the same as all the other games, I am not seeing how this is different.

Vizzys · « **Reply #29 on:** November 05, 2006, 10:12:27 PM »

Quote from: demi on November 05, 2006, 10:10:15 PM

Battle system is boring, it is the same as all the other games, I am not seeing how this is different.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #30 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:08:04 PM »

Fighting without gambits is impossible because it requires that at every turns end for every person you tell them what to do. That would be fine if the enemy didn't make split second decisions and the battle didnt move in "real time".

As it is Gambit system IS required because wtf, who has time for that shit. Trouble is the Gambit system will more often than not get in the way whenever you try to focus on getting a party member to do something that isnt labeled as a priority in their gambit. So say you have someone cast fire, but right after that is done, you have to hop back to them real quick or they're off doing their gambit. I think you lose some turn time when that happens too.

In which case you turn off their gambit but then after they do a turn they just stand there stupid. It just feels like im fighting the Gambit system....at least until I am able to purchase the bulk of the good gambit options.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #31 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:15:04 PM »

wait

wait

WAIT

YOU HAFTA PURCHASE AI OPTIONS?

?

W

T

F

MY GOD

WORST GAME DESIGN EVER

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #32 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:17:21 PM »

Haha like I said, FFX Battle System + FFXII Story/Characters/Setting = OMG BEST FF EVER

But instead I have a game I feel compelled to play even tho I fucking hate the gameplay.

demi · « **Reply #33 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:18:02 PM »

Yeah there is a shop dedicated to it, but they cost ~50 a piece! I dunno, I bought them all. Most of them was crap like "HP < 50%", "HP < 40%"

I mean, I can never tell when to cast that spell! It's such a hard decision to make.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #34 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:19:04 PM »

YOU BUY GAMbiTS
YOU BUY LICENSES
YOU BUY ARMOR
YOU BUY WEAPON
YOU BUY MAGIC

OMG OMG OMG GRIND GRIND GRIND RITE? lolz

Himu · « **Reply #35 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:22:00 PM »

Yeah basically. Who the fuck thought of this bull crap.

Vizzys · « **Reply #36 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:22:55 PM »

lol most of the gambits are useless at those stores.

brawndolicious · « **Reply #37 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:23:53 PM »

So it's pretty confusing for noobs?

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #38 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:27:28 PM »

well its not confusing, its just feels like im fighting the game more than the enemies.

brawndolicious · « **Reply #39 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:29:35 PM »

Quote from: MrAngryFace on November 05, 2006, 11:27:28 PM

well its not confusing, its just feels like im fighting the game more than the enemies.

I actually find that idea kind of fun after beating N3. You say the story is good though?

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #40 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:34:09 PM »

I dont mean it the way you seem to think I mean it.

Pretend you were invited to play baseball, but when you showed up everyone was playing football, but they called it baseball and insisted you still try and play it like baseball.

The story, characters, and setting are excellent. If this had FFX's battle system it would have been the best RPG of the year and best FF ever.

brawndolicious · « **Reply #41 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:43:03 PM »

Quote from: MrAngryFace on November 05, 2006, 11:34:09 PM

I dont mean it the way you seem to think I mean it.
Pretend you were invited to play baseball, but when you showed up everyone was playing football, but they called it baseball and insisted you still try and play it like baseball.
The story, characters, and setting are excellent. If this had FFX's battle system it would have been the best RPG of the year and best FF ever.

So it's just fucking tedious? I just saw a video review and it says that there's basically a lot less strategy and more melee attacks and healing gambits. I'll probably wait for a used or edtior's choice copy.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #42 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:43:48 PM »

I would, I just bought it cause im an idiot with money.

brawndolicious · « **Reply #43 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:52:37 PM »

I'd never buy a game for full price unless it was a multiplayer game that everybody I knew was getting.

Himu · « **Reply #44 on:** November 06, 2006, 02:03:42 AM »

ASLFAJDF aughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I LOST 2 HOURS OF PLAY TIME GOD

Note to Square Enix: The next time you attempt to make an mmorpg like world in a single player game, please give the game assets that make mmorpgs and dungeon crawlers not annoying. When designing a dungeon, particularly dungeon crawlers, you do not space out save points by an hour and a half. Furthermore, Game Overs in a mmorpg like world where it can take 30 minutes to an hour to reach civilization to save and/or buy items, is ludicrous. A save anywhere feature would make the game easy as hell, however, when you have single player games in large worlds, as Dragon Quest VIII expertly showed, it is wise to allow players to continue their game, but with penalties for dying. It is a heck of a lot better than starting over 2 hours of play time.

References: Shin Megami Tensei series, Dragon Quest VIII, and mmorpgs (including your own).

Thank you for your time.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #45 on:** November 06, 2006, 02:04:55 AM »

Hahaha, the GUEST characters always have like 40,000 hi potions. Im abusing that now to level. The guest got mad and lectured me cause i keep entering and leaving the dungeon.

They just sit and heal you all the live long day long as they're in your party. I just set Fran to steal and run around and hit stuff while she steals loot to sell and stupid Guest character keeps throwin hi potions at me.

Vizzys · « **Reply #46 on:** November 06, 2006, 03:00:42 AM »

Poor himuro,

Thats never happened to me and I'm 42 hours in. If my party gets fucked up, I use my reserve members and run like hell away. Usually its one of those elementals, those things are fucking beasts.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #47 on:** November 06, 2006, 03:09:01 AM »

im making 7000k a run lol, stupid Guest character. KEEP TOSSIN THOSE HI POTIONS

Vizzys · « **Reply #48 on:** November 06, 2006, 03:11:42 AM »

THEY WILL NEVER RUN OUT, I tell you its genius.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #49 on:** November 06, 2006, 03:15:01 AM »

lol, the guest should just say 'lets grind here a while, i have a lot of hi potions'

Vizzys · « **Reply #50 on:** November 06, 2006, 03:15:54 AM »

Where are you at right now?

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #51 on:** November 06, 2006, 03:18:17 AM »

just the mines, just power leveling and buying everything in town while this moron is with me.

Vizzys · « **Reply #52 on:** November 06, 2006, 03:23:54 AM »

Ah where I leveled up/got money was the cliffs across from the mines, I got a 77 chain from killing those walking birds. I ran from the forest past those black chocobos and back for them to respawn.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #53 on:** November 06, 2006, 03:25:35 AM »

lol, well im not far enough in to wander yet, the story is forcing me along but I wont look a gift horse in the mouth

Vizzys · « **Reply #54 on:** November 06, 2006, 03:30:42 AM »

Well the more you kill of a certain enemy in a row, the higher the chance they will drop rare items. Not sure if you knew that but its pretty good, they drop like katanas I sold for like 2000 each.

demi · « **Reply #55 on:** November 06, 2006, 03:30:50 AM »

i ran into a Silence Trap and dont have any Echo Herbs and there arent any Save Crystals to heal me, great dungeon!

blah

Takuan · « **Reply #56 on:** November 06, 2006, 06:01:30 AM »

I've put 35 hours into FFXII so far with gambits as follows for every character except my lead:

1. Party Leader Target: Attack
2. Ally <70% HP: Cure

Sometimes I'll enable "Enemy > 1000 HP: Steal" on one of my support characters when I'm grinding.

I find MP usage to be very inefficient with gambits enabled, and sometimes it's useful to break an action in favor of another. With bosses in particular I do a LOT of manual commands, and if I went with gambits I don't think I would've had as much success as I have. Maybe it's because I haven't bothered to really explore the system much, I dunno, but so far there isn't a need to.

I've made my peace with the license board. With all the grinding I've done I have a fuckton of unspent LP. I can go and unlock skills and equipment licenses for items that aren't even available yet. On my main characters I'm always several tiers ahead of the best available equipment. Other than the guesswork, it's not that awful (but it's far from a good system). The variation it allows is kind of okay, I suppose.

My biggest beef is with the dungeons. So far they're just really long and boring save one or two boss encounters, and this one I just completed could've been designed better from a gameplay standpoint; there were two completely unexpected boss encounters (no save point/crystal nearby, no architecture signifying a boss' dwelling) that almost cost me an hour or so of gameplay. Both fights I went in hurting, but I guess that made for more of a challenge. I wasn't satisfied at all when I beat them, though... it was more like, "Finally, time to get the fuck outta here."

Yeah. I don't even know if the game's an 8 for me. The only truly redeeming quality here is the presentation (absolutely terrific in every way), whereas the things that matter either flawed or average. I don't understand the 9.5's and 10s being thrown around. Right now I'd rate the game a 7.5 going by what has thus far been an engaging story and the fantastic world design. Without that, it's easily a 6 or lower.

Error2k4 · « **Reply #57 on:** November 06, 2006, 07:00:38 AM »

I pretty much agree with what MAF is saying, monsters in the game aren't really hard what makes them hard is how fucking clunky the interface and menus are I mean... when you are fighting against the game systems instead of making things easier there is something really wrong there.

the dungeons are really bland, LB is the crappiest system ever whoever thought that was a good idea was fucking drunk (and yeah DDS2 did this earlier and better imo). I just wasn't having fun with it. think I got till ozmone plains and just blah decided to stop playing.

the thread at gaf is a HUGE wankfest for the game dont see what so brilliant about it aside from graphics.

Himu · « **Reply #58 on:** November 06, 2006, 10:18:09 AM »

Omg it's Error! Posting side by side by brethren once again!

Quote from: Takuan on November 06, 2006, 06:01:30 AM

Yeah. I don't even know if the game's an 8 for me. The only truly redeeming quality here is the presentation (absolutely terrific in every way), whereas the things that matter either flawed or average. I don't understand the 9.5's and 10s being thrown around. Right now I'd rate the game a 7.5 going by what has thus far been an engaging story and the fantastic world design. Without that, it's easily a 6 or lower.

qft

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #59 on:** November 06, 2006, 11:25:35 AM »

Error: Well I think its a credit to the story/character/and settings that I still play this game despite hating its battle system.

I still think VP2 is RPG of the year and sorely overlooked as it stands in the shadow of FFXII. I would have given VP2 8.5/9 and FFXII an 7.5/8

Production values shouldnt make it impossible for lower scores to occur.

News:

Author Topic: Yeahhh..I still dont like the FFXII battle system. (Read 7078 times)