Let's look at the Indiana Jones budgets

[TVC15]

Raiders: $20 million (estimated)
Temple of Doom:    $28 million
Last Crusade: $48 million
Crystal Shits: $185 million

And oddly enough, from a production standpoint, Crystal Skull is probably the least impressive one.

[FlameOfCallandor]

  I bet $100 million was CGI for Ford's close ups.

[Rman]

Are these adjusted for inflation?

[TVC15]

Are these adjusted for inflation?

Even if you take inflation into account, it says a lot about how much the US dollar has gone down the shitter.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Are these adjusted for inflation?

Even if you take inflation into account, it says a lot about how much the US dollar has gone down the shitter.

[Rman]

Raiders was pretty impressive.  I'm surprised its budget was under 30 million.

[TVC15]

Raiders was pretty impressive.  I'm surprised its budget was under 30 million.

20 million in 1980/81 was a big budget.  Not amongst the biggest, but it was definitely a lot more than most movies.  Successful movies made like 30 million back then, aside from the humungadungas. 

IIRC, Empire and Return of the Jedi both cost 30ish million, and they were two of the most expensive movies at the time.

[The Fake Shemp]

I bet you could shoot all three of the original films for less than the budget of Crystal Skull combined if you really tried (if Spielberg was a mench with budgets like he used to be, or he was Guillermo Del Toro).

[Solo]

Where the shit did it go on Crystal Skull? It sure as fuck wasn't on locations, and it sure as fuck x infinity wasnt on CG. Jesus, least impressive ILM outing in years. Speed Racer and Iron Man, both also playing currently, and both also ILM jobs, both shit on Indy's CG.

[fistfulofmetal]

Most of it went to Shia, Kate, and Harrison probably.

[The Fake Shemp]

Here are the budgets, adjusted for inflation:

Raiders of the Lost Ark: $49.7 million
Temple of Doom: $57.5 million
The Last Crusade: $83.1 million

... Still makes The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull look silly!

[Solo]

Sadly, this is the first movie where Ive come out thinking that Spielberg may finally be losing his touch. From a directorial perspective, it was just so uninspired and by the numbers. Usually with his films there are several scenes that just scream Spielberg-ian, but I got nothing from Indy IV like that.

[fistfulofmetal]

Sadly, this is the first movie where Ive come out thinking that Spielberg may finally be losing his touch.

You really think this got all of Spielberg's love and attention? This is just a quick cash in to appease Lucas.

[TVC15]

Sadly, this is the first movie where Ive come out thinking that Spielberg may finally be losing his touch.

You never saw The Terminal? <shudder>

[Solo]

Sadly, this is the first movie where Ive come out thinking that Spielberg may finally be losing his touch.

You never saw The Terminal? <shudder>

Nope, missed that one. I fucking loathe Tom Hanks, so I pretty much skip all his shit.

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, I wouldn't view this film as a knock on Spielberg's credibility as a director.  When he's bored with the material or he does it out of some kind of weird fan guilt/commitment - it comes out pretty mediocre (see: The Lost World).  He's a gifted director and even his recent stuff that I was not a big fan of, like War of the Worlds, show that he still has the technical chops to be an elite director.

I feel Spielberg's recent failings can be rectified by the following:

1. Distancing himself from George Lucas.  Lucas is like a cancer at this point and he's trying to destroy any resemblance of creativity he once had.  He has infected the Indy franchise.  Back away, Steven!

2. Stop using drafts from David Koepp and being lazy with scripts.  Koepp is a hack - his best screenplays have been passed around Hollywood and worked on more than Joan Rivers.  Spielberg also used to write rough drafts and realized he wasn't a good enough writer to shoot what he wrote.  But he was invested in the writing process.  That hasn't happened in a long, long time.

3. Fire Kaminski.  Yeah, we all thought that look was cool the first time we saw it... a decade ago.  Now all your films look the same, totally blown out and washed out.  He completely failed in capturing the look of Raiders/Last Crusade (we'll exclude Temple of Doom) and makes something as lush and colorful as jungle locations look boring.

Spielberg needs to cast off some dead creative weight around him (Lucas, Kaminski, Koepp, etc.) and get back to his roots.  His technical knowledge is still incredible and his skills are unmatched.  He just needs an infusion of good talent around him.

[FlameOfCallandor]

You dont like Temple of Doom Willco?

[Van Cruncheon]

Sadly, this is the first movie where Ive come out thinking that Spielberg may finally be losing his touch.

You never saw The Terminal? <shudder>

Nope, missed that one. I fucking loathe Tom Hanks, so I pretty much skip all his shit.

yer back on my good list, solo. :thumbsup

[The Fake Shemp]

You dont like Temple of Doom Willco?

No, I'm excluding Temple of Doom from the conversation in terms of his DP because that installment looks so different from Raiders/Last Crusade.  Even still, I prefer the hyper-colorful look of Temple of Doom to Kaminski's blown/washed out look that he uses in everything.  He shoots films like the sun is ten feet from YOUR FUCKING FACE.  CAN YOU FEEL THE SUNBURN!?!

[TVC15]

Spielberg's not the only person that dialed this in.  Harrison Ford's performance was so fucking flat.  I mean, it's not like he had that many decent lines to work with, but his delivery just sucked.  It's like he wasn't even trying.  Cate Blanchett was pretty great, Shia wasn't bad, Karen Allen was okay (although I think seeing her may have just tickled my nostalgia fancy).  John Hurt was pretty much wasted, though.

Also, FoC, I just rewatched Temple.  I think the movie loses it right after Indy, Willie, and Short Round see the ceremony in the temple, when Indy goes off alone to get the stones.  Within 10 minutes, Willie is being sacrificed, Indy is EVIL, and Short Round is a slave.  It's like the movie kicks it into high gear, but instead of presenting a narrative, it just gives you a string of scenes that aren't very well connected to each other.

[The Fake Shemp]

Even prior to the release, Spielberg and Ford were saying things in interviews that sounded more like two grown men worn down by their friend (fuck you, Lucas!) to do something that weren't too keen on just to appease their buddy.  Kind of like when your friend throws a tantrum because he wants to go to a new restaurant instead of your favorite watering hole, and you reluctantly go out of friendship.  But then the new restaurant sucks and you're not having fun, because you'd rather be back at your old watering hole.

George Lucas got a free pass from Spielberg for so long.  Maybe this will be what wakes him up and makes him say, "George, your ideas fucking blow!  And I never liked the prequels either!"

[FlameOfCallandor]

Also, FoC, I just rewatched Temple.  I think the movie loses it right after Indy, Willie, and Short Round see the ceremony in the temple, when Indy goes off alone to get the stones.  Within 10 minutes, Willie is being sacrificed, Indy is EVIL, and Short Round is a slave.  It's like the movie kicks it into high gear, but instead of presenting a narrative, it just gives you a string of scenes that aren't very well connected to each other.

Shit, I forgot about that.

At least the opening was awesome, the mine cart scene was great and I thought the heart stuff was kind of cool too.

[Solo]

Yeah, I wouldn't view this film as a knock on Spielberg's credibility as a director.  When he's bored with the material or he does it out of some kind of weird fan guilt/commitment - it comes out pretty mediocre (see: The Lost World).  He's a gifted director and even his recent stuff that I was not a big fan of, like War of the Worlds, show that he still has the technical chops to be an elite director.

I feel Spielberg's recent failings can be rectified by the following:

1. Distancing himself from George Lucas.  Lucas is like a cancer at this point and he's trying to destroy any resemblance of creativity he once had.  He has infected the Indy franchise.  Back away, Steven!

2. Stop using drafts from David Koepp and being lazy with scripts.  Koepp is a hack - his best screenplays have been passed around Hollywood and worked on more than Joan Rivers.  Spielberg also used to write rough drafts and realized he wasn't a good enough writer to shoot what he wrote.  But he was invested in the writing process.  That hasn't happened in a long, long time.

3. Fire Kaminski.  Yeah, we all thought that look was cool the first time we saw it... a decade ago.  Now all your films look the same, totally blown out and washed out.  He completely failed in capturing the look of Raiders/Last Crusade (we'll exclude Temple of Doom) and makes something as lush and colorful as jungle locations look boring.

Spielberg needs to cast off some dead creative weight around him (Lucas, Kaminski, Koepp, etc.) and get back to his roots.  His technical knowledge is still incredible and his skills are unmatched.  He just needs an infusion of good talent around him.

Good points all around. I wasnt saying that Spiels has LOST his touch (there are fucking classic sequences in each of Minority Report, War of the Worlds, and Munich, all with his masterful technical skills on display), just that the slide may have begun. We'll see after his next picture. I can't think right now, nor do I care enough to delve into it, but has Spiels ever released two consecutive stinkers?

Sadly, this is the first movie where Ive come out thinking that Spielberg may finally be losing his touch.

You never saw The Terminal? <shudder>

Nope, missed that one. I fucking loathe Tom Hanks, so I pretty much skip all his shit.

yer back on my good list, solo. :thumbsup

 

[TVC15]

I think there was potential with doing a Chariots of the Gods style movie.  The big mistake was that they basically confirm LOL ALIENS within five minutes of the movie starting.  If you want me to swallow this shit happily, you have to at least throw some doubt in, make it ambiguous.  Otherwise there's really no mystery.

Also

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Indy being at Roswell is so fucking distinguished mentally-challenged.  Why would the fucking government want an archaeologist there?

[close]

At least the opening was awesome, the mine cart scene was great and I thought the heart stuff was kind of cool too.

Yeah, I like the beginning and endings.  That middle part is just kinda sour.

[The Fake Shemp]

Lucas is the master of subtlety and science fiction, Keith.

Considering that plot device was such a huge hold up for Spielberg and Ford - I'd like to see what Lucas originally tried to sell them on before inevitably breaking them down.  Was there a musical number involving aliens from Close Encounters?  Did Martians originally try to hijack the Ark to make an intergalactic weapon of destruction?  What?

There must of been something so absurd that was pitched for Spielberg and Ford to feel that the end product represented the best possible representation of Lucas idea for LOL ALIENS.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Things wrong with INDY IV

1. Russian army in america. LoLWUT?
2. They throw the 50s in your face. Look a soda bar. Look Shia is the fonze.
3. CGI everywhere.
4. Indy survives a 10 mile trip in an airborne refrigerator.
5. No one gives a shit about the bad gal.
6. Who is Mack?
7. Who is Oxley?
8. Why is the dialogue between mutt and Indy so terrible.
9. A story that made no fucking since. Why would Oxley return the crystal skull upon failing the first time, only for him to succeed the second time and not doing anything differently.
10. The crystal skulls were fucking stupid to begin with.
11. A tin can boat survives falling from 3 Niagara water falls.
12. The FBI is onto Indy yet we never see the FBI again.
13. Indy's dad died even though he drank from the Holy grail.
14. Indy survived in the army between this movie and the trilogy even though he was way to old.

15. WHAT THe FUCK HAPPENED TO THE CRYSTAL SKULL THEY TOOK AT AREA 51?? It's like they forgot the beginning even happened?

[FlameOfCallandor]

Considering that plot device was such a huge hold up for Spielberg and Ford - I'd like to see what Lucas originally tried to sell them on before inevitably breaking them down.  Was there a musical number involving aliens from Close Encounters?  Did Martians originally try to hijack the Ark to make an intergalactic weapon of destruction?  What?

Rumor is that the original title of this movie was Indiana Jones and the little green saucer men from mars.

[fistfulofmetal]

I still have to see this movie... I will eventually.

[TVC15]

9. A story that made no fucking since. Why would Oxley return the crystal skull upon failing the first time, only for him to succeed the second time and not doing anything differently.

I was wondering this myself.  I'm assuming I missed something.  But even if I did, Cate Blanchett's character says that they have had multiple alien corpses in the Soviet Union.  Where are those skulls?  And if that is the case, how did she not know about their magnetic properties?

[Solo]

John Hurt's pointless role continues to baffle me. Here is a great actor who you waste in the role of a stammering distinguished mentally-challenged fellow who supplies the most unfunny comedic relief I can remember in a good while.

[AdmiralViscen]

9. A story that made no fucking since. Why would Oxley return the crystal skull upon failing the first time, only for him to succeed the second time and not doing anything differently.

I was wondering this myself.  I'm assuming I missed something.  But even if I did, Cate Blanchett's character says that they have had multiple alien corpses in the Soviet Union.  Where are those skulls?  And if that is the case, how did she not know about their magnetic properties?

She said that not all the corpses had crystal skeletons, some were regular or something.

FoC's post pretty much sinks the movie for me.

[The Fake Shemp]

Lucas: Okay, get this - so like, little green men break into AREA FIFTY-ONE and steal the Ark.  Then, aliens like the ones from Close Encounters - this is an homage to you, Steven! - try to stop them and an all out brawl begins.  That's when we learn that green men are Nazi aliens or rather Nazis were aliens all along!  If they get the Ark back to their mothership in Berlin, they will detonate a device that can blow up the entire world! ... unless Indiana Jones and his son stop them first!

Spielberg: That sounds kind of silly, George.

Ford: Yeah, totally lame idea.

[sometime after FIREWALL]

Lucas: Okay, we'll just make it about communists and ALIEN CRYSTAL SKULLS and his son!

Spielberg: Can we make it about his brother?

Lucas: No.

Ford: I need money.

[TVC15]

John Hurt's pointless role continues to baffle me. Here is a great actor who you waste in the role of a stammering distinguished mentally-challenged fellow who supplies the most unfunny comedic relief I can remember in a good while.

I think I heard someone say this on GAF, but it kinda makes sense:  maybe the John Hurt role was originally going to be the Sean Connery role, and when they couldn't get Connery, they didn't give a fuck about making a real new character, so they just made him the magic man that talks in magical riddles.

[Solo]

Connery has a history of passing over plum roles, but boy, he was on the mark here. Musta been able to smell the stink of this one from Scotland.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Why did Indy try to save Mack at the end right after Mack double crossed Indy. It was the most undramatic thing in movie history. Worse than the gay sailer scene in PJ's King Kong

[AdmiralViscen]

Why did Indy try to save Mack at the end right after Mack double crossed Indy. It was the most undramatic thing in movie history. Worse than the gay sailer scene in PJ's King Kong

Yea, that was distinguished mentally-challenged too. Also, why did Mack just say fuck it and die lol

Also, why did Indy so quickly trust him? And why did Mack lay out the "berlin reference" early on when he had no reason at that time to appear to be on Indy's side? Also why the FUCK did they make him a TRIPLE AGENT but NOT REALLY

Fuck

[Solo]

It wasnt much of an attempt either. He tossed his whip like once and then returned to flashing homoerotic lust gazes at Shia.

[The Fake Shemp]

I would've paid good money to see Indiana Jones & His Brother Stop Communists From Stealing Vague Alien Artifact, but instead we got the Kingdom of The Crystal Skull.

Things that would've made this installment better:

1. Sean Connery
2. Tom Selleck as Indy's brother
3. Opening on Indy's funeral
4. Ending on Indy's funeral
5. Having them find Atlantis rather than Crystal Skulls
6. Firing Lucas

[Solo]

Tom Selleck as Indy drunkard brother is something I could get behind. Indy and the originally conceived Indy together at last? Hells yes!

[FlameOfCallandor]

1. Sean Connery
2. Tom Selleck as Indy's brother
3. Opening on Indy's funeral
4. Ending on Indy's funeral
5. Having them find Atlantis rather than Crystal Skulls
6. Firing Lucas

Was this gonna happen?

[The Fake Shemp]

See, that would've tickled nerd fancy and been awesome.

[The Fake Shemp]

Darabont's draft reportedly gave Indy an alcoholic brother, who would've been played by Tom Selleck or Kevin Costner.  Selleck would've been so awesome.

[TVC15]

What if a grown up Short Round came back as a thai ladyboy?  I'd be buying a second ticket right now.

[Solo]

Its all in the casting though. Selleck = sold. Costner = Solo never watches Indy IV.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Darabont's draft reportedly gave Indy an alcoholic brother, who would've been played by Tom Selleck or Kevin Costner.  Selleck would've been so awesome.

OMG that would have been awesome!

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, Spielberg and Ford liked Darabont's script.  Lucas vetoed it.

Solo is right too.  Selleck as drunken Indy brother would've been so much fun.

[FlameOfCallandor]

What if a grown up Short Round came back as a thai ladyboy?  I'd be buying a second ticket right now.

I wanted to see Short Round again.  

[AdmiralViscen]

Yeah, Spielberg and Ford liked Darabont's script.  Lucas vetoed it.

Solo is right too.  Selleck as drunken Indy brother would've been so much fun.

 :'(

 :'(

[The Fake Shemp]

I think Darabont has gone on record that he won't write anything that he's not planning to direct as a result of being mistreated by George Lucas.

[FlameOfCallandor]

At some point Spielberg and Ford needed to tell Lucas that the prequels sucked.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I really want to know what happened to the crystal skull that the russians took from Area 51 in the beginning.

[AdmiralViscen]

http://www.orble.com/indiana-jones-and-the-kingdom-of-the-crystal-skull-review/

[FlameOfCallandor]

http://www.orble.com/indiana-jones-and-the-kingdom-of-the-crystal-skull-review/

Indy and Shia outwit the Russians thanks to some clever motorcycle hijinx. The chase leads to the campus, where the massive bronze head of Marcus Brody's statue lands on the Russian's crotch. Does the Russian die from this? We don't get to see his face, but it still made the kid in the row ahead of me laugh and cheer and raise his arms.

God I hate fanboys

[FlameOfCallandor]

I just thought of something. The whole last temple scene felt like a dramatized version of the Nickelodeon show, Legend of the Hidden Temple.

[pilonv1]

5. Having them find Atlantis rather than Crystal Skulls

That game ruled

[Howard Alan Treesong]

5. Having them find Atlantis rather than Crystal Skulls

That game ruled

THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING

[FlameOfCallandor]

Indy, Shia, Karen Allen and John Hurt all miraculously get to the top of the valley a few miles away in time to see the pyramid explode into chunks of CGI that spin around in a vast CGI cyclone, and then a big CGI saucer comes out and rises into the CG-sky. They watch it go. Indy says something about knowledge being the euphemism for gold/treasure, even though none of them know anything about what just happened.

so true

[Skiptastic]

Why did Indy try to save Mack at the end right after Mack double crossed Indy. It was the most undramatic thing in movie history. Worse than the gay sailer scene in PJ's King Kong

Indy also tried to help the huge Indian dude on the stone grinder in Temple of Doom.

It's because Indy is a pretty cool guy. He fights Nazis and doesn't afraid of anythign!

[FlameOfCallandor]

Why did Indy try to save Mack at the end right after Mack double crossed Indy. It was the most undramatic thing in movie history. Worse than the gay sailer scene in PJ's King Kong

Indy also tried to help the huge Indian dude on the stone grinder in Temple of Doom.

It's because Indy is a pretty cool guy. He fights Nazis and doesn't afraid of anythign!

True, but the only thing worse than an enemy is a double crosser. 

[FlameOfCallandor]

With 185 Million I could make the greatest movie of all time. It would be a zombie epic.

how original.