REAL TALK: Obama's rightward swing is starting to get to me...

[Van Cruncheon]

i'm voting for feminist-communist 08 just to piss apf off

[TVC15]

i'm voting for feminist-communist 08 just to piss apf off

Hmmm, although all the burnt bras probably aren't good for the environment, this might trigger a return to the glorious torpedo and banana boob breast designs of yesteryear.

[MrAngryFace]

Ill take torpedos over bananas

[Van Cruncheon]

solanas-guevara '08!

[TakingBackSunday]

That pairing is still better than Paul-FoC-08

[TVC15]

solana-guevara '08!

I'd prefer Valerie Solanas and Lennon.

[Eric P]

in highschool civics we had to present our own party and platform and try to argue for it in the class to win.

other people chose lame-o's.  We ran Dick Gregory and Pigasus, but then my teacher told us it had to be a real person, so we chose Dick Gregory and Kurt Vonnegut.

[Human Snorenado]

in highschool civics we had to present our own party and platform and try to argue for it in the class to win.

other people chose lame-o's.  We ran Dick Gregory and Pigasus, but then my teacher told us it had to be a real person, so we chose Dick Gregory and Kurt Vonnegut.

Hunter S. Thompson wrote in Dick Gregory's name in 1968.  True story.

[Eric P]

that's because dick gregory is awesome his book "No More Lies" introduced me to black thought, and the idea that i may not be learning everything i need to in school.

i read this in middle school.  the book was, for whatever reason, in the middle school's library in central Texas.


 

[APF]

  You guys are incredible douchebags if you can't handle someone posting a single link from a liberal blog.  It's ok, I still love you though.

Drinky: as a former Hillary supporter Feminism doesn't scandalize me; try voting Nation of Islam / Islam instead?

[FlameOfCallandor]

[APF]

Yeah I saw that yesterday and thought the New Yorker's sense of irony will implode from the fact that their parody will end up exploiting the meme they wish to quash.  Reminds me of the "Saddam planned 9/11" meme that I still think breathless defenses against both created and perpetuated the erroneous idea more than anything the Bush Administration really said.

[FlameOfCallandor]

It's still funny.

[MrAngryFace]

APF and FoC, the two people evilbore doesnt really wanna talk politics with CAUSE THEY SOUND CRAZY

[Phoenix Dark]

yea it's crazy right

[APF]

MAF, if you can't coherently argue with mainstream ideas that mesh like 90% with your ideas--yet try anyway--it's not me who is crazy.  Why not follow your tactic of leaving the thread when you don't have anything intelligent to counter with?

[FlameOfCallandor]

[Tristam]

Yeah I saw that yesterday and thought the New Yorker's sense of irony will implode from the fact that their parody will end up exploiting the meme they wish to quash.  Reminds me of the "Saddam planned 9/11" meme that I still think breathless defenses against both created and perpetuated the erroneous idea more than anything the Bush Administration really said.

The New Yorker's circulation -- particularly among those who believe that Obama is a Muslim and his wife a militant -- is nowhere near great enough to exploit the meme.

Speaking of The New Yorker, it may ease Triumph's mind to know that Obama is merely attempting to win the presidency: http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2008/07/21/080721taco_talk_hertzberg

[Phoenix Dark]

Hertzberg was actually on Morning Joe today discussing his new article and it was amazing how the hosts attempted to frame the discussion, prefaced on a statement along the lines of "so we know Obama has flip flopped on a multitude of issues these last 3 weeks..." Hertz objected and began to lay out his argument - basically that outside of FISA, talk of Obama flip flops are grossly exaggerated. So of course Joe tried his best to stick to the narrative no matter what, eventually just ignoring Hertz until the segment was over 

I would say that FISA isn't the only "flip flop" we've seen (public finances and maybe the DC gun ban) but overall the dude is right

[FlameOfCallandor]

Almost every Liberal I know flip flopped on their gun opinion after Obama did.

[Mandark]

Reminds me of the "Saddam planned 9/11" meme that I still think breathless defenses against both created and perpetuated the erroneous idea more than anything the Bush Administration really said.

...

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

APF and FoC, the two people evilbore doesnt really wanna talk politics with CAUSE THEY SOUND CRAZY

FoC is god awful.  Even if he is correct about something, he goes about it the worst possible way.  So he sets it up on purpose to where you can never agree with him, regardless of your views on just about anything.

[Phoenix Dark]

APF and FoC, the two people evilbore doesnt really wanna talk politics with CAUSE THEY SOUND CRAZY

FoC is god awful.  Even if he is correct about something, he goes about it the worst possible way.  So he sets it up on purpose to where you can never agree with him, regardless of your views on just about anything.

The sun shines, what you don't believe it? Just because Ron Paul agrees the sun shines you disagree? Or don't you?

[TVC15]

APF and FoC, the two people evilbore doesnt really wanna talk politics with CAUSE THEY SOUND CRAZY

FoC is god awful.  Even if he is correct about something, he goes about it the worst possible way.  So he sets it up on purpose to where you can never agree with him, regardless of your views on just about anything.

The sun shines, what you don't believe it? Just because Ron Paul agrees the sun shines you disagree? Or don't you?

Proof?

[APF]

Yeah I saw that yesterday and thought the New Yorker's sense of irony will implode from the fact that their parody will end up exploiting the meme they wish to quash.  Reminds me of the "Saddam planned 9/11" meme that I still think breathless defenses against both created and perpetuated the erroneous idea more than anything the Bush Administration really said.

The New Yorker's circulation -- particularly among those who believe that Obama is a Muslim and his wife a militant -- is nowhere near great enough to exploit the meme.

The New Yorker is a prestige publication that helps set the news trends just as much as the paper or record or other major publications (see: Abu Ghraib), and is in magazine racks country-wide (disclaimer though: I used to work at the publisher).  Plus, the resulting shitstorm from the Obama camp, who are fully enmeshed in constant hairtrigger rapid-response paranoia, has ensured my point stands.  Obama flipping out can easily be further exploited just by reminding people of the response to the Jyllands-Posten cartoons; unfair though that comparison might be, you still have to pick your fights and measure your responses wisely.

[APF]

[Phoenix Dark]

 

[FlameOfCallandor]

Its not that liberals are Irony challenged like the photo suggests, its just that humor par of their brain is dwarfed by their Politically Correct Lobe which overrides all functions of a liberal brain when activated.

[tiesto]

Its not that liberals are Irony challenged like the photo suggests, its just that humor par of their brain is dwarfed by their Politically Correct Lobe which overrides all functions of a liberal brain when activated.

Hmm, usually hipsters, known for their irony, are liberal... so you can't say all libs are irony-challenged.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I didnt say it the political cartoon that APF posted did.

[TVC15]

I didnt say it the political cartoon that APF posted did.

That cartoon says literalists, not liberals.

[Flannel Boy]

I didnt say it the political cartoon that APF posted did.

That cartoon says literalists, not liberals.

Literalists 1
Illiterates 0

[FlameOfCallandor]

I didnt say it the political cartoon that APF posted did.

That cartoon says literalists, not liberals.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and bare with me cause this might be a stretch. But I would assume, correct me if I am wrong, that the majority of people that were outraged by the cover are liberals. Shocking, i know.

[TVC15]

I didnt say it the political cartoon that APF posted did.

That cartoon says literalists, not liberals.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and bare with me cause this might be a stretch. But I would assume, correct me if I am wrong, that the majority of people that were outraged by the cover are liberals. Shocking, i know.

I don't think that is necessarily true.  I think the people that would be "outraged" or buy into a literal reading of the cover are those that are unfamiliar with the magazine in general, regardless of political affiliation.  But the point here is that you can't read.

[Phoenix Dark]

More evidence against the "Obama Iraq flip flop" narrative
http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000002916707

[APF]

I thought it said Uterists and the cartoonist was a neologism-spewing misogynist.

[Eric P]

I thought it said Uterists and the cartoonist was a neologism-spewing misogynist.

that's Miss Ogynist to you, young man

[laesperanzapaz]

I didnt say it the political cartoon that APF posted did.

That cartoon says literalists, not liberals.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and bare with me cause this might be a stretch. But I would assume, correct me if I am wrong, that the majority of people that were outraged by the cover are liberals. Shocking, i know.

I don't think that is necessarily true.  I think the people that would be "outraged" or buy into a literal reading of the cover are those that are unfamiliar with the magazine in general, regardless of political affiliation.  But the point here is that you can't read.

oh burn

[FlameOfCallandor]

I didnt say it the political cartoon that APF posted did.

That cartoon says literalists, not liberals.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and bare with me cause this might be a stretch. But I would assume, correct me if I am wrong, that the majority of people that were outraged by the cover are liberals. Shocking, i know.

I don't think that is necessarily true.  I think the people that would be "outraged" or buy into a literal reading of the cover are those that are unfamiliar with the magazine in general, regardless of political affiliation.  But the point here is that you can't read.

You really think that non-liberals are offended by this?  Dude get a grip on reality.

They might be confused by it, but offended. Even you know better than that.

[TVC15]

I didnt say it the political cartoon that APF posted did.

That cartoon says literalists, not liberals.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and bare with me cause this might be a stretch. But I would assume, correct me if I am wrong, that the majority of people that were outraged by the cover are liberals. Shocking, i know.

I don't think that is necessarily true.  I think the people that would be "outraged" or buy into a literal reading of the cover are those that are unfamiliar with the magazine in general, regardless of political affiliation.  But the point here is that you can't read.

You really think that non-liberals are offended by this?  Dude get a grip on reality.

They might be confused by it, but offended. Even you know better than that.

Don't twist my words.  I said "outraged" or "buy into."  And these aren't even the only two possible positions.  For example, I personally get the irony of the picture, but I still think it was somewhat irresponsible of the New Yorker to put it on the cover of their magazine, since their editors must know that the audience that sees their covers is much larger than the audience that actually reads or knows the magazine's tone.  If this were a political cartoon inside the magazine somewhere, the chances of it getting put on the front page of the Drudge Report and thus exposed to an immense audience would have been rather small.

Get a grip on reality?  How about you think of something from all perspectives before you give a short and thoughtless, pithy reply. 

[Eric P]

Naomi Klein gets the whole hour on Democracy Now to do her thang.
Klein has long been the premiere journalist (with her book No Logo and
her documentary The Take) of the anti-globalization movement and her
last book, The Shock Doctrine, gave us some great new language for
talking about crisis and the global system. She spend the entire hour
going piece by piece through the energy, food, and housing crises and
putting them all together in a really solid coherent picture along
with a pretty radical critique of Obama.

http://www.democracynow.org/shows/2008/7/15

[Human Snorenado]

Naomi Klein gets the whole hour on Democracy Now to do her thang.
Klein has long been the premiere journalist (with her book No Logo and
her documentary The Take) of the anti-globalization movement and her
last book, The Shock Doctrine, gave us some great new language for
talking about crisis and the global system. She spend the entire hour
going piece by piece through the energy, food, and housing crises and
putting them all together in a really solid coherent picture along
with a pretty radical critique of Obama.

http://www.democracynow.org/shows/2008/7/15

Plus, I want to bone her.

[Eric P]

oh god yes

[APF]

Why is the implication it's irresponsible to publish irony that may be misinterpreted, but not direct attacks that won't be misinterpreted? The New Yorker has done outright political covers many many times in the past, as have many many other publications.

[siamesedreamer]

Cuz Obama's like the Messiah and shit...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/opinion/16dowd.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[TVC15]

Why is the implication it's irresponsible to publish irony that may be misinterpreted, but not direct attacks that won't be misinterpreted? The New Yorker has done outright political covers many many times in the past, as have many many other publications.

Without putting too much thought into this, I think it's a function of time--it was only a few (2-3) months ago when we were reading hilariously awful comments from 'merkins about how Obama's wife is an atheist and Obama is a muslim.  There's no way of knowing how far such misconceptions are actually spread (i'd hope not far at all), but I find it somewhat irksome.

Also, I personally found the cartoon a bit gaudy.  I mentioned being irresponsible and misconceptions, but the more I think about it, the more I think The New Yorker probably wanted this "outrage" for whatever reason.

[APF]

Cuz Obama's like the Messiah and shit...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/opinion/16dowd.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Here's another NYT article on the same subject: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/15/us/politics/15humor.html?th&emc=th


TVC: I think part of the problem is (aside from the question of whether the cover is tacky or whatever), people really feel this is a genuine vulnerability of Obama's for some reason, and get extremely defensive because there's some undefined quasi-racist quality to the accusation / misapprehension.

[APF]

Also related, re: humorlessness and the paranoid clamping-down on anything that might be seen to budge media image regardless of intention:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=327435

[TVC15]

TVC: I think part of the problem is (aside from the question of whether the cover is tacky or whatever), people really feel this is a genuine vulnerability of Obama's for some reason, and get extremely defensive because there's some undefined quasi-racist quality to the accusation / misapprehension.

I think it pretty much is an arguable vulnerability.  Much of America does not inspire me with confidence.

[Human Snorenado]

TVC: I think part of the problem is (aside from the question of whether the cover is tacky or whatever), people really feel this is a genuine vulnerability of Obama's for some reason, and get extremely defensive because there's some undefined quasi-racist quality to the accusation / misapprehension.

I think it pretty much is an arguable vulnerability.  Much of America does not inspire me with confidence.

Exactly.  Double digits in all polls think the dude is a Muslim.  How is this not a valid concern?  Granted those people aren't liable to be New Yorker readers, but they might watch news.  Maybe.

[Eric P]

Naomi Klein gets the whole hour on Democracy Now to do her thang.
Klein has long been the premiere journalist (with her book No Logo and
her documentary The Take) of the anti-globalization movement and her
last book, The Shock Doctrine, gave us some great new language for
talking about crisis and the global system. She spend the entire hour
going piece by piece through the energy, food, and housing crises and
putting them all together in a really solid coherent picture along
with a pretty radical critique of Obama.

http://www.democracynow.org/shows/2008/7/15

i'm listening to this now and once more i am made alternately apoplectic and just so fucking soul crushingly sad.

[APF]

TVC: I think part of the problem is (aside from the question of whether the cover is tacky or whatever), people really feel this is a genuine vulnerability of Obama's for some reason, and get extremely defensive because there's some undefined quasi-racist quality to the accusation / misapprehension.

I think it pretty much is an arguable vulnerability.  Much of America does not inspire me with confidence.

Exactly.  Double digits in all polls think the dude is a Muslim.

And what though?

[Tristam]

TVC: I think part of the problem is (aside from the question of whether the cover is tacky or whatever), people really feel this is a genuine vulnerability of Obama's for some reason, and get extremely defensive because there's some undefined quasi-racist quality to the accusation / misapprehension.

I think it pretty much is an arguable vulnerability.  Much of America does not inspire me with confidence.

Exactly.  Double digits in all polls think the dude is a Muslim.

And what though?

Feigning ignorance, APF? If Obama is thought to be Muslim by >10% of the electorate, his electability is undoubtedly going to take a massive hit.

[APF]

Are you feigning ignorance, Tristam? First you ask your question as though it is a hypothetical situation that Obama is alleged to be a closeted Muslim; second you act as though it is unknown what Obama's electability is in this election.

[Eric P]

The Obama campaign has tried to cloak the Illinois senator's trip in some measure of secrecy for security reasons. The White House, State Department and Pentagon do not announce senior officials' visits to Iraq in advance.

"I believe that either today or tomorrow -- and I'm not privy to his schedule -- Sen. Obama will be landing in Iraq with some other senators" who make up a congressional delegation, McCain told a campaign fund-raising luncheon.

http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed7/idUSN1819664920080718

[Phoenix Dark]

i just hope nothing happens over there. kinda wish he'd just stay here 

[APF]

'Time' Publishes Definitive Obama Puff Piece

The 24-page profile features the most lack-of-depth reporting on Obama ever published, and has helped to redefine the boundaries of journalistic drivel.

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/time_publishes_definitive_obama

[Brehvolution]

TVC: I think part of the problem is (aside from the question of whether the cover is tacky or whatever), people really feel this is a genuine vulnerability of Obama's for some reason, and get extremely defensive because there's some undefined quasi-racist quality to the accusation / misapprehension.

I think it pretty much is an arguable vulnerability.  Much of America does not inspire me with confidence.

Exactly.  Double digits in all polls think the dude is a Muslim.

And what though?

Feigning ignorance, APF? If Obama is thought to be Muslim by >10% of the electorate, his electability is undoubtedly going to take a massive hit.

I thought America had Free Religion.  Or are we actually religioinists?

[Eric P]

i dunno

the mormons have so much religion they go door to door trying to get rid of it all.

you'd think the invisible hand would take care of them in a free religion market

[APF]

It does in Scientology's case.