Author Topic: How to deal with religious nutbags?  (Read 1583 times)

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TVC15

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How to deal with religious nutbags?
« on: July 01, 2008, 05:31:48 PM »
I've mentioned some of these details to Prole, but I guess I should start at the beginning for the sake of the rest of the class.  This may or may not be long-winded, but there is a legitimate question at the end, so for chrissakes read my post, or GANG LEADER FOR A DAY which is probably better than this post.

I recently learned that an uncle of mine had one of them there brain tumor things that make people die.  Uncharacteristically, he's one of the few family members I have that I actually care about, so if he died I would have to be inconvenienced with flying to fucking Falls Church, VA to attend his funeral.  Since that would affect me and possibly make me miss seeing Girl Talk at the Capitol Hill Block Party, I decided to pay attention to the situation and try to figure out what his chances were by harassing his family.

And this is where things get lame.  His wife and kids are religious distinguished mentally-challenged fellows that think praying is just as important as surgery.  So I'd ask, "Hey, how goes it with that there brain tumor?" and I'd basically get back "He'll be fine. . .if YOU PRAY."  I found this annoying, but I figured that if they weren't actually taking the situation seriously enough to forget their fairy tales and care about relevant shit, chances were he'd be fine.  Fast forward a few days, post-surgery, and a biopsy reveals that the tumor was MALIGNANT and that they couldn't get the whole tumor out and that my uncle is basically brain damaged now.  I asked if anything had metastasized up in that bitch and I basically got "PRAY MOAR."  I've since stopped caring since I am clearly dealing with people significantly more irrational than myself.  And I'm a budding sociopath!

But anecdote aside, the question here is how do I deal with people that ask for prayers?  They always ask for prayers prominently so it's very conspicuous if you skip mentioning it in your response.  And I mean, I can't lie and be like "Sure, yeah, I'll pray, whatever," because I am too much of an honest person to do that.  There's always the lame deflection of saying something like "I'll keep him in my thoughts," but not only is that a very conspicuous deflection, it doesn't even mean anything, and I think it's basically the same as lying or patronizing the person making the request.

So, what the fuck do I do?  One of the very few people I care about in this world of cum and piss and shit is surrounded by complete distinguished mentally-challenged fellows.  Since he may or may not have some sort of cancer, any strategies have to be somewhat soft and non-confrontational.  There has to be a way via politicking to get the information I require.

serge

Human Snorenado

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2008, 05:38:57 PM »
Frankly, I use the "keep him in my thoughts" tactic.  I used it with my great-uncle Jack when he was dying of lung cancer- his evil second wife was a church busybody that lived for trying to shove religion down everyone's throats.  Of course, it helped that uncle Jack, while believing in a Christian god and shit didn't have ANY use for organized religion and constantly told her to STFU.  After he died, it actually stipulated in his will that not only was the pastor at her church unable to speak at his funeral, other members of the congregation weren't either aside from his wife.  She was piiiissssed, but my dad and I just kind of smirked and toasted Jack behind her back.

So yeah, that's my anecdotal advice.  It worked on phone calls, but when my dad and I went to visit him towards the end, she expected us to go to church with her and pray for Jack even though he wanted to go fishing with us and for her to stfu.  That caused a stink, but he was pretty hilarious about it- "I'm DYING woman, you can let me take my boys fishing one last time for the love of Christ."
yar

Vizzys

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2008, 05:41:39 PM »
do what that guy did in "the mist"
萌え~

Phoenix Dark

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2008, 05:44:58 PM »
First off I'm sorry to hear about that, and I'll be keeping him in my prayers*

*I use the phrase the same way some use the phrase "bless you" after someone coughs, or "god bless this food please" before eating. It's more of a psychological comfort for some people and I understand that. Keeping someone in prayer is not going to "heal" them in this day and age but there are many people who believe otherwise. My grandma has severe arthritis and gives tons of her money to these fucking scam artist "name and claim" pastors. They "heal" people...then a week later whoops the problem is back. It makes me sick to even think about it because my grandma has fallen so deep into that bullshit, to the point where she blames herself for "not praying hard enough" whenever she's not healed.

Sorry for the rant. I'd just say "ok" or "yeah..." whenever they tell you to pray moar. No harm done. Clearly this uncle means a lot to you and he's in your thoughts, so you've come half way in their demands. The fundamentalist/lets-pretend-it's-still-Pentecost type christians are some of the most difficult people I've come across, although they don't compare to Calvinists smh

 
010

MrAngryFace

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2008, 05:46:44 PM »
I dont talk to them about religion. If they insist on bringing it up, I stop talking to them.
o_0

Eric P

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2008, 05:53:44 PM »
hey if you come to Falls Church we can probably find something awesome to do.

but really, i just ignore it because frankly once the conversation ends, it's over.  i don't have to worry about their beliefs anymore
Tonya

Mandark

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2008, 06:20:42 PM »
Frankly, I use the "keep him in my thoughts" tactic.

Very good.  Or if you know know any professionally devout people, you can say "I'll ask soandso to pray for him."

That's a good end-around because you wouldn't feel like you were selling out, but you'd still be satisfying what is basically a symbolic and emotional need on the part of some grieving people.  Plus it seems like you're going the extra mile.  "Me pray?  Screw that noise, I'm bringing in the nuns!"

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2008, 06:24:21 PM »
I was at a wedding over the weekend and refused to bow my head during the prayers or invocation. It's not disrespectful - I just don't think I should pretend to do something I don't believe in. So instead  I spent most of the prayer time making faces at my Satanist boss. :rock

As for your specific situation, "I'll keep him in my thoughts" seems like a truthful and fair response. The situation sucks, though. A good family friend died of terrible double-masectomy style breast cancer and her family was all "it's so great she died! she's in a better place now! A place called... Heaven!" and I could only be aghast at their making lemonade out of METASTATIZING DEATH LEMONS. Death turns crazy religious people into SUPER crazy religious people.
乱学者

Bildi

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2008, 06:26:04 PM »
I shut the door in their face.  I realise that doesn't help much here though.

Since I have never found in my life a way to deal with religious nutbags (I guess the "blind faith" phrase was coined for a reason), I would imagine the only way to deal with them is to circumvent them. 

Can you get access to his doctor over the phone?  If your surnames are the same I guess that would help.

muckhole

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2008, 06:41:07 PM »
but really, i just ignore it because frankly once the conversation ends, it's over.  i don't have to worry about their beliefs anymore

Precisely. Even if it weren't ingrained in their vernacular, I would think that considering the circumstances, it will be pretty easy to overlook.
fek

Beardo

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2008, 07:03:30 PM »
I was at a wedding over the weekend and refused to bow my head during the prayers or invocation. It's not disrespectful - I just don't think I should pretend to do something I don't believe in.

Just bow your head, it's not that hard. It's a culture thing more than anything. It would be like going into a mosque and not taking your shoes off.

Mandark

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2008, 07:18:18 PM »
Eh, if you're a guest at a religious ritual I think it's reasonable to go along with the motions and the attire.

Bowing your head during the designated prayer time is as much of an acknowledgment of YHWH as wearing a yarmulke1, and we can all agree that someone who didn't do that at a barmitzvah is just being a dick.

Of course attending a Jewish/Muslim/Hindu ceremony as an atheist in the US doesn't have the same undertones of forced conformity as attending a Christian one, but ya know.






[1] This may be completely wrong and TVC could school me on the historical Catholic significance of head-bowing, but it sure sounds true.

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2008, 07:39:30 PM »
Eh, if you're a guest at a religious ritual I think it's reasonable to go along with the motions and the attire.

Bowing your head during the designated prayer time is as much of an acknowledgment of YHWH as wearing a yarmulke1, and we can all agree that someone who didn't do that at a barmitzvah is just being a dick.

I don't think that gentiles are supposed to wear yarmulkes at a bar mitzvah.

In my own twisted logic, not going through the motions is me being respectful; I respect your beliefs enough to not make a mockery of them through unbelieving pantomime.
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TVC15

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2008, 07:43:33 PM »
I personally would probably not pass up the opportunity to wear a yarmulke.  If there were less praying and more yarmulke-wearing in these interactions, I am sure I'd know a whole lot more about my uncle's condition right now.
serge

TVC15

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2008, 07:47:17 PM »
If the jews mass marketed yarmulkes like they have circumcision, the whole middle east crisis thing would probably wrap up quickly.
serge

Akala

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2008, 10:04:24 PM »
Being totally agnostic, the few times anyone has asked me to pray for anything of worth, I send out a prayer.* Stranger things have happened.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
*IMO if there is any god, thinking out a prayer is good enough. It only takes a second lol.
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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2008, 12:23:04 AM »
If it's someone I know well, I will tell them to never bring up religion in my face. My sister does this to me all the time by sending me stupid religious powerpoints and images to "brighten my day - and send this to 20 others or forever be damned in hell" bullshit. She just ruined it actually - and I don't go pushing an agenda of "don't believe in the opiate of the masses" crap on her.

If it's someone I know as an acquaintance, I'll simply smile a bit and change the topic because rationalizing with someone who is in essence an idealist is like getting dogs and cats to understand each other. The main culprits here are some buddhists that don't push any agenda on me but the mention of prayer still creeps up every once in a while. They're not nearly as bad as evangelists and Jehovah's witnesses, who bang on your door at 7am on a god-damn Sunday morning; you're supposed to be resting on a Sunday! To them, I tell them I believe in a religion almost diametrically opposite theirs; normally Zen Buddhism and Islam does the trick. I mention that and they leave bewildered.

Mormons? I hate them. They go around every god-damn city in the world, proselytizing their faith on you. Modern-day missionaries. Again, I don't push an agenda on their asses; leave me the farck alone!

Thank god I'm an atheist...

Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2008, 02:20:13 AM »
If it's someone I know well, I will tell them to never bring up religion in my face. My sister does this to me all the time by sending me stupid religious powerpoints and images to "brighten my day - and send this to 20 others or forever be damned in hell" bullshit. She just ruined it actually - and I don't go pushing an agenda of "don't believe in the opiate of the masses" crap on her.

If it's someone I know as an acquaintance, I'll simply smile a bit and change the topic because rationalizing with someone who is in essence an idealist is like getting dogs and cats to understand each other. The main culprits here are some buddhists that don't push any agenda on me but the mention of prayer still creeps up every once in a while. They're not nearly as bad as evangelists and Jehovah's witnesses, who bang on your door at 7am on a god-damn Sunday morning; you're supposed to be resting on a Sunday! To them, I tell them I believe in a religion almost diametrically opposite theirs; normally Zen Buddhism and Islam does the trick. I mention that and they leave bewildered.

Mormons? I hate them. They go around every god-damn city in the world, proselytizing their faith on you. Modern-day missionaries. Again, I don't push an agenda on their asses; leave me the farck alone!

Thank god I'm an atheist...

Now you see what it'slike dealing with Apple fantards or console fans, salivating Obama fanboys or Reagan dick-sucking neocon nutjobs
Crm

TVC15

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2008, 02:33:49 AM »
If it's someone I know well, I will tell them to never bring up religion in my face.

Yeah, but these are people that I talk to maybe once a year.  I'm not even sure they know I'm gay.  Despite the inflammatory tone of the OP, these are generally nice people.  They aren't completely nutty and praying and blessing everything in sight.  They aren't fucked up fundamentalists or anything like that.  As a matter of fact, I didn't know they were even quite this vocally religious until these recent episodes.  But I do feel that people asking me to pray for shit is basicallyt he equivalent of, I dunno, asking them to suck a few cocks on their way to Fuddruckers.
serge

Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2008, 02:38:51 AM »
Now you see what it'slike dealing with Apple fantards or console fans, salivating Obama fanboys or Reagan dick-sucking neocon nutjobs

Well, we do have a saying in my country: Never ever talk about religion, politics, or football (that's "soccer" for you North Americans). Console fanboys ain't got nuttin' on religious fundamentalism or political zealotry.

Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2008, 02:43:42 AM »
Yeah, but these are people that I talk to maybe once a year.  I'm not even sure they know I'm gay.  Despite the inflammatory tone of the OP, these are generally nice people.  They aren't completely nutty and praying and blessing everything in sight.  They aren't fucked up fundamentalists or anything like that.  As a matter of fact, I didn't know they were even quite this vocally religious until these recent episodes.  But I do feel that people asking me to pray for shit is basicallyt he equivalent of, I dunno, asking them to suck a few cocks on their way to Fuddruckers.

My sister is, well, my sister so I know her quite well, and I don't really tell her to toss off or anything like that. Just a gentle reminder that I, unlike her, do not profess to any single religious creed. It'll be something like, "Sis, please don't bring up religion with me. You know I don't believe in it. But if you insist, I'll be forced to take up my agnostic / atheist / iconoclastic stance and we shall argue. A lot. But you don't want that, and I don't want that, so let's just stop there, ok?"

Normally the first sentence is enough. In your case, perhaps you can try "topic changing" because really, you guys will never ever look on the same level. Trying to understand the other party or getting them to understand your posture is an exercise in futility.


Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2008, 02:53:58 AM »
Despite the inflammatory tone of the OP, these are generally nice people.  They aren't completely nutty and praying and blessing everything in sight.  They aren't fucked up fundamentalists or anything like that.  As a matter of fact, I didn't know they were even quite this vocally religious until these recent episodes. 

Sounds like my wife's family. My wife knows I'm not into religion like they are, so she's just taught me to smile, act polite, and not say anything to upset them.
野球

TVC15

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2008, 03:02:36 AM »
Despite the inflammatory tone of the OP, these are generally nice people.  They aren't completely nutty and praying and blessing everything in sight.  They aren't fucked up fundamentalists or anything like that.  As a matter of fact, I didn't know they were even quite this vocally religious until these recent episodes. 

Sounds like my wife's family. My wife knows I'm not into religion like they are, so she's just taught me to smile, act polite, and not say anything to upset them.

That's probably how I'd handle it in less urgent situations.  When malignant brain tumors are in the equation, though, the whole dog and pony show is just frustrating and disgusting.  I want to know how he's doing, and whether I lie to them and say I'm praying or not, I'm not going to get a real answer that isn't fueled be religious idiocy.  There's serious things going on and science can tell us whether things are good or bad, let's drop the complete bullshit.
serge

Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2008, 03:06:34 AM »
Despite the inflammatory tone of the OP, these are generally nice people.  They aren't completely nutty and praying and blessing everything in sight.  They aren't fucked up fundamentalists or anything like that.  As a matter of fact, I didn't know they were even quite this vocally religious until these recent episodes. 

Sounds like my wife's family. My wife knows I'm not into religion like they are, so she's just taught me to smile, act polite, and not say anything to upset them.

That's probably how I'd handle it in less urgent situations.  When malignant brain tumors are in the equation, though, the whole dog and pony show is just frustrating and disgusting.  I want to know how he's doing, and whether I lie to them and say I'm praying or not, I'm not going to get a real answer that isn't fueled be religious idiocy.  There's serious things going on and science can tell us whether things are good or bad, let's drop the complete bullshit.

It sounds like they won't confront the truth and talk to you about it, though. Your best bet is to find another relative you can talk with about it, hopefully they have the answers you seek.
野球

TVC15

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2008, 03:12:08 AM »
Despite the inflammatory tone of the OP, these are generally nice people.  They aren't completely nutty and praying and blessing everything in sight.  They aren't fucked up fundamentalists or anything like that.  As a matter of fact, I didn't know they were even quite this vocally religious until these recent episodes. 

Sounds like my wife's family. My wife knows I'm not into religion like they are, so she's just taught me to smile, act polite, and not say anything to upset them.

That's probably how I'd handle it in less urgent situations.  When malignant brain tumors are in the equation, though, the whole dog and pony show is just frustrating and disgusting.  I want to know how he's doing, and whether I lie to them and say I'm praying or not, I'm not going to get a real answer that isn't fueled be religious idiocy.  There's serious things going on and science can tell us whether things are good or bad, let's drop the complete bullshit.

It sounds like they won't confront the truth and talk to you about it, though. Your best bet is to find another relative you can talk with about it, hopefully they have the answers you seek.

I don't have very many avenues to seek out the real deal.  My brother, who lives relatively close to them and has been decent about keeping in touch, has gotten basically the same rigmarole as I have.  Anyone else that might have relevant information is on the side of the family that we have generally become estranged from, and it's likely they have similar religious leanings.  I've been trying to piece together an optimal stab to get some information, and it will probably be carried out soon, but let's just say I'm not counting on this little pigeon to ever return.
serge

etiolate

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2008, 03:14:16 AM »
Just say you are concerned for him. It is the main honesty. 

Also, would your Uncle be just wanting prayers if he was able to say so? What are his wishes?

TVC15

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2008, 03:21:06 AM »
Just say you are concerned for him. It is the main honesty.

This is basically what I do, or I default to the "He's in my thoughts" line.  But when I have vocally talked to his wife and son, they prayer requests have been prominent to a degree that surprised me.  Personally, I think I have done a good job of deflecting; this whole discussion is probably just me over-thinking the protocol here.   If I say that I will pray, or that he is in my thoughts, I am sort of lying, which is completely not moral and not ethical and not appropriate for this situation.  if I actually be honest and tell them I don't pray, I am offending them.  This is a Catch 22.

Quote
Also, would your Uncle be just wanting prayers if he was able to say so? What are his wishes?

I don't particularly know at the moment.  Right now, he can't really speak and all communication is being carried on by other parties.  At the same time, I think he probably is religious.  He's an irish-american in his late 60s, so I can make a decent guess that he considers himself Christian.  To what degree, I do not know.  I don't always hate religious people--just when they let their faith get in the way of blatant reality.  If my beloved uncle is religious, good on him.  I kind of respect that.  If religion is keeping his wife from telling me that he is close to death, fuck her in her stupid, goddamn, irrational ass. 
serge

brawndolicious

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Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2008, 05:00:29 AM »
Well the best thing to do is to say that you are concerned about his mortality.  Just say "I want to know if he's going to die" and don't ask how much hope there is or how bad it is.  I'm not suggesting that you be mean or insult their beliefs in any way but this is a delicate situation since they're trying to be as religious as possible due to their husband or father being extremely sick. The only way to get a real answer is to be direct.

Re: How to deal with religious nutbags?
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2008, 05:06:07 AM »
...since they're trying to be as religious as possible due to their husband or father being extremely sick.

The Polynesians in Easter island did the same thing when their food output started declining. Look at where that got them.  :-\

TVC 15, maybe the best thing you can do is to bypass the family completely and talk with the medical practitioners in charge of your uncle's case.