Year of PS3 stalls again - GTAIV on 360 selling 2:1 over PS3

[pilonv1]

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10281&Itemid=2

Microsoft tells Next-Gen that the Xbox 360 version of Grand Theft Auto IV is outselling the PlayStation 3 version by a wide margin in the US.
"What we've heard anecdotally from our retail partners is that the Xbox 360 version of the game is outselling the PS3 version by a margin of two-to-one," said Aaron Greenberg, director of product management for Xbox 360 and Xbox Live during an interview Thursday.

"That mirrors what we saw with pre-orders, but it continues to hold true at retail, at least for the first couple of days. It's a great sign."

Greenberg said that many gamers are "graduating" from the last generation of consoles to this generation via Xbox 360 and GTA IV.

In day-one sales in the UK, the Xbox 360 version of GTA IV also outsold the PS3 version: 335,000 versus 274,000, respectively, according to Chart Track.

One of the big questions hovering around the release of GTA IV is just how much of an impact the game will have on sales of Xbox 360 and PS3.

SCEA released a statement Thursday saying that GTA IV drove a boost in PS3 sales on the game's launch day, although the company has yet to release hard figures.

Sony with the pre emptive damage control for when it's revealed 360 GTA sales destroyed it.

[duckman2000]

It'll be a cold day in the hell the day I take anything said by that arch-douche at face value. Not that I doubt that the 360 version will outsell the PS3 version, but Greenberg is a rotten cod.

[Bildi]

Sony will certainly have the tougher job turning GTA4 into positive PR.

MS's PR people might as well take a vacation.

[Cormacaroni]

ring ring Square Enix, this is Harsh Reality speaking, we'd like a word with you about your platform choices....

[FancyFeast]

ring ring Square Enix, this is Harsh Reality speaking, we'd like a word with you about your platform choices....

 

[The Fake Shemp]

I can vouch for the anecdotal evidence.

Pretty much all GameStop stores in my region have been sold out of the Xbox 360 copy since YESTERDAY.  A few have a had literally a handful for reservations by the close of business today.  It's been a huge allocation issue, because we barely had enough to supply reservation orders (theirs are guaranteed for 48 hours) and walk-up orders.  Nobody has run out of PS3 copies.

[Grecco]

Should be higher for the X360 actually. Selling double on a console with double consoles sold aint that impressive.

[AdmiralViscen]

SONY FRANCHISE

[The Fake Shemp]

Should be higher for the X360 actually. Selling double on a console with double consoles sold aint that impressive.

... selling higher than 2 to 1?  What?

[gibletsngravy]

How are those deluxe extra expensive editions doin?

[Grecco]

Maybe im stupid, its late and all

But lets say

Xbox has 12m consoles, PS3 has 6.

Technically if every Xbox owner bought one and every PS3 owner bought one then it would outsell it 2 to 1.

Of course its going to. Theres more Xbox. than PS3s out there.

Thats what i was trying to say...

[The Fake Shemp]

How are those deluxe extra expensive editions doin?

Not sold out, but pick up percentage is high.

[Bildi]

Should be higher for the X360 actually. Selling double on a console with double consoles sold aint that impressive.

I know what you're saying, but I also think the PS3 will sell more proportionately partly because PS3 owners have fewer other games to buy.

[Cormacaroni]

Well, i take the points that you guys are making about why this is not surprising. I agree with all of them. Of course, the 360 has a larger install base, and it's one perfectly suited to the GTA franchise. Nothing shocking in the least about the numbers.

But that should just make it all the more obvious to firms with PS3 exclusives that they're losing out on potential revenue big-time. I've heard all the arguments about why exclusives are useful for the software houses but none of them outweigh the bottom-line considerations in my mind.

[MrSingh]

But that should just make it all the more obvious to firms with PS3 exclusives that they're losing out on potential revenue big-time.

It doesn't matter if the exclusives are expensive pieces of turd.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Should be higher for the X360 actually. Selling double on a console with double consoles sold aint that impressive.

I disagree.

For months, all Sonywhores ranted and raved about was how GTA was a Sony franchise.  The fact that it is selling 2x or more the amount on another system is a huge loss of face.  This was the game that was supposed to make 360 sales grind to a total halt and everyone move to PS3.

This is another bullet point shot down hilariously in the Year of PS3.

[calcifer]

2:1 in us
1:1 in europe

show me a link where people said the ps3 version would sell better than the 360 version...

"ring ring Square Enix, this is Harsh Reality speaking, we'd like a word with you about your platform choices...."

if only square made games with guns and killing people! jrpgs bombed on 360 so why should square even consider it?

[The Fake Shemp]

Lost Odyssey sold 200,000 copies in the United States, when sales were down for the entire genre.  It's not a Xbox 360 problem - the genre doesn't sell that well, save for Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest (which is even debatable).  To break the NPD Top 10 without any kind of previous market share is a pretty awesome accomplishment.  It was considered a resounding success within my industry and the add-on sales, such as strategy guides and whatnot, were very healthy with it.

[gibletsngravy]

2:1 in us
1:1 in europe

show me a link where people said the ps3 version would sell better than the 360 version...

"ring ring Square Enix, this is Harsh Reality speaking, we'd like a word with you about your platform choices...."

if only square made games with guns and killing people! jrpgs bombed on 360 so why should square even consider it?

I eagerly await your MGS4 spin.

[calcifer]

2:1 in us
1:1 in europe

show me a link where people said the ps3 version would sell better than the 360 version...

"ring ring Square Enix, this is Harsh Reality speaking, we'd like a word with you about your platform choices...."

if only square made games with guns and killing people! jrpgs bombed on 360 so why should square even consider it?

I eagerly await your MGS4 spin.

what mgs4 spin?

mgs4 will do well but nowhere near gta (so just like last gen)

[MrSingh]

Square should bring their RPGs to Wii/DS. Case closed. Japanimufags don't care about gfx, they just want their panchira fix.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Square is making plenty of RPGs for DS, which are doing well.  But that's not what new numbered FF installments are about.
and the sales potential of third-party RPGs on Wii has not been established.

[Don Flamenco]

Microsoft tells Next-Gen that the Xbox 360 versi

yeah, I'll wait for NPD thx 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

where it will be confirmed that the 360 version really did outsell it 2:1 or damn close.

[close]

[Cormacaroni]

As if this wouldn't have happened.

The install base is much larger.

But isn't the attachment rate much higher on PS3?

...and that's the important thing!

[Mupepe]

As if this wouldn't have happened.

The install base is much larger.

But isn't the attachment rate much higher on PS3?

I can't tell if this is a joke, but the 360 has the highest software attach ratio for any system I think

[Ganhyun]

As if this wouldn't have happened.

The install base is much larger.

But isn't the attachment rate much higher on PS3?

...and that's the important thing!

Gee, I wonder why the attachment rate is higher? Maybe because the PS3 needs more good games for people to play? After all, if most of the stuff on a system is crap, the actual good games do really well.

[Ganhyun]

As if this wouldn't have happened.

The install base is much larger.

But isn't the attachment rate much higher on PS3?

I can't tell if this is a joke, but the 360 has the highest software attach ratio for any system I think

I think he means this specific game.

[Mupepe]

As if this wouldn't have happened.

The install base is much larger.

But isn't the attachment rate much higher on PS3?

I can't tell if this is a joke, but the 360 has the highest software attach ratio for any system I think

I think he means this specific game.

oh ok

I feel bad now and I'll jack him off

[MrAngryFace]

npd or bust; anecdotal evidence ftl

[calcifer]

As if this wouldn't have happened.

The install base is much larger.

But isn't the attachment rate much higher on PS3?

...and that's the important thing!

considering how you fugly xfags go on about it i thought it was

[MrAngryFace]

lol someones all WAH WAH

[MCD]

i wanna fuck a mudkip

[dark1x]

ring ring Square Enix, this is Harsh Reality speaking, we'd like a word with you about your platform choices....

bububububububu the PS3 is the only machine that let's us realise our artistic vision for FF13!

Are you saying you'd prefer they target the Wii or something?  PS3 doesn't make sense as an exclusive platform, true, but neither does XBOX360.

Hell, perhaps the genre in general is fucked right now?  Would you prefer they stick with Nintendo DS then?!  Releasing the game for the Wii or Nintendo DS would require a smaller investment and the installed base would likely garner greater revenue.  That may be the only way to combat dying interest in the RPG genre.

I'd say that selecting the PS3 as an exclusive platform is a huge fucking risk right now.  The system simply isn't performing well in the marketplace.  I think there is something to be said for a massively hyped exclusive game, however.  PS3 exclusive support is akin to dropping a big game on XBOX last generation, I'd say.  I'd imagine that, in the end, retail performance of a game like Final Fantasy would be rather similar regardless of whether it were exclusive to XBOX360 or PS3. 

Honestly, cracking jokes over the PS3 hardware is very 2006.  You have crazed fanboys on all sides, of course, but the majority of people know damn well that companies could replicate anything made for PS3 on 360 (and vice versa).  If you are primarily interested in technical performance, the PC is the platform you should be supporting.  If you are more interested in sales, I believe Nintendo is running circles around the competition (especially over there in Japan).

I agree that multiplatform releases probably make the most sense financially (if you insist on releasing a game on a non-Nintendo platform), but that doesn't mean I actually care for the end results.  Multiplatform releases have come a long way, but I still feel that exclusive games tend to receive more polish in the end.  I'm actually more interested in my enjoyment of a game rather than a companies bottom line (unless of course they perform SO poorly at retail that they can no longer create software).

[Kestastrophe]

ring ring Square Enix, this is Harsh Reality speaking, we'd like a word with you about your platform choices....

bububububububu the PS3 is the only machine that let's us realise our artistic vision for FF13!

Are you saying you'd prefer they target the Wii or something?  PS3 doesn't make sense as an exclusive platform, true, but neither does XBOX360.

Hell, perhaps the genre in general is fucked right now?  Would you prefer they stick with Nintendo DS then?!  Releasing the game for the Wii or Nintendo DS would require a smaller investment and the installed base would likely garner greater revenue.  That may be the only way to combat dying interest in the RPG genre.

I'd say that selecting the PS3 as an exclusive platform is a huge fucking risk right now.  The system simply isn't performing well in the marketplace.  I think there is something to be said for a massively hyped exclusive game, however.  PS3 exclusive support is akin to dropping a big game on XBOX last generation, I'd say.  I'd imagine that, in the end, retail performance of a game like Final Fantasy would be rather similar regardless of whether it were exclusive to XBOX360 or PS3. 

Honestly, cracking jokes over the PS3 hardware is very 2006.  You have crazed fanboys on all sides, of course, but the majority of people know damn well that companies could replicate anything made for PS3 on 360 (and vice versa).  If you are primarily interested in technical performance, the PC is the platform you should be supporting.  If you are more interested in sales, I believe Nintendo is running circles around the competition (especially over there in Japan).

I agree that multiplatform releases probably make the most sense financially (if you insist on releasing a game on a non-Nintendo platform), but that doesn't mean I actually care for the end results.  Multiplatform releases have come a long way, but I still feel that exclusive games tend to receive more polish in the end.  I'm actually more interested in my enjoyment of a game rather than a companies bottom line (unless of course they perform SO poorly at retail that they can no longer create software).

I agree with everything in this post. I will add that the JRPG genre is not completely fucked, as there are some PS2 RPGs that are still garnering decent sales (i.e. Persona 3....and probably Persona 4 later this year).

[MCD]

tl;dr

[Ganhyun]

My opinion is that exclusive games are used to sell consoles. Examples: Final Fantasy and Halo.

Final Fantasy on Sony consoles only since sony has a stake in Square Enix
Halo on Microsoft consoles only since Bungie used to be owned by MS, now because MS has rights to Halo.

Obviously, if the studio making the game is owned/partly owned by your company, the game will probably be exclusive to your console if you make one. Likewise, if you own the rights to a game franchise and make a console, you have every right to make it exclusive to your console.

But I honestly think that other than that, true third party games made by companies not owned by the console makers should make all their games multiplatform. It just makes more sense for them to reach as many people as possible with their games.

This is why the Haze thing is so stupid. I understand why they did it, but its stupid since they've now cut off millions of people who might have bought the game (with the Live hive mentality and attach rate of games, its probably a good sized mistake) and if the game flops its their own fault.

[dark1x]

who said ANYTHING about it being exclusive to X360?!

Heh, sorry about that.  My mistake.  

I certainly wouldn't want to see it released on a Nintendo platform, but that is where it would likely best perform.

Still, from a gamer perspective, I'm not entirely sure why an exclusive release is a negative thing.  I would prefer the game be released exclusively on a single platform (whether 360, PS3 or PC, I don't care as long as it isn't Wii, DS, or PSP) as it would likely lead to a more polished end product.  It's not as if I would actually purchase a copy for two platformers either.  Balking at exclusive releases only seems to make sense if you have a stake in the company (and some people around here do).  What exactly would a multiplatform release do for you personally?  It would only serve to fuel arguments rather than increase enjoyment of the game.  I will always prefer a highly polished product designed around a single piece of hardware, but I understand that no longer makes sense in most cases.

Still, I suppose the fact that they are using Crystal Tools would certainly allow them to more easily create a multiplatform version of the game.  From a business standpoint, I would certainly agree that they are foolish to release the game exclusively for PS3.  The market simply isn't there at this time.  Still, which would be the smarter move from a financial perspective: release the game for PS3 and XBOX360 or release the game for Nintendo Wii?  It would be cheaper to create the game on Wii (though perhaps, at this point, it wouldn't make sense as the assets were built for stronger hardware) and would likely sell very well.  Neither PS3 nor 360 are strong in Japan right now, but the NA market could support them well enough.  Development costs would be higher, however.

So there are really two main questions there...

From a personal perspective, do you really feel that multiplatform games are necessary for your enjoyment?

From a business perspective, what do you believe Square-Enix should do in this situation?

[MCD]

From a personal perspective, do you really feel that exclusive games are necessary for your enjoyment?

yup.

[Ganhyun]

From a personal perspective, do you really feel that multiplatform games are necessary for your enjoyment?

nope - if it's multiplatform or not it doesn't really matter to me at all. I like some things about the PS3 and i like some things about the X360 and each multiplatform game would get judged on it's merit. In this case i'd expect PS3 to be the better version, so - really - it going to X360 has little bearing on my enjoyment of the -game-.

From a business perspective, what do you believe Square-Enix should do in this situation?

PS3, X360, PC version. Barter for time period exclusivity and play MS and Sony off against one another to increase the worth of the contract (current deals etc obviously not factored in - these discussions may have already happened). All this is simplifying the situation of course - we know that Nomura et al have already said "has to be ps3" and that there are prior relationships with Sony, and more recent agreements with MS (and nintendo)

What they will do : Ps3 exclusive.

The reason why they are PS3 exclusive with Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest:

http://www.square-enix.com/jp/ir/e/stock/stockholder/index.html

The Company/person with the third most number of stock in the company: Sony Computer Entertainment

[Ganhyun]

The Company/person with the third most number of stock in the company: Sony Computer Entertainment

so - why does any SE game go to any other platform?

Well, the DS games are because Sony understands that the older games/ remakes, and some of the newer ones targeted at younger kids will do better on DS rather than the psp I guess.

As far as the Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest/ Kingdom Hearts stuff, those are on consoles. I guess Sony is more worried about keeping those off other consoles maybe than worry about a handheld market they knew they had a slim chance to take from Nintendo? Just an opinion.


The only game besides the FFXI online on the Xbox made by Square Enix was Projecy Sylpheed, which most people had never heard of.

[disgruntled_jojo]

2:1 over PS3... /shrug
Given the userbase, PS3 is doing a bit better than I'd have thought.  There's no big surprise here.  If both systems had similar sold through numbers, then this 2:1 ratio would indicate a big defeat for Sony.  As it is, it just indicates a year plus headstart in this console generation for MS.

[Ganhyun]

Well, the DS games are because Sony understands that the older games/ remakes, and some of the newer ones targeted at younger kids will do better on DS rather than the psp I guess.

not as such. I don't mean to be assy about this, but do you think Sony are consulted on every platform choice for an okay/rubberstamp?

do you think they also call the several investment banks that have a much larger combined stake holding to ask them what they think?

The banks just want to make money. Thats all they are concerned about really. And my friend pointed out a good point to me about this as well.

Square is a Japan profit first company. U.S. profits come second. This could also explain why MS gets such a small amount of games from them while Sony and Nintendo get alot. 

But honestly, I truly think that as a company, Square makes games that they think are good. The Console games going to Sony because of the part ownership/close relation ship they have together compared to the lack of relationship with MS.

For handheld games, Nintendo has long dominated that so thus why they release so many games on the gameboy/DS.

But no, I dont think they call each part owner and ask if they should put this game on just this system or not.  But since they have naturally been handheld nintendo and console sony for so long, they stick with it.

But in all honesty, I'm sure that if Sony asked them not to do something, they would listen.

[MrSingh]

And Crytal Tools is

1) Not ready
2) Is shit

[MrAngryFace]

i got the 360 version to stick it to synth 

who knows when ill play it!

[Eel O'Brian]

i got the 360 version to stick it to synth 

who knows when ill play it!

play online with me

we'll thug it up and talk like characters from Heat

[MCD]

you bought gta4 maf?

you have fallen to the enemy.

[pilonv1]

And Crytal Tools is

1) Not ready
2) Is shit

should have used ue3

[MrSingh]

should have used ue3

I won't be surprised if the rest of the company uses UE3, but Nomura and his merry tards insist on using unfinished broken internal cross platform tools/engine on a PS3 exclusive game.

[calcifer]

when not even western developers (except epic) can use ue3 what hope do you think jap devs got?

[Bloodwake]

This isn't surprising. The 360 has a bigger install base.

I'll wait for NPD. I'd rather have some hard numbers, especially where I can see the PS3 system sales against the 360's.

And honestly, I wasn't thinking that the PS3 was going to outsell the 360 when it came to GTAIV, systems or otherwise. Almost all of the GTA commercials I've seen were done by Microsoft specifically for the 360 version of the game. There's much more exposure to consumers that the game is on 360 rather than PS3.

[MCD]

there was ps3 ads only.

the difference between the two sales will probably be like cod4/assassin's creed.

[Don Flamenco]

when not even western developers (except epic) can use ue3 what hope do you think jap devs got?

see: Lost Odyssey. 

Not to say I like the results...fucking UE3.

[muckson]

ring ring Square Enix, this is Harsh Reality speaking, we'd like a word with you about your platform choices....

bububububububu the PS3 is the only machine that let's us realise our artistic vision for FF13!

actually, sony fans don't even agree with that either!
The come back is "fnuknuk- how many disks would it be on? 49?! lol"

no one ever says "This is simply not possible technically on x360/Xenon"

50gig disk - subtract redundant data - would only be 4 or 5 disks tops. FF13 is being made in a cross plat engine - so could/should be done on both platforms. Whether it will be will just depend how much SE like money. I like money, shareholders like money, people who work at companies surely like bonuses.

after playing lost odyssey from top to bottom i don't see how ff13 and even mgs4 couldn't exist as a multi-disk game on the 360.  that game was HUGE.

i think all this shit about the game not fitting on a bluray is intentionally created hype bullshit to spark interest and paranoia.  it's a good way to get 360 owners to doubt the system and buy a ps3, which if you think about it was the intention of making mgs4 sony exclusive.  no one will know until the game comes out and the data is pulled from the disk.

[crimsondynamics]

Stillborn, not stalled. There won't be a "year of the PS3".

The Wii already has this generation in the bag. /prediction

At best, the PS3 will manage to duke it out with the 360 for second place, but even then I have my serious doubts. I think the next NPD will be a good indicator of the future of this generation, because there won't be any other game capable of moving consoles and sales in general the way GTA IV will. (GTA V perhaps?)

@muckson:

The storage space argument is a legitimate one, albeit not likely as influential this generation (nobody who has ever said "that's more than we will ever need" has not regretted saying so; testament to this are my 15 hard drives). MGS4: Sub720p needs 50GB because if I were to design a Spongebob Squarepants game with six hours of HD footage, well, of course I'd need Blu-ray, not because gameplay-wise there is actually enough content to fill up 50GB, but because I just have so much non-interactive filler to add to my game.

[AdmiralViscen]

I don't think PS3 will have much difficulty taking second place this gen.

MGS4 doesn't use CG.

[crimsondynamics]

I don't think PS3 will have much difficulty taking second place this gen.

MGS4 doesn't use CG.

I don't know if the PS3 will take second place or not (it probably will, but not by much IMO), but I think we both agree that the Wii will take top honors in install base.

About MGS4, is it confirmed that the cut-scenes are in-game? I don't know since I haven't played it yet (but I think there are a few that have had hands-on time with the game). In any case, I guess it's similar to GT5: The game itself renders at a far, far poorer quality than the photo mode, which of course isn't interactive (but damn if the rendering isn't impressive).

[duckman2000]

I don't know if the PS3 will take second place or not (it probably will, but not by much IMO), but I think we both agree that the Wii will take top honors in install base.

Different markets, different appeal, though. Sony never could compete with Wii on the terms set by Wii, as that would run counter to Sony's CE business. Nintendo has effectively crafted its own market, as it said it would. Which is pretty awesome in its own right, but I think talking about the situation as if it was somehow an even race, or a match in the same division even, is a bit silly.

[MrAngryFace]

Sony needs more than 1 good game a year. Sony needs GAMES. 360 has games. Math isnt that hard.

Im sure if they take PS3 numbers against competing Bluray players Sony fans will have more to cheer about.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

PS3 will always remain 3rd in the US and 2nd in Japan.  The only question is Europe whether PS3 is 2nd or 3rd overall.

[crimsondynamics]

Different markets, different appeal, though. Sony never could compete with Wii on the terms set by Wii, as that would run counter to Sony's CE business. Nintendo has effectively crafted its own market, as it said it would. Which is pretty awesome in its own right, but I think talking about the situation as if it was somehow an even race, or a match in the same division even, is a bit silly.

What are the Wii's terms though, and what is Sony's CE business? Not to mention despite different markets and different appeals, the Wii still comes out on top in sales, in every single market, and even leads the PS3 in attach rate (last I checked), both the most telling indicators of a console's health?

Anyhow, Nintendo crafting their own market is due to their own business acumen more than anything else - that Sony and Microsoft couldn't play ball with Nintendo isn't Nintendo's problem - far from it.

And it is an even race: the race is to sell consoles (and games), and Nintendo has done so - whether or not it is due to inferior hardware in lieu of a cheaper price point or not is another issue (it's not like this is the first time inferior hardware has won the console war anyhow). Where Nintendo has the price point advantage, both the Xbox 360 and the PS3 have the hardware performance advantage. And if you live where I do (Hong Kong), you would be surprised - no - shocked, to see that the Wii is outselling both the 360 and the PS3, despite the hardware costing more than the "true HD" consoles. That's right: Nintendo has yet to officially launch the Wii here, yet you go to video game malls and you see the Wii outselling both the PS3 (you can still buy the 60GB here, brand new!) and the 360. To wit:

PS3 40GB: 2,680HKD
PS3 80GB: 3,580HKD
360 Arcade: 1,999HKD
360 Value: 2,499HKD
360 20GB: 2,799HKD
360 Elite: 3,599HKD
Wii Japanese: 2,399-2,899HKD
Wii US: 3,299-3,799HKD*

* lack of official launch means prices fluctuate depending on market demand
1USD = 7.78HKD

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether or not one console is more powerful than the other, or that one console is cheaper than the other. What matters (not to us the consumers, but to corporate brass who protect their corporations' bottom lines) is that they make generate enough revenue to make a profit. In that regard, the Wii is performing much better than the other two manufacturers, and I think both Sony and Microsoft wouldn't mind for a second to trade their positions with Nintendo in terms of growth, profit, and perhaps more importantly, marketshare and mindshare.