Garnett hates on Killzone 2

[FancyFeast]

Is this guy trying to get a job with Steven Totillo or something?  Seems so.  Garnett, the next N'Gai.   


Wow, look, your creepy uncle.   
   

Previews: Killzone 2
We shoot our way through two sections of an early level.

By Garnett Lee  05/20/2008
Target: Killzone 2

Background: This gritty sci-fi shooter pits the Interplanetary Strategic Alliance against the Helghast in the long-awaited sequel to one of the bigger disappointments of the PS2 library. The original Killzone received tremendous prerelease hype, only to stumble on enough technical problems alone to ensure it never lived up to expectations. Developer Guerrilla Games seems unfazed by that experience, though, with excitement for Killzone 2 growing to grand proportions. The notorious E3 2005 teaser clip hooked everyone, and ever since, the question has been whether the game can live up to the buzz.

What We Played: The playable demo encompassed two sequential areas, helping to demonstrate the "sectioning-off" approach Guerrilla hopes will make the long levels more manageable for players. The first area opened with our character on a flying assault landing craft approaching a Helghast base. After getting shot down, we had to make our way through debris and enemies to reach the entry to the next section. The second part of the demo took the action inside a warehouse environment, ultimately leading to a gate-control room where we opened the door for a whole convoy of our buddies to come through.

SCREENS: Click the image above to check out all Killzone 2 screens.

Good to Go: In the section we played, Killzone 2 handily cleared the technical hurdles and demonstrated its ability to execute well on all the fundamental shooter mechanics. After a slight tweak to the sensitivity settings (the default halfway setting felt way too twitchy), the controls responded predictably to our inputs, and the onscreen action moved smoothly. A number of special effects, particularly motion- and depth-of-field blurring, helped play up the cinematic feel of the game. And while not overemphasized, the cover system worked very comfortably. It was easy to get into a protected position -- and once there, peek out to take a quick look or squeeze off a couple of rounds.

Warning Sign: The level design in certain places felt forced. Sometimes, this was as simple as needing to blow open a wall -- a handy rocket launcher would just happen to be nearby. The major concern came from a stretch in the first section we played, where enemies could be seen on catwalks ahead, but the producer guiding the demo advised us we were wasting our time sniping them, as they would infinitely respawn. The explanation given was that access to those positions along the line allowed the enemy to reinforce at will, but watching guys file back in to take the places of their fallen comrades almost immediately broke some of the game's immersion. And then, once we got to the right place in the sequence, we actually were able to eliminate those enemies, making it feel all the more artificial.

SCREENS: Click the image above to check out all Killzone 2 screens.

Warning Sign: Killzone 2's designs show a tremendous attention to detail, but what we saw struggled to stand out. The drab environments filled with concrete, rubble, and more concrete looked like a stage from any number of similar games. The guns might not have been modern real-world weapons -- but, for all intents and purposes, they could've been. The warehouse area -- which turns into a killhouse when commandos drop through the skylights -- didn't do anything to distinguish itself. Nor did the requisite exploding barrels and gas tanks.

Lukewarm Afterglow: The intoxicating effects wore off fairly quickly once we actually started playing. The game's subdued gray color palette certainly didn't help matters, but the issue goes deeper than that. "Been there, done that" crept in pretty quickly, and the strict, linear progression in this play session only emphasized that. We almost got the feeling that the developers programmed every action we took: take cover here, shoot guy to right, shoot guy who comes through doorway to left, slide right.... And infinite respawn spots -- seriously? Killzone 2 definitely proved its technical ability; now the question becomes whether it finds a way to distinguish itself from the crowd.

This game may or may not be a pile of shit, but this guy has zero crediblity and is kind of a joke.  He sucks on 1UP yours, bigtime.  He almost seems out of the loop.

[Cormacaroni]

Garnett is teh bias now? Wha?

[duckman2000]

Well, Killzone 2 quality be damned, this dude had better not have had anything good to say about COD4.

[FancyFeast]

Garnett is teh bias now? Wha?

Who said that?  I just think he is a turd looking to make a name.

[pilonv1]

- sectioned off areas
- infinite respawns
- linear levels
- scripted encounters

why does anyone care about this?

[duckman2000]

- sectioned off areas
- infinite respawns
- linear levels
- scripted encounters

why does anyone care about this?

Er, barring Crysis, what recent high profile first person shooter hasn't been based around several, if not all, of the above mentioned "negatives"? Of all the things that seem "off" about Killzone 2, none of the above should be yelled about too loudly by fans of your common shooter.

[FancyFeast]

- sectioned off areas
- infinite respawns
- linear levels
- scripted encounters

why does anyone care about this?

Er, barring Crysis, what recent high profile first person shooter hasn't been based around several, if not all, of the above mentioned "negatives"? Of all the things that seem "off" about Killzone 2, none of the above should be yelled about too loudly by fans of your common shooter.

To have the same COD scripting in a FPS these days is shameful(COD included).

[pilonv1]

Agreed FF.

And I don't see Halo 3 having scripting as bad as COD4.

[Van Cruncheon]

why the fuck is anyone excited about killzone 2

i cannot fathom fanboys

[duckman2000]

Well, it's pretty and seems to do a damned good job of utilizing the first person perspective in all the right ways. Nice guns and big explosions would explain any mainstream appeal. As for the others, there's also a remarkably large number of dudes who have convinced themselves and others, with the aid of a so-so isometric PSP shooter, that Guerrilla is not the same developer that brought us fucking Killzone. You can pick Killzone apart and finds lots of good things in there, like nice environments, neat throat slashes and such, but god damn did that game ever suck monkey shit. And contrary to popular revisionist history, there was a lot more to that monkey shit than just technological shortcomings.

[Van Cruncheon]

i can understand a "hey, that looks neat, let's keep an eye on it" but those fuckin' helghast avatars paint them as the needy nerdlinger equivalent of those guys in varicolor afro wigs at padres games

[duckman2000]

Knowing this group of people, that's probably exactly what they are going for

[Vizzys]

fuck killzone 2

[duckman2000]

why the fuck is anyone excited about killzone 2

if you are in an office and there is a woman with one eye and elephantitis, a 50stone woman, and a relatively normal looking 40+ year old divorcee, you will find at least one of them hot.

Attraction to the least offensive option syndrome total.

Oh come on now, if we are going to do the look thing, Killzone 2 is a hottie. She may not know a thing about man-pleasing, but if she's hot enough, she might not have to. Or something.

I just wish I knew that the developer could be trusted so I could be honestly excited about the game. But these guys made Killzone. Killzone. You can't just wash that away with additional staff and bigger budget, as if Killzone was somehow not rotten to the core.

[Cormacaroni]

Garnett is teh bias now? Wha?

Who said that?  I just think he is a turd looking to make a name.

So when you accuse someone of having zero credibility, you're not accusing him of bias. Got it. Any other massive violations of the English language/logic you'd care to perform today?

[Tieno]

The actual gameplay didn't look that exciting and you could deduce the heavy linear feeling and scripting from what they showed yourself.

[abrader]

who?

[Darunia]

ok, ok. this has just been posted in the gaf Killzone 2 hype thread. It will be fun to see the 'it's 1UP', 'who cares? it's proven that garnett is biased' posts roll in

[Pharmacy]

killzone 2 is gonna be fucking amazing

first person cover system

[cool breeze]

Well, Killzone 2 quality be damned, this dude had better not have had anything good to say about COD4.

He hated on CoD4 being all scripted and even the Gears 2 footage thinking that was also way too scripted.  I thought CoD4 had a poor single player game, but at least the footage of Killzone 2 shown looks much more interesting than anything from the CoD4 single player. 

[Tieno]

ok, ok. this has just been posted in the gaf Killzone 2 hype thread. It will be fun to see the 'it's 1UP', 'who cares? it's proven that garnett is biased' posts roll in

I think crossrefencing the reactions of people in that thread to the 1upyours thread where garnett was trolling wii and 360 games might give some nice ammunition, if some of the same people responded.

[dark1x]

KZ2 is an almost exact rerun, we're getting media that looks great, lots of hype, but a game that will (at best) probably be average. Just like Killzone.

I'm not expecting a AAA game with KZ2, but I think that's a bit harsh.  One of the primary reasons the original game was so difficult to enjoy was its framerate.  Along with Advent Rising, Killzone featured a framerate lower than virtually every other game released last generation.  The poor performance literally made for an unplayable game.  Then you have to consider all of the other flaws that occured regularly.  Even still, there were some reasonably interesting aspects to the game.

The PSP game, however, was an excellent isometric shooter that at least proves that Guerilla is capable of creating decent software.

At worst, Killzone 2 will be an average shooter, but it also has the potential to become something great.  The early demos of KZ2 are already a significant improvement over the original game.

The hype is pretty much the result of its fantastic visuals, however. 

The original article has some valid points, however, and would agree that those are areas of concern.  It seems to share some of the flaws that have plagued Call of Duty for years.  Problem is, CoD4 is insanely popular and has received tons of praise.  Obviously those flaws are NOT a problem to most gamers.  I didn't enjoy CoD4 anywhere NEAR as much as most people, however, and that may end up being the case here as well.

[Van Cruncheon]

where are these "fantastic" visuals

[Mupepe]

PlayStation 3
Killzone 2 (2009) (in development)

PlayStation Portable
Killzone: Liberation (2006)

PlayStation 2
Shellshock: Nam '67 (2004)
Killzone (2004)

Games -- As Lost Boys Games

Game Boy Color
Tiny Toon Adventures: Dizzy's Candy Quest (2001)
Rhino Rumble (2002)

Game Boy Advance
Black Belt Challenge (2002)
Invader (2002)
----------------
I don't see how anyone can be really excited for gameplay with a track record like that.  Shellshock is still one of the worst FPS games I've ever played.  AND I PLAYED TUROK

Yoda: Production Value and graphics, make a good game they do not.

[duckman2000]

Well, Killzone 2 quality be damned, this dude had better not have had anything good to say about COD4.

He hated on CoD4 being all scripted and even the Gears 2 footage thinking that was also way too scripted.

Well that's fair enough then. And for fuck's sake Prole, pick something else to troll about the game (there's plenty to choose from). This angle just isn't going to work.

[MrAngryFace]

Killzone 2, reasons to be excited:

Killzone 1 was good -- haha no
Killzone Liberation was a good FPS --haha not even an FPS, thats right, the only decent game in the franchise ISNT an fps
Screenshots-- well there are those, lets all jizz for screenshots most likely doctored to oblivion
Sony Fan Wishfull thinking-- there's always that; this is like some bizzaro world where sony fans are nintendo fans circa 2003
No Longer needs to be a Halo Killer-- Halo's dead n gone kids, low hanging fruit for Killzone 2

[MrAngryFace]

There's nothing wrong with scripting when its done well, and there's nothing wrong with dynamic AI, but that AI better know what the fuck its doin

[dark1x]

where are these "fantastic" visuals

I suppose visuals are indeed an opinion, but they look pretty impressive in my eyes.  I can think of no other console shooter that looks more impressive at this time.

Even after competing Crysis several times at very high levels of detail, I still find KZ2 to be quite appealing visually.  The weapon models and animation are even more impressive than Crysis, the motion blur seems on par, and the level of detail is quite high.

I don't see how anyone can be really excited for gameplay with a track record like that.  Shellshock is still one of the worst FPS games I've ever played.  AND I PLAYED TUROK

Again, I'm not exactly hyped here, but I do think a developer can improve.  Their PSP game was significantly better than any of their previous titles and they have a larger budget and more time for Killzone 2.  Since Crysis was mentioned here, I'll note that I found the original Far Cry to be one of the worst FPS I had ever played back in 2004.  Some reasonably interesting ideas were destroyed by awful gameplay mechanics, AI, and other issues.  Only its visuals were impressive.

Crysis, on the other hand, was hands down my favorite FPS of the last year and one of the finest examples of the genre I can think of.  They made massive strides in every area.

re: scripting - i enjoyed COD4 single player. *shrug*

...then I can't understand why you're so down on Killzone 2.  CoD4 single player was nowhere NEAR as engaging as stuff like Crysis, Halo 3, and Bioshock.  Awful AI that relied almost entirely on scripts, infinitely respawning enemies, repetitive scenarios, and various other problems.

It wasn't terrible, I suppose, but it certainly doesn't deserve the amount of positive attention it's receiving.  It's an average shooter based on a model that has been around since 2002.

[MrAngryFace]

I found crysis pretty snore. I havent had an FPS really make me go WOW FUN since NOLF 1 and 2

[dark1x]

Even after competing Crysis several times at very high levels of detail, I still find KZ2 to be quite appealing visually

how can we even go there until we have the game running on PS3 hardware?
(unless of course you've tried it)

Well, I do not trust most impressions when it comes to visuals, but TTP spent time with the game and was extremely impressed.  I've found that, if TTP is impressed, I'm likely to be as well.  Those impressions combined with the media I've seen of the game suggest that it's a great looking game.  Keep in mind that TTP has been VERY negative about many PS3 games and their visuals.  While people were praising Heavenly Sword, he was slamming it (and I agree).  Same deal with many other releases.

[MrAngryFace]

most ps3 games are ugs cause of flaws inherent in the PS3, ahhhh the shimmering

[Grecco]

Garnett Lee is pretty awesome.

Also i dont see how the Makers of Shelshock Nam. An Abortion in Disk form can make an AAA game.

[Mupepe]

I don't see how anyone can be really excited for gameplay with a track record like that.  Shellshock is still one of the worst FPS games I've ever played.  AND I PLAYED TUROK

Again, I'm not exactly hyped here, but I do think a developer can improve.  Their PSP game was significantly better than any of their previous titles and they have a larger budget and more time for Killzone 2.  Since Crysis was mentioned here, I'll note that I found the original Far Cry to be one of the worst FPS I had ever played back in 2004.  Some reasonably interesting ideas were destroyed by awful gameplay mechanics, AI, and other issues.  Only its visuals were impressive.

Crysis, on the other hand, was hands down my favorite FPS of the last year and one of the finest examples of the genre I can think of.  They made massive strides in every area.

From the video I saw of Killzone, the gameplay looked like ass.  I think they're simply using a larger budget and more time to polish a turd and create fantastic visuals.

I think Liberation was great, but again, it wasn't an FPS.  When they make a competent FPS, I'll be excited about the gameplay.  But the A.I. and gameplay elements looked downright dated in the videos I saw.  I just see it as a beautiful turd.

[hyp]

killzone 2 gets talked about way more than it deserves.  KZ2 and the entire franchise.

[MrAngryFace]

I think Liberation was great, but again, it wasn't an FPS.  When they make a competent FPS, I'll be excited about the gameplay.  But the A.I. and gameplay elements looked downright dated in the videos I saw.  I just see it as a beautiful turd.

/thread

[dark1x]

But the A.I. and gameplay elements looked downright dated in the videos I saw.  I just see it as a beautiful turd.

Yet people love Call of Duty 4.

The mind boggles.

[MrAngryFace]

There is NOTHING WRONG WITH SCRIPTING! IT IS A DIFFERENT WAY TO DO THINGS!

[hyp]

i didn't mind the COD4 scripting tbh.  i don't think i could've 1000/1000'd that game if it weren't for it.   

[Mupepe]

But the A.I. and gameplay elements looked downright dated in the videos I saw.  I just see it as a beautiful turd.

Yet people love Call of Duty 4.

The mind boggles.

I think most people love CoD4 for its MP more than anything.

[dark1x]

I think most people love CoD4 for its MP more than anything.

No doubt, but the single player portions received plenty of praise.

People say "BUT SCRIPTING IS OK", yet the game doesn't exactly rely on quality scripting throughout most of the experience.  

Anyone slamming KZ2 at this point shouldn't be praising Call of Duty 4.  That's all I'm saying.

[FancyFeast]

Garnett is teh bias now? Wha?

Who said that?  I just think he is a turd looking to make a name.

So when you accuse someone of having zero credibility, you're not accusing him of bias. Got it. Any other massive violations of the English language/logic you'd care to perform today?

Are you really that stupid?  This is a put on, right?   

[Mupepe]

The thing is, you guys are pretty much naming graphics shit as a positive which no one is really refuting!  The game looks pretty sex, but have you watched the videos?  Why do enemies just stand there (right next to cover I might add!) getting shot and not even shooting back???  Why does the level design look like CoD2???

[Mupepe]

I think most people love CoD4 for its MP more than anything.

No doubt, but the single player portions received plenty of praise.

People say "BUT SCRIPTING IS OK", yet the game doesn't exactly rely on quality scripting throughout most of the experience.  

Anyone slamming KZ2 at this point shouldn't be praising Call of Duty 4.  That's all I'm saying.

I don't mind scripting, but I didn't care for CoD4's SP either.  That game had some horrible SP design.  And like KZ (so it seems so far), the only thing it had going for it was atmosphere, at least IMO. 

Read my post above to see my complaints about KZ2 gameplay.

[Pharmacy]

The thing is, you guys are pretty much naming graphics shit as a positive which no one is really refuting!  The game looks pretty sex, but have you watched the videos?  Why do enemies just stand there (right next to cover I might add!) getting shot and not even shooting back???  Why does the level design look like CoD2???

hmmmmm mabye people wanting to play a quick demo at a busy event dont want to have difficult to fight enemies?????????????? i dont know, mabye people would like to play a demo thats as hard as cod4 veteran?????????see i honestly dont know the answer to the question (WAIT THATS A LIE IM BEING SARCASTIC, AI IS TONED DOWN FOR DEMO)

[Mupepe]

The thing is, you guys are pretty much naming graphics shit as a positive which no one is really refuting!  The game looks pretty sex, but have you watched the videos?  Why do enemies just stand there (right next to cover I might add!) getting shot and not even shooting back???  Why does the level design look like CoD2???

hmmmmm mabye people wanting to play a quick demo at a busy event dont want to have difficult to fight enemies?? i dont know, mabye people would like to play a demo thats as hard as cod4 veteran???see i honestly dont know the answer to the question (WAIT THATS A LIE IM BEING SARCASTIC, AI IS TONED DOWN FOR DEMO)

Really?  Because I'd imagine people would ya know, like to see what the actual game plays like.  Ya know, since gaming publications are using this demo as a basis for previews that people will read to help them decide if they're interested in the game.  So if you could provide me with information backing up your point, I'd really appreciate it.

[dark1x]

The thing is, you guys are pretty much naming graphics shit as a positive which no one is really refuting!  The game looks pretty sex, but have you watched the videos?  Why do enemies just stand there (right next to cover I might add!) getting shot and not even shooting back???  Why does the level design look like CoD2???

You have to keep in mind that this is a demo environment for the press.  Do you remember some of the early Gears showings?  The AI seemed even worse than what we are seeing in KZ2.  It is very common for a press demo to feature dumbed down AI.

The AI MAY suck in the end, but we can't really judge it just yet.  I will remain skeptical until the game is released, however.

[Mupepe]

The thing is, you guys are pretty much naming graphics shit as a positive which no one is really refuting!  The game looks pretty sex, but have you watched the videos?  Why do enemies just stand there (right next to cover I might add!) getting shot and not even shooting back???  Why does the level design look like CoD2???

You have to keep in mind that this is a demo environment for the press.  Do you remember some of the early Gears showings?  The AI seemed even worse than what we are seeing in KZ2.  This is often the case.

The AI MAY suck in the end, but we can't really judge it just yet.  I will remain skeptical until the game is released, however.

To be honest, I don't remember, but I'll take your word for it.

But even still, the AI in that video was glaringly bad and was even worse than run of the mill bad AI.

[hyp]

in other KZ2 news:

"Sony: Killzone 2 delay is STRATEGIC"

Killzone 2 may have been delayed again, this time until next February, but the move is the result of strategy, not problems, says Sony.

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/05/sony-killzone-2.html

[duckman2000]

To be clear, I don't disagree with the criticism leveled against the game. I just find it to be a pretty ridiculous list of complaints when a massively popular and very recent FPS sports the same issues, at an even more blatant level.

[Pharmacy]

The thing is, you guys are pretty much naming graphics shit as a positive which no one is really refuting!  The game looks pretty sex, but have you watched the videos?  Why do enemies just stand there (right next to cover I might add!) getting shot and not even shooting back???  Why does the level design look like CoD2???

hmmmmm mabye people wanting to play a quick demo at a busy event dont want to have difficult to fight enemies?? i dont know, mabye people would like to play a demo thats as hard as cod4 veteran???see i honestly dont know the answer to the question (WAIT THATS A LIE IM BEING SARCASTIC, AI IS TONED DOWN FOR DEMO)

Really?  Because I'd imagine people would ya know, like to see what the actual game plays like.  Ya know, since gaming publications are using this demo as a basis for previews that people will read to help them decide if they're interested in the game.  So if you could provide me with information backing up your point, I'd really appreciate it.

look we both know what im saying is an educated guess, i dont have info to back it up so well done for trying to call me out on it. HOWEVER, my argument is much more plausible than "the AI basically sucks, this is the best the AI can, and ever will do" even though the game is still pre-alpha. AI is set to a much easier, dumber setting so that people have a chance to blast through and ENJOY it, not stand around at a crowded booth being ridiculously challenged

[Mupepe]

The thing is, you guys are pretty much naming graphics shit as a positive which no one is really refuting!  The game looks pretty sex, but have you watched the videos?  Why do enemies just stand there (right next to cover I might add!) getting shot and not even shooting back???  Why does the level design look like CoD2???

hmmmmm mabye people wanting to play a quick demo at a busy event dont want to have difficult to fight enemies?? i dont know, mabye people would like to play a demo thats as hard as cod4 veteran???see i honestly dont know the answer to the question (WAIT THATS A LIE IM BEING SARCASTIC, AI IS TONED DOWN FOR DEMO)

Really?  Because I'd imagine people would ya know, like to see what the actual game plays like.  Ya know, since gaming publications are using this demo as a basis for previews that people will read to help them decide if they're interested in the game.  So if you could provide me with information backing up your point, I'd really appreciate it.

look we both know what im saying is an educated guess, i dont have info to back it up so well done for trying to call me out on it. HOWEVER, my argument is much more plausible than "the AI basically sucks, this is the best the AI can, and ever will do" even though the game is still pre-alpha. AI is set to a much easier, dumber setting so that people have a chance to blast through and ENJOY it, not stand around at a crowded booth being ridiculously challenged

Not saying it won't improve and that it wasn't dumbed down on some sort.  But this is what is given for me to base my opinion on and I'm doing so accordingly.  And I'm not even one to really ever care about dumb AI.  But you figured they'd at least have the helghast taking cover to show off something.  It was ridiculously bad.  I really hope they clear it up. 

[MrAngryFace]

CoD games are generally a lot of fun, killzone games are generally....what?

There's a lot of reason CoD is popular dude

[AdmiralViscen]

I hated CoD4's single player so I'm clear to rip on KZ2.

[Smooth Groove]

CoD games are generally a lot of fun, killzone games are generally....what?

There's a lot of reason CoD is popular dude

Maf's common sense prevailing over fanboy logic

[cool breeze]

CoD games are generally a lot of fun, killzone games are generally....what?

There's a lot of reason CoD is popular dude

CoD has a number of games, out of the eight (including expansion packs), only 4 are good.  Killzone has two games in the series, the PSP game is good while the PS2 one isnt.

I am generally just commenting on the single player.  CoD1/3/4 all had amazing multiplayer, although CoD1 single player was great and CoD2 single player was pushing it while CoD4 single player is just bad.  I can't comment on the multiplayer on the two Killzone games because I never tried them out.

[duckman2000]

CoD games are generally a lot of fun, killzone games are generally....what?

There's a lot of reason CoD is popular dude

That doesn't make it any less idiotic to dog on a game for featuring issues that plagued this much beloved COD franchise. I doubt anyone here, or at least anyone reasonable, assumes that Guerrilla can go toe to toe with Infinity Ward and actually deliver a great and engaging game, but this particular list shouldn't be used by anyone who has ever praised COD4.

[Brehvolution]

Wow @ teh

why the fuck is anyone excited about killzone 2

i cannot fathom fanboys

[Mupepe]

^^
Why does he reach in with his right hand but slap with his left?

[Mupepe]

[MrAngryFace]

CoD games are generally a lot of fun, killzone games are generally....what?

There's a lot of reason CoD is popular dude

That doesn't make it any less idiotic to dog on a game for featuring issues that plagued this much beloved COD franchise. I doubt anyone here, or at least anyone reasonable, assumes that Guerrilla can go toe to toe with Infinity Ward and actually deliver a great and engaging game, but this particular list shouldn't be used by anyone who has ever praised COD4.

I dont think you not liking CoD games qualifies as 'plagued with issues'. I dont generally LIKE CoD games because of the scripting, but it doesnt mean they did it poorly. Maybe *SHOCK* I dont like games with heavy scripting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!