PRIMARIES: THE FINAL SHOWDOWN

[siamesedreamer]

Ignoring that social programs have a tangible benefit for millions of Americans

Never said they didn't. In fact, it can be argued that virtually all of the money paid out to SS recipients is pumped right back into the economy.

But, the fact of the matter is that the numbers don't add up and we are in serious trouble when it comes to paying for these programs. To say that they can be easily reformed like Willco is suggesting ignores reality. They're the most politically untouchable programs ever. This is easily seen by the fact that Medicare goes bankrupt in nine short years (2017) and nobody on either side wants to touch it. Its not hard to imagine what would happen if 300 million+ people are given "free" healthcare/insurance and then are told they have to give it up/have their benefits slashed.

[AdmiralViscen]

So what you're saying is Barack Obama is going to totally ignore the Social Security problem that has been an open talking point for at least a couple of years now and he's already spoken openly about several times in this campaign?

I don't see how the McCain alternative is going to solve anything you just said but I do see how he will bumble around like an asshole and pump huge amounts of money into a war we're always 6 more months away from winning.

[huckleberry]

That is a good point about Social Security sd, but it doesn't change the fact that many people are pretty wary of Republicans (and Democrats to an extent) calling for cuts in the social benefits programs.  


As far as noone wanting to 'fix' Medicare...old people vote....that shit will never be touched. (nothing you don't already know)

[siamesedreamer]

So what you're saying is Barack Obama is going to totally ignore the Social Security problem...

I don't know what he's going to do. But, the idea that he'll be working with a huge DEM majority in Congress gives me great pause. Not even Reagan had that luxury with the Greenspan Commission.

Its not that I don't trust Obama. I just don't trust Pelosi and her wing of the party. My hope is that Obama will end up being more of a centrist like Clinton. I'm not holding my breath though. There's more of a chance than not that he'll overplay his hand.

[AdmiralViscen]

I don't get teh bonar for this forthcoming Dem supermajority either, but like Willco said maybe it's what is required to purge this country from an 8 year spiral.

[Mandark]

Here's the thing about SS and Medicare.

We're gonna have a lot of old people in the future.  They will have material and medical needs.  Dismantling the safety net doesn't change this; it just changes how we pay for it as a society.

If you talk about the need to severely cut those programs, you need to explain why it's okay for seniors to have a much lower standard of living and medical care and/or why it's fair for the burden of senior care to be shifted to their adult children.




PS No "ZOMG bankrupt in 20XX" stuff when by that standard the discretionary/military part of the budget is already "bankrupt".

[siamesedreamer]

The burden of the boomer Medicare costs has already been shifted to their adult children, adolescent grand children, unborn great grand children, and unborn great great grand children. 

[Mandark]

OTOH future generations are richer by almost every economic metric and we all get to enjoy the infrastructure that was built and paid for before our own adulthoods.

The point remains:  This isn't a SS/Medicare crunch.  This is a sick old person crunch and paying for it through private markets rather than the government does NOTHING to take the economic strain off our society.  So what's there to bitch about?

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I can't wait til Hillary gets over herself and starts supporting Obama

it'll be like when Samuel L. Jackson and Kevin Spacey teamed up in The Negotiator

[duckman2000]

If you talk about the need to severely cut those programs, you need to explain why it's okay for seniors to have a much lower standard of living and medical care and/or why it's fair for the burden of senior care to be shifted to their adult children.

Because they are old bastards and have earned their seats in their lower tar pits by the sins of their lives. If it was up to me, I'd re-introduce the ättestupa system. I'd also make sure that the government got in on the military contracting deal on an official level, so that we could on some level go back to good old fashioned blatant pillaging, to follow the razing. Books for war!

[The Fake Shemp]

Except it won't suck!

Goddammit, duckman, you ruined my reply.

[Mandark]

Yeah, it'd be cooler if they teamed up like Russel Crowe and Guy Pearce in L.A. Confidential.

[The Fake Shemp]

Or Xtreme Goblin and Spider-Man in Spider-Man 3!

[Howard Alan Treesong]

or Citizen Kane and Rosebud in Citizen Kane 2: The Revenge!

[The Fake Shemp]

Or the RMS Titanic and Jack Dawson in Titanic 2: Jack's Back!

[Howard Alan Treesong]

or Donnie Darko and airplane engines in Donnie Darko!

[The Fake Shemp]

Or Steven Segal and that exploding stealth bomber in Executive Decision

[Howard Alan Treesong]

[Mandark]

I don't think anything will beat McCain's speech when he basically clinched the nomination with John Warner behind him and a bunch of other old honkeys in suits surrounding him.

[The Fake Shemp]

Mandark, what will you do when McCain is President?  I've made my peace with that likely scenario.

[MrAngryFace]

For me, McCain will probably keep doing somethings I dont like, but even most of the GOP knows you cant do what bush has been doing again, and i think that will help a lot.

I mean none of these people aside from huckabee, looks as potentially dangerous as Bush

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, I keep thinking it can't get much worse or else we'll vote all the Republican representatives out of office.

[Fragamemnon]

See Federwang?  Now do you see?  It can't be reasoned with.  It can't be bargained with.  It can't be talked to rationally in any way, shape or form.  It WILL suck up hours of your time debating absolutely pointless shit and never concede a point even though you've linked to facts supporting your arguments. 

This is true for most libertarians. Until we as a society can go about getting our purge on-I know I've got a little bit of the Comrade in me!-all you can do is mock them incessantly and ignore their bankrupt "reasoning".

[Howard Alan Treesong]

have you accepted Ron Paul as your personal candidate and representative?

[The Fake Shemp]

Ron Paul conceded the nomination for our sins.

[Mandark]

Mandark, what will you do when McCain is President?  I've made my peace with that likely scenario.

Since February I've been saying "President McCain, President John McCain" out loud to get used to the idea.

I figure a Democratic Congress would mostly keep him in check and even though I don't think terribly much of him as a politician, I won't have that depressing "How can we elect this asshole!?" feeling I had in 2004.  Plus I suspect whoever wins won't be able to stop some real economic pain over the next couple years.

I kind of worry about him appointing Supreme Court justices, though.  A few of the current ones make him look young.

[Eric P]

HillaryIs44:

We can’t let this site die - we need to go into scorched earth mode. It will require posting as a Dem not aligned with Hill but against Obama, without being overt.

Like “I am a Democrat, but I have reservations about Obama. I’m just not sure he is ready to be president. I am worried about his ties to radicals and if he could provide security for me and my family. He seems to be a nice guy, but, I have worries. Safety for my family comes before all else..”

You get the idea. Fan out to every news site available.

he's a nice candidate, but i wouldn't let me daughter vote for him

[Eric P]

So what if Obama wins and turns out to be a terrible President?  How many decades do you think it will be before whitey decides to trust another brown skinned President?

that was something i was actually musing on

but fuck it we have short term memories

it only took us 8 years to let another bush into the white house


twice

[Rman]

Thank God, this stage is over.  Onto the title bout.

[Tieno]

I'm happy Obama got the nomination. I'm really looking forward to see this fresh wind in the White House after those 8 polarizing Bush years.

[APF]

Yeah, I haven't heard of Bush being called the most conservative president either.  I'm sure it was mentioned by someone, but to say the term "most conservative ever" is being thrown around as uselessly and often as "most liberal ever" is laughable.

Who of distinction calls Obama the most liberal politician ever?  No one?  Then what's your point?  You have none?  Then why respond with this?  Because you like being contrary without actually saying anything?  Well I can certainly appreciate that.

[APF]

 

[FlameOfCallandor]

Ignoring that social programs have a tangible benefit for millions of Americans

[Human Snorenado]

Ignoring that social programs have a tangible benefit for millions of Americans

Wonderfully verbose, well thought out response!

[FlameOfCallandor]

Kind of like how NASA has a tangible benefit?

[Eric P]

Kind of like how NASA has a tangible benefit?

if only there were a government mandated publication which detailed all of the consumer applications directly resultant from NASA

oh wait

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/

[Phoenix Dark]

Kind of like how NASA has a tangible benefit?

if only there were a government mandated publication which detailed all of the consumer applications directly resultant from NASA

oh wait

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Kind of like how NASA has a tangible benefit?

god, I wish I could should show my fist as a tangible benefit of NASA

[Crushed]

Kind of like how NASA has a tangible benefit?

if only there were a government mandated publication which detailed all of the consumer applications directly resultant from NASA

oh wait

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/

None of those have the benefits of colloidal silver.

[FlameOfCallandor]

 2006 budget for NASA: approved for $16.456 billion.

All to invent "Noise and Vibration Control" Surely we would be int he dark ages if it weren't for an overly bureaucratic, overly politicized and overly funded government program.

I want my Tang.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Kind of like how NASA has a tangible benefit?

god, I wish I could should show my fist as a tangible benefit of NASA

Are you some sort of cyborg?

[Rman]

Scientific progress ain't cheap, FOC.

[Eric P]

2006 budget for NASA: approved for $16.456 billion.

All to invent "Noise and Vibration Control" Surely we would be int he dark ages if it weren't for an overly bureaucratic, overly politicized and overly funded government program.

I want my Tang.

i now present a well reasoned and thought out response to match the needs of our own Flame of Callandor.

[youtube=425,350]BSqOaLA3ogM[/youtube]

[Crushed]

2006 budget for NASA: approved for $16.456 billion.

All to invent "Noise and Vibration Control" Surely we would be int he dark ages if it weren't for an overly bureaucratic, overly politicized and overly funded government program.

I want my Tang.

hahaha holy shit

why are you still allowed to make posts



hell how are you allowed to be near keyboards

[FlameOfCallandor]

Scientific progress ain't cheap, FOC.

For every invention NASA claims to have made I can name 100 made by private companies. That do it more efficiently and don't waste my money.

[AdmiralViscen]

Kind of like how NASA has a tangible benefit?

No actually this is way more obvious.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Since the Internet began as a spinoff from a publicly-funded government program, I propose that FoC is no longer allowed to use it. It's what he would want.

[Eric P]

Scientific progress ain't cheap, FOC.

For every invention NASA claims to have made I can name 100 made by private companies. That do it more efficiently and don't waste my money.

For one, the automobile.

Why didn't nasa give us that?

The television?

where was nasa in that?

Also, the polio vaccine.

where was nasa in that?

i am starting to see his point guys

[youtube=425,350]BSqOaLA3ogM[/youtube]

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Scientific progress ain't cheap, FOC.

For every invention NASA claims to have made I can name 100 made by private companies. That do it more efficiently and don't waste my money.

PROOF?! I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. I REQUIRE YOU TO LIST ALL 100 INVENTIONS BEFORE I WILL ALLOW YOU TO CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION. IF YOU DO NOT, I WILL POST

[siamesedreamer]

I think its funny both sides think their candidate will lose.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Is this the NASA thread?
There was this awesome TV show on Japanese TV last night where some university professor had used some NASA material to clean up the rivers in China. These rivers had a pH of 10 or something and all the life had died. He used strings of this NASA material and it cleared up pretty much totally, with lots of life coming back gradually. It was very heart-warming. Thank Jesus for NASA!

NASA
the American dollar

[FlameOfCallandor]

I think its funny both sides think their candidate will lose.

The only Obama fans I have seen all think that he will win with 90% One even told me it was the dawn of a new era of america.

[Eric P]

was it industrial waste?

was nasa tech cleaning up private company sludge?

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I think its funny both sides think their candidate will lose.

The only Obama fans I have seen all think that he will win with 90% One even told me it was the dawn of a new era of america.

the dawn was invented by NASA. before NASA, we couldn't see the curvature of the earth.

[Eric P]

was it industrial waste?

was nasa tech cleaning up private company sludge?

YES!
You know the process?

that's really neat.

i don't know the process, though i kind of wish i did

i know we have things like microbes which eat oil and stuff and have for decades (i remember reading about them in relation to the Valdez spill) so i would love to know how the technology has advanced

[Eric P]

I think its funny both sides think their candidate will lose.

The only Obama fans I have seen all think that he will win with 90% One even told me it was the dawn of a new era of america.

well, i'm worried that he'll lose too.  Are you mistaking hope for belief?  I hope the Tigers win the World Series, but I believe they'll win 50 games instead.

i'm open to the nationals winning

[AdmiralViscen]

I think its funny both sides think their candidate will lose.

The only Obama fans I have seen all think that he will win with 90% One even told me it was the dawn of a new era of america.

Uh there are at least 2 or 3 Obama supporters in this thread who have acknowledged that McCain can win.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I think its funny both sides think their candidate will lose.

The only Obama fans I have seen all think that he will win with 90% One even told me it was the dawn of a new era of america.

Uh there are at least 2 or 3 Obama supporters in this thread who have acknowledged that McCain can win.

I'm talking about real life.

[Crushed]

I think its funny both sides think their candidate will lose.

The only Obama fans I have seen all think that he will win with 90% One even told me it was the dawn of a new era of america.

Uh there are at least 2 or 3 Obama supporters in this thread who have acknowledged that McCain can win.

I'm talking about real life.

the internet is not real world it is fake world

internet + nasa + gold = TIMECUBE


do not be stupid fake, be real man

[Van Cruncheon]

foc is cornered stupid, he believes in false ayn rand god of four sides