Metal Gear Solid 4: THE OFFICIAL GAMEPLAY THREAD. Open season on spoilers!

[Tieno]

Just rented it and played for an hour or 2-3, still on Act 1. Really like it, gameplay and control is way better than in MGS2 (which I also played) and damn the art and graphics are so good and consistent. Clear image quality too. Really pretty.

What was that 1 million dollar intro? Was it supposed to be really short?

[Smooth Groove]

Just rented it and played for an hour or 2-3, still on Act 1. Really like it, gameplay and control is way better than in MGS2 (which I also played) and damn the art and graphics are so good and consistent. Clear image quality too. Really pretty.

What was that 1 million dollar intro? Was it supposed to be really short?

I think it's all those TV shows. 

[Vrolokus]

Just rented it and played for an hour or 2-3, still on Act 1. Really like it, gameplay and control is way better than in MGS2 (which I also played) and damn the art and graphics are so good and consistent. Clear image quality too. Really pretty.

What was that 1 million dollar intro? Was it supposed to be really short?

There are a few, you don't see all of them.  I saw different ones during my replay, which was at a different difficulty - so I don't know if difficulty affects it, or number of playthroughs, or if it's just totally random.

[MCD]

Just rented it and played for an hour or 2-3, still on Act 1. Really like it, gameplay and control is way better than in MGS2 (which I also played) and damn the art and graphics are so good and consistent. Clear image quality too. Really pretty.

What was that 1 million dollar intro? Was it supposed to be really short?

There are a few, you don't see all of them.  I saw different ones during my replay, which was at a different difficulty - so I don't know if difficulty affects it, or number of playthroughs, or if it's just totally random.

when you start a new game, you will see one (it's random.)

there you can press buttons and switch between them like switching between tv channels.

i tried turning them off and just start the game but no luck.

[drohne]

some of those filmed shorts are kind of great, and it's a shame you can't easily watch them unless you've got the making-of bd

[demi]

Ignore my last post about having MGS4, I didnt catch up with my friend, but tonight I'm hoping to get his PS3 this weekend

[fistfulofmetal]

Big Boss Hard = Serious business. 

took me an hour to get through the scene right before you get the MkII and silenced tranq gun.  It was so fucking fun though...except that one time where I almost had it, pressed triangle to flatten on the ground, and a collision issue with a nearby garbage can caused snake to stand up and get caught. >_<


I have a feeling the fun is over now that I have a silenced gun...maybe I should go straight to extreme.

The harder difficulties transform the mostly bland act 3 into a completely different beast. The resistance guy went in a completely different route - into the canals, and it got real hard real quick. Probably the most pure stealth act there is on the higher difficulty.

[cool breeze]

some of those filmed shorts are kind of great, and it's a shame you can't easily watch them unless you've got the making-of bd

I had no idea what the hell was going on when I first booted up the game, so if that was the reaction Kojima was going for, then he got me good.  I got the fitness ad one. 

[Tieno]

The game is a lot better than I expected. I really like the tracking mission, very nicely done. Catching other camo-guys, caught one dude setting up a trap, shot it and it blow up in his face. Hehehehe

[Tieno]

The ending leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It was all so great and fantastic with Snake getting mercilessly beaten up and cooked alive, his suit all in shambles (am I using it right?), which looked really really cool, the fight with Liquid, snake offing himself...then they put in the Rose hospital BS and the marrying and big boss all of a sudden comes up after the credits and takes away the nice ending of Snake killing himself...bah.
I'll try to erase that from my mind.

Also, nanomachines!

Anyway, I really liked the game, some really cool gameplay moments too. Actually enjoyed playing the game in this one (better controls and all) as opposed to MGS2. Great job Kojima, you improved on 'everything' (gameplay, less corny, good voice acting, better cutscenes (MGS2 tried way too hard sometimes))

[Mupepe]

I still haven't seen the entire end cutscene 

[Positive Touch]

it's better to avoid watching all of it.  just pretend it ended the way you wanted it to 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

sorry, not to get back into the mgs4 thing, but i saw another one of those 'mgs would be laughed out of a movie theater' posts on gaf -- from somebody whose english makes me hope he's foreign. how servile that line of thought is...not 'i laugh at it,' but 'an "average" movie audience would laugh at it.' if you really want to drive a point home, invent and then join a mob. mgs bashers can't be boors alone, they have to be boors en masse -- and i bet they are the sort of people who laugh and jeer and flatulate in the direction of movies that displease them

i mean...i can easily imagine a game enthusiast who bashes mgs and is not a smug philistine, but how often do you encounter such a creature

You know, it goes both ways.  I always get a chuckle at the people that defend MGS's story as somehow being above the critics' comprehension and that we somehow miss the supposedly deep undertones of the plot.  I just can't even believe people would be so blind to the fact that MGS is just piss poor storytelling.  All the "you're too stupid!" comments just boggles the mind. IMO most of the obscene smugness and outright elitism is coming from the people with snake avatars and codec frequency tattoos.

And yeah, I have no doubt that unless they completely (and I mean COMPLETELY) retool the MGS storyline it'd make for an outright horrible movie.  Attack of the Clones level bad. 

[CurseoftheGods]

Guys, you do know that those TV commercials play randomly if you don't press anything at the start screen, right? I've seen all of them.

Some of them were really impressive.

[Mupepe]

i don't think the story is like above your head awesome but i think it's like anime awesome.  some people don't get giant robot anime (me) but some people love it.  it's just a very selective taste.  it's nonsensical and over the top which is why i love it although from what i've seen of the ending cutscene, it's pretty terrible.  but i really love the rest of the game

[recursivelyenumerable]

Kojima doesn't have a programming background at all.  He majored in economics, and was hired by Konami as a planner (game designer).

oh well, whatever.  in any case, somebody at Konami has really awkward taste. 

It's really a myth that most directors/scenario writers for games come from programming backgrounds.  At least in Japan, they usually come up through either the planning or graphic design depts.  I think in the US it's less common to even have a planning department, though, or at least they don't call it that.

[JustinP]

You know, it goes both ways.  I always get a chuckle at the people that defend MGS's story as somehow being above the critics' comprehension and that we somehow miss the supposedly deep undertones of the plot.  I just can't even believe people would be so blind to the fact that MGS is just piss poor storytelling.  All the "you're too stupid!" comments just boggles the mind. IMO most of the obscene smugness and outright elitism is coming from the people with snake avatars and codec frequency tattoos.

And yeah, I have no doubt that unless they completely (and I mean COMPLETELY) retool the MGS storyline it'd make for an outright horrible movie.  Attack of the Clones level bad. 

but do you honestly not see how MGS4's story is more than just snake versus the bad guys?  i think it's kinda silly when people make claims thrashing all over MGS games' story when they only seem to consider what's on the surface--they take it too literally. 

MGS4 is more fresh on my mind so i'll stick with that without going into the other games.  kojima likes metaphors though, and i don't think people are used to having strong metaphors in games yet.  when you take MGS4 by face value, it's definitely ridiculous.  we could list plenty of ridiculous elements to MGS4, but i want to mention one in particular.  i'd listen on 1up yours as shawn would argue against the logistics and viability of a future with PMCs like in MGS4; yeah, PMCs can't really exist like that.  but i don't think that's the point.  i think PMC soldiers were more a metaphor. 

it seemed pretty obvious to me at the time and i'm sure i could draw specific examples if i went and played through it again, but i saw a lot of metaphors to the current gaming industry/community.  the PMC soldiers are a metaphor for the forum soldiers you see on any given gaming forum.  PMC soldiers fight endless proxy battles for their company much like forum soldiers endlessly argue for their company.  several times, i saw kojima represented in snake.  snake is upset with the current war industry in the game--kojima seems upset over the games industry.  snake mentions that "war has changed" and that war is no longer about ideologies, profit, ethnicity, or resources (these are what all wars typically result from).  you can compare that to the game industry and how it's also changed.  while you could argue it's just people being lost in nostalgia, it's not uncommon for people to think the game industry has changed--going from being about delivering deep gameplay experiences to now being more about the profits and metacritic scores.  snake is old and tired.  kojima seems to be tired of doing MGS games. 

and some people will try to break this metaphor by bringing up examples where it doesn't necessarily work on the same level in every area--but that's not how metaphors work.  metaphors don't have to obey strict rules or be 100% consistent throughout.  metaphors can adapt, change, and morph.  metaphors can take on multiple meanings.  and these aren't really high-level concepts or anything...  metaphors are pretty basic in literature.  i just don't think people are used to seeing them in games. 

i don't think MGS4 is purely a metaphor--i don't think kojima is just making a statement or whatever.  he's also interested in delivering an entertaining story, and i think he succeeds there.  if it were translated into a movie, i think there'd have to be a lot of retooling, but not necessarily with the story--they'd have to retool the delivery.  i don't necessarily think MGS games are "genius" but they're undoubtedly up near the top when it comes to video game stories.  they're some of the only games that even make an attempt to be more than just good guy vs bad guys. 

[Crushed]

You know, it goes both ways.  I always get a chuckle at the people that defend MGS's story as somehow being above the critics' comprehension and that we somehow miss the supposedly deep undertones of the plot.  I just can't even believe people would be so blind to the fact that MGS is just piss poor storytelling.  All the "you're too stupid!" comments just boggles the mind. IMO most of the obscene smugness and outright elitism is coming from the people with snake avatars and codec frequency tattoos.

And yeah, I have no doubt that unless they completely (and I mean COMPLETELY) retool the MGS storyline it'd make for an outright horrible movie.  Attack of the Clones level bad. 

but do you honestly not see how MGS4's story is more than just snake versus the bad guys?  i think it's kinda silly when people make claims thrashing all over MGS games' story when they only seem to consider what's on the surface--they take it too literally. 

MGS4 is more fresh on my mind so i'll stick with that without going into the other games.  kojima likes metaphors though, and i don't think people are used to having strong metaphors in games yet.  when you take MGS4 by face value, it's definitely ridiculous.  we could list plenty of ridiculous elements to MGS4, but i want to mention one in particular.  i'd listen on 1up yours as shawn would argue against the logistics and viability of a future with PMCs like in MGS4; yeah, PMCs can't really exist like that.  but i don't think that's the point.  i think PMC soldiers were more a metaphor. 

it seemed pretty obvious to me at the time and i'm sure i could draw specific examples if i went and played through it again, but i saw a lot of metaphors to the current gaming industry/community.  the PMC soldiers are a metaphor for the forum soldiers you see on any given gaming forum.  PMC soldiers fight endless proxy battles for their company much like forum soldiers endlessly argue for their company.  several times, i saw kojima represented in snake.  snake is upset with the current war industry in the game--kojima seems upset over the games industry.  snake mentions that "war has changed" and that war is no longer about ideologies, profit, ethnicity, or resources (these are what all wars typically result from).  you can compare that to the game industry and how it's also changed.  while you could argue it's just people being lost in nostalgia, it's not uncommon for people to think the game industry has changed--going from being about delivering deep gameplay experiences to now being more about the profits and metacritic scores.  snake is old and tired.  kojima seems to be tired of doing MGS games. 

and some people will try to break this metaphor by bringing up examples where it doesn't necessarily work on the same level in every area--but that's not how metaphors work.  metaphors don't have to obey strict rules or be 100% consistent throughout.  metaphors can adapt, change, and morph.  metaphors can take on multiple meanings. 

i don't think MGS4 is purely a metaphor--i don't think kojima is just making a statement or whatever.  he's also interested in delivering an entertaining story, and i think he succeeds there. 

[JustinP]

(Image removed from quote.)

steamy

[Tieno]

You know, it goes both ways.  I always get a chuckle at the people that defend MGS's story as somehow being above the critics' comprehension and that we somehow miss the supposedly deep undertones of the plot.  I just can't even believe people would be so blind to the fact that MGS is just piss poor storytelling.  All the "you're too stupid!" comments just boggles the mind. IMO most of the obscene smugness and outright elitism is coming from the people with snake avatars and codec frequency tattoos.

And yeah, I have no doubt that unless they completely (and I mean COMPLETELY) retool the MGS storyline it'd make for an outright horrible movie.  Attack of the Clones level bad. 

but do you honestly not see how MGS4's story is more than just snake versus the bad guys?  i think it's kinda silly when people make claims thrashing all over MGS games' story when they only seem to consider what's on the surface--they take it too literally. 

MGS4 is more fresh on my mind so i'll stick with that without going into the other games.  kojima likes metaphors though, and i don't think people are used to having strong metaphors in games yet.  when you take MGS4 by face value, it's definitely ridiculous.  we could list plenty of ridiculous elements to MGS4, but i want to mention one in particular.  i'd listen on 1up yours as shawn would argue against the logistics and viability of a future with PMCs like in MGS4; yeah, PMCs can't really exist like that.  but i don't think that's the point.  i think PMC soldiers were more a metaphor. 

it seemed pretty obvious to me at the time and i'm sure i could draw specific examples if i went and played through it again, but i saw a lot of metaphors to the current gaming industry/community.  the PMC soldiers are a metaphor for the forum soldiers you see on any given gaming forum.  PMC soldiers fight endless proxy battles for their company much like forum soldiers endlessly argue for their company.  several times, i saw kojima represented in snake.  snake is upset with the current war industry in the game--kojima seems upset over the games industry.  snake mentions that "war has changed" and that war is no longer about ideologies, profit, ethnicity, or resources (these are what all wars typically result from).  you can compare that to the game industry and how it's also changed.  while you could argue it's just people being lost in nostalgia, it's not uncommon for people to think the game industry has changed--going from being about delivering deep gameplay experiences to now being more about the profits and metacritic scores.  snake is old and tired.  kojima seems to be tired of doing MGS games. 

and some people will try to break this metaphor by bringing up examples where it doesn't necessarily work on the same level in every area--but that's not how metaphors work.  metaphors don't have to obey strict rules or be 100% consistent throughout.  metaphors can adapt, change, and morph.  metaphors can take on multiple meanings.  and these aren't really high-level concepts or anything...  metaphors are pretty basic in literature.  i just don't think people are used to seeing them in games. 

i don't think MGS4 is purely a metaphor--i don't think kojima is just making a statement or whatever.  he's also interested in delivering an entertaining story, and i think he succeeds there.  if it were translated into a movie, i think there'd have to be a lot of retooling, but not necessarily with the story--they'd have to retool the delivery.  i don't necessarily think MGS games are "genius" but they're undoubtedly up near the top when it comes to video game stories.  they're some of the only games that even make an attempt to be more than just good guy vs bad guys. 

Metaphor for the console wars? Really? Console wars changed? Really? I hope you're wrong because that sounds awful or did you hear Shame Bettenhausen say this?
I think the aging and obsolete theme/metaphor whatever in the game is far more meaningful. To the point that Dyack would probably call the game "MGS4: Too Old"

[JustinP]

Metaphor for the console wars? Really? Console wars changed? Really? I hope you're wrong because that sounds awful or did you hear Shame Bettenhausen say this?

the idea might have been brought up in the past but i dont' remember where or by whom. 

but hasn't the console industry changed?  the internet serves as the 'war economy' making the change possible.  i mean, you could say NES/genesis fanboys would be doing the same thing if there were accessible forums like there are today, but that wasn't the case.  it was different back then.  aggregate review score sites like metacritic didn't exist back then but they are an integral part of the decision making process for many publishers. 

and even if it wasn't that different, it's the idea that is important.  the idea that the game industry was once upon a time a better place, or at least a different place, is an idea that is echoed often by many. 

and using the console industry as a theme may seem shallow, but i think it's a great theme when you consider it is relatable and relevant to the creators and everyone who plays the game.  it might not be "deep" or heavily philosophical, but it's at least social commentary--and fairly legitimate social commentary at that.  and that's still more than most games attempt to do with their story. 

MGS games have issues (though i wouldn't say they stop them from being great games), but they are far more aspiring than 99% of the stuff out there.  many people see value in that. 

I think the aging and obsolete theme/metaphor whatever in the game is far more meaningful. To the point that Dyack would probably call the game "MGS4: Too Old"

i looked at that more like kojima is relating his role in the MGS series to snake.  snake is dying and moving on to the after life--kojima is putting his role as lead to bed and moving on to other projects.  snake is free from war.  kojima is free from MGS. 

but like i said in my first post -- i think metaphors can be ambiguous and often have multiple meanings. 

[Mupepe]

while I respect your opinion JustinP, I hope you're wrong. 

that would actually make me think less of the story.  it's a non-sensical over the top circle jerk for fans, just the way I like it. 

[JustinP]

while I respect your opinion JustinP, I hope you're wrong. 

that would actually make me think less of the story.  it's a non-sensical over the top circle jerk for fans, just the way I like it. 

it's a non-sensical over the top circle jerk for fans regardless

[Mupepe]

yeah, but it makes worse to think that there was actually a veiled intended meaning of console war stupidity

[Mr. Gundam]

Finally beat it, and am thoroughly satisfied with how things were wrapped up.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Meryl looked freakishly buff in her wedding dress, though. Bigger than Johnny!

[close]

However, I finished the game thinking "Ok, they answered every damn question, but I still don't know what happened with The Boss' child!" Did I totally ignore some huge reveal along the way that said the child was

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Adam/Revolver Ocelot

[close]

? I had it finally explained for me in that MGS Encyclopedia thingy.

[Positive Touch]

they explained that in an optional conversation w/Eva in MGS3

[dark1x]

Having replayed the game, I must say that the gameplay/cutscene ratio really is pretty out of control.  If anyone has played Dreamfall - The Longest Journey, I'd say that MGS4 actually comes reasonably close to matching it in that regard.  Of course, Dreamfall basically had no gameplay, yet I still somehow enjoyed it.   

I can't deny that all of the goofball shit really does make MGS4 a memorable experience.  It may not all have been for the better, but it is kind of neat to play something where it seems pretty clear that the creator just went crazy and did whatever the hell he wanted (again, generally not a good thing).  It's a shame the game could not have reached its full potential, but the experience was still enjoyable.

[Narag]

You know, it goes both ways.  I always get a chuckle at the people that defend MGS's story as somehow being above the critics' comprehension and that we somehow miss the supposedly deep undertones of the plot.  I just can't even believe people would be so blind to the fact that MGS is just piss poor storytelling.  All the "you're too stupid!" comments just boggles the mind. IMO most of the obscene smugness and outright elitism is coming from the people with snake avatars and codec frequency tattoos.

And yeah, I have no doubt that unless they completely (and I mean COMPLETELY) retool the MGS storyline it'd make for an outright horrible movie.  Attack of the Clones level bad. 

but do you honestly not see how MGS4's story is more than just snake versus the bad guys?  i think it's kinda silly when people make claims thrashing all over MGS games' story when they only seem to consider what's on the surface--they take it too literally. 

MGS4 is more fresh on my mind so i'll stick with that without going into the other games.  kojima likes metaphors though, and i don't think people are used to having strong metaphors in games yet.  when you take MGS4 by face value, it's definitely ridiculous.  we could list plenty of ridiculous elements to MGS4, but i want to mention one in particular.  i'd listen on 1up yours as shawn would argue against the logistics and viability of a future with PMCs like in MGS4; yeah, PMCs can't really exist like that.  but i don't think that's the point.  i think PMC soldiers were more a metaphor. 

it seemed pretty obvious to me at the time and i'm sure i could draw specific examples if i went and played through it again, but i saw a lot of metaphors to the current gaming industry/community.  the PMC soldiers are a metaphor for the forum soldiers you see on any given gaming forum.  PMC soldiers fight endless proxy battles for their company much like forum soldiers endlessly argue for their company.  several times, i saw kojima represented in snake.  snake is upset with the current war industry in the game--kojima seems upset over the games industry.  snake mentions that "war has changed" and that war is no longer about ideologies, profit, ethnicity, or resources (these are what all wars typically result from).  you can compare that to the game industry and how it's also changed.  while you could argue it's just people being lost in nostalgia, it's not uncommon for people to think the game industry has changed--going from being about delivering deep gameplay experiences to now being more about the profits and metacritic scores.  snake is old and tired.  kojima seems to be tired of doing MGS games. 

and some people will try to break this metaphor by bringing up examples where it doesn't necessarily work on the same level in every area--but that's not how metaphors work.  metaphors don't have to obey strict rules or be 100% consistent throughout.  metaphors can adapt, change, and morph.  metaphors can take on multiple meanings.  and these aren't really high-level concepts or anything...  metaphors are pretty basic in literature.  i just don't think people are used to seeing them in games. 

i don't think MGS4 is purely a metaphor--i don't think kojima is just making a statement or whatever.  he's also interested in delivering an entertaining story, and i think he succeeds there.  if it were translated into a movie, i think there'd have to be a lot of retooling, but not necessarily with the story--they'd have to retool the delivery.  i don't necessarily think MGS games are "genius" but they're undoubtedly up near the top when it comes to video game stories.  they're some of the only games that even make an attempt to be more than just good guy vs bad guys. 

Metaphor for the console wars? Really? Console wars changed? Really? I hope you're wrong because that sounds awful or did you hear Shame Bettenhausen say this?
I think the aging and obsolete theme/metaphor whatever in the game is far more meaningful. To the point that Dyack would probably call the game "MGS4: Too Old"

Someone made this theory about MGS4 being about the console wars/forums on GAF when the second trailer or whatever that showcased the ending scene from Act I was released.

[Positive Touch]

i am blown away by the thought that someone could honestly believe that a person would try to write a story that could be a metaphor for fucking CONSOLE WARS

[JustinP]

i am blown away by the thought that someone could honestly believe that a person would try to write a story that could be a metaphor for fucking CONSOLE WARS

i'm blown away by the thought that some people are so resistant to the thought that someone might write a story that also touches on social commentary and that the social commentary might be related to the giant industry that not only the writer is a part of, but his entire audience can take part and relate to.  this is not that unusual for art, but again, this is unusual in games.  this is why some people argue that MGS games are postmodern games. 

after all, this would be similar to what Andy Warhol did to the art world. 

[Vrolokus]

Frankly, I think "postmodern" is a label more often slapped on shitty art in an attempt to justify its shittiness than art that's actually postmodern.

[JustinP]

Frankly, I think "postmodern" is a label more often slapped on shitty art in an attempt to justify its shittiness than art that's actually postmodern.

k

[Pharmacy]

there is nothing good about mgs4's story, kojima makes up some bullshit story a naruto hentai loving teen would write for a highschool project, people get into a circlejerk over him and then he gets caught up in his own fucking ego because everyones busy wanking him off

FUCK MGS. ITS SHIT. complicated controls, SHITTY online with ridiculously complicated menus (tconfusing tech menu with loads of crap options????its like a mech anime kojima god!!!!!!!!!!!w00)t) its not even fucking fun. stealth???????? fuck right off i wanna shoot people all guns blazing thats what videogames are about

does duke nukem use stealth? does doom guy use stealth? no and guess what they are badasses!!!!!!!!!!!!! fuck mgs w00t 420 smoek weed everyday weed owns

[Mupepe]

there is nothing good about mgs4's story, kojima makes up some bullshit story a naruto hentai loving teen would write for a highschool project, people get into a circlejerk over him and then he gets caught up in his own fucking ego because everyones busy wanking him off

FUCK MGS. ITS SHIT. complicated controls, SHITTY online with ridiculously complicated menus (tconfusing tech menu with loads of crap options????its like a mech anime kojima god!!!!!!!!!!!w00)t) its not even fucking fun. stealth?? fuck right off i wanna shoot people all guns blazing thats what videogames are about

does duke nukem use stealth? does doom guy use stealth? no and guess what they are badasses!!!!!!!!!!!!! fuck mgs w00t 420 smoek weed everyday weed owns

^^I don't know what that was but no more please.

anyways, mgs haters suck a big fat dick

[Pharmacy]

there is nothing good about mgs4's story, kojima makes up some bullshit story a naruto hentai loving teen would write for a highschool project, people get into a circlejerk over him and then he gets caught up in his own fucking ego because everyones busy wanking him off

FUCK MGS. ITS SHIT. complicated controls, SHITTY online with ridiculously complicated menus (tconfusing tech menu with loads of crap options????its like a mech anime kojima god!!!!!!!!!!!w00)t) its not even fucking fun. stealth?? fuck right off i wanna shoot people all guns blazing thats what videogames are about

does duke nukem use stealth? does doom guy use stealth? no and guess what they are badasses!!!!!!!!!!!!! fuck mgs w00t 420 smoek weed everyday weed owns

^^I don't know what that was but no more please.

anyways, mgs haters suck a big fat dick

ur an anime cigarillo

ahahahahaha owned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Crushed]

i swear to god pharamacy if i don't believe in using ignore lists like a taco but you almost make the case

[JustinP]

there is nothing good about mgs4's story, kojima makes up some bullshit story a naruto hentai loving teen would write for a highschool project, people get into a circlejerk over him and then he gets caught up in his own fucking ego because everyones busy wanking him off

FUCK MGS. ITS SHIT. complicated controls, SHITTY online with ridiculously complicated menus (tconfusing tech menu with loads of crap options????its like a mech anime kojima god!!!!!!!!!!!w00)t) its not even fucking fun. stealth?? fuck right off i wanna shoot people all guns blazing thats what videogames are about

does duke nukem use stealth? does doom guy use stealth? no and guess what they are badasses!!!!!!!!!!!!! fuck mgs w00t 420 smoek weed everyday weed owns

spoiler (click to show/hide)

i assume you were joking

[close]

[Crushed]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

i assume you were joking

[close]

You've never read Pharmacy's past posts.

[FatalT]

Finished my no kills, no health items, and no alerts run in 4 and a half hours. Did it on the easiest difficulty but I still unlocked the stealth camouflage and bandanna.

[Tieno]

Finished my no kills, no health items, and no alerts run in 4 and a half hours. Did it on the easiest difficulty but I still unlocked the stealth camouflage and bandanna.

wow, hardcore.

[Vrolokus]

Well, we got that point-counterpoint on MGS4 up... but to give fair warning: it's more a discussion between someone who didn't like it and someone who kinda liked it.

It's also very wall-o'-text.  But I think there're some shiny bits in there.

http://www.joystickdivision.com/2008/07/player_vs_player_mgs4.php

A few excerpts:

...like most MGS games, it seems designed to be played more than once: first to find out what the hell's going on, and then at every playthrough afterwards to refine your playing technique. The first time I made an attempt to plow through it, I treated it only marginally as the stealth game it's supposed to be. I watched the cutscenes, ignored the bits with the tedious diagrams of computer cores and soldier mugshots, chortled at the monkey antics, got mad that Raiden finally turned awesome and you can't play as him this time, then plowed through a level with my array of superbad custom rifles like it's Metal Gears of War or something.

This is where you learn what the game's about, come to grips with new gameplay developments and formulate basic strategy for new scenarios and enemies, plus all that plot plot et cetera. Familiarizing yourself with a Metal Gear Solid game in this way is probably a make-or-break point for a lot of people, and if you don't give half a rat buttock about picking this game up ever again, I don't blame you. But once you get past the game the first time and beat it in reckless, get-it-over-with guns-blazing fashion, there's the likelihood you'll get this nagging feeling that you played it "wrong" -- and that if you really want to get the most out of MGS4, you've got to go through it again and make your own challenges: sneak through a level without any alerts, without any kills, without using anything but the tranquilizer gun and maybe a bit of close-quarters combat.

...you brought up something I’ve always had a pet peeve about. If you wander over to NeoGAF (I don’t recommend it, but if you do anyway), you see lots of people engaging in that sort of talk. “Play it on the hardest difficulty, go for no kills, go for no alerts, go for only CQC kills,” and so on. My question – regarding MGS4 or any other game – is: if you need to come up with what are essentially house rules to make a game more compelling, isn’t there a problem? When I was playing Street Fighter II in the arcades back in the day, I’d bet quarters I could beat people with one hand. It makes the game more interesting, but it doesn’t make it better. It’s a stunt, like the crazy Japanese gamers who go through Resident Evil with only a knife. It has nothing to do with the game, instead it's about the player.

That’s my feeling when I hear talk about how MGS4 “should” be played. I went through on the second-to-highest difficulty, stealthy when possible but shootin’ fools when necessary, and it all went fine. If the game is beatable with bland play, then it’s a bland game. I shouldn’t have to play in an unusual way to make it fun; the game should demand interesting play from me.

[Solo]

People are still playing this?

[Smooth Groove]

People are still playing this?

There really isn't much gameplay in MGS4 so it's easy to replay it once or twice again. 

[JustinP]

Well, we got that point-counterpoint on MGS4 up... but to give fair warning: it's more a discussion between someone who didn't like it and someone who kinda liked it.

It's also very wall-o'-text.  But I think there're some shiny bits in there.

http://www.joystickdivision.com/2008/07/player_vs_player_mgs4.php

A few excerpts:

...like most MGS games, it seems designed to be played more than once: first to find out what the hell's going on, and then at every playthrough afterwards to refine your playing technique. The first time I made an attempt to plow through it, I treated it only marginally as the stealth game it's supposed to be. I watched the cutscenes, ignored the bits with the tedious diagrams of computer cores and soldier mugshots, chortled at the monkey antics, got mad that Raiden finally turned awesome and you can't play as him this time, then plowed through a level with my array of superbad custom rifles like it's Metal Gears of War or something.

This is where you learn what the game's about, come to grips with new gameplay developments and formulate basic strategy for new scenarios and enemies, plus all that plot plot et cetera. Familiarizing yourself with a Metal Gear Solid game in this way is probably a make-or-break point for a lot of people, and if you don't give half a rat buttock about picking this game up ever again, I don't blame you. But once you get past the game the first time and beat it in reckless, get-it-over-with guns-blazing fashion, there's the likelihood you'll get this nagging feeling that you played it "wrong" -- and that if you really want to get the most out of MGS4, you've got to go through it again and make your own challenges: sneak through a level without any alerts, without any kills, without using anything but the tranquilizer gun and maybe a bit of close-quarters combat.

...you brought up something I’ve always had a pet peeve about. If you wander over to NeoGAF (I don’t recommend it, but if you do anyway), you see lots of people engaging in that sort of talk. “Play it on the hardest difficulty, go for no kills, go for no alerts, go for only CQC kills,” and so on. My question – regarding MGS4 or any other game – is: if you need to come up with what are essentially house rules to make a game more compelling, isn’t there a problem? When I was playing Street Fighter II in the arcades back in the day, I’d bet quarters I could beat people with one hand. It makes the game more interesting, but it doesn’t make it better. It’s a stunt, like the crazy Japanese gamers who go through Resident Evil with only a knife. It has nothing to do with the game, instead it's about the player.

That’s my feeling when I hear talk about how MGS4 “should” be played. I went through on the second-to-highest difficulty, stealthy when possible but shootin’ fools when necessary, and it all went fine. If the game is beatable with bland play, then it’s a bland game. I shouldn’t have to play in an unusual way to make it fun; the game should demand interesting play from me.

since when is a goal with a corresponding reward considered "house rules" for a game? 

"house rules" is like playing goldeneye with proximity mines and saying "no guns allowed."  or being a tard while playing a fighting game and going "you can't use that move - it's cheap."

playing MGS4 no kills/alerts is no different than going for an achievement or simply choosing an alternate route in a game.  you get rewards specifically for playing that way--it's not even close to being house rules. 

[Smooth Groove]

I don't like how Snake has a bunch of weapons to destroy his enemies but the game punishes you if you don't stick to using the puny tranquilizers. 

[Positive Touch]

Ok, just beat it again (hard mode again, and i got wolf ranking - no kills, continues, rations, or alerts!), and I've got a question.  I realized Big Boss did not just come back to life and go to meet Snake.  He mentions talking to Naomi, who of course died before the Patriots were overthrown.  Yet he also says that his body and mind were sealed by the system and he could not be released until the system was destroyed.  I thought that maybe he could have meant that Solidus was the one that was sealed, but the database says that he was taken after MG2 by the Patriots and sealed.  How can this make sense?

[Positive Touch]

the game doesn't punish you - you just get rewards if you rely on the shit weapons

[Smooth Groove]

the game doesn't punish you - you just get rewards if you rely on the shit weapons

Your enemies get alerted if you use deadly weapons whereas they just stand around if you're sniping with a tranquilizer rifle.  Seems kinda silly. 

[Positive Touch]

but there are like 20 guns with silencers you can buy

[demi]

This game is so horrible. I don't think I'm going to even finish it.

[Pharmacy]

This game is so horrible. I don't think I'm going to even finish it.

good

my friend keeps telling me how he likes the online better than cod4

[Draft]

Ok, just beat it again (hard mode again, and i got wolf ranking - no kills, continues, rations, or alerts!), and I've got a question.  I realized Big Boss did not just come back to life and go to meet Snake.  He mentions talking to Naomi, who of course died before the Patriots were overthrown.  Yet he also says that his body and mind were sealed by the system and he could not be released until the system was destroyed.  I thought that maybe he could have meant that Solidus was the one that was sealed, but the database says that he was taken after MG2 by the Patriots and sealed.  How can this make sense?

How indeed? Surely there is a plausible AND satisfying explanation.

[Positive Touch]

goddamn it there's got to be some other MGS spaz out there that can answer my question 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

I think most of us were asleep by the time Big Boss started his hour long speech.

[Mupepe]

i never watched the end all the way through and i'm a pretty big mgs defender.  it was just so... bad

[Draft]

I am pretty sure he spoke to Naomi through nanomachines.

[Wolf Gang]

I just finished Act 1... that was the most anti-climactic ending to an introductory act of a series finale ever.

I can't believe I played all stealth-like for the entire first act just for that.

What the hell did Naomi even mean when she said some bullshit like, "Snake, if you will not be a victim to fate, then go. Fulfill your destiny."

Wow, did Hayter and Ryan fuck the english translation up on that one or what. Another pair of useless white boys, if you ask me.

[demi]

Seriously... Act 2 is even worse

I started Act 3... this game is one giant chore

[Wolf Gang]

I'm not even finding it funny that Johnny shit his pants and they honored him with a flashback for shitting in a drum can.

I mean, really... four years of development for that? This is not an exemplary use of time. That shit is not epic, no matter how derangedly funny you think it is.

After MGS2, I am simply not amused. There is only so much that even a man with high pain tolerance can take.

Kojima, MGS5 better be like MGS3 or you can expect another death threat.

[demi]

Hahaha, for real. I was like "what the fuck? why is there some dude shitting his pants in a fire fight? why is some dude taking a dump in a drum can? why is there an entire scene about making eggs?"

Game is a piece of shit