GTA4's Idiosyncracy has torn us apart.

[GilloD]

I think the big problem with GTA4 for a lot of people is that they expected it to Grand Theft Row: Crackdown. They expected it to synthesize a lot of sand-box, crime-simulator elements from the last few years. It's tempting to compare GTA to Saint's Row or Crackdown, but in the end it sort of feels like Oranges and Grapefruits- They look sort of like each other, but they're entirely different items.

GTA is just so idiosyncratic. Whether out of pride of idiocy, it refuses to adopt things like arcade car handling and speedy on-foot running. Instead, it seeks only to refine it's own formula. This is GTA with the fat off and the muscle on. At the end of the day, the only game we can compare GTA4 to is other GTA games. In that regard, it's a frank success. I expected shitty car controls, I expected pop-in, I expected wonky shooting. I expected a Grand Theft Auto game and I got it.

I can understand the larger frustrations with the series failure to copy other game's successes, but I think it's really this issue that's given way to a lot of the bitching and moaning here: Why can't it be more like game x? The simple answer is because it isn't game x. Game x will always be the place we go to see further refinements to core gameplay, GTA is the game we go to to capture the series zeitgeist. Didn't GTA3 pop at a time when 3D open-world games were just starting to bloom? Didn't Vice City pop at the time we were starting to cinema carry some real weight in game design? SA came at a time when the formula was starting to see some real refinement and an obsession with RPG-esque character progression was creeping in everywhere.

Now, as games turn towards the "serious" we get a "serious" GTA. It's just a game so caught up in vain self-reflection that it couldn't be anything else. And I think that's what's so frustrating about reading the critcism from other forum members- It's coming from a place that seems unfair and almost irrational to me. I expect GTA and I got it.

[MrAngryFace]

I think its crap, but maybe youre right, maybe this time its just serious crap.

[dark1x]

It retains the flavor of GTA, I agree, but I do feel that all of its mechanics have seen significant improvement.  For instance, I dare you to compare the gunplay of GTAIII to this new game.  GTAIV is incredibly refined in comparison.  Same goes for virtually every other aspect of the game.

Technically speaking, the game has its share of blemishes, but overall, I do believe it to be one of the finest looking open world action games.  Crackdown runs smoother and features superior image quality, yet it fails to make use of any so-called "next-gen" features that GTA has added into the mix (dynamic shadows for all objects, high dynamic range lighting, advanced physics systems, etc).  Saints Row was partially there, but it was still less appealing visually and actually ran at a lower framerate overall (much lower).

I've always enjoyed the GTA games, but they've always been lacking in certain areas that have left me unsatisfied.  GTAIV is the first game in the series that actually FEELS great during gameplay.

[AdmiralViscen]

I'm enjoying it, but for different reasons than the other games.

If you don't like the new reasons to enjoy the game, it'll be a problem. Justified.

I don't agree that it's because of CD and SR - Other GTAs had faster running, simpler animation, less cinematic camera, and arcadey driving. The game changed. But that was already happening gradually through the PS2 series.


I don't think the shooting is wonky at all, it's perfect.

[duckman2000]

Technically speaking, the game has its share of blemishes, but overall, I do believe it to be one of the finest looking open world action games.  Crackdown runs smoother and features superior image quality, yet it fails to make use of any so-called "next-gen" features that GTA has added into the mix (dynamic shadows for all objects, high dynamic range lighting, advanced physics systems, etc).  Saints Row was partially there, but it was still less appealing visually and actually ran at a lower framerate overall (much lower).

I still think that, looking at this and the upcoming Prototype, that a stylized approach similar to that of Crackdown would have been preferable. Given the choice between a crap looking attempt at a detailed and realistic texture and a stylized but generally faultless one, I'll pick the latter every time. Same thing goes for the shadows; shadow aliasing is the bane of this generation, and it makes me wish developers would just shitcan attempts that lead to half-assed results. Do it right, or don't bother, save the implementation for when its actually refined enough to pass inspection.

[dark1x]

dark1x, are you dark10x?

Yeah.

I still think that, looking at this and the upcoming Prototype, that a stylized approach similar to that of Crackdown would have been preferable. Given the choice between a crap looking attempt at a detailed and realistic texture and a stylized but generally faultless one, I'll pick the latter every time. Same thing goes for the shadows; shadow aliasing is the bane of this generation, and it makes me wish developers would just shitcan attempts that lead to half-assed results. Do it right, or don't bother, save the implementation for when its actually refined enough to pass inspection.

I can understand what you are saying, but that is of course a matter of opinion.  I really appreciate what GTAIV is doing and feel that it has resulted in a far more immersive environment.  Crackdown never felt right to me.  I think the realtime shadows and lighting really add a lot of depth to the environment.  Just imagine one of those scenes beneath the train overpass and remove all of the shadows and HDR.  The entire scene would end up looking flat.

Of course, I think both styles have their place and look great in their respective games (I simply prefer the focus on dynamic lighting and the like)...




Still, when viewed from a typical gameplay perspective, the lighting GTAIV gives it a lot of extra depth...

[Eel O'Brian]

i actually like the story okay, and i like how the main character is just bewildered by everything, he's a likeable guy

i expected to rolleyes at the dick jokes and the half-assed social commentary, so no real probs there

i don't care for the art style and think the game is ugly, but that's just personal opinion

but every preview i read, every single one, commented on how the driving was so much better - now, i had only played a couple of hours of gta3 and gta: vc, and i was okay with the driving in those even though it wasn't the best

but to me, at least, the driving controls in gtaiv aren't fun at all

now i read on messboards where everyone's excuse for that is a workaround by taking cabs on missions instead

that sort of goes against the grain of a title called grand theft auto, and taking a taxi should be a neat option instead of a way of avoiding broken gameplay

i want to enjoy driving around town, i want to enjoy cop chases and drive-bys and such, but i can't because to me driving is a frustrating chore that appears to be busted down to the bone

it's such a central aspect of the game that it overshadows the rest of the game for me

thankfully, when online in free mode you don't have to give a shit about how the car handles

[hyp]

the driving is actually good if you drive like a grandma in the game.   

[duckman2000]

Agency Tower 

God damn it, I can't afford another 360 right now.  PC port, Microsoft!

[MrAngryFace]

Crackdown rocks, the only thing wrong with it is the lack of PUNCH

[dark1x]

dark1x, are you dark10x?

Yeah.

Welcome to the Bore !

I've actually been around here for a while, but don't post as often simply because the threads move rather slowly.  GAF is a bit crazy these days, true, but it's insanely fast paced.  Considering that I'm generally only posting when I'm stuck behind a desk (usually multitasking between work stuff and posting), I like the fast pace.  

[MrAngryFace]

We're moving faster these days. Avg members per day has made a leap the past month.

[BamYouHaveAids]

i don't own it(360 out for repairs), but now that i have played it at a friend's house; i doubt i ever will. The main reason i enjoyed the past GTA games is because of the way the cars handled, it's the reason i couldn't get into SR or driv3r--after playing GTA they felt slow and inferior. i never thought the car handling in the previous games was shitty, i would actually say they were great for GTA's specific blend of gameplay.

there was no reason to change them and it pretty much killed my enjoyment of the game, that, and the new horrible car camera angles. normally, after i unlocked all the areas i would pretty much stop doing missions entirely and just goof, around raise my wanted level, and try to outrun the cops in a high speed chase, but now that you have to pretty much come to a halt to take a turn that aspet is pretty much ruined along with the game. shooting, atmosphere, and hand to hand combat are all secondary to car handling in a game that revolves around driving cars.

[demi]

BU BU BU BU YOU GUYS ARE STUPID THE DRIVING IS GOOD U HAVE TO GET USED TO IT LOLZ </kafka & bloodwake>

[hyp]

crackdown driving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. GTA4 driving

[MrAngryFace]

I love the ol 'if you dont like the game you just arent good at it' argument.

[demi]

GTA4: The Driving is FUN!*
















* You just have to get used to it


* distinguished mentally-challenged fellow

[Powerslave]

GAF is so fucking sensitive smfh

[duckman2000]

I can understand what you are saying, but that is of course a matter of opinion.  I really appreciate what GTAIV is doing and feel that it has resulted in a far more immersive environment.  Crackdown never felt right to me.  I think the realtime shadows and lighting really add a lot of depth to the environment.  Just imagine one of those scenes beneath the train overpass and remove all of the shadows and HDR.  The entire scene would end up looking flat.

Something in the middle, now that would be hot. Something like this, but applied to a "sandbox" format.

[Powerslave]

holy shit at that picture

[duckman2000]

holy shit at that picture

That's art for 99.9%.

Yeah, I think so. The gameplay shots aren't far off from that though.

[Powerslave]

holy shit at that picture

That's art for 99.9%.

but imagine a GTA like that without the false promises and with full explorability and destructionable environments.


Maybe in GTA 10 :'(

[MrAngryFace]

more like Saints Row 3, amirite

[Powerslave]

uarrite

[dark1x]

Mirror's Edge looks fantastic, but they still haven't shown completely honest gameplay shots and we do not know if you can actually explore the city.

[duckman2000]

Mirror's Edge looks fantastic, but they still haven't shown completely honest gameplay shots and we do not know if you can actually explore the city.

I know, just saying, the presentation is quite attractive, and seems to rather nicely combine a minimalist approach with newfangled visual wizardry to much visual win. Not that this style would work very with the GTA theme, but nice things can be achieved without grunge and clutter. This discussion may fit better in a thread about games from Epic.