Sean Bell detectives acquitted

[AdmiralViscen]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/nyregion/26BELL.html

Justice Arthur J. Cooperman, who delivered the verdict, said many of the prosecution’s witnesses, including Mr. Bell’s friends and the two wounded victims, were simply not believable. “The testimony of those witnesses just didn’t make sense,” he said.

His verdict prompted several supporters of Mr. Bell to storm out of the courtroom, and screams could be heard in the hallway moments later. The three detectives were escorted out of a side doorway. Outside, a crowd gathered behind police barricades, occasionally shouting, amid a veritable sea of police officers.

This is gonna be a big blowup, but I think the verdict was justified.

[Eric P]

NOT EVEN RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT?

*argh*

[AdmiralViscen]

If it was determined that they were logically justified to feel at riskt hen they're not going to be hit with anything.

There were fishy things on both sides and I'm not comfortable at all with what they did, but it seemed to me that there was a lot of room to find their actions justified as it was going on. The judge saw more than either of us, obviously.

[Eric P]

man, i dunno

50 bullets.

i can see both sides to this, but to not hit them with ANYTHING is just mindblowing

[Rman]

NOT EVEN RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT?

*argh*

.

[AdmiralViscen]

man, i dunno

50 bullets.

i can see both sides to this, but to not hit them with ANYTHING is just mindblowing

Same beef I had, but the penal code doesn't include anything about # of bullets.

If the witnesses claiming that they didn't show their badges or yell police turned out to be unreliable, then I can't see how you'd find them guilty. I guess we'll have to wait to hear more.

[Rman]

Cue Al Sharpton. 

[Eric P]

Cue Al Sharpton. 

but two of the three cops were black

the third one however, total eye-talian

[Rman]

I'm aware.  But I think he's going to focus on the verdict.

[Eric P]

that shit's really tragic too

hours before he was going to get married.

that's just god really fucking with you and your kin

[Tauntaun]

Is this about the cop who shot the black guy cause he thought he had a gun?

[Rman]

Is this about the cop who shot the black guy cause he thought he had a gun?

More like cops, Tauntaun.  Three cops where charged.  But, yes, you are correct.  This happened on his wedding day.

[Tauntaun]

Is this about the cop who shot the black guy cause he thought he had a gun?

More like cops, Tauntaun.  Three cops where charged.  But, yes, you are correct.  This happened on his wedding day.

Nay. 

[AdmiralViscen]

Is this about the cop who shot the black guy cause he thought he had a gun?

They opened up when Bell almost hit one with his car trying to flee.

[Phoenix Dark]

Yeah, so they fired off 50 bullets. Bullshit

I'm gonna go march up and down the block

[AdmiralViscen]

It was after that that they saw someone moving for something in the car, that's their explanation for continuing to fire.

The fact is that an attempted assault with a deadly weapon is enough for them to legally administer lethal force. There's no statute for the number of bullets that can be fired once they're justified in using it.

If it could be proven that they didn't announce themselves as police officers that'd be one thing, but apparently that testimony was bullshit. If they didn't announce that they were police, then Bell himself would have been exercising his right to use his car to kill the man pointing a gun at him.


Then there's also the suspected imminent driveby. Legally, police don't even need someone to use deadly force against them to use deadly force themselves if they believe a violent crime is about to occur. Murder, rape, robbery, kidnapping, any of that. If you don't like the statute move to NY and write your legislator.

I felt exactly like you did, but I got shot down when I actually got read the statute in our debate.

[Phoenix Dark]

Shitty defense imo. Getting a pass on all the fucking counts, even the blatant reckless endangerment is beyond bullshit

[GilloD]

I'm with the cops on this one. There's a lot of shady shit in the case, but the long and the short of it is that some scumbag tried to run the cops over. You'd rather one of those guys goes home in a bodybag? When you find the man who wouldn't empty his gun in that situation, lemme know.

[AdmiralViscen]

Shitty defense imo. Getting a pass on all the fucking counts, even the blatant reckless endangerment is beyond bullshit

Then you have to prove depraved indifference to human life.

Or if you're going for the misdemeanor, he's got to be engaged in reckless behavior. Legally using lethal force against someone believed to have a gun who has just tried to run over someone is not reckless behavior.

If the witnesses claiming that the police didn't identify themselves had been credible, they'd probably have been convicted. Obviously there was something wrong there that we aren't privy to just yet.

There are enough questions and justifications here for a rational person to have reasonable doubt. Obviously hearing the actual testimony made it even more obvious to the judge.


I have a problem with police coming up on a guy just cuz some other guy muttered that he had a gun, and that they fired 50 rounds, but neither action is unlawful.

If they announced themselves to bell then his action of moving the car was unlawful. Apparently it couldn't be proven that they didn't announce themselves. I don't see why they wouldn't announce themselves, as they put their own lives at risk when they don't.


I'll be back later, I can retype any part of the statute if you guys want.

[Eric P]

i'm actually swinging in AV's direction on this one having done more reading

but it still really annoys the hell out of me for many reasons.

[AdmiralViscen]

i'm actually swinging in AV's direction on this one having done more reading

but it still really annoys the hell out of me for many reasons.

Believe me, it annoys the hell out of me too.

I was on the anti-cop side of the argument until I got owned and read more.

This is certainly far from a cut-and-dry case, and iirc the judge was never Mr Nice Guy to the detectives. So I'm not understanding the outrage. There's not even the knee-jerk 'white cops vs black victim' excuse.

[GilloD]

(Image removed from quote.)

Classy!

[Ganhyun]

Its a bad situation for everyone. I'm betting even more restrictions are put in place to prevent this kind of thing from happening again.

Also, I predict that said restrictions lead to the death of a police office trying to do his job.

[drozmight]

who the fuck goes to a strip club on their wedding day

[Ganhyun]

who the fuck goes to a strip club on their wedding day

A guy whose friends tok him there as his last hurrah?

I've seen it.

[Eric P]

who the fuck goes to a strip club on their wedding day

bachelor party

[Ganhyun]

who the fuck goes to a strip club on their wedding day

bachelor party

Yes.

A month back, I was at a Strip club and a guy there was getting married the next day. His friends set it up and he got a headjob* and swingset**

*headjob: Girl danced and put many body parts right in his face and actually rubbed her stuff on his head.

**swingset: two girsl tie him in a chair to the pole and wrap legs around him/themselves and gyrate up in down in a seesaw/multiperson swing motion.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

wait, three cops, 50 bullets.  Doesn't that mean that at least one of them reloaded and continued firing?

what the hell?

[AdmiralViscen]

Five cops fired, three were charged.

But I believe that one of them did reload.