I didn't think Hillary could get any dumber

[FlameOfCallandor]

i am pointing out that ron paul and david duke have argued very similar platforms -- in fact, your boy has been endorsed by david duke. you stupidly asked how two folks could have the same platform yet could elicit opposite reactions in supporters of that platform.

ron paul. david duke. if david duke picked up the nomination, would you vote for him?

No. I'm sure David Duke would endorse Thomas Jefferson. Does that make him a bad person?

I see what you trying to say, but Ron Paul has had a much richer history in congress. I dont even know much abut David Duke other than he ran for governor ins Louisiana.

[TVC15]

oh gtfo foc. personality =/= values. Hillary has totally embarrassed herself during this election, from the gas tax to the obliterate comment.

I'm agreeing with you. All the hate for hillary seems to be her personality, the difference in policy is marginal at best. And yet we have evilbore shitcans going gaga over the Obama and calling Hillary the worst thing ever.

Like it or not, personality is somewhat important in a president.  They are basically the face of our country.  As far as policy goes, they are talking similar talks, but Clinton, like her husband, will be a puppet to special interests again, whereas Obama has (so far) avoided becoming indebted to them.  Also, Hillary is shady and her political career over the past several years clearly indicates that she is willing to put on any face, no matter how fake and contrary, to look good.  

[FlameOfCallandor]

Thanks, TVC posts a legitimate response to my question.

As far Obama and getting involved with special interest groups, has his past indicated anything?

[MrAngryFace]

Thanks, TVC posts a legitimate response to my question.

As far Obama and getting involved with special interest groups, has his past indicated anything?

Why dont you exercise your weak brain at the library you lazy fuck.

[Mandark]

He passed an ethics reform bill in the Illinois legislature and one in the US Senate.  The one he passed in the Senate was stronger than the Democratic leadership wanted.  They tried to gut a couple of the provisions, but Obama and some allies made a stink and got them back in.

The Audacity of Hope apparently spends a lot of time discussing how small, concentrated interest groups warp the political process.  I'd read it, but I'm dead set against paying money for a glorified campaign mailer.

[Human Snorenado]

Triumph:  Honestly, I think the Clintons are non-radical progressives who fought their political battles over a couple decades when the electorate was center-right and a Democratic candidate had to do certain things to overcome that handicap.  Talk tough on foreign policy, actively distance yourself from the unpopular parts of the Dem coalition (hippies and angry darkies), stay away from the culture wars and only attempt very incremental gains.

Things are shifting to the left now and they're slow to recognize it.  But at least they're not kicking and screaming like Joe Lieberman.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Of course maybe she's just spent so much time around the usual beltway power brokers that she just got comfortable with it and accepts corporatism as the natural state of things.  Maybe she really dislikes the activist wing of the Dems on the merits (like her recent quote about MoveOn disagreeing with her foreign policy).  I like the first version better, though.  I'm a romantic soul.

[close]

I will always distrust her.  She only stopped being a Republican because her candidate lost out.  I mean, she was the President of the College Republicans at Wellesley. 

[MrAngryFace]

mandark: pirate the audiobook! The audacity of thrift!

[TVC15]

He passed an ethics reform bill in the Illinois legislature and one in the US Senate.  The one he passed in the Senate was stronger than the Democratic leadership wanted.  They tried to gut a couple of the provisions, but Obama and some allies made a stink and got them back in.

The Audacity of Hope apparently spends a lot of time discussing how small, concentrated interest groups warp the political process.  I'd read it, but I'm dead set against paying money for a glorified campaign mailer.

I pirated the audiobook.  It's actually good stuff.  Although it's, of course, all very subjective, he does give a good history of the identity crisis the Democrats have been having since the 60s or so.   I wouldn't pay for it either, but listening to it on the way to work fo' free was a good deal.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Thanks, TVC posts a legitimate response to my question.

As far Obama and getting involved with special interest groups, has his past indicated anything?

Why dont you exercise your weak brain at the library you lazy fuck.

Because I dont care enough about him and it seems lik enough people here do.

[Mandark]

People have told me to do that, but I don't want to listen to the audiobook, lest his baritone make everything sound 40% wiser than it really is.  I'm trying to evaluate this objectively, dammit.

[TVC15]

People have told me to do that, but I don't want to listen to the audiobook, lest his baritone make everything sound 40% wiser than it really is.  I'm trying to evaluate this objectively, dammit.

I can put my copy of the audiobook in Soundforge and make his voice a few octaves higher if that will help.  He will sound like a black chipmunk.

[Van Cruncheon]

i'd listen to anything* read to me in a helium voice

* -- anything other than atlus shrugged, that is

[Mandark]

People have told me to do that, but I don't want to listen to the audiobook, lest his baritone make everything sound 40% wiser than it really is.  I'm trying to evaluate this objectively, dammit.

I can put my copy of the audiobook in Soundforge and make his voice a few octaves higher if that will help.  He will sound like a black chipmunk.

"Aaaaaaaaaaaaandre!"

[etiolate]

Hillary's personality type makes her platform irrelevant. Her platform changes to suit what will get her power. The attainment of more power is her platform, whatever gets her that is what will currently come out of her mouth. That is why it is a personality issue. Bill was the same way, but less extreme.

If Hillary and Obama were running 'platforms' that represented what I would want done, I still wouldn't vote for Hillary because she can not be trusted.

[Debaser]

i'd listen to anything* read to me in a helium voice

* -- anything other than atlus shrugged, that is

ron paul 08: the musubi way

[siamesedreamer]

As far Obama and getting involved with special interest groups, has his past indicated anything?

Check out the $280B farm bill he voted for this week - written by special interests for special interests.

Obama will probably be slightly better than most. But, its foolish to believe he'll be completely insulated from special interest groups. That's how the game is played.

[APF]

As always, it depends on which "special interest" you're talking about being influenced by, which is why the term is essentially meaningless.

[APF]

In terms of trust re: Hillary and her policy proposals, why are they less trustworthy than those coming from an Obama campaign which on numerous occasions has specifically stated you can't hold the candidate to his campaign proposals?

How is this argument not a completely subjective regurgitation of right-wing talking points, while at the same time giving Obama a pass on those same points (inc being politically uncourageous, working with Republicans, etc)?

[The Fake Shemp]

Why don't you say what's REALLY on your mind, APF - you racist!

[FlameOfCallandor]

My favorite moment of the whole campaign has been when Daily KOS is outraged over Republicans voting Hillary, but praising republicans who switch to vote for Obama.
 

 

[APF]

I don't hate all races, just that distance shit.  Oooh I forgot to rub Astroglide over my chest and now my nipples are all chafed!  Douchebags.

[MrAngryFace]

APF sounds like regurgitated political radio zzzzzzzz

[APF]

Also Brown People.

[Van Cruncheon]

In terms of trust re: Hillary and her policy proposals, why are they less trustworthy than those coming from an Obama campaign which on numerous occasions has specifically stated you can't hold the candidate to his campaign proposals?

How is this argument not a completely subjective regurgitation of right-wing talking points, while at the same time giving Obama a pass on those same points (inc being politically uncourageous, working with Republicans, etc)?

who's giving him a pass? i'm just picking the candidate CLOSEST to my ideal, and the length of the radius be damned.

[APF]

Oh, I didn't see the post where you say you can't trust either of their stated platforms, but nonetheless intuit Obama is microscopically closer to some sort of political and ideological ideal you hold.  Apologies.

Seriously though, the "pass" is directed towards those who would ignore repeated comments saying they shouldn't hold Obama to his campaign platform, yet say the reason they ultimately can't stand Hillary is because they don't trust she'll hold to her campaign platform.

[Mandark]

an Obama campaign which on numerous occasions has specifically stated you can't hold the candidate to his campaign proposals?

List plz.

[APF]

Why give a list when on GAF you've already agreed with the proposition?  I'd give you that link, but I was banned for posting on a monday morning.

[Mandark]

List plz?

[APF]

Why give a list when on GAF you've already agreed with the proposition?  I'd give you that link, but I was banned for posting on a monday morning.

.


You deny then, that: a) the Obama campaign has suggested this; b) you agreed with the proposition?

[AdmiralViscen]

Wow man.

[youtube=425,350]BjYpkvcmog0[/youtube]

[The Fake Shemp]

WOW WTF

[APF]

Uhh

[Howard Alan Treesong]

uhh

[Enl]

Holy hell, what the fuck is wrong with these people?

[Candyflip]

What was she thinking? No more job for her.

[Van Cruncheon]

holy

[Mupepe]

jesus christ!

[Human Snorenado]

I said wow

[The Fake Shemp]

How has this not caused a stir amongst the Sharpton/Jackson groupies?

[Human Snorenado]

How has this not caused a stir amongst the Sharpton/Jackson groupies?

It just happened earlier today, give it time. 

Timeline of a right wing scandal:

Shit happens -> shit gets posted on internets (drudge/kos) -> shit hits msm websites -> people are outraged or laugh depending on if it's an assassination threat or gay bathroom sex scandal -> newscasts pick it up -> Al Sharpton shows up on tv to talk about it

[Mandark]

List plz?

[The Fake Shemp]

I can't believe that I'm reading that Clinton feels she was victimized by Obama after his campaign ruthlessly took her RFK assassination comments out of context.  She's the victim now?

[Howard Alan Treesong]

when Obama makes a mistake he's all, "sorry, made a mistake"

Hillary is all, "HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME OF MAKING A MISTAKE! YOU ARE THE MISTAKE!"

:eyeroll

[AdmiralViscen]

She's been the victim her entire life. Fortunately, she's a fighter.

[The Fake Shemp]

I just can't believe she's like, "I made a mistake.  No, wait - you made the mistake!  You took my comments out of context and by reporting it, you are mudslinging my candidacy!  HOW DARE YOU!"

[Howard Alan Treesong]

yeah, it's crazy because the mistake was so serious she actually apologized

then she thought better of it and is backpedaling to her normal attack pattern

[The Fake Shemp]

I seriously think she's either delusional or being played by some insane political puppeteers.  Nobody can believe the crap she is spewing, not even herself.  She should get a free pass for saying dumb things?  Has she run in an election before?

[Mandark]

I think after New Hampshire the Clinton campaign decided that Hillary Under Fire was a useful narrative and they're clinging to it like grim death, facts be damned.

Most people have very little exposure to the news, so if you can get a 50/50 split out of the coverage in headlines, first paragraphs, and 30-second news spots, you're fine.  Hm, maybe inverted pyramid style is what's really killing political discourse in this country.

[The Fake Shemp]

Mandark, you're crazy!  Once the Clinton Political Machine gains a full head of steam, there's no going back.  Obama can't compete with the machine - he's only human!

[APF]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Henry_(folklore)

[APF]

Why give a list when on GAF you've already agreed with the proposition?  I'd give you that link, but I was banned for posting on a monday morning.

.


You deny then, that: a) the Obama campaign has suggested this; b) you agreed with the proposition?

.

[siamesedreamer]

List plz?

Not a list, but interesting none-the-less:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/138519

[Eric P]

yeah, it's crazy because the mistake was so serious she actually apologized

then she thought better of it and is backpedaling to her normal attack pattern

no

she didn't apologize

she apologized if we got upset at her comments, she did not apologize for the comments themselves

she did that headfake apology juke

[AdmiralViscen]

I'm pretty sure she only REGRETS it, she's not apologetic.

[APF]

yeah, it's crazy because the mistake was so serious she actually apologized

then she thought better of it and is backpedaling to her normal attack pattern

no

she didn't apologize

she apologized if we got upset at her comments, she did not apologize for the comments themselves

she did that headfake apology juke

I hate it when chicks do this.