Author Topic: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate  (Read 7645 times)

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Hollywood

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fegs = those on GAF saying "thats what you get pirates! woohoo, yay Nintendo!"

First off, they're bitching out people living elsewhere because they dare use a freeloader to buy games at exhorbant prices. One cigarillo actually said, "if you don't like it move somewhere else!"

Second, is so called "piracy" really that bad? I'm not talking about guys who pirate anything and everything they can burn on a disc with no thought of ever buying a legitimate product. These guys would pirate toothpaste if they could.

I'm talking people who are sick of the bullshit prices Nintendo charges for games that  have long released. What is it - $8.00 a SNES and Genesis game? $10.00 an N64 game? Forget that when there were collections, there were 10, 15 games on them. Nowadays on Virtual Console for the same exact games it would cost probably $80 to get them all.

What about the people who have bought this shit over and over though? Some people would like to play their favorite classics on a shiny new system, but apparently paying for a game twice or three times in the past really doesn't matter. Companies still wanna nickel-dime you for as much as they fucking can. "Oh you bought Super Mario Bros. 3 back on NES? Then got it again on Mario All Stars (which was free BTW, AND a compilation), and had it on GBA? Oh okay, give us $5.00 more and you can play it again!"

Fuck that. I don't even have a Wii and that pisses me off. Maybe some people would still pirate no matter what, but I guarantee if companies started acting less like greedy asswipes and charged a reasonable price for games they've already made millions on over and over again, there would be a lot of people who would buy it and not mess with moving ROM's.

Maybe some of these fegs should ask who the real thiefs here are.

Narag

  • Member
Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2008, 10:24:44 PM »
fegs = those on GAF saying "thats what you get pirates! woohoo, yay Nintendo!"

First off, they're bitching out people living elsewhere because they dare use a freeloader to buy games at exhorbant prices. One cigarillo actually said, "if you don't like it move somewhere else!"

Second, is so called "piracy" really that bad? I'm not talking about guys who pirate anything and everything they can burn on a disc with no thought of ever buying a legitimate product. These guys would pirate toothpaste if they could.

I'm talking people who are sick of the bullshit prices Nintendo charges for games that  have long released. What is it - $8.00 a SNES and Genesis game? $10.00 an N64 game? Forget that when there were collections, there were 10, 15 games on them. Nowadays on Virtual Console for the same exact games it would cost probably $80 to get them all.

What about the people who have bought this shit over and over though? Some people would like to play their favorite classics on a shiny new system, but apparently paying for a game twice or three times in the past really doesn't matter. Companies still wanna nickel-dime you for as much as they fucking can. "Oh you bought Super Mario Bros. 3 back on NES? Then got it again on Mario All Stars (which was free BTW, AND a compilation), and had it on GBA? Oh okay, give us $5.00 more and you can play it again!"

Fuck that. I don't even have a Wii and that pisses me off. Maybe some people would still pirate no matter what, but I guarantee if companies started acting less like greedy asswipes and charged a reasonable price for games they've already made millions on over and over again, there would be a lot of people who would buy it and not mess with moving ROM's.

Maybe some of these fegs should ask who the real thiefs here are.

So uh what's stopping you from playing the stuff you've previously bought? That person still had SMB3, MAS, and the GBA edition doesn't need it again but feels a sense of entitlement that they be allowed to play it for free. And before anyone cries about VC prices and brings up PSX downloads, I'm still waiting for PSX games I actually want to appear on their store.
DMC

Hollywood

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2008, 10:43:58 PM »
"So uh what's stopping you from playing the stuff you've previously bought? That person still had SMB3, MAS, and the GBA edition doesn't need it again but feels a sense of entitlement that they be allowed to play it for free. And before anyone cries about VC prices and brings up PSX downloads, I'm still waiting for PSX games I actually want to appear on their store."

I don't like pirates and I don't like Nintendo.  Tough call, but the argument that "I already bought this so why can't I download" is complete bullshit.

Why is it? Technology has progressed enough to the point where "owning" something is basically a right to use anymore. Paying $50 or whatever back in the day, for about $70 inflation nowadays to play SMB 3 and paying another $30, $35 on GBA sounds like a right to use to me. The Virtual Console version is EXACTLY THE SAME as the NES version, so they're essentially charging for something you already have a right to use.

How would you like it if you had to buy a different DVD for every brand DVD player? Pretty ridiculous sounding, but this is the same exact shit. Just because the Wii is a different system than NES doesn't mean you don't own the same exact right to use. Not to mention all the people who worked on the game back in the day, who aren't with the company, likely aren't being paid a damn thing for their work based on the digital downloads.

Typical consumer exploitation, and I don't feel a damn bit sorry for their so called "piracy" problem.

bork

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2008, 10:47:54 PM »
Sorry, did this update also lock-out the use of the Freeloader?
ど助平

MrAngryFace

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2008, 10:49:55 PM »
pirates killed the PSP so there ya go
o_0

Narag

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2008, 10:50:18 PM »
How would you like it if you had to buy a different DVD for every brand DVD player? Pretty ridiculous sounding, but this is the same exact shit. Just because the Wii is a different system than NES doesn't mean you don't own the same exact right to use. Not to mention all the people who worked on the game back in the day, who aren't with the company, likely aren't being paid a damn thing for their work based on the digital downloads.

I had to with VHS, DVD, HD-DVD and now BRD. Same content via different media but it doesn't mean I should be pirating stuff.  Like I said, bust out your NES if you want to play it that bad.
DMC

Narag

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2008, 10:50:37 PM »
Sorry, did this update also lock-out the use of the Freeloader?

GAFfers say yes.
DMC

Jansen

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2008, 10:51:06 PM »
i can't believe there are assholes berating (mostly PAL) gamers for being upset over the freeloader and all their import games being turned into coasters.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2008, 10:57:12 PM by Wicked Laharl »

demi

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2008, 10:51:12 PM »
Sorry, did this update also lock-out the use of the Freeloader?

Yep :lol
fat

Hollywood

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2008, 10:51:58 PM »
Sorry, did this update also lock-out the use of the Freeloader?

Yes. No freeloader for people who want to play games from another region. They've found a workaround to the exploit already, as expected, but freeloader users are fucked. A few hackers have looked at the patch and they basically had it in the works for 3 months testing it so it doesn't brick systems, and all it does is search for the exact exploit gamesave. They figured out how to trick it into not seeing it and a few other ways to get around it a day or two after it was released already.

Narag

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2008, 10:52:16 PM »
i can't believe there are assholes berating (mostly PAL) gamers for being upset over the freeloader and all their import games being turned into a coasters.
That part is indeed bullshit.
DMC

demi

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2008, 10:52:19 PM »
btw, the original hacker already got around the new update, so we should be able to have another Twilight Hack soon enough
fat

Sho Nuff

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2008, 10:54:46 PM »
I guess I ain't buyin' a wii now that freeloader is dead

MrAngryFace

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2008, 10:55:24 PM »
Piracy killed the Dreamcast, so there ya go.
o_0

MrAngryFace

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2008, 10:55:37 PM »
Piracy is killing PC gaming, so there ya go.
o_0

demi

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2008, 10:56:03 PM »
ALSO, the Twilight Hack doesnt even allow you to pirate retail games, you can only pirate VC and WiiWare and run crappy emulators
fat

MrAngryFace

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2008, 10:59:34 PM »
CURSE NINTENDO FOR FIGHTING PIRACY!
o_0

Bloodwake

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2008, 11:01:16 PM »
This sucks.

What sucks worse, referring back to the OP, is that there are gamers who want Nintendo to rape their wallets by buying a game for the fourth or fifth time on the Wii, but Nintendo refuses to release the game.

One specific game is in a series Nintendo refuses to acknowledge here anymore except for in Smash Bros. games, where they parade the characters around and raise the hope of an entire fanbase once again only to fucking spit on them and crush their hopes again.

Fuck you Nintendo for your Earthbound fan hate. Quit the teasing. If you aren't going to release the games here, don't put the characters in your games that you release in this region.

PS: Yeah, I know, not really what this thread is about, but whatever. This pisses me off too, because I know I won't be able to play other games that Nintendo will give the same treatment. This seemed to be related somewhat whenever you think about that. I'm just glad I didn't invest in this yet.
HLR

Hollywood

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2008, 11:02:02 PM »
How would you like it if you had to buy a different DVD for every brand DVD player? Pretty ridiculous sounding, but this is the same exact shit. Just because the Wii is a different system than NES doesn't mean you don't own the same exact right to use. Not to mention all the people who worked on the game back in the day, who aren't with the company, likely aren't being paid a damn thing for their work based on the digital downloads.

I had to with VHS, DVD, HD-DVD and now BRD. Same content via different media but it doesn't mean I should be pirating stuff.  Like I said, bust out your NES if you want to play it that bad.

That's different, 99% of the time. DVD adds features and video quality from VHS, same with Blu-Ray over DVD. You're basically paying for adding that screen quality and/or features in both cases. In Virtual Console cases, there's not a damn thing different from the original games you bought back 20 years ago. The same data you use on that gray cartridge is the same data you use on the Virtual Console, no difference.

And technically if you go this route, of 1) buying a cartridge data extractor, putting the NES data on the PC. 2) Using the TP exploit and installing a emulator on the SD card and 3) Taking the NES game data THAT YOU OWN, putting it on the SD card with the emulator, and loading it into the Wii - what is even illegal about that? THAT is no different than moving your CD files to an MP3 player to listen to.

Even if you take the same data from Virtual Console and do the same thing with the exploit, you're basically skipping a step in the process anyway, and its the same end result and the same data you have on that gray cartridge.

Crushed

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2008, 11:05:22 PM »
"Hey engineers, there's an exploit that can be used for piracy and ROM playing, we should close this."

"Damn you Nintendo, MY HOMEBREW*"

*ROM player
wtc

Hollywood

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2008, 11:09:14 PM »
Too bad out of the cute smart ass one liners none of you can fucking argue what I've just said, dumbasses. Tell me how its illegal or wrong to move data you already have on a cartridge to a game system through emulation is any different than doing it on an MP3 player with a CD?

Or even better, for the douches that ever taped or DVR or TiVO'ed a program, you're making a reporduction of the broadcast. Did you send expressed written consent to whatever sport/show you were watching to do that like the disclaimer goes? If not, then you're basically pirating TV shows or sports, taking away potential profits from a championship disc set or a Season DVD set right? Fucking hypocrites.  :lol

Grecco

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2008, 11:09:22 PM »
Lol at hate over VC prices.

(Dont buy the games?)

MrAngryFace

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2008, 11:09:45 PM »
Why dont you play some games on your wii hahaha games on the wii
o_0

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2008, 11:10:02 PM »
Sweet.

I hate Nintendo's price gouging but I hate the smug attitude of pirate apologists...err I mean homebrew apologists.  Most think that piracy should be free because they're too lazy to leave their mom's basement to get a job, but they will cloak it as "Nintendo is an evil company that screws over us, the loyal consumer."  I can imagine the aneurysms pirates are having because of Nintendo's audacity to stop piracy on their products.  How dare they!
🍆🍆

Sho Nuff

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2008, 11:11:47 PM »
The Twilight Hack is unrelated to the loophole that allows the Freeloader to work, right?

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2008, 11:11:53 PM »
999,999 out of 1,000,000 people who download ROMs do not own the original cartridge.
🍆🍆

Narag

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2008, 11:12:43 PM »
Too bad out of the cute smart ass one liners none of you can fucking argue what I've just said, dumbasses. Tell me how its illegal or wrong to move data you already have on a cartridge to a game system through emulation is any different than doing it on an MP3 player with a CD?

Or even better, for the douches that ever taped or DVR or TiVO'ed a program, you're making a reporduction of the broadcast. Did you send expressed written consent to whatever sport/show you were watching to do that like the disclaimer goes? If not, then you're basically pirating TV shows or sports, taking away potential profits from a championship disc set or a Season DVD set right? Fucking hypocrites.  :lol

The first scenario should fall under some reasonable fair use. The 2nd in your post above this one is fairly nebulous as it doesn't require the physical product to achieve the end result, just everyone playing by the honor system.  I fail to see why this is even an issue for you given you don't own a Wii and it would be just as easy for people to dump/dl the roms to a PC based emu. 
DMC

cool breeze

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2008, 11:13:59 PM »
Not being able to play my gamecube/wii imports with freeloader anymore is annoying.  Then again, I'm not gonna update for a long time since (as of now) there are no Wii games worth getting in the future.

And anyone who is happy about Nintendo "fixing" this problem can eat a dick.  It is Nintendo's own damn fault for people wanting to use freeloader.  Just get rid of region lock and there would be no problem.  Both Microsoft and Sony got the general idea.  Basically, let me play more games on your system.

Trent Dole

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2008, 11:18:57 PM »
:bow swaggaz :bow2
Hi

demi

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2008, 11:21:16 PM »
The Twilight Hack is unrelated to the loophole that allows the Freeloader to work, right?

Kinda sorta...

What Freeloader did was the Trucha Signer exploit and sold it for retail (like all of Codejunkies shit - see Pandora Battery)

http://www.rockthewii.com/?p=2759
fat

MrAngryFace

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2008, 11:23:36 PM »
Not being able to play my gamecube/wii imports with freeloader anymore is annoying.  Then again, I'm not gonna update for a long time since (as of now) there are no Wii games worth getting in the future.

And anyone who is happy about Nintendo "fixing" this problem can eat a dick.  It is Nintendo's own damn fault for people wanting to use freeloader.  Just get rid of region lock and there would be no problem.  Both Microsoft and Sony got the general idea.  Basically, let me play more games on your system.

Or in the case of the PSP, let no one BUY games for your system LAWLZ
o_0

ananus

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2008, 11:27:35 PM »
piracy killed the ps1, so there ya go.

piracy killed the ps2, so there ya go.

piracy killed the xbox, so there ya go.

piracy is killing the ds, so there ya go.

piracy is killing the xbox 360, so there ya go.

MrAngryFace

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2008, 11:33:09 PM »
Nothing can kill the DS, dont be a dumbass
o_0

Hollywood

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2008, 11:35:46 PM »
Too bad out of the cute smart ass one liners none of you can fucking argue what I've just said, dumbasses. Tell me how its illegal or wrong to move data you already have on a cartridge to a game system through emulation is any different than doing it on an MP3 player with a CD?

Or even better, for the douches that ever taped or DVR or TiVO'ed a program, you're making a reporduction of the broadcast. Did you send expressed written consent to whatever sport/show you were watching to do that like the disclaimer goes? If not, then you're basically pirating TV shows or sports, taking away potential profits from a championship disc set or a Season DVD set right? Fucking hypocrites.  :lol

The first scenario should fall under some reasonable fair use. The 2nd in your post above this one is fairly nebulous as it doesn't require the physical product to achieve the end result, just everyone playing by the honor system.  I fail to see why this is even an issue for you given you don't own a Wii and it would be just as easy for people to dump/dl the roms to a PC based emu. 

So the "honor system" is fine with taping or DVR'ing something on TV - but not fine if you were to download a game you already own to save you the hassle of moving the SAME EXACT DATA to the PC to play on an emulator?

Using DVR or taping something is basically the exact same thing as that. You're basically taking a source of data and copying it to a media which you aren't "authorized" to. Hell, even premium data at that usually (from a cable or PPV source.)

The difference is twofold here why its accepted even though its the same thing. Number one, getting that DVR or tape or whatever, there's not a product out on the market YET from that. You usually have to wait a few months for TV seasons, or even years or never for sports compilations to come out. Second, once the event happens on TV usually people watch it once to know what happens and then thats it. No one gives a fuck really about seeing Game 2 of the Finals over and over again, or seeing Soup Nazi episode of Seinfeld when its on TV all the fucking time, nor is it worth anything to sell.

You're missing the point here. For those people who already own this stuff, why is it so wrong to either move it or get the same exact copy of it? It's the same data you already have, and in that aspect its actually LESS piracy than copying a broadcast.

I don't have a problem with buying a game I never owned. Hell, I can't even BE a ROM mongeror, I've been there and done that and tried it and its not for me, because that stuff tends to devalue the games themselves. I've had disc of ROM's before, and its a lot less appealing than people make it out to be. You just end up seeing this big list of games, trying a couple for a few minutes, and saying 'fuck it, who cares?' and playing something you already own.

Think, most people can mod a console pretty easily, and most people can just torrent anything they want if they know where to look, so with emulation you have basically every game ever released available to you if you wanted. Maybe some people can sit there and pirate every game and play a ton of them, but I have no desire to. When you have something available to you constantly, you become desensitized and don't even value it. I see no problem with playing games you already own though.

MrAngryFace

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2008, 11:37:12 PM »
I think the point is you believe other people out there have a bunch of checks and balances to keep their piracy under control. This is not something created to target you and your dreams.
o_0

Bildi

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2008, 11:40:11 PM »
I couldn't care less about pirates getting shut down.

But stomping on region protection is not cool.  Region protection needs to die a horrible and painful death.

MrAngryFace

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2008, 11:41:42 PM »
Region protection is the new hotness. Now quit cry cry all over the forum about realities you cant change, and pick up etrian odyssey 2 for ds
o_0

Narag

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2008, 11:47:39 PM »
As I said, if you already own it, I don't see the harm in it. The honor system was in jest towards the people that would outright lie about ownership and fuck those with legitimate considerations.  
What i don't see though is the absolute need to play said game on whatever you deem to be the player of choice for the day.  There might be some novelty on throwing a ton of roms on the wii regardless of how they're procured but then again I'm similar to you in that seeing a large list of games I could play isn't all that appealing and it can be downright intimidating.


I don't get the DVR/VHS analogy either as that does qualify under fair use as its essentially time shifting.

Quote
You're missing the point here. For those people who already own this stuff, why is it so wrong to either move it or get the same exact copy of it? It's the same data you already have, and in that aspect its actually LESS piracy than copying a broadcast.

So in that aspect it is indeed very much more piracy.


Region protection is the new hotness. Now quit cry cry all over the forum about realities you cant change, and pick up etrian odyssey 2 for ds

Bless the DS for being region free too. :bow2
DMC

Hollywood

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2008, 11:50:01 PM »
I think the point is you believe other people out there have a bunch of checks and balances to keep their piracy under control. This is not something created to target you and your dreams.

Yeah but why do certain fegs group everyone who would like to play games they ALREADY OWN on a system with all of piracy. It makes more sense for me to group anyone who tapes or DVR's a show with pirates than that, and I think msot everyone has taped something in their life, so these people are being plain hypocrites.

And whoever keeps saying "fair use" - explain to me the disclaimer in every event? Fair use just seems like a cool word to say to make you sound like you know what you're talking about.  :lol

Narag

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2008, 11:53:46 PM »
I think the point is you believe other people out there have a bunch of checks and balances to keep their piracy under control. This is not something created to target you and your dreams.

Yeah but why do certain fegs group everyone who would like to play games they ALREADY OWN on a system with all of piracy. It makes more sense for me to group anyone who tapes or DVR's a show with pirates than that, and I think msot everyone has taped something in their life, so these people are being plain hypocrites.

And whoever keeps saying "fair use" - explain to me the disclaimer in every event? Fair use just seems like a cool word to say to make you sound like you know what you're talking about.  :lol

Even though its your onus to come to the discussion with the proper knowledge, I'll oblige. Those disclaimers are overstating rights to copyrighted material that individuals are allotted and as such the disclaimers are fairly dubious themselves.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070801-ftc-complaint-flags-nfl-mlb-studios-for-overstating-copyright-claims.html
DMC

MrAngryFace

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2008, 11:57:20 PM »
o_0


MCD

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2008, 12:14:01 AM »
blocking piracy/homebrew is a right thing and no worries, pirates will find a new exploit soon.

only bad news here is the freeloader.

bork

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2008, 12:30:49 AM »
Guess it just means a new Freeloader disc is going to come out.  At $20, it's not a huge loss for people, but I don't know if I'm going to buy one at all now.
ど助平

Hollywood

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Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2008, 12:54:14 AM »
I think the point is you believe other people out there have a bunch of checks and balances to keep their piracy under control. This is not something created to target you and your dreams.

Yeah but why do certain fegs group everyone who would like to play games they ALREADY OWN on a system with all of piracy. It makes more sense for me to group anyone who tapes or DVR's a show with pirates than that, and I think msot everyone has taped something in their life, so these people are being plain hypocrites.

And whoever keeps saying "fair use" - explain to me the disclaimer in every event? Fair use just seems like a cool word to say to make you sound like you know what you're talking about.  :lol

Even though its your onus to come to the discussion with the proper knowledge, I'll oblige. Those disclaimers are overstating rights to copyrighted material that individuals are allotted and as such the disclaimers are fairly dubious themselves.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070801-ftc-complaint-flags-nfl-mlb-studios-for-overstating-copyright-claims.html

Nice site, it appears there is a lot of questions about "fair use" and nothing really is set as law and a lot of argument on both sides. Which proves my whole point, for people acting like this is right, this is wrong, in black and white terms. "This is what all you pirates get!" people say. Even the RIAA is arguing for some ridiculous stuff:

"When an individual makes a copy of a song for himself, I suppose we can say he stole a song," said Pariser. Making "a copy" of a song you own is just "a nice way of saying 'steals just one copy'," according to Pariser.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071211-riaa-those-cd-rips-of-yours-are-still-unauthorized.html?rel

Do you agree with that?

Also:

Fair use is decided on a case by case basis, on the entirety of circumstances. The same act done by different means or for a different purpose can gain or lose fair use status. Even repeating an identical act at a different point in time can make a difference due to changing social, technological, or other surrounding circumstances.

It seems like one day videogames could be up for this and it could be found that transferring games you own are fair use.

Whether or not you believe the downloading of ROM's when you own them or not is piracy or not is a smaller issue to the fact the RIAA and other companies like Nintendo continue to polarize themselves and dig their own grave by acting like complete dicks with pricing. At the time when basically all of these games were released, this digital stuff was a glimmer in someone's eye. They had no idea what was coming, they made their product with the expectation that that was the only profit they were going to make was the original release.

Maybe it's completely in their rights to make a profit for the 50th time off their intellectual properties, but you can see why it pisses people off an motivates them to get the ROM's and exploit the system. It's basically free money since there's no variable cost, and it comes off extremely greedy to take advantage of it, and they polarize themselves. Imagine if they set a $2, $4, $6 system or so for these games? More people would take advantage of buying them and get to play older classics, Nintendo would be seen as giving back to the consumer, and they would still make a good amount of money.

They have a right to do whatever they want, but they can't have their cake and eat it too. Someone found a weakness and people are going to exploit it.

MrAngryFace

  • I have the most sensible car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2008, 12:55:19 AM »
You're pretty passionate about this, you should take the issue somewhere that matters lol
o_0

homborg

  • Junior Member
Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #46 on: June 18, 2008, 12:56:37 AM »
firmware threads on GAF (and now EB it seem):

-so does this block the hacks?!!! (what the fuck do you think?)
-this tiny stupid feature of the GUI that's been part of the system day one is new I think
-dur lock thread pir8z
-piracy is illegal???
-wah my expensive importing got more expensive sniffle
-is piracy legal???
-nintendo is filled with nazis, anarchy now motherfu--hold up, my wii fit age rose

Vizzys

  • green hair connoisseur
  • Senior Member
Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2008, 01:02:08 AM »
hollywood is a dirty gaffot

thats why its here now
萌え~

Narag

  • Member
Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2008, 01:06:45 AM »

Nice site, it appears there is a lot of questions about "fair use" and nothing really is set as law and a lot of argument on both sides. Which proves my whole point, for people acting like this is right, this is wrong, in black and white terms. "This is what all you pirates get!" people say. Even the RIAA is arguing for some ridiculous stuff:

"When an individual makes a copy of a song for himself, I suppose we can say he stole a song," said Pariser. Making "a copy" of a song you own is just "a nice way of saying 'steals just one copy'," according to Pariser.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071211-riaa-those-cd-rips-of-yours-are-still-unauthorized.html?rel

Do you agree with that?
That's an interesting read and according to the EFF the case centers around that having made a copy, its automatically assumed you're going to make it available.  This has no legal grounding but often the RIAA can intimidate or outlast people in court.   In Atlantic v Howell, they're being sued for attempted copyright infringement.  :lol  According to the EFF brief, this same tactic has been shot down multiple times in different courts around the US.
This is horrible and based on a guilty until proven innocent mentality.  Own a lighter? Someone could sue you for attempted arson. On a computer? Maybe someone could sue you for an attempted hack.  Things just don't work that way.

Quote
Also:

Fair use is decided on a case by case basis, on the entirety of circumstances. The same act done by different means or for a different purpose can gain or lose fair use status. Even repeating an identical act at a different point in time can make a difference due to changing social, technological, or other surrounding circumstances.

It seems like one day videogames could be up for this and it could be found that transferring games you own are fair use.

Whether or not you believe the downloading of ROM's when you own them or not is piracy or not is a smaller issue to the fact the RIAA and other companies like Nintendo continue to polarize themselves and dig their own grave by acting like complete dicks with pricing. At the time when basically all of these games were released, this digital stuff was a glimmer in someone's eye. They had no idea what was coming, they made their product with the expectation that that was the only profit they were going to make was the original release.

Maybe it's completely in their rights to make a profit for the 50th time off their intellectual properties, but you can see why it pisses people off an motivates them to get the ROM's and exploit the system. It's basically free money since there's no variable cost, and it comes off extremely greedy to take advantage of it, and they polarize themselves. Imagine if they set a $2, $4, $6 system or so for these games? More people would take advantage of buying them and get to play older classics, Nintendo would be seen as giving back to the consumer, and they would still make a good amount of money.

They have a right to do whatever they want, but they can't have their cake and eat it too. Someone found a weakness and people are going to exploit it.

There's no maybe about that. You and I will just have to agree to disagree on this it seems.  Crying about a corporation being greedy and charging $x is old hat. Gas is expensive but I'm not about to start doing driveoffs to stick it to the man.  Piracy is rationalized as a victimless crime that doesn't hurt anyone and typically under the pretenses of "well if it cost less I would..."  $2, $4, and $6 would have the same result as people would still consider it too high and while the amount of people doing it may be less, it'd still be prevalent as there's something of a power fantasy fulfilled when one is stealing and not being caught.

You're pretty passionate about this, you should take the issue somewhere that matters lol

If this kind of talk is frowned upon here, I'll let it go as well. I like the board but I don't fully have a grasp on the culture of this forum yet.
DMC

MrAngryFace

  • I have the most sensible car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2008, 01:25:09 AM »
blah you can say what you want. Just sayin it wont change much!

Now threads about illegal WoW servers, those are a no-no.
o_0

Hollywood

  • Member
Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2008, 01:27:33 AM »

Nice site, it appears there is a lot of questions about "fair use" and nothing really is set as law and a lot of argument on both sides. Which proves my whole point, for people acting like this is right, this is wrong, in black and white terms. "This is what all you pirates get!" people say. Even the RIAA is arguing for some ridiculous stuff:

"When an individual makes a copy of a song for himself, I suppose we can say he stole a song," said Pariser. Making "a copy" of a song you own is just "a nice way of saying 'steals just one copy'," according to Pariser.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071211-riaa-those-cd-rips-of-yours-are-still-unauthorized.html?rel

Do you agree with that?
That's an interesting read and according to the EFF the case centers around that having made a copy, its automatically assumed you're going to make it available.  This has no legal grounding but often the RIAA can intimidate or outlast people in court.   In Atlantic v Howell, they're being sued for attempted copyright infringement.  :lol  According to the EFF brief, this same tactic has been shot down multiple times in different courts around the US.
This is horrible and based on a guilty until proven innocent mentality.  Own a lighter? Someone could sue you for attempted arson. On a computer? Maybe someone could sue you for an attempted hack.  Things just don't work that way.

Quote
Also:

Fair use is decided on a case by case basis, on the entirety of circumstances. The same act done by different means or for a different purpose can gain or lose fair use status. Even repeating an identical act at a different point in time can make a difference due to changing social, technological, or other surrounding circumstances.

It seems like one day videogames could be up for this and it could be found that transferring games you own are fair use.

Whether or not you believe the downloading of ROM's when you own them or not is piracy or not is a smaller issue to the fact the RIAA and other companies like Nintendo continue to polarize themselves and dig their own grave by acting like complete dicks with pricing. At the time when basically all of these games were released, this digital stuff was a glimmer in someone's eye. They had no idea what was coming, they made their product with the expectation that that was the only profit they were going to make was the original release.

Maybe it's completely in their rights to make a profit for the 50th time off their intellectual properties, but you can see why it pisses people off an motivates them to get the ROM's and exploit the system. It's basically free money since there's no variable cost, and it comes off extremely greedy to take advantage of it, and they polarize themselves. Imagine if they set a $2, $4, $6 system or so for these games? More people would take advantage of buying them and get to play older classics, Nintendo would be seen as giving back to the consumer, and they would still make a good amount of money.

They have a right to do whatever they want, but they can't have their cake and eat it too. Someone found a weakness and people are going to exploit it.

There's no maybe about that. You and I will just have to agree to disagree on this it seems.  Crying about a corporation being greedy and charging $x is old hat. Gas is expensive but I'm not about to start doing driveoffs to stick it to the man.  Piracy is rationalized as a victimless crime that doesn't hurt anyone and typically under the pretenses of "well if it cost less I would..."  $2, $4, and $6 would have the same result as people would still consider it too high and while the amount of people doing it may be less, it'd still be prevalent as there's something of a power fantasy fulfilled when one is stealing and not being caught.

You're pretty passionate about this, you should take the issue somewhere that matters lol

If this kind of talk is frowned upon here, I'll let it go as well. I like the board but I don't fully have a grasp on the culture of this forum yet.

I was using the word "maybe" in the context of the sentence, I know its in their right to do it. I was using the word maybe as a setup for the double edged sword.

I don't pirate, or even have a Wii, so I don't include myself in this group of people who do it to "stick it to the man," but I am pointing it out as karma for their price practices. All three console companies have been notoriously ridiculously hardline, and Nintendo has even been fined by the EU for price fixing, so has Microsoft with Windows leveled the biggest fine in history I believe by the EU, and of course Sony's music industry issues; so its not exactly like these companies are being ethical either. I'm not going to cry over the fact that certain people are using leverage over them for taking ancient ROM's available from a simple torrent or google search. You reap what you sew.

Maybe certain people would still pirate no matter what, and I've already said that, but there's also a large group of people who downloaded music from Napster because there was no alternative, and then went legal when a viable alternative came along in iTunes. Plenty of people came along when Nintendo made VC even if they could play them on PC in the same way. The prices are still too high though compared to compilations over the years and it comes off as greedy, that's all I'm saying. When you're seen as greedy and taking advantage of consumers, you get people stealing gas, people pirating your products, and so on. Maybe more companies should ask the reason WHY people are pirating, and get to the bottom of it and address the core issue behind it.

Be more friendly to homebrewers so they don't attack the console in a way that also opens it up to piraters. Most aren't even doing it for piracy, but for the accomplishment of getting their own little homegrown project up and running on a game console. Don't demand on milking your loyal customers for all their worth just because you CAN. Stuff like that would certainly go a long way in fighting piracy.

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2008, 01:29:41 AM »
If this kind of talk is frowned upon here, I'll let it go as well. I like the board but I don't fully have a grasp on the culture of this forum yet.

He means nobody cares, if you want to entertain yourself, by all means

And did I ever link you to my hacked WoW server?
fat

MrAngryFace

  • I have the most sensible car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2008, 01:38:07 AM »
DEMI! dont cause trouble!
o_0

pilonv1

  • I love you just the way I am
  • Senior Member
Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2008, 01:53:36 AM »
why cant we talk about hacked wow?
itm

MrAngryFace

  • I have the most sensible car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2008, 01:58:11 AM »
CAUSE I SAID SO! Consider it one of those weird quirky rules I have instead of 'NO CUSSING'
o_0

bork

  • おっぱいは命、尻は故郷
  • Global Moderator
Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2008, 01:59:10 AM »
Yeah!  Talk about romz n' piracy n' shit BUT NO HACKED WOW SERVERS! 

...

Uh?
 ???
ど助平

MrAngryFace

  • I have the most sensible car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #56 on: June 18, 2008, 01:59:45 AM »
There's a very specific reason, I am just not at liberty to say. Rom discussions are fine as long as no one is supplying them. Discussing the existence of ROMS isnt a crime.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 02:02:21 AM by MultiPass »
o_0

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #57 on: June 18, 2008, 02:04:39 AM »
well wow sucks so you dont have to worry about that

for now

dont make me angry
fat

MrAngryFace

  • I have the most sensible car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #58 on: June 18, 2008, 02:06:31 AM »
sorry demi, let us play EO1/and EO2 in spiritual harmony
o_0

pilonv1

  • I love you just the way I am
  • Senior Member
Re: RANT TIME: Nintendo updates Wii to stop exploit, fegs celebrate
« Reply #59 on: June 18, 2008, 02:09:28 AM »
so maf is a blizzard mole. makes sense
itm