The Cattle-Prod Election

[APF]

This article's been making the rounds; cynically argues that despite this primary season being the most exciting and well-reported in modern history, it's also unfolded along predictable and unchanging demographic lines:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v30/n11/print/runc01_.html

[APF]

Certainly, I know it to be true in my own case. From the start, I have wanted Clinton to win, because I decided she was tougher, shrewder, more realistic than her rival. Obama’s rhetoric has always sounded phoney to me, much too good to be true: so sweetly sincere as to be obviously insincere about the hard grind of daily politics. I also thought she had a considerably better chance of beating McCain in the autumn than he did, whatever the polls might say. What I’ve found is that nothing that has happened since has changed this set of beliefs, and that anything and everything can be accommodated to fit it. As Obama has racked up more votes and delegates, it’s simply evidence of the craziness of the Democratic primary system, so obviously skewed to misrepresent who has the best chance in the general election – no caucuses there! As Obama’s speeches have won countless new admirers, it’s just more evidence of how eager self-selected opinion-formers are to be sweet-talked, not of how ordinary people are likely to vote. As Clinton has shifted her ground and the basis of her campaign, from heir presumptive to picked-on woman to plucky and indefatigable underdog, it’s evidence of just how adaptable and determined she is. A couple of weeks ago, I thought I had reached my limit, as she pushed her bogus gas-tax holiday, accompanied with a side-swipe at economists who said it wouldn’t work (including Paul Krugman, one of the few economists who has been out there making the case for her candidacy). But as I write this, on the morning of the Kentucky and Oregon primaries, even though I know she can’t really win, I still want her to thump Obama in Kentucky and run him close in Oregon, to keep the race alive, and to puncture the awful, gloating presumption of his oh-so-easily pleased supporters. It’s like following a sports team: you know exactly why you want them to win (because of how it will make you feel), long after you’ve stopped thinking about why you chose them in the first place. As the novelist Kurt Andersen (who describes himself as a passionate ‘Obamaphile from the get-go’) has written, ‘My whole life, I’ve never cared about sports, never experienced that intense, emotional, extra-rational rooting interest in any team’s struggle to win the championship. I figure this must be what it feels like to be a hopeful, fretful, stressed-out fan during the Super Bowl or World Series.’

[MrAngryFace]

I supported Clinton a lot more before she went so negative. She's changed her stripes so many times to fit the situation, shes verbally slipped up and said things that should not be said in a democractic primary, and well, I dont respect her as a politician anymore. You can argue all you want about how Obama is the same, but I would argue that if that were true, I wouldn't be supporting him either.

[Eric P]

I supported Clinton a lot more before she went so negative. She's changed her stripes so many times to fit the situation, shes verbally slipped up and said things that should not be said in a democractic primary, and well, I dont respect her as a politician anymore. You can argue all you want about how Obama is the same, but I would argue that if that were true, I wouldn't be supporting him either.

this is pretty much my feelings on the matter

i used to be a clinton supporter years ago

now, not so much

[siamesedreamer]

In a new Rasmussen poll, McCain is trusted more than Obama in regard to the economy, Iraq, and national security. On national security he has a 22 point lead. And its pretty much unchanged since last month.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/issues2/articles/mccain_trusted_more_than_obama_on_economy_iraq_national_security

Can he actually win this thing? Those numbers are mindboggling.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

those numbers don't make any sense...I mean, I'm obviously biased against McCain, but I still can't figure out the thought process that gives Bush a 28% approval rating, yet history's oldest Republican the polling advantage...

[Eric P]

is here where i accuse the respondents of racism?

[MrAngryFace]

The democratic party will probably tear itself apart over the 'I wanna see a woman in the white house/I wanna see a black man in the white house' stuff.

Bitter fanboy tears.

[APF]

McCain is old and Republican, but he also has decades of being labeled as a maverick and crossing over party lines, which apparently resonates with the Electorate nowadays (who knew?!).  Plus AFAIK Rs have always polled stronger when it comes to economic and defense issues.

[Phoenix Dark]

those numbers don't make any sense...I mean, I'm obviously biased against McCain, but I still can't figure out the thought process that gives Bush a 28% approval rating, yet history's oldest Republican the polling advantage...

Because the majority of Americans don't see McCain as a typical republican, which is why Obama's "Bush third term" line isn't going to work.

I started out supporting Hillary for the same reasons mentioned in the article, and I still have many hesitations about Obama. I think Hillary would handily defeat McCain in November if she was currently in Obama's lead position. All McCain has to do to beat Obama is take Penn., Ohio, and Michigan. That's all. I think he's got a good chance in the first two of those states; my state SHOULD go democrat as usual, but the recent polling has me scratching my chin.

Am I saying Obama can't win? Of course not; he's going to put some red states into play and be competitive. But it's not going to be some fucking cake walk, like many of his supporters on GAF seem to believe. And with Hillary actively sabotaging the party who knows what will happen.

But I will say this: if Obama wins I fucking hope Hillary loses her re-election bid, whether it's to Petreus, Rudy, whoever. Her campaign to ruin Obama has been quite disgusting lately. 

[Tauntaun]

The democratic party will probably tear itself apart over the 'I wanna see a woman in the white house/I wanna see a black man in the white house' stuff.

Bitter fanboy tears.

Just as long as Xbox wins.   

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ron Paul is Dreamcast  :'(

[close]

[siamesedreamer]

And with Hillary actively sabotaging the party who knows what will happen. 

There are reports McCain's VP-picking guy was in Alaska this week undoubtedly speaking with Gubna Sarah Palin.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

- 42 years old
- first term Gubna Alaska (approval ratings in the 90s)
- mother of 5 (latest was born last month)
- budget hawk
- strong on ethics
- has stood up to Big Oil
- Pro-life
- Pro-gay rights


What a curveball she would be if McCain put her on the ticket. I think putting a woman on the ticket would be a brilliant move.

[MrAngryFace]

Yeah that'd be a good pick

[Tauntaun]

And with Hillary actively sabotaging the party who knows what will happen. 

There are reports McCain's VP-picking guy was in Alaska this week undoubtedly speaking with Gubna Sarah Palin.

(Image removed from quote.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

- 42 years old
- first term Gubna Alaska (approval ratings in the 90s)
- mother of 5 (latest was born last month)
- budget hawk
- strong on ethics
- has stood up to Big Oil
- Pro-life
- Pro-gay rights


What a curveball she would be if McCain put her on the ticket. I think putting a woman on the ticket would be a brilliant move.

I'd be down with that, if he croaks we get her, tighten dat budget up n'stuff.

[GilloD]

I just don't understand how people can say, "Politics today are completely crooked and I hate them!" and then go on to say, "But I want the candidate who is crooked and can cope". That's the fucking problem, numbskulls. We need a guy who has a new approach because, clearly, the old one isn't working.

[APF]

Bizarro Superman for President.

[Mandark]

A billion lolz for that excerpt.

[patrickula]

Yeah, early on, before I know much about Obama, I started out with about an even opinion of the two dems, I decided I liked Obama more after reading the two candidates' websites and preferred Obama's stances (he had good shit about technology/the internet).  Before too long I also started to see Clinton as more of the establishment, corporate-approved candidate.  But I would have been pretty happy with either candidate, aside from the whole Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton concern.

Then the shit hit the fan and I've gone on to like Obama a fair amount more and Clinton a whooooooole lot less.  My opinion of McCain has declined quite a bit as well, though I still think the Republicans picked the candidate with the best chance.  He's getting pretty fuckin' rusty though, I've been surprised by some of his moronic gaffes.

[Eric P]

Bizarro Superman for President.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Bizarro Superman for President.

[FlameOfCallandor]

The democratic party will probably tear itself apart over the 'I wanna see a woman in the white house/I wanna see a black man in the white house' stuff.

Oh the hilarious Irony.

[FlameOfCallandor]

And with Hillary actively sabotaging the party who knows what will happen. 

There are reports McCain's VP-picking guy was in Alaska this week undoubtedly speaking with Gubna Sarah Palin.

(Image removed from quote.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

- 42 years old
- first term Gubna Alaska (approval ratings in the 90s)
- mother of 5 (latest was born last month)
- budget hawk
- strong on ethics
- has stood up to Big Oil
- Pro-life
- Pro-gay rights


What a curveball she would be if McCain put her on the ticket. I think putting a woman on the ticket would be a brilliant move.

If this happens or he picks Condi Rice the dems can pretty much kiss the white house good bye.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I started out supporting Hillary for the same reasons mentioned in the article, and I still have many hesitations about Obama. I think Hillary would handily defeat McCain in November if she was currently in Obama's lead position. All McCain has to do to beat Obama is take Penn., Ohio, and Michigan. That's all. I think he's got a good chance in the first two of those states; my state SHOULD go democrat as usual, but the recent polling has me scratching my chin.

Then why do republicans want to run against her?

[Human Snorenado]

I started out supporting Hillary for the same reasons mentioned in the article, and I still have many hesitations about Obama. I think Hillary would handily defeat McCain in November if she was currently in Obama's lead position. All McCain has to do to beat Obama is take Penn., Ohio, and Michigan. That's all. I think he's got a good chance in the first two of those states; my state SHOULD go democrat as usual, but the recent polling has me scratching my chin.

Then why do republicans want to run against her?

Maurice is almost as ignorant as you when it comes to politics.

[AdmiralViscen]

You aren't lepered, use the edit button

[Phoenix Dark]

And with Hillary actively sabotaging the party who knows what will happen. 

There are reports McCain's VP-picking guy was in Alaska this week undoubtedly speaking with Gubna Sarah Palin.

(Image removed from quote.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

- 42 years old
- first term Gubna Alaska (approval ratings in the 90s)
- mother of 5 (latest was born last month)
- budget hawk
- strong on ethics
- has stood up to Big Oil
- Pro-life
- Pro-gay rights


What a curveball she would be if McCain put her on the ticket. I think putting a woman on the ticket would be a brilliant move.

Seems like a great pick for independents but a gay rights friendly woman isn't going to sit well with conservatives. They already have problems with McCain as it is.

Rauol/FOC: The GOP isn't scared of Obama anymore. In fact, their strategists are quite giddy for the upcoming race. They've got more than enough dirt on him to attempt to distract people from the real issues, and while Obama has done a great job side stepping shit (Wright, Ayers, flagpin, bitter, etc) we don't know how he'll face off against a far more ruthless opponent with heaps of money and no moral qualms about anything. Obama is a threat to them, perhaps the biggest in a long time.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Rauol/FOC: The GOP isn't scared of Obama anymore. In fact, their strategists are quite giddy for the upcoming race. They've got more than enough dirt on him to attempt to distract people from the real issues, and while Obama has done a great job side stepping shit (Wright, Ayers, flagpin, bitter, etc) we don't know how he'll face off against a far more ruthless opponent with heaps of money and no moral qualms about anything. Obama is a threat to them, perhaps the biggest in a long time.

Where are you getting this from?

[Human Snorenado]

Pee Dee, must I remind you again that you don't know shit about shit?

[Mandark]

Dude, GOP strategists plant stories about how they're looking forward to the election every cycle.  They'd be talking smack about how the Democratic nominee was particularly vulnerable no matter who it was.

Don't put too much stock in it.

[APF]

Yeah, f/e there's a reason you don't see Dems really explaining what a severe and crushing defeat John McCain will experience this year--there's an aspect of lowering expectations to increase the impact of the win, in combination with using fear of a possible defeat to ensure participation.  If it weren't for these concerns, you also wouldn't see Dems embarrassing themselves with this "John McSame" nonsense, nor would Obama be all, "Oh I'll go to Iraq, but not with you stinkypants!! *pbft* " and acting like a two-year-old.

[Phoenix Dark]

Dude, GOP strategists plant stories about how they're looking forward to the election every cycle.  They'd be talking smack about how the Democratic nominee was particularly vulnerable no matter who it was.

Don't put too much stock in it.

That is true* but it's definitely notable that just a few months ago there were loud rumblings that the GOP didn't want to see Obama in November. After the Wright and other stuff they've taken a complete change in tone

*also, I love how whoever wins the dem nomination is arbitrarily declared the "most liberal member of congress/senate/etc" by some right wing group.

[Mandark]

I almost wanted Hillary to turn it around and take the nomination just so the National Journal would have to re-rank everyone and declare her the Most Liberal Senator Evar.

Also I imagine Russ Feingold sweating, adjusting his tie and wondering why he doesn't get no respect.

[Phoenix Dark]

The L Word has been one of the many jabs in the GOP's bag a' tricks, but I don't see it working this year. Seems like the American people (except David Brooks perhaps) have gotten past labels and at least seem interested in real issues this year. But unfortunately for Obama imo people are still susceptible to some bullshit. And what bullshit to distract people than racially charged attacks :/

[APF]

I like Commie Supes.  Evil always looks so much cooler than good 

[siamesedreamer]

Rauol/FOC: The GOP isn't scared of Obama anymore.

He has definately lost that mythical aura. But, to say they're no longer scared of him is far from the truth.

It'll probably end up being a lot closer than most of us think - especially when variables like Iraq continue to improve (May is on track to be the least deadliest for US troops since the invasion).

But, then you have stuff like this:

[youtube=425,350]l4vlBgh7KLg&eurl[/youtube]

[Van Cruncheon]

i just want to express my continuing love for nancy pelosi

[Human Snorenado]

i just want to express my continuing love for nancy pelosi

She's the real alpha female in the party!  Funnily enough, she's also far closer to the Presidency than Hillary Clinton will ever be!