Are you with us?!?! OR R U BIG OIL LUVR?

[MrAngryFace]

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/open_university/archive/2008/05/05/hillary-s-either-or.aspx

It is difficult to know what Hillary is up to here, so it is worth traveling down every interpretive route. Let's suppose she's serious. She really thinks the gas-tax holiday is a good idea and thinks those who don't support it really are supporting "big oil." She thinks this is an issue of such importance that one must require each member of Congress to take a stand. On this serious view, Hillary is someone who will not listen to the overwhelming mass of evidence when it points against her own judgment. Indeed, she seems to form her judgment independent of anything the rest of the world would consider evidence. And rather than cutting others some slack because they are trying to weigh the evidence, she sincerely categorizes them as "against us," "against you," "for big oil."  There is no room in this division for a person of integrity and good judgment who disagrees with her--and, on this hypothesis, she sincerely believes that. It is hard to see how anyone could think that a person who makes up her mind this way has the judgment to be a good president. So, let's go down the opposite road and assume she's not serious. Then we have someone who is cynically willing to play to her audience's fears, and to exploit the innate human tendency to divide the world into us and them. And she is willing to entangle her colleagues in Congress in a loyalty parade, all the while knowing that the issue is fake. She has made up the rules of who is in and out: an exhaustive partition of good guys and bad guys, drawn along the fault lines of the publicly shared anxiety of the moment. Remind you of anyone? 

[Eric P]

Remind you of anyone? 

Skeletor?

[Mandark]

I saw this and thought "She's still making a big deal out of the gas tax holiday?"

Then I saw that the linked post is TWO YEARS WEEKS OLD.  C'mon!

[Van Cruncheon]

5/5/2008 is two years old?

[Mandark]

I'm sick and hopped up on meds, as far as any of you know.

[Van Cruncheon]

the article isn't about the gas tax holiday outside of ostensibility; it's about how hilary is pulling a bush by forcing folks to pick sides OR is exploiting the human tendency to pick sides. it's a good analysis from the normally wishy-washy new republic.

[Trent Dole]

Hillary

[MrAngryFace]

SORRY DRUGGY MANDARK!

[Mandark]

Yeah, it's very reminiscent of all the "Stupid or Evil?" question that comes up almost every time Bush announces a policy.  The third possibility, about how campaigning is a kabuki theatre where it's not polite to bring up reality, is a really good point too.

I don't agree with this as an example of destructive us-vs-them politics though.

Railing against a rich elite just isn't the same as dividing the population based on race or religion or culture.  It doesn't elicit the same overwhelming, visceral emotions and it doesn't direct fear and anger towards vulnerable groups.

You rant about the fat cats on Wall Street, and maybe the top marginal rate goes up.  You rant about scary bearded brown people and they get bombs dropped on them.  I guess this would be different if it were France in 1789, but it's not.

[Akala]

Since we're painting in black and white, it is a pretty common theory that a 'gas tax holiday' would lose the country millions in lost tax revenue, while not adversely affecting 'big oil.' Since oil output would not increase, the increased demand could bring prices right back to where they were before...at least until the tax is reapplied, and we end up paying over five dollars a gallon.

Supporting the gas holiday is UNAMERICAN. 

[Mandark]

Pretty much.

The ironic thing is that the gas tax holiday really is a clear litmus test of whether you're full of shit, only in the opposite way that Hillary means.

[Akala]

Railing against a rich elite just isn't the same as dividing the population based on race or religion or culture.  It doesn't elicit the same overwhelming, visceral emotions and it doesn't direct fear and anger towards vulnerable groups.

Rich people rallying against the rich usually fail to generate much outrage.

[MrAngryFace]

Yeah, it's very reminiscent of all the "Stupid or Evil?" question that comes up almost every time Bush announces a policy.  The third possibility, about how campaigning is a kabuki theatre where it's not polite to bring up reality, is a really good point too.

I don't agree with this as an example of destructive us-vs-them politics though.

Railing against a rich elite just isn't the same as dividing the population based on race or religion or culture.  It doesn't elicit the same overwhelming, visceral emotions and it doesn't direct fear and anger towards vulnerable groups.

You rant about the fat cats on Wall Street, and maybe the top marginal rate goes up.  You rant about scary bearded brown people and they get bombs dropped on them.  I guess this would be different if it were France in 1789, but it's not.

I think it could be argued that it is a glimpse into how she will handle things if she were president, as much as how she has handled her campaign so far.

[Eric P]

well she's got the popular vote

*cough*

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/20/us/politics/19cnd-clinton.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

[Eel O'Brian]

all i want to know is, when does the road warrior shit start, so i can mount my shotgun to the door of my truck

wait, i live in north carolina, i can pretty much do that anytime i want

never mind

[Phoenix Dark]

Since we're painting in black and white, it is a pretty common theory that a 'gas tax holiday' would lose the country millions in lost tax revenue, while not adversely affecting 'big oil.' Since oil output would not increase, the increased demand could bring prices right back to where they were before...at least until the tax is reapplied, and we end up paying over five dollars a gallon.

Supporting the gas holiday is UNAMERICAN. 

And gas companies could simply raise prices in the absence of the tax; if 20 cents is tacked off due to the tax going bye bye for instance, they can just raise prices 15 cents or whatever amount they want.

It's good to see that this blatant pander hasn't worked well. Gas is $3.90 here, and higher in some of the bigger cities in Michigan. This "holiday" simply exploits the financial pain people are experiencing by offering a mirage solution.

[Akala]

And gas companies could simply raise prices in the absence of the tax; if 20 cents is tacked off due to the tax going bye bye for instance, they can just raise prices 15 cents or whatever amount they want.

It's good to see that this blatant pander hasn't worked well. Gas is $3.90 here, and higher in some of the bigger cities in Michigan. This "holiday" simply exploits the financial pain people are experiencing by offering a mirage solution.

What have oil companies done to warrant this unfounded pessimism?!

[MrAngryFace]

FLORIGAN!

[Tauntaun]

Isn't she supported by big oil?

[The Fake Shemp]

Obama won me as a voter by making a clear and compelling argument agains a) the gas tax holiday and b) why it should not be manipulated as an election buzzword

[Mandark]

I think it could be argued that it is a glimpse into how she will handle things if she were president, as much as how she has handled her campaign so far.

True that.  Seeing Clinton and her campaign staff push really bogus storylines with no sense of shame scared me.  I don't want to elect a Democrat just to tune in to the Daily Show and see them acting just as insane and oblivious as Bush's crew did.

Obama won me as a voter by making a clear and compelling argument agains a) the gas tax holiday and b) why it should not be manipulated as an election buzzword

He does have a pretty striking tendency to talk to people as if they were adults.  I hope that more people react like you did, but in the back of my mind I'm terrified that it'll backfire.

[MrAngryFace]

Im just hoping all these new college voters can beat the old racists

[Akala]

Im just hoping all these new college voters can beat the old racists

Has that ever happened, ever?

[MrAngryFace]

this is a unique climate, everyone is voting!

[huckleberry]

Im just hoping all these new college voters can beat the old racists

Not is this apathetic country is that ever going to happen....unfortunately.



Americans new to the voting process have been a disappointment in the polling booths for decades.

[MrAngryFace]

turn out this election is through the roof everywhere

[huckleberry]

This is just the primary season. Wait till the apathy hits come Fall.  Happens everytime.

[MrAngryFace]

It'd be easier if we weren't so busy decorating our houses and having get togethers n crap. Spring/Summer = BORED

[Mandark]

Before this election I thought the youth vote would be overblown like every other time.  Shows what I know, but this really is an anomaly.  He's the only candidate who's used the youth vote as part of an actual winning coalition.  Sorry Dean, Hart, Ron Paul, etc.

It's kind of central to Obama's oddly circular appeal too.



OBAMA: Vote for me!

ME: Why?

OBAMA: I can effect change better than the other candidates!

ME: How?

OBAMA: By reaching creating a large coalition that will give me the political capital to take on special interests!

ME: A coalition of voters?

OBAMA: Yes!

ME: So people should vote for you because...

OBAMA: Because people vote for me!

ME: ...

OBAMA: ...

JOHN EDWARDS EXITS, PURSUED BY A BEAR

ME: Well, okay!

[Scurvy Stan]

Cant we just throw them all out and start over?

[MrAngryFace]

I dunno why we would want to, this is the best batch of candidates we've had in a while