Author Topic: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?  (Read 20223 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Powerslave

  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #120 on: April 17, 2008, 12:29:57 AM »
:yourmomissouglywhenshetriedtoparticipateinanuglinesscontesttheysaidsorrynoprofessionals:

DJ_Tet

  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #121 on: April 17, 2008, 01:18:47 PM »
Cool, informative thread.
TIT

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #122 on: March 09, 2009, 10:58:42 AM »
bump
fat

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #123 on: March 09, 2009, 11:04:55 AM »
So I'm reading something about how there are no checkpoints during missions... Rockstar fails again.
SA had a feature where you if you failed a long mission you had the option to go back to the very end of it. IV has brought the feature back.

tiesto troll fails again.

:lol
fat

GilloD

  • TAKE THE LIFE OF FRED ASTAIRE. MAKE HIM PAY. TRANSFER HIS FAME TO YOU.
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #124 on: March 09, 2009, 11:29:12 AM »
So optimistic. GTA4 blew. I miss old, naive, excited GilloD.
wha

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #125 on: March 09, 2009, 11:30:02 AM »
I love reading threads about GTA4... it's SO funny, but this one stood out the most
fat

Darunia

  • Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #126 on: March 09, 2009, 11:38:05 AM »
gta iv is awesome, so is tlad. fuck yous haters

Kestastrophe

  • "Hero" isn't the right word, but its the first word that comes to mind
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #127 on: March 09, 2009, 11:40:18 AM »
Shit sucked. Just like KZ2, while technically impressive, there are better alternatives with substance out there and I could not bring myself to finish the game. piss, bow, etc.
jon

Human Snorenado

  • Stay out of Malibu, Lebowski
  • Icon
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #128 on: March 09, 2009, 12:30:25 PM »
So optimistic. GTA4 blew. I miss old, naive, excited GilloD.

You can find him in the Watchmen thread.
yar

GilloD

  • TAKE THE LIFE OF FRED ASTAIRE. MAKE HIM PAY. TRANSFER HIS FAME TO YOU.
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #129 on: March 09, 2009, 01:21:43 PM »
So optimistic. GTA4 blew. I miss old, naive, excited GilloD.

You can find him in the Watchmen thread.

Nay, dear Triumph, in this matter I am the Prophet. 6 months hence when the dust storms of nerd-superiority battles have settled, lo shall you wander from the wilderness of faux-pretension to say, "Pretty good. Pre-tt-y good".
wha

pilonv1

  • I love you just the way I am
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #130 on: March 09, 2009, 07:59:49 PM »
So I'm reading something about how there are no checkpoints during missions... Rockstar fails again.
SA had a feature where you if you failed a long mission you had the option to go back to the very end of it. IV has brought the feature back.

tiesto troll fails again.

:lol

:rofl

Well he's almost right - they did bring back mission check points in the DLC :teehee
itm

cool breeze

  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #131 on: March 09, 2009, 08:01:27 PM »
Lost and the Damned is way better than crappy GTA4

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #132 on: March 09, 2009, 08:06:01 PM »
Lost and the Damned is way better than crappy GTA4

why and how
IYKYK

cool breeze

  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #133 on: March 09, 2009, 08:21:51 PM »
Lost and the Damned is way better than crappy GTA4

why and how

-The most obvious reason is that driving is fun now; the caveat being that the better driving is only with motorcycles.  It isn't a big problem since you almost always have access to a bike no matter where you are, and if you don't have one near you, you can call someone to bring it to you.  It not only controls better, but you almost never get thrown off your bike.  The best way I can express this is that in GTA4 I used a taxi all the time, but in Lost and the Damned, I used it maybe once in the 7+ hours it lasted.

-No more dealing with fickle companions who call you at all times.  You can still call them up if you want to play some boring distraction, and if you don't want to, they won't be avoiding your requests (delivering bikes, weapons, etc.)

-Better characters, setting, etc.

-New weapons rock.  Semi-auto pistol is like a really accurate SMG, sawed off shotgun can be used on a bike, the grenade launcher is self-explanatory, and the super auto-shotgun pretty much can annihilate any vehicle or enemy in front of it.

-Most missions can only be failed if you die and not because someone out drove you or something; even if you do die, you can restart from a checkpoint (there is a checkpoint after every cutscene.)  The average mission here is also far more entertaining than most in GTA4.

The shooting controls are still a bit of a mess, car and helicopters still control poor, and there are a few other problems left over from GTA4, but overall it's a much better game than GTA4.  Again, I'd say the biggest reason is the motorcycle controls now.


The Fake Shemp

  • Ebola Carrier
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #134 on: March 09, 2009, 08:38:59 PM »
So optimistic. GTA4 blew. I miss old, naive, excited GilloD.

You can find him in the Watchmen thread.

 :lol

I was about to post how this very topic has eerie parallels.
PSP

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #135 on: March 09, 2009, 10:18:32 PM »
So this is GTA4 done right? How much is 1200 xbl points? Maybe I should go to Toys R' Us and get an XBL point card when I go get RE5 on Friday. You get a 20 dollar card for buying RE5 anyways.
IYKYK

pilonv1

  • I love you just the way I am
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #136 on: March 09, 2009, 10:29:20 PM »
It's 1600 points.
itm

cool breeze

  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #137 on: March 09, 2009, 10:44:32 PM »
yeah, it's $20 / 1600 points.  The best part about XBL is buying a bunch of cards when they go on sale and saving money in the end.

and it does have a lot of new features for that money.  The actual story takes 7 to 8 hours, there are these road rash style races on bikes where you can whack opponents off with a bat, and 25 or so Gang War missions where you basically just murder an enemy biker gang.  They have new multiplayer modes too; one interesting one is where a guy in a helicopter is up against a guy on a motorcycle.  Presentation wise there is also new music (mainly liberty rock music), shows (TV/comedy), etc.  The one dumb thing added was an ugly grain filter, but you can turn that off.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 10:54:42 PM by swaggaz »

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #138 on: March 09, 2009, 11:20:07 PM »
and it does have a lot of new features for that money.  The actual story takes 7 to 8 hours, there are these road rash style races on bikes where you can whack opponents off with a bat, and 25 or so Gang War missions where you basically just murder an enemy biker gang.

This sounds so much better than IV. IV didn't even have gangs. With L/D do you even see who's obviously a gang member?
IYKYK

cool breeze

  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #139 on: March 09, 2009, 11:37:31 PM »
somewhat...like, if someone dies there will be a message on top telling you their name and all that, but it really doesn't matter if they do die or not.  Gang War missions start with you riding down to the area on your bike, then a crew shows up, and you guys ride down and murder some rival bikers.  You do have two higher ups in the bike gang to call for support at any time who are unique tho.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #140 on: March 09, 2009, 11:40:09 PM »
I'm talking about like how in past GTA's it was OBVIOUS who was in what gang because they always wore specific colors, used specific guns, drove in specific types of vehicles.

I was really hoping that'd be taken to the next level in IV but that game didn't have any gangs in the end, and gangs are one of the reasons I play GTA.
IYKYK

cool breeze

  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #141 on: March 09, 2009, 11:48:38 PM »
then no, it's nothing that specific or deep.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #142 on: March 10, 2009, 12:46:16 AM »
oh

well that sucks

but it's nice to seem they've added a semblance of life to the game
IYKYK

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #143 on: March 17, 2009, 09:01:59 AM »
I'm talking about like how in past GTA's it was OBVIOUS who was in what gang because they always wore specific colors, used specific guns, drove in specific types of vehicles.

I was really hoping that'd be taken to the next level in IV but that game didn't have any gangs in the end, and gangs are one of the reasons I play GTA.

Yeah, I missed that in IV as well; I liked that there were special cars and outfits for the enemy gang. When Mercenaries brought back the "use this car as a disguise" gameplay, I was really, really hopeful that GTA IV would incorporate that. Missed chance, that.

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #144 on: April 30, 2009, 05:10:20 AM »
I thought to bring this thread back, since one of the other current threads was threatening to become a GTA IV hatefest.

I will add that I paid 20 buxx0rz at Target for the download card (free poster!), installed the DLC, played 2 missions, and went back to Saints Row 2. Oh, I did play one more game of multiplayer, and spent a lot of time laughing at how sluggish the controls feel. All. The. Time.

Hollywood

  • Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #145 on: April 30, 2009, 03:01:21 PM »
Playing both, I think both have their positives and negatives. If someone would combine the two games, Saints Row 2 and GTA 4, it would make for a badass game.

From GTA 4:

- Graphical power and less glitchiness, animations, smarter AI
- Longer streamlined main mode
- The satire from the radio, TV, and other media

From Saints Row 2:

- In general over the topness and ingenuity that used to be in the early GTA's missions
- Control scheme, changing weapons
- Side missions better

Something both games need:

- Stop with the crappy anticlimatic endings. You play for like 30, 40 hours and at the end you're just running down a dude to cap, Ultor tower or Statue of Liberty - both the same. Then you get jack shit for beating the game. "Oh here's a helicopter or some gay shit you got now - but oh wait, there's nothing to do in the damn city now." Find a way to put something meaningful in the game after its over to have a reason to play it, other than hunting down stunt jumps, tags, shooting birds, packages, CD's or whatever else. No one likes fucking collecting, no matter how much of a small side diversion it is.

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #146 on: May 01, 2009, 01:18:12 AM »
I actually enjoyed the pigeon-hunting game in GTA IV, because it had some decent cues when you got close to a bird, allowed for better audio locating of them, and they exploded in a satisfying puff of feathers.

Other than that, yeah, I have never hunted down all the packages in any other GTA game, or BULLY. Red Baloons? Tapes? Hidden Packages? Screw 'em. The worst part is trying to find out That One That You Missed. Which one is it? Who knows? Go back and check ALL the locations. I've got 49 of 50 oysters in GTA San Andreas, and will forever only have 49.

Collection blows, but I think there are ways to make it interesting. It's just laziness and me-too-ness that's keeping it at its default, constant level of suck-itude.

AdmiralViscen

  • Murdered in the digital realm
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #147 on: May 01, 2009, 10:16:04 AM »
In GTA: CW they put a marker on your map every time you find a hidden camera, so you can scratch them off whatever guide you're using. Also destroying them boosts your money during drug deals.

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #148 on: May 01, 2009, 10:43:55 AM »
What kills me is how many "GTA killers" came out during the space between San Andreas and GTA IV, where there were features clearly indicating some excellent gameplay:

Saints Row - Replay from mission start, restored to same state as mission initiation, including weapons, the car you brought to the mission, homies in your party
Crackdown - co-op play. co-op play with collectibles instanced per-player
Mercenaries - vehicles as faction disguise
Destroy All Humans - anal rape gun
Rockstar's own BULLY - reasonably fun, meaningfully deep, challenging melee combat

WrikaWrek

  • Let your soul glow
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #149 on: May 01, 2009, 11:13:13 AM »
GTAIV is still the best game of the generation for me. For someone who likes action, and story.

One of the amazing things about GTAIV is how immersive it is, in one of the missions i'm chasing this one dude, on foot, and the guy runs through traffic, a taxi gets hit by a bullet, and i use the car as cover in the middle of the street, and then the cops get involved, and it just looked like a movie, it was awesome.

Basically, the only things i think GTAIV was lacking, for the time it was released, was a better mission replay mode, or checkpoints. Aside from it, i couldn't care less about some tacked in Co Op mode, or stupid overpowered weapons, or whatever, because i love that GTAIV doesn't feel "overblown" like say a Saints Row.

Kestastrophe

  • "Hero" isn't the right word, but its the first word that comes to mind
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #150 on: May 01, 2009, 11:25:55 AM »
GTAIV is still the best game of the generation for me. For someone who likes action, and story.

One of the amazing things about GTAIV is how immersive it is, in one of the missions i'm chasing this one dude, on foot, and the guy runs through traffic, a taxi gets hit by a bullet, and i use the car as cover in the middle of the street, and then the cops get involved, and it just looked like a movie, it was awesome.
I can agree with that, and the coincidence stuff is a huge appeal to any sandbox game. To me though, I felt that the game was very unimmersive for other reasons. I thought that the controls were very unintuitive and I constantly felt that I was fighting them. Also, it is completely open ended. For instance, I don't remember what the mission was called, but it was the one where you had to chase the guy through a laundromat on foot, at which point he escaped out the back and escaped in a vehicle. I failed the mission a couple of times, so I parked a car right behind his getaway vehicle so he would have a harder time. After chasing him through the laundromat and dippin out the back door, I see that the game has made my diversion disappear  :maf
jon

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #151 on: May 01, 2009, 12:40:05 PM »
What's crazy is, stunts like that worked fine in GTA 3  most of the time. I had a couple missions where I brought the right car, or blocked the escape route, and made mincemeat of a mission that had been failed a few times. GTA IV erases the prep you do, and forces you to really play the missions the way you want them.

The main complaint I can't back is that GTA IV is ugly. I don't see it as ugly at all; I think they wanted a somewhat fuzzy, atmospheric look, and they nailed it. I had a few scenes like you've described, where a strange chance turned a whole accident into something very cinematic (albeit Michael Bay-esque).

It's also interesting how broken their cover mechanic is whenever it's used in MP. Instant-death.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #152 on: May 02, 2009, 04:19:34 AM »
What kills me is how many "GTA killers" came out during the space between San Andreas and GTA IV, where there were features clearly indicating some excellent gameplay:

Saints Row - Replay from mission start, restored to same state as mission initiation, including weapons, the car you brought to the mission, homies in your party
Crackdown - co-op play. co-op play with collectibles instanced per-player
Mercenaries - vehicles as faction disguise
Destroy All Humans - anal rape gun
Rockstar's own BULLY - reasonably fun, meaningfully deep, challenging melee combat

You forgot about Saint's Rows ability to let you keep every single car you store in your garage. Does it blow up? Great, you can restore for a tiny fee right from your garage. This makes me not go anal about those awesome rides I when for taking over gang territory and use my just rewards to the max.
IYKYK

pilonv1

  • I love you just the way I am
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #153 on: May 02, 2009, 05:21:48 AM »
Also Saints Row letting you customise EVERYTHING, even your gang and their signs/colours. And getting rewards from doing missions/side missions.
itm

Hollywood

  • Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #154 on: May 02, 2009, 06:18:07 PM »
I actually enjoyed the pigeon-hunting game in GTA IV, because it had some decent cues when you got close to a bird, allowed for better audio locating of them, and they exploded in a satisfying puff of feathers.

Other than that, yeah, I have never hunted down all the packages in any other GTA game, or BULLY. Red Baloons? Tapes? Hidden Packages? Screw 'em. The worst part is trying to find out That One That You Missed. Which one is it? Who knows? Go back and check ALL the locations. I've got 49 of 50 oysters in GTA San Andreas, and will forever only have 49.

Collection blows, but I think there are ways to make it interesting. It's just laziness and me-too-ness that's keeping it at its default, constant level of suck-itude.

Shooting them isn't bad, but the point is there's still fucking 100 of them. And also everytime you shoot your gun around a cop, oops, there's a star.

WrikaWrek

  • Let your soul glow
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #155 on: May 02, 2009, 09:13:09 PM »
Also Saints Row letting you customise EVERYTHING, even your gang and their signs/colours. And getting rewards from doing missions/side missions.

Who gives a shit?

So i can't make Niko look like a fat bitch, well guess what they are trying to tell a compelling story and characters. Seriously, Saints Row exists, go play that if you want that, but Saints Row is like the WWE to GTAIV's UFC.

Go play that shit, go play crackdown if you want crackdown, etc. I just don't understand people complaining about GTAIV not being like Saints Row or whatever, it's so distinguished mentally-challenged when you think about it.

Great Rumbler

  • Dab on the sinners
  • Global Moderator
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #156 on: May 02, 2009, 09:27:23 PM »
GTAIV sucked because it wasn't fun. It was designed to showcase Rockstar's talents in writing dialogue/stories and their new physics engine. Everything else was just a tacked-on afterthought.
dog

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #157 on: May 02, 2009, 09:31:25 PM »
People are complaining about GTA4 because it sucks

WrikaWreked
fat

Hollywood

  • Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #158 on: May 02, 2009, 09:52:46 PM »
Also Saints Row letting you customise EVERYTHING, even your gang and their signs/colours. And getting rewards from doing missions/side missions.

Who gives a shit?

So i can't make Niko look like a fat bitch, well guess what they are trying to tell a compelling story and characters. Seriously, Saints Row exists, go play that if you want that, but Saints Row is like the WWE to GTAIV's UFC.

Go play that shit, go play crackdown if you want crackdown, etc. I just don't understand people complaining about GTAIV not being like Saints Row or whatever, it's so distinguished mentally-challenged when you think about it.

I used the standard token black guy in Saints Row 2. I never got the big deal about customization, it really doesn't matter.

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #159 on: May 02, 2009, 09:54:02 PM »
Congratulations, you've discovered the human instinct called "choice"

Put into a sentence:

When given the option of customization, I chose to use the default token black guy.
fat

AdmiralViscen

  • Murdered in the digital realm
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #160 on: May 02, 2009, 11:13:40 PM »
How can anyone keep pretending that GTA4 was telling a compelling story after seeing the ending? Nevermind the whole second act being a meandering pointless piece of shit.

Saints Row 4 lyfe. People complain about GTA4 not being like SR because SR is like GTA:SA taken to the next level.

Great Rumbler

  • Dab on the sinners
  • Global Moderator
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #161 on: May 03, 2009, 12:07:52 AM »
How can anyone keep pretending that GTA4 was telling a compelling story after seeing the ending?

GTAIV's story felt the most ridiculous to me when Niko's bemoaning his life and agonizing over killing somebody when just five minutes prior he went on a shooting spree killing countless innocents and stealing several cars while taking police on a high-speed chase from one side of the city to the other.
dog

Hollywood

  • Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #162 on: May 03, 2009, 12:19:49 AM »
Congratulations, you've discovered the human instinct called "choice"

Put into a sentence:

When given the option of customization, I chose to use the default token black guy.

I rather them spend the time and effort used to put all the extra voice acting and boring ass customization into making more missions and shit. You know, stuff that matters.

AdmiralViscen

  • Murdered in the digital realm
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #163 on: May 03, 2009, 12:23:44 AM »
SR2 has more missions than GTA4, lol

How can anyone keep pretending that GTA4 was telling a compelling story after seeing the ending?

GTAIV's story felt the most ridiculous to me when Niko's bemoaning his life and agonizing over killing somebody when just five minutes prior he went on a shooting spree killing countless innocents and stealing several cars while taking police on a high-speed chase from one side of the city to the other.

Or the fact that his brother keeps whining about money when you get like $200k for a single mission hours before that.

Or how you do bitch work for a bunch of different mobsters that have basically no connection to the main story.

Or the ridiculous motorcycle-helicopter climax.

Or pretending I give a shit about that girl who I dated twice that had no purpose other than to die at the end

Great Rumbler

  • Dab on the sinners
  • Global Moderator
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #164 on: May 03, 2009, 12:45:22 AM »
SR2 has more missions than GTA4, lol

How can anyone keep pretending that GTA4 was telling a compelling story after seeing the ending?

GTAIV's story felt the most ridiculous to me when Niko's bemoaning his life and agonizing over killing somebody when just five minutes prior he went on a shooting spree killing countless innocents and stealing several cars while taking police on a high-speed chase from one side of the city to the other.

Or the fact that his brother keeps whining about money when you get like $200k for a single mission hours before that.

Or how you do bitch work for a bunch of different mobsters that have basically no connection to the main story.

Or the ridiculous motorcycle-helicopter climax.

Or pretending I give a shit about that girl who I dated twice that had no purpose other than to die at the end

Those too.
dog

WrikaWrek

  • Let your soul glow
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #165 on: May 03, 2009, 09:30:37 AM »
WWE fans....



suck my dick

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #166 on: May 03, 2009, 09:49:24 AM »
They let you turn CJ into a fat bitch and they also told a compelling story

(lol)
fat

cool breeze

  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #167 on: May 03, 2009, 10:21:08 AM »
A rags to riches story as original as an immigrant coming to America thinking life would be different, trying to also find people from his past life who wronged him, and eventually finding that he can't leave the violent life.  I'm totally serious too.  Problem is that the hamfisted way they told that story in GTA4 and missions that had you killing dozens of people because some guy paid you.  Way to ruined any sense of character and make those scenes where they decided to go serious just seem boring and contradictory.

Lost and the Damned was better and the character wasn't dull like Niko was.  Mafia was still way better if you're talking about telling a good story in these games.  It helps that Mafia played really well too.

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member
Re: Grand Theft Backlash: What's with the hate?
« Reply #168 on: May 06, 2009, 01:28:25 PM »
Also Saints Row letting you customise EVERYTHING, even your gang and their signs/colours. And getting rewards from doing missions/side missions.

Who gives a shit?

So i can't make Niko look like a fat bitch, well guess what they are trying to tell a compelling story and characters. Seriously, Saints Row exists, go play that if you want that, but Saints Row is like the WWE to GTAIV's UFC.

Go play that shit, go play crackdown if you want crackdown, etc. I just don't understand people complaining about GTAIV not being like Saints Row or whatever, it's so distinguished mentally-challenged when you think about it.

We're actually complaining about GTA IV being less like previous GTA's than Saints Row manages to be. GTA IV may have worked for you, great, but it stuns me that they managed to make such a gorgeous, complete, realistic world, and then give you very little to do in it beyond normal story missions.

And Himuro's right: I forgot about the save-your-cars garage. Man, is there anything worse in San Andreas than having all those customizing shops and losing your freaking car to damage or a story-load?