The Indiana Jones: KOTCS thread of "won't be as good as Speed Racer"

[Bloodwake]

But will it be good?

Will Willco and other bashers on this forum line up and eat a big bunch of crow, or will it be me chomping on some overcooked horrible black bird of death?

Will people finally shut up about Lucas ruining the entire series like he did Star Wars when he neither directed or wrote the screenplay?

It comes out this Thursday, May 22nd. I've listened to most of the score and the quality matches that of the first three films. Harrison Ford still looks like he can kick some ass despite his age, and, for those keeping "Lucas fucked up this movie with CG" score, most of it had no CG.

I'm going to regret making this thread and I'm sure we won't be nearly as lucky in agreeing on this film as we have on Speed Racer, but eh, fuck it.

Discuss.

[TVC15]

I won't be seeing it for a few weeks unless:

1) I could get in free opening night, which I have a like 50/50 chance of doing.
2) Word of mouth is exceptionally good, prompting me to go asap.
3) It bombs and theaters will be empty.

Crowded movie theaters = the suck.

[fistfulofmetal]

I thought we all accepted that it won't be as good as The Mummy 3?
Or do we all so quickly forget?

[Bloodwake]

I thought we all accepted that it won't be as good as The Mummy 3?
Or do we all so quickly forget?
(Image removed from quote.)

I love this forum joke.

I really do.

But seriously, no. Fuck no. If Mummy 3 is better than Indy IV, the apocalypse will happen. Even the fucking trailer had HORRID dialogue. Fuck that shit. That movie needs to be exorcised. It's going to be Satanically bad.

[Eric P]

i'm going to try to avoid this for a bit because of the crowded movie theater thing

[Human Snorenado]

It's probably not gonna be good, but come on now.  I've taken more entertaining craps than Speed Racer.

[AdmiralViscen]

Every preview and review says it's shit

73% RT?

[EvilBoris]

Every preview and review says it's shit

It's so sad cause I rewatched The Indy Trilogy back-to-back this month in preparation for IJ4 and I think I won't even see it in the end.

I don't want to spoil the series as I know it.

  that's pushing it....
culling it all down from what i've read the thrills and style is cracked at with the same professionalism, and Spielberg can still handle the set pieces a cut above the usual.
 too many sensitive memories for the trilogy here...  'Kingdom' should age with the last two and once all the tension of it's cinema release have faded away ..... it should be just bloody satisfying to sit back to.  
 
 Temple of Doom should be an easy hurdle at least.

[Tauntaun]

I should be going Thursday so I'll holler at ya'll on Friday to give you the what what in the butt.

[youtube=425,350]3Jr6LVAnSgM[/youtube]

[Bloodwake]

Every preview and review says it's shit

It's so sad cause I rewatched The Indy Trilogy back-to-back this month in preparation for IJ4 and I think I won't even see it in the end.

I don't want to spoil the series as I know it.

  that's pushing it....
culling it all down from what i've read the thrills and style is cracked at with the same professionalism, and Spielberg can still handle the set pieces a cut above the usual.
 too many sensitive memories for the trilogy here...  'Kingdom' should age with the last two and once all the tension of it's cinema release have faded away ..... it should be just bloody satisfying to sit back to. 
 
 Temple of Doom should be an easy hurdle at least.

Pretty much. Took the words right out of my mouth.

And not EVERY review is negative, it's getting a fresh rating at RT right now.

PS: If anyone gives a shit about Ebert, he gave it three and a half stars.

[The Fake Shemp]

I really don't trust reviews or Internet opinions when it comes to stuff like this.  I learned my lesson from Star Wars.  I remember the hype train on Revenge of the Sith being pretty long - it had massive, initial critical and audience raves.  People will convince themselves that it's great or they'll be so deluded that they'll take a rough fascimile over an original adventure.  This enterprise looks soulless and unnecessary, and really haven't seen or read anything that doesn't pretty much jive with that. 

The kiss of death occured when Harry Knowles started to wax poetic about his life and how he found his inner child after seeing Indiana Jones.  He was literally shaking and crying - and not just from the diabetes!  That kind of geek reaction from his kind disturbs me, because it shows he's not objective whatsoever.  There are hints of dissastisfaction from his camp, but McWeeny is not above blowing folks for Hollywood brownie points (his Joel Silver interview read like, "Please, hire me!  You're awesome!") and no one there is to be trusted!  I see Revenge of the Sith all over again.

Something fans will delude themselves into thinking is awesome and start putting into self-depreciating context to gain legitimacy ("Hey, it's only like second or third best, but it's still great!").

I will see this in theaters on three conditions:

a) I'm bored and nobody is there - geek audiences are the worst
b) People whose opinions I trust tell me it's worth my time
c) Spielberg offers to blow me

Otherwise, this is a wait 'till Blu-Ray scenario.  I'm not that interested and I'd rather just watch Raiders or Last Crusade.  Or Temple of Doom.

[TVC15]

It's probably not gonna be good, but come on now.  I've taken more entertaining craps than Speed Racer.

You didn't even see Speed Racer.  You are less qualified to speak on it than Amir0x is.

[The Fake Shemp]

If Kingdom of the Crystal Skull turns out to be a more entertaining film than Speed Racer, then it won't be able to touch its creativity.

[Bloodwake]

If Kingdom of the Crystal Skull turns out to be a more entertaining film than Speed Racer, then it won't be able to touch its creativity.

It won't. But it will still be good.

[TVC15]

If Kingdom of the Crystal Skull turns out to be a more entertaining film than Speed Racer, then it won't be able to touch its creativity.

I've noticed that even the good reviews seem kind of like they're, I dunno, holding back on the movie?  Like giving it a good review is compulsory or something.  I'm curious to see what word of mouth on this is like.  Also, Temple of Doom has a higher RT score, lol.

[demi]

Will wait for the game.

[The Fake Shemp]

All the reviews have read like, "... It has Indiana Jones, so it's good!  I mean, not as good as the original films and it has a lot of problems and we can nitpick it to death - but, hey! - it's Indiana Jones!  Four stars!"

[Tauntaun]

All the reviews have read like, "... It has Indiana Jones, so it's good!  I mean, not as good as the original films and it has a lot of problems and we can nitpick it to death - but, hey! - it's Indiana Jones!  Four stars!"

 

[Bloodwake]

I don't know, any negative feedback from critics isn't really lowering my expectations after the great Speed Racer debacle of 2008.

[GilloD]

All the reviews have read like, "... It has Indiana Jones, so it's good!  I mean, not as good as the original films and it has a lot of problems and we can nitpick it to death - but, hey! - it's Indiana Jones!  Four stars!"

That's what the Star Ledger review was. Exactly.

[Solo]

Its gonna suck. Unless callbacks to the old movies and incessant fanservice is what youre looking for, in which case, it will rock.

I myself dont give two shits either way, in all honesty. I loves me some Raiders, but I dont hold the series in especially high esteem anyways.

[The Fake Shemp]

I watched Temple of Doom for the first time since I was like six-years-old today.  I remember it as being scary and awesome and like, the best Indiana Jones movie ever.  But, it's not.  I watched the entire trilogy today and it feels so far removed from the other two installments that it belongs in a separate series altogether.

Raiders still has charm and is great, and The Last Crusade feels so polished and enjoyable.

The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull looks unnecessary.  And I hate reviews where critics preface their comments with something like, "Hey, we can say the same negative things we'd say about any other mediocre movie, but it's important to remember that this is Indiana Jones!"

[FlameOfCallandor]

I liked alot of the dialogue in Temple of doom. Especially between indy and the chick.

[brandonh83]

nevermind. I thought I did, but I really don't have the words for some of the shit I'm reading in this thread 

[The Fake Shemp]

It's not uncommon for blockbusters like these to be screened relatively early, especially the Speilberg and Lucas variety.  The prequels had reviews up like, weeks in advance.

[Bloodwake]

nevermind. I thought I did, but I really don't have the words for some of the shit I'm reading in this thread 

Yeah, I don't even know why I bothered.

[Solo]

So, you opening night crazies, how bad is it? Phantom Menace bad, or Attack of the Clones bad?

[Phoenix Dark]

It's out in 30 minutes here. My buddy is standing in line but I've got a test tomorrow. I'll see it after the test

[The Fake Shemp]

Live Free or Die Hard was a pretty horrible Die Hard movie.

[muckhole]

I never really expected Indy 4 to be anything more than a quaint excuse to see the character on the big screen one last time. There's just too much nostalgia they'll have to cover to break any kind of new ground.

[TVC15]

I never really expected Indy 4 to be anything more than a quaint excuse to see the character on the big screen one last time.

I wish I could accept that, but we've heard stories about scripts being rewritten, rejected, kicked around, false starts, et cetera for more than a decade, which lead me to believe that they would not do a fourth movie unless they had another banger.  Instead we get one of Lucas's warmed over shitty ideas. 

[BlueTsunami]

Omg, just came back from it

Cheebs and whoever played up this movie better get ready to get trolled for the rest of their life.

Its a good action movie but there are so many ridiculous sequences that I started to get turned off. Then theres the ending, omfg TVC, Wilco and Patel, you HAVE to watch this movie just for the ending

[CajoleJuice]

Its a good action movie but there are so many ridiculous sequences that I started to get turned off.

Man, this series really is the same as the Die Hard series. (I just wrote a blog post about that)

[BlueTsunami]

Its a good action movie but there are so many ridiculous sequences that I started to get turned off.

Man, this series really is the same as the Die Hard series. (I just wrote a blog post about that)

Thats actually not a bad comparison. This movie LITERALLY IS the Die Hard 4 to Indiana Jones

Instead of trying to keep it grounded in reality, the action sequences are so over the top that its silly

[CajoleJuice]

Its a good action movie but there are so many ridiculous sequences that I started to get turned off.

Man, this series really is the same as the Die Hard series. (I just wrote a blog post about that)

Thats actually not a bad comparison. This movie LITERALLY IS the Die Hard 4 to Indiana Jones

Instead of trying to keep it grounded in reality, the action sequences are so over the top that its silly

http://thesomewhatmanlynerd.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/indiana-jones-and-die-hard-are-basically-the-same-series/

[BlueTsunami]

Its a good action movie but there are so many ridiculous sequences that I started to get turned off.

Man, this series really is the same as the Die Hard series. (I just wrote a blog post about that)

Thats actually not a bad comparison. This movie LITERALLY IS the Die Hard 4 to Indiana Jones

Instead of trying to keep it grounded in reality, the action sequences are so over the top that its silly

http://thesomewhatmanlynerd.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/indiana-jones-and-die-hard-are-basically-the-same-series/

Its scary that he states he hasn't watched the movie yet and yet hes spot on with the Indy 4 and Die Hard 4 comparisons.

[CajoleJuice]

He = me

[BlueTsunami]

He = me

Oh shit Cajole!



You am prophet, nice writeup btw!

[CajoleJuice]

Thanks.  Once in a while, I get some good ideas for posts.

I'm actually watching Raiders right now.

[BlueTsunami]

Wait till you see the Monkey Shia sequence. You will literally lol in disbelief. I predict lots of GIFs coming from this

[CajoleJuice]

Does he say "no" a lot?

[BlueTsunami]

Didn't detect it in this movie, I just think it was an obnoxious quirk that came out in Transformers. In all honestly, Shia wasn't that bad in this movie.

[The Fake Shemp]

I kind of want to avoid this film now.  Early word out of some of my friends is that this is a huge disappointment of a film, especially when stacked against the other Indy flicks.  Everyone has told me that the ending is hysterical, but won't tell me what it is.  I can only imagine that they open up the Roswell box and E.T. pops out, says "Fuck you, Doctor Jones!" and flies away in a spaceship leaving a bag of Reeses on the ground.

[BlueTsunami]

I don't want to give away the ending either but you HAVE to see it Willco. Its so not Indiana Jones that your like O_O the whole time.

[The Fake Shemp]

Why Lucaspielberg, why?

[CajoleJuice]

Spielberg really can't end shit right anymore, can he?

[Joe Molotov]

It's currently 1% above Revenge of the Sith at RT. I guess that'll do.

[The Fake Shemp]

Revenge of the Sith was awful.

I think whether or not you're going to be able to digest this installment will be based on the core belief that aliens do or do not belong in the Indiana Jones universe.  I always thought the series lent itself well to religion and mysticism, but not so much science-fiction elements... which this is apparently heavy in.

[BlueTsunami]

Solo stated on GAF that Spielberg and someone else had agreed on a screenplay but Lucas didn't like it? I think this has Lucasism all over it.

[The Fake Shemp]

Everyone liked the draft that Frank Darabont (The Shawshank Redemption, The Green Mile, The Mist) turned in except Lucas.  Lucas also refused to agree to do another Indy flick unless all three (Spielberg, Ford and Lucas) agreed on his idea (crystal skulls! aliens! new father/son dynamic!).

Ford and Spielberg weren't too keen on the science fiction stuff, but Lucas was adamant, especially if they were transplanting the series to the '50s.  Eventually, Lucas kind of wore Spielberg and Ford down.

[BlueTsunami]

Figures. The whole Father/Son dynamic feels forced too. They should have kept it as it is and not inject that part of the story. Theres also something at the end that makes you want to punch Spielberg/Lucas in the face (aside from the big one). Its like their taunting us (in a bad way), you'll see.

[TakingBackSunday]

Eh, I wasn't bugged as much as you were.  I think what needs to be said outright:  This is not Last Crusade.  But it's not too much lower than that.  It's definitely better by Temple of Doom, and just a little bit worse than Crusade.

Also, it's extremely obvious where Speilberg had some influence and where Lucas touched the film, unfortunately.  The whole Monkey scene was, omg, so so so bad.  It was like Star Wars prequels all over again.

But when you actually get into the nitty gritty story, the earlier action sequences, the score, and most of the dialogue, it's classic Indiana Jones.  It was a compelling story with the standard Indy humor unfortunately bogged down a bit by Lucas' fetish with trying to broaden appeal by putting pointless shit in the movie.

7.5/10

Willco, if you liked Transformers, I don't see how you can't like this film.  It's so so so much better than that.

[bachikarn]

Everyone liked the draft that Frank Darabont (The Shawshank Redemption, The Green Mile, The Mist) turned in except Lucas.  Lucas also refused to agree to do another Indy flick unless all three (Spielberg, Ford and Lucas) agreed on his idea (crystal skulls! aliens! new father/son dynamic!).

Ford and Spielberg weren't too keen on the science fiction stuff, but Lucas was adamant, especially if they were transplanting the series to the '50s.  Eventually, Lucas kind of wore Spielberg and Ford down.

Fucking Lucas. Yeah, I logged on to my facebook this morning and like four of my friend's status was about how terrible Indy 4 was 

[Phoenix Dark]

Everyone liked the draft that Frank Darabont (The Shawshank Redemption, The Green Mile, The Mist) turned in except Lucas.  Lucas also refused to agree to do another Indy flick unless all three (Spielberg, Ford and Lucas) agreed on his idea (crystal skulls! aliens! new father/son dynamic!).

Ford and Spielberg weren't too keen on the science fiction stuff, but Lucas was adamant, especially if they were transplanting the series to the '50s.  Eventually, Lucas kind of wore Spielberg and Ford down.

I doubt anyone had to force Spielberg to overdo a father/son dynamic in a film. Also according to Cheebs there are no aliens in the film, although that 50s UFO mystery atmosphere is present. I like Spielberg but I had hoped that after seeing what Lucas did to Star Wars he would refuse to do another Indy unless he got the perfect idea. Not even Manabyte would argue this was the perfect idea.

From BlueTsunami and even Cajole's prophetic vision on his wonderfully insightful blog it's clear they figured the best way to do this film was to make everything bigger, louder, and faster in order to hide what was missing: an actual Indiana Jones movie. The Die Hard analogy sounds perfect to me. Die Harder is a Die Hard film but it seems more like a group of producers fretting over "what the public wants to see" and not "how do you make a worthy sequel to such a great movie." So we got bigger explosions, even more ridiculous action scenes, etc. Indy looks exactly the same

And while I haven't heard Spielberg say anything about future Indy films, Lucas has been quoted a couple times talking about handing the franchise over to Shia. Disgusting

[radioheadrule83]

Everyone liked the draft that Frank Darabont (The Shawshank Redemption, The Green Mile, The Mist) turned in except Lucas.  Lucas also refused to agree to do another Indy flick unless all three (Spielberg, Ford and Lucas) agreed on his idea (crystal skulls! aliens! new father/son dynamic!).

Ford and Spielberg weren't too keen on the science fiction stuff, but Lucas was adamant, especially if they were transplanting the series to the '50s.  Eventually, Lucas kind of wore Spielberg and Ford down.

I doubt anyone had to force Spielberg to overdo a father/son dynamic in a film. Also according to Cheebs there are no aliens in the film, although that 50s UFO mystery atmosphere is present. I like Spielberg but I had hoped that after seeing what Lucas did to Star Wars he would refuse to do another Indy unless he got the perfect idea. Not even Manabyte would argue this was the perfect idea.

There most definitely are!

This post from Manabyte perfectly explains why the movie is so crazy imo:

Like Doom and Crusade reused rejected Raiders scenes (the giant gong at the beginning of Doom and the mine cart were both from Raiders originally), Crystal Skull recycles something from EVERY Indy 4 script that came before it.

Every single Indy 4 script used the Crystal Skull Mcguffin, even your beloved Darabont one.

The jungle chase scene is from Chris Colombus' Indiana Jones and the Curse of the Monkey God.

The entire Doomtown sequence and the Alien element is from Jeb Stuart's Indiana Jones and the Saucer Men from Mars.

The

spoiler (click to show/hide)

wedding

[close]

and most of the Indy/Mutt/Marion stuff is from Darabont's. In his,

spoiler (click to show/hide)

the wedding was the very first scene in the movie with Henry Sr., Willie Scott, Short Round, Brody, and Sallah among the guests

[close]

. If people were rolling their eyes at the nods to previous movies in Crystal Skull, that probably would've made them walk out.

Its not like it surprises you with any of the crazy shit the movie pulls though... the tone is set right from the beginning. At the very very beginning of the movie there's attempted mind reading, floating gun powder and an escape from a Nuclear explosion that is just beyond silly. If you thought McClane on the fighter jet was over the top and funny, well this movie has it beat at a number of moments.

I still enjoyed it, but really can't understand how anyone puts it ahead of any of the prior trilogy. I still don't get the hate for Temple of Doom... Short Round + Mula Ram + Indy cheesily saving a horde of children from a life of slavery = genius to me 

[Phoenix Dark]

Cheebs timed exclusive review:

"Need to think more before I give it a number. But as I posted in the topic:


A bit too early to give my full thoughts but I'd say:

Raiders >>> Last Crusade > Crystal Skull >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Temple of Doom

Is it a Spielberg masterpiece like Close Encounters, Jaws or Raiders? No but it's a lot of fun, cant wait for the blu-ray. A worthy entry to the franchise and I am up for part 5 if they decide to do it."

[Solo]

The more this gets blasted/lolz-ed at by people who's opinions I value, the more I cant wait to see it. Sounds like a hilariously epic trainwreck.

[radioheadrule83]

As someone else has already said to you (I think) - I can't wait to read your reaction.

Last night it was though I was still in shock. Today, I'm kind of over it, but still digesting it.

It has some good moments. The nuke is good for all the wrong reasons. Even though I knew it was bad, stupid, ridiculous - I had a big shit eating grin on my face as I realised it was about to happen. The brief shower scene afterwards was intentionally humourous. Shia's introduction ends in a fight at a diner - its a pretty good introduction. The ensuing bike chase that ends in the school library is fun. They get all the jibes about Harrison being old over with pretty quickly. They handle Indiana himself and his relationships with some semblence of tact... it really is nice seeing him in action again. I did have fun.

Its weaknesses are that it feels rushed and it feels silly. They filmed this thing in 10 months or something, and when they get to Area 51 you can tell. It looks and sounds like it was recorded on a studio lot / soundstage and redubbed. It leaps into the unbelievable magical stuff right from the very beginning. The menace and mystery don't develop like they do in the prior trilogy, its just right in your face straight away. Karen Allen seems a bit off as Marion. The barrage of action that takes place in the Amazon towards the end of the movie is the kind of free-styling action that the Droid foundry represented in Star Wars Episode II... oh yes. Its that stupid. Its like it came from the stream of consciousness of a 10 year old boy. Its like Lucas, Spielberg and their script writers sat down and excitedly said "Yeah, a-a-a-a-and then we can do this! and that! and this!" all day. Kids will love those moments for sure, but theres no subtlety, it doesn't even pretend to try to be as grounded and (relatively, I stress relatively) reserved as the old movies. They literally just let it go insane.

It all culminates in the ending... which, while a massive departure from the religious/divine themed endings of the prior movies, is the least of its crimes. The nuclear blast. I can't stop thinking about it. 

[The Fake Shemp]

Willco, if you liked Transformers, I don't see how you can't like this film.  It's so so so much better than that.

That's like comparing apples to oranges - that makes no sense.  Transformers was a pretty mediocre movie, but the elements I wanted to see were enjoyable.  I went into Transformers expecting to see giant robots blow themselves up and really nothing more.  I have no problem seeing genre films for their technical merits or because I have a boner for something (see: Cloverfield). Indiana Jones is an established universe with established rules and established character.  It has to be compared against that... not Transformers.

[Phoenix Dark]

Indiana Jones is an established universe with established rules and established character.  It has to be compared against that... not Transformers.

explain this to transformers fanboys