Author Topic: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch  (Read 2453 times)

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Crushed

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Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« on: April 08, 2008, 11:25:17 AM »
Okay, this game is pretty fun, just got it yesterday and I've been playing it a whole damn lot. But there's one thing that really fucking annoys me, and it's something that I've always hated in games, especially adventure games.

Okay, I can deal with the fact that everybody in Ace Japamerica is some kind of compulsive perjurer, that's pretty much the whole premise of the game: Occam's Razor is a ridiculous concept and each murder case must have more false identities, red herrings, and hidden scandals than an episode of Law & Order. Well, normal Law & Order anyway, even the most ridiculous AA case isn't up to SVU's level ("The altar boy was the one who molested the priest, who was actually the mother of his own father.") That's not the problem.


The problem is, the main character is a dumbass who doesn't give a shit about your thoughts, opinions, or logic. It's frustrating when you spend half an hour flawlessly making direct logical connections and presenting those... BUT SUDDENLY!


-- WITNESS TESTIMONY: "IT'S A SECRET" --

1. I can only tell you this much.
2. I started doing the thing, but I can't tell you why.
3. I was doing the thing when I witnessed the crime, but it's a secret.
4. I stopped doing the thing and ran away, it's secret why I was there.
5. My reason for all that is a secret, by the way. But that's all I know.


"Okay... I have Evidence here which shows exactly WHY it was a secret. It's worked on multiple occasions before.

"Right. I'll just select the last statement about 'the reason' and... PRESENT EVIDENcwhy isn't the penalty bar disappearing."


Apollo: DERP YOUR HONWHORE THAT STORTEMANT ARE IN TOTAL CONTRADORCTIONS TO DIS EVADINCSE
Crushed: wait what i wasn't trying to point out a contradiction what the shit are you doing apollo
Judge: Lol not it isn't contradictory, idiot.
Crushed: jesus god why did you do that
Apollo: WELL GORSH I GUESS I SHORE IS DUMB HUH, I JUST CAN'T DO THAT THINKIN, SHUCKS SORRY
Judge: Yep you am dumb, this is calling the player dumb, you Crushed, this game is calling you dumb by extension of your in-game avatar, despite the fact that he makes his own conclusions and you have no control over his stupid.


"Shit. That didn't work out. I guess I have to present it during the statement when Witness said... they started doing the Action? Going by Evidence, and the circumstances of the Action, that makes the most sense to point out the reason. I guess.

"Whatever, this time it'll work. PRESENT... oh what in hell why"


Apollo: YOR HONOR, TAKE A LOOKY AT THIS EVYDENSE HERE
Crushed: Oh. I guess it did work. So why is the penalty bar still-
Judge: ...and?
Crushed: please tell me that the judge is being stupid judge and not actually noticing something "wrong"
Apollo: "AND" WUT?!?!?
Judge: What about this evidence is relevant to the statement?
Crushed: Holy mother of fuck there is no fucking way, the judge IS just being stupid, that evidence is like a goddamn DNA confession video of the witness's reason, with signed affidavits for its opening and closing credits. It is 100% related, in every way. It is directly related. Please Apollo, tell me you're just acting like a troll and playing dumb because you want to be like Socrates.
Apollo: ...the relevance is obvious!
Crushed: praise the lord the boy can think hallelu
Apollo: ...LOL I SURPOSSE IT AIN'T RELTATED AT ALL, DERP APOLLO-CRUSHED AM SO DUMB FOR NOT BEING AS SMART AS YOU, SMART VIDEOGAME MAKERS
Crushed: don't speak for me you son of a bitch i hate you so fucking much right now why the fuck don't you just point out the obvious relevance there oh my god people in japamerica have the shittiest concept of "relevance" ever
Judge: That's right, you are stupid, you stupid moron. Whoops out of penalties! Despite proving that the prosecution is totally flawed, I presume that the case is closed. I will now ruin a life on the basis of highly contested evidence and vital unanswered questions.




So yeah. I hate that I have to choose the exact right moment, even when multiple moments are all legitimate and logical starting points for an argument based on evidence. Of course, dumbass Apollo doesn't give a damn that it IS relevant, because it's not "the right statement" to be presenting in response to... so he bends over and accepts that, just because the game makers want him (and by extension, me) to feel stupid for not picking their careful path. It's something I'm always pissed off about in adventure games, or even a lot of other games where you have a speaking protagonist. I try to do something, an NPC objects to my actions and presents a faulty reason, and the protagonist just accepts it despite there being obvious viable alternatives.

If each object or argument in Ace Attorney had... I dunno, "tags" or something, relating to their various attributes and relevance to the crime, it would do so much more. The game would be more challenging (blindly picking becomes a bit harder when the choices are multiplied several times, and sometimes vauge hunches wouldn't cut it), while being more logical. You could more specifically choose the point that you're trying to make, instead of just giving your Attorney a valid thread of logic and watching them strangle themselves with it.





Still, it's otherwise a really fun game.  :D
« Last Edit: April 08, 2008, 11:28:32 AM by Crushed »
wtc

Rman

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2008, 11:48:19 AM »
The Ace Attorney games have some crazy cases.  So many twists.  Case 5 of the original game is still my favorite case.

demi

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2008, 01:47:51 PM »
1 > 3 > 4 > 2

HES GOT A DEVIL IN HIS HAND
fat

bork

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2008, 10:03:49 PM »
I just finished Apollo Justice last night.  If you think it's messed up now, wait until you get to the last case. 
spoiler (click to show/hide)
The flashback trial with Phoenix Wright and the original GBA-style visuals, complete with PW1 soundtrack, was by far the best part of the case.  It became a bit of an overkill, though, with the case starting normally, THEN going to a flashback, THEN the MASON system with the magatama, THEN normal again, THEN the Jurist system.  I get that the whole game was really all about Phoenix Wright, just played from Apollo's viewpoint, but it felt like it was really building up to something and then had a lackluster ending.  It would have been a lot cooler if they simply further broke down the game into five cases, with case #4 being a flashback case entirely from Phoenix's point of view, taking place both seven years ago and in the present, tying up the loose ends and then going into the final fifth case.  Oh well.
[close]

The original Ace Attorney, no fuck that...PHOENIX WRIGHT game remains the best in the series.  I think I'd have to rank PW3 next, just ahead of PW4, and then PW2.  Really the only game in the series I just wanted to be over quickly was PW2.  Don't know what it was about that game. 
ど助平

Rman

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2008, 10:21:46 PM »
I hated the cases in Ace Attorney 2.  PW1 also has the best music.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The best case, though, was the one where you defend Maya in the doctor murder trial.  Some crazy twist for that case.
[close]


Joe Molotov

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2008, 10:59:51 PM »
I loved the music from PW1 when you delivered a powerful piece of evidence and had the witness on the ropes.  :lol
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Rman

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2008, 11:02:58 PM »
Joe, did you know that they released an orchestral cd soundtrack of the Ace Attorney games?

Joe Molotov

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2008, 11:13:13 PM »
Joe, did you know that they released an orchestral cd soundtrack of the Ace Attorney games?

No, but I'll have to look for it now.
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bork

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2008, 11:28:38 PM »
Joe, did you know that they released an orchestral cd soundtrack of the Ace Attorney games?

No, but I'll have to look for it now.

It's really nice.  I ended up just keeping the first track, which has the courtroom songs from the first game, though. 
ど助平

MCD

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2008, 11:38:16 PM »
Quote
The original Ace Attorney, no fuck that...PHOENIX WRIGHT game remains the best in the series.  I think I'd have to rank PW3 next, just ahead of PW4, and then PW2.  Really the only game in the series I just wanted to be over quickly was PW2.  Don't know what it was about that game.

pretty much how i feel.

Beezy

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2008, 12:04:51 AM »
Joe, did you know that they released an orchestral cd soundtrack of the Ace Attorney games?
Where can I download this?!

Joe Molotov

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2008, 12:10:01 AM »
Joe, did you know that they released an orchestral cd soundtrack of the Ace Attorney games?
Where can I download this?!

I use Galbadia Hotel for my VG Soundtrack needs:
http://gh.ffshrine.org/soundtracks/g
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Jabberwocky

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2008, 12:12:06 AM »
mind if I hijack this thread? (there's no Japan Mag news thread yet, and if this forum is anything like the other forum hell will break loose if anyone other than Groo or duckroll posts the weekly thread)

unless I'm mistaken, I do believe GS6 has been revealed in this week's Famitsu (release date undetermined).

and Imas is back. :O

edit: I was kind of right, it's a new GS game but you play as a prosecutor (Edgeworth).
« Last Edit: April 09, 2008, 12:13:55 AM by Nitro »
8)

y2kev

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2008, 12:16:39 AM »
omg they just announced a new gs game i am in complete shock
haw

MCD

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2008, 12:20:31 AM »
you play as a prosecutor?

Beezy

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2008, 12:32:20 AM »
you play as a prosecutor?

Quote from: Error
Perfect Prosecutor (DS/Capcom/??)
* A law adventure game where you act as the prosecutor.
* Main characters are Miles Edgeworth, Dick Gumshoe
* You control Edgeworth, searching for overlooked evidence and inconsistencies at the crime scene.
* New search and deduction systems are introduced.
:rock :rock :rock

MCD

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2008, 12:35:35 AM »
Apollo Justice feels like a fucking sidequest compared to this hahaha.

Rman

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2008, 12:36:48 AM »
Poor Apollo.  One game and out.

Edit: Beezy, Joe should have you covered regarding the orchestral soundtrack CD.  I actually got the soundtrack from my cousins and he probably got it off some torrent site.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2008, 12:38:55 AM by Rman »

Joe Molotov

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2008, 12:55:04 AM »
you play as a prosecutor?

Quote from: Error
Perfect Prosecutor (DS/Capcom/??)
* A law adventure game where you act as the prosecutor.
* Main characters are Miles Edgeworth, Dick Gumshoe
* You control Edgeworth, searching for overlooked evidence and inconsistencies at the crime scene.
* New search and deduction systems are introduced.
:rock :rock :rock

That actually sounds pretty awesome. Screw Apollo Justice, he's dead to me now.
©@©™

MCD

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2008, 02:08:06 AM »
Quote
I think people are getting the wrong idea about the Gyakuten game.

groo, what do you mean by this? don't tell me miles turned into a defense lawyer  :lol :lol

Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2008, 03:20:48 AM »
don't tell me miles turned into a defense lawyer  :lol :lol

It's a gaiden. I heard about it a few months ago - the gameplay is not the same afaik. You're not in the courtroom, and I don't think you're even prosecuting. You're searching the crime scene to work out what happened in the crime, and putting the pieces together for the prosecution. Hopefully some scans will turn up later so we have a better idea, but people seem to be expecting the same courtroom gameplay played from the other side of the room, and that's exactly what it isn't. The text we have so far describes the genre more as "crime-solving / deduction", than courtroom battling.

Edit: but if I'm wrong, feel free to :lol

You might want to post this over on GAF, some people are wigging out over your earlier comment.
野球

demi

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2008, 03:24:35 AM »
You might want to post this over on GAF, some people are wigging out over your earlier comment.

no way, that is the fun part
fat

Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2008, 03:25:11 AM »
You might want to post this over on GAF, some people are wigging out over your earlier comment.

no way, that is the fun part

 :lol

True, true.
野球

MCD

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2008, 03:28:30 AM »
sounds possible, plus the prosecutor usually gets it easy so it wouldn't be fun at all in the courtroom.

drohne

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2008, 03:30:36 AM »
wait, you play phoenix wright expecting sound game logic? i thought it was just a glorified launching pad for obscene boylove fanart. what's the hilarious 4chan meme i'm looking for? 'you're doing it incorrectly?'

MCD

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2008, 03:31:11 AM »
you are doing it wrong.

demi

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2008, 03:54:01 AM »
fat

MCD

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2008, 03:55:57 AM »
 :bow groo :bow2

Crushed

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2008, 10:38:02 AM »
wait, you play phoenix wright expecting sound game logic? i thought it was just a glorified launching pad for obscene boylove fanart. what's the hilarious 4chan meme i'm looking for? 'you're doing it incorrectly?'

I knew very well what I was getting into. I know that most "logical" games suffer from "game logic," where the protagonist instantly turns into a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow the second you lead him even slightly astray of his choreographed path. THAT DOES NOT MEAN I CANNOT COMMENT UPON IT

Oh, and I finished it last night. I still don't get what's up with Kristoph, his scar/wrinkle/devilface, how the fuck the mom was able to... well, you know.

I mean, he did it all because
spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Gramaryes were superstar clients that he really really really wanted to win a case for, and he didn't like Phoenix Wright? He paid $100,000 to forge evidence, planted the tools for two murders, successfully killing one, watched everyone from afar for seven years, and then killed his own ex-client, Zak, the second he re-appeared? Seven years worth of that, just because he didn't want to lose a big case? Nuh-uh. Not buying it. The dude has a mysterious devil-faced scar in his hand, and when you talk to him in prison there's six black Psycho-Locks. There's something else going on that the game didn't talk about.
[close]

And then there's the

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Mom. I can buy that getting shot in the head caused her to become an amnesiac and lose her sight. But how in the hell did she end up in another country, halfway around the world? That's some magic bullet! And who the hell did she leave Apollo to? Why did she just leave him? Who the FUCK was her first husband, who "died in a performing accident"? See, there's something not right here.
[close]

There's a bunch of things entirely that we aren't privy to. I was actually HOPING that the new game would answer those questions: that the defense attorney you faced would be Kristoph Gavin. It would help clear up a lot in the story. Oh well, crime scene stuff will still be cool.
wtc

Jabberwocky

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Re: Apollo Justice: Doesn't Give a Fuck What You Think, Bitch
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2008, 10:52:08 AM »
:D
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 11:43:53 AM by Nitro »
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