Author Topic: Show me your RAGE, seriously (Read 22987 times)

MCD · « **Reply #60 on:** July 19, 2008, 01:43:33 PM »

Quote from: Professor Prole on July 19, 2008, 01:41:59 PM

LOOK GUYS KILLZONE 2 DEPTH-OF-FIELD EFFECTS OMG OMG OMG THERE MUST BE SOMETHING MAGIC ABOUT CELLLLLLL

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12045913&postcount=163

Quote from: Truespeed

If you had any worthwhile technical knowledge then we would have seen an example of it by now. So far all we've seen are little quips of ignorance from a condescending little boy that can't seem to construct messages illustrating his comprehension of console technology.

To put it another way - you probably couldn't even get into the Derek Smart Academy of Game Development and Design.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #61 on:** July 19, 2008, 01:46:30 PM »

i drank so much i forgot how to program against massively parallel architectures :'(

JustinP · « **Reply #62 on:** July 19, 2008, 01:50:07 PM »

Quote from: dcharlie on July 19, 2008, 06:29:12 AM

Quote
One of the most respected developers in the world just went on record (yet again, for the Nth consecutive time) that PS3 is the lowest common denominator in his game. And this is NeoGAF of all places - and you're surprised people argue over it?

it's not just the lowest common denominator for him though is it? let's face it - beyond -one- criterion game and every sony 1st party, this is pretty much the truth right now. PS3 -is- the lowest common denominator... how can you take offense from that statement?
smh @ Bronze medalists

the problem arises when ps3 fanboys and ps3 trolls alike try to come to the conclusion that lowest common demoninator for multiplatform game = least powerful console. most developers learned and trained in a system more similar to 360/PC, so more often than not, the PS3 is going to be the least common demonimator because they built it for 360/PC architecture and tried to port it to the PS3, which needs a different architecture to run as effeciently. burnout paradise was designed first for PS3, and what-do-ya-know, the tables turned and 360 was the "lowest common demoninator" for that game. if you want to get an idea for a console's power, you can really only look at exclusive games that aren't trying to be coded for two different architectures at the same time and inevitably have to make compromises on one. carmack is a genius but he's still making a multiplatform game with PC as the base (which more easily translates to 360/mac because of the nature of these platforms) and instead of devoting his own attention to ps3, he hired some naughty dog people to do the work. i'm not discrediting carmack--but just like valve's Gabe Newell, he's finding trouble getting the same engine to perform on ps3 and he expresses that difficulty.

of course, some people cop out and say no exclusive 360 game developer ever tries to push the console like ps3 exclusives do. hell, it could be true, but that doesn't make multiplatform comparisons any less useless.

i think you guys are a bit lame obsessing over what people on another internet forum are talking about though

. i mean, i get shit for talking about the opinion of PA and you guys are making a big deal over random nobodies.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #63 on:** July 19, 2008, 01:54:42 PM »

the point is that the folks anticipating anything other than -- at the very best -- a marginal performance improvement in games written for the ps3 over the 360 is delusional and should likewise reconsider why they bought a ps3 in the first place. in fact, in most cases, they should anticipate slightly decreased performance, although if you get a serious hard-on for a more consistent application of anisotropic filtering, GO GO PS3

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #64 on:** July 19, 2008, 01:57:03 PM »

Quote from: JustinP on July 19, 2008, 01:50:07 PM

i'm not discrediting carmack--but just like valve's Gabe Newell, he's finding trouble getting the same engine to perform on ps3 and he expresses that difficulty.

occam's razor says that roughly equal performance to 360 plus a difficult architecture plus shitty api design = reduced performance versus 360 and increased developer headaches

JustinP · « **Reply #65 on:** July 19, 2008, 01:58:42 PM »

Quote from: Professor Prole on July 19, 2008, 01:54:42 PM

the point is that the folks anticipating anything other than -- at the very best -- a marginal performance improvement in games written for the ps3 over the 360 is delusional and should likewise reconsider why they bought a ps3 in the first place. in fact, in most cases, they should anticipate slightly decreased performance, although if you get a serious hard-on for a more consistent application of anisotropic filtering, GO GO PS3

PS3 users get multiplatform games that are typically very close to their 360 counterpart and PS3 users get exclusive games that really shine above anything else on consoles. It's really not as bad of a deal as you try to paint it as.

duckman2000 · « **Reply #66 on:** July 19, 2008, 01:59:29 PM »

Quote from: JustinP on July 19, 2008, 01:50:07 PM

the problem arises when ps3 fanboys and ps3 trolls alike try to come to the conclusion that lowest common demoninator for multiplatform game = least powerful console.

The problem is that people give a shit about which is, or is not, the least (or most) powerful console. I'm seeing a bunch of really shit hot games on both consoles, many multi-platform games are good looking enough and close enough in quality between versions to make bitter comparisons seem outright comical, and now we have Rage here, designed for parity and still jaw-droppingly awesome. Even as a PC gamer, I'm not particularly dissatisfied with what I'm seeing on either of the consoles now, and I honestly couldn't give a shit how or through what trials of fire the developers have reached this point, or how powerful exactly these systems are.

Quote from: Professor Prole on July 19, 2008, 01:54:42 PM

the point is that the folks anticipating anything other than -- at the very best -- a marginal performance improvement in games written for the ps3 over the 360 is delusional and should likewise reconsider why they bought a ps3 in the first place. in fact, in most cases, they should anticipate slightly decreased performance, although if you get a serious hard-on for a more consistent application of anisotropic filtering, GO GO PS3

I'm pretty sure your common reasonable person bought a PS3 because of interest in games that can't be found elsewhere. At least that was my reasoning. Increased reliability and more sophisticated hardware design overall is a good thing, but those are merely counter-points to strengths of the competing console. I like Insomniac and Sucker Punch, and classic Sony IPs like Wipeout. Because I don't own a 360 right now, I obviously wish the system wasn't so unapproachable to multiplatform developers, but still, that's really nothing new.

Crushed · « **Reply #67 on:** July 19, 2008, 02:18:43 PM »

Quote from: Professor Prole on July 19, 2008, 01:41:59 PM

LOOK GUYS KILLZONE 2 DEPTH-OF-FIELD EFFECTS OMG OMG OMG THERE MUST BE SOMETHING MAGIC ABOUT CELLLLLLL

first screenshot of ffvii remake

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

drohne · « **Reply #68 on:** July 19, 2008, 07:24:56 PM »

i don't understand the virulence over 360/ps3 technical differences -- they're probably closer in performance than any two competing consoles ever. it would be impressive that microsoft achieved technical parity a year early and $200 cheaper, except that they launched the console well before they could build it to a remotely acceptable standard. i mean, i'm fascinated with version comparisons, but i'm a weirdo with too much time on his hands, and i don't get angry about that shit

cool breeze · « **Reply #69 on:** July 19, 2008, 07:25:06 PM »

Quote

Burnout paradise descission to go PS3 as base resulting in the game being over 1 year late, massively overbudget, at one point had a team of 150~ people working on it, cost an absolute fortune and has basically seen Criterion all but disolved with a load of people booted out , left, or reassigned to other machines.

Is this actually a fact or are you assuming? Would it be like me assuming the downfall of Lucasarts was due to The Force Unleashed leading on the PS3?

Tabasco · « **Reply #70 on:** July 19, 2008, 07:33:24 PM »

I had always thought the delays w/Paradise were from the decision to go open-world

Guess that sheds some light as to why they are lingering with updates and a PC port, and not moving on to the next project. Not that I'm not appreciative of the awesome post-release support.

@drohne The XBOX made it's name as being the place for console tech snobs. Progressive scan and 5.1 in 99% of games (it's why I did 95% of my gaming last gen on XBOX). I didn't really follow gaming forums until ~2004, but I guess the XBOX guys rubbed it in the faces of the PS2 fans. So when Sony had that crazy 2005 E3, the shoe was presumably on the other foot. But here we are 3 years later, and there's no clear victor. So the Xbots still cling to their tech supremacy, and, like you said, PS3 fans aren't going to say they paid an extra $200 for similar performance.

drohne · « **Reply #71 on:** July 19, 2008, 10:03:52 PM »

i don't remember seeing nearly as much pseudotechnical griping last gen, though maybe i wasn't reading the right forums. and as you said, the difference between xbox and ps2 was actually pretty substantial

edit: wait, just remembered the whole dreamcast/ps2 thing, which probably set permanent records for pseudotechnical forum griping

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #72 on:** July 19, 2008, 10:15:40 PM »

Tabasco · « **Reply #73 on:** July 20, 2008, 01:13:05 AM »

Quote from: dcharlie on July 19, 2008, 10:23:39 PM

Quote
i don't remember seeing nearly as much pseudotechnical griping last gen

no matter what the GC or Xbox produced, the PS2 could do it - no question. That was the usual horse shit last gen.

RE4 on GC: Letterboxed
RE4 on PS2: Widescreen

ps2

Hitler Stole My Potato · « **Reply #74 on:** July 20, 2008, 01:14:45 AM »

Quote from: dcharlie on July 19, 2008, 10:23:39 PM

Quote
i don't remember seeing nearly as much pseudotechnical griping last gen

no matter what the GC or Xbox produced, the PS2 could do it - no question. That was the usual horse shit last gen.

Look at all dem particles!

Oblivion · « **Reply #75 on:** July 20, 2008, 02:41:35 PM »

My troll in that Carmack thread on GAF seems to have gone unnoticed. :'(

AdmiralViscen · « **Reply #76 on:** July 20, 2008, 02:52:42 PM »

Quote from: drohne on July 19, 2008, 10:03:52 PM

i don't remember seeing nearly as much pseudotechnical griping last gen, though maybe i wasn't reading the right forums. and as you said, the difference between xbox and ps2 was actually pretty substantial

edit: wait, just remembered the whole dreamcast/ps2 thing, which probably set permanent records for pseudotechnical forum griping

You didn't see griping because no one was stupid enough to say XBOX was weaker than PS2. Like you said, this gen they are largely neck and neck, so now everyone gets to push that little 5% of difference back and forth across the battle lines.

Oblivion · « **Reply #77 on:** July 20, 2008, 03:14:35 PM »

Quote from: dcharlie on July 19, 2008, 10:23:39 PM

Quote
i don't remember seeing nearly as much pseudotechnical griping last gen

no matter what the GC or Xbox produced, the PS2 could do it - no question. That was the usual horse shit last gen.

What could either the 360 or PS3 do that the other one can't?

y2kev · « **Reply #78 on:** July 20, 2008, 03:15:12 PM »

Quote from: Oblivion on July 20, 2008, 03:14:35 PM

Quote from: dcharlie on July 19, 2008, 10:23:39 PM
Quote
i don't remember seeing nearly as much pseudotechnical griping last gen

no matter what the GC or Xbox produced, the PS2 could do it - no question. That was the usual horse shit last gen.

What could either the 360 or PS3 do that the other one can't?

heat haze

(i'm sure prole can list some DX9/10 effects or something)

MCD · « **Reply #79 on:** July 20, 2008, 03:20:11 PM »

UNIFIED SHADERS

lol.

Himu · « **Reply #80 on:** July 20, 2008, 03:33:15 PM »

why the hate for the game's art? that dude with the helmet/mask and goggles..shit, that reminds me of nausicaa.

Draft · « **Reply #81 on:** July 20, 2008, 03:41:46 PM »

I LOVE the art. Love it.

I think it has a very European comic/Heavy Metal feel to it.

Hitler Stole My Potato · « **Reply #82 on:** July 20, 2008, 04:03:38 PM »

"Rage will be shit because Carmack's DOOM 3 was shit."

Coming from someone that's eagerly awaiting Killzone 2 from Guerrilla, the devlopers of the first Killzone.

Himu · « **Reply #83 on:** July 20, 2008, 04:10:54 PM »

yeah i love the art as well draft. i guess only awesomes "get" this game's art

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #84 on:** July 20, 2008, 04:17:02 PM »

So basically Sgaf is still the same ol' shitty forum. What else is new?

I don't know why you guys keep going back to it. I haven't even bothered reading it for a few months.

All the important news are reposted here anyway.

Draft · « **Reply #85 on:** July 20, 2008, 04:45:20 PM »

Quote from: Himuro on July 20, 2008, 04:10:54 PM

yeah i love the art as well draft. i guess only awesomes "get" this game's art

Euro comic art. It's the shit.

Himu · « **Reply #86 on:** July 20, 2008, 04:48:47 PM »

I'd like to get into euro comics.

the mask guy reminds me of this:

...somehow

Draft · « **Reply #87 on:** July 20, 2008, 04:56:42 PM »

Mask guy is drawn by Moebius, who's like the most famous Euro comic artist who ever lived.

Fun fact: he designed the characters and monsters and environments of the early Panzer Dragoon games.

I think Miyazaki character designs show clearly Moebius influence, but maybe that's just me.

drohne · « **Reply #88 on:** July 20, 2008, 05:09:45 PM »

iirc moebius didn't actually design the panzer 1 stuff -- he was comissioned to do some illustrations for it after the fact. but in any case, you can definitely see his influence on panzer

edit: found an interview snippet to that effect

Quote

Xbox Nation: How did the renowned French artist Moebius fit into the Panzer Dragoon creative process?

Takashi Iwade: Back then the team members were big fans of Moebius, and what actually happened is that Sega developed all of the game's enemies and bosses, and sent them to Moebius, who had been commissioned to do some illustrative art. He interpreted the designs and the results became the cover art for the Japanese release.

Kentaro Yoshida: As we were such big fans of Moebius, we were surprised with the results because they were not as abstract as we expected. It was very in keeping with the game.

Draft · « **Reply #89 on:** July 20, 2008, 05:17:20 PM »

Wow, I did not know that. The series definitely has that crazy ass Euro look, so I had always assumed he was behind it.

Anyway, bottom line, nobody does colorful post apocalypse like the Europeans, so anyone aping their art style for a post apoc game is on the right track, artistically.

duckman2000 · « **Reply #90 on:** July 20, 2008, 07:04:51 PM »

Euro comic art? I'm not seeing that at all. But hey. Looks pretty uninspired to me, baseline mutant and outcast characters in typical barren dust environments, a pretty safe go-to format all around.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #91 on:** July 20, 2008, 07:16:35 PM »

as safe as nazi thugs in gas masks with glowing red eyes? come on, you've praised killzone's completely genre-safe art direction time and time again; let's not play the game of convenient hypocrisy now. post-apocalyptic visuals are definitely a breath of fresh air compared to modern-future military fetishism and olive/dun thematics.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #92 on:** July 20, 2008, 07:19:59 PM »

Pwned

Professor Prole's 16 INT

duckman2000 · « **Reply #93 on:** July 20, 2008, 07:33:50 PM »

Quote from: Professor Prole on July 20, 2008, 07:16:35 PM

as safe as nazi thigs in gas masks with glowing red eyes? come on, you've praised killzone's completely genre-safe art direction time and time again; let's not play the game of convenient hypocrisy now. post-apocalyptic visuals are definitely a breath of fresh air compared to modern-future military fetishism and olive/dun thematics.

I don't think I have specifically praised the "nazi things in gas masks" so much as I've praised the smart usage of war proven symbolism and the overall artistic direction (and craftsmanship), but isn't that sort of irrelevant? I never said this wasn't good or that it was not striking, but original? I'm not seeing that at all.

Draft · « **Reply #94 on:** July 20, 2008, 07:59:26 PM »

Quote from: duckman2000 on July 20, 2008, 07:04:51 PM

Euro comic art? I'm not seeing that at all. But hey. Looks pretty uninspired to me, baseline mutant and outcast characters in typical barren dust environments, a pretty safe go-to format all around.

Sfag scum. Typical barren dust environment, natch. Uninspired. Why not just call it generic and complete your journey to the darkside.

MCD · « **Reply #95 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:01:21 PM »

i don't know about art and shit but i like the character modeling, i mean compare that woman face to UE3 and you will get what i mean lol.

CHOW CHOW · « **Reply #96 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:07:35 PM »

There's nothing wrong with the art. It looks fine. Hell, we've only seen like two characters (the guy with the hat and the sloth look-a-like).

BlueTsunami · « **Reply #97 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:09:03 PM »

Whether the art is inspired or not, RAGE blows away all the shit we've seen with the possible exception to Crysis. Also, this is iD showcasing their engine, its not like all RAGE games will look exactly the same (as UE3 has shown). I would love to see this engine in some other hands.

Draft · « **Reply #98 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:13:15 PM »

If there's any justice in this world, Raven is right now working on Jedi Knight 3 with Rage.

My God.

My fucking God. Can you imagine?

cool breeze · « **Reply #99 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:14:41 PM »

Quote from: Draft on July 20, 2008, 08:13:15 PM

If there's any justice in this world, Raven is right now working on Jedi Knight 3 with Rage.

My God.

My fucking God. Can you imagine?

Yes.

But no more Kyle.

Crushed · « **Reply #100 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:16:08 PM »

I propose that according to the new Evilbore PC Alliance Constitution, all future PC games must be made using id Tech 5, Source, or CryEngine 2.

cool breeze · « **Reply #101 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:17:35 PM »

Source is kind of old now. I actually am hoping that HL2 ep 3 comes out soon so they can retire that engine and work on something new for HL3 or whatever other game that would feature it.

JustinP · « **Reply #102 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:18:44 PM »

i'm digging it.

if you want a game with generic, boring character designs. just look at mirror's edge.

Crushed · « **Reply #103 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:20:42 PM »

Quote from: JustinP on July 20, 2008, 08:18:44 PM

i'm digging it. but as far as visually stunning games go, killzone 2 is still the top dog.

if you want a game with generic, boring character designs. just look at mirror's edge.

oh my god

BlueTsunami · « **Reply #104 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:24:25 PM »

Mirror's Edge is the exact opposite of generic. I can't argue with boring since that's, like, your opinion man. But generic?

JustinP · « **Reply #105 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:25:21 PM »

Quote from: Crushed on July 20, 2008, 08:20:42 PM

Quote from: JustinP on July 20, 2008, 08:18:44 PM
i'm digging it. but as far as visually stunning games go, killzone 2 is still the top dog.

if you want a game with generic, boring character designs. just look at mirror's edge.

oh my god

i wasn't saying KZ2 has original or unique character designs. i was replying to bluetsunami's post about RAGE being better than all but crysis. good jon taking half my sentence and trying to spin it though

. i removed the line so i could write a seperate reply.

Jansen · « **Reply #106 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:26:32 PM »

looks utterly fantastic and 60fps?

they better ship killzone 2 before this or else it'll make guerilla look bad. real bad.

JustinP · « **Reply #107 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:26:40 PM »

Quote from: BlueTsunami on July 20, 2008, 08:24:25 PM

Mirror's Edge is the exact opposite of generic. I can't argue with boring since that's, like, your opinion man. But generic?

are you fucking stupid? those soldiers in mirror's edge practically define generic. it's a swat officer and a generic police guy from the future.

BlueTsunami · « **Reply #108 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:27:17 PM »

blah blah blah

Killzone 2 rocks. Glowing eyes and they look like Nazi's. PS3, so awesome!

cool breeze · « **Reply #109 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:28:12 PM »

Quote from: Wicked Laharl on July 20, 2008, 08:26:32 PM

looks utterly fantastic and 60fps?

they better ship killzone 2 before this or else it'll make guerilla look bad. real bad.

That would be the same for almost everything in terms of graphics. The only person I think this puts pressure on is Crytek if they ever planned to put out a console Crysis game.

Crushed · « **Reply #110 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:28:45 PM »

Quote from: JustinP on July 20, 2008, 08:25:21 PM

Quote from: Crushed on July 20, 2008, 08:20:42 PM
Quote from: JustinP on July 20, 2008, 08:18:44 PM
i'm digging it. but as far as visually stunning games go, killzone 2 is still the top dog.

if you want a game with generic, boring character designs. just look at mirror's edge.

oh my god
i wasn't saying KZ2 has original or unique character designs. i was replying to bluetsunami's post about RAGE being better than all but crysis. good jon taking half my sentence and trying to spin it though (Image removed from quote.). i removed the line so i could write a seperate reply.

That's what I was referring to, though, not character design. KZ2 is not better looking than RAGE.

Draft · « **Reply #111 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:29:06 PM »

But give that swat guy a trench coat and some red shit on his eyes and LOOK OUT.

Jansen · « **Reply #112 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:30:24 PM »

but mirror's edge is going for a contemporary design. as such those designs fit.

BlueTsunami · « **Reply #113 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:30:28 PM »

Apparently, to dyfb, if it ain't glowin or using some obnoxious filter effect, it ain't artistic.

Quote from: Draft on July 20, 2008, 08:29:06 PM

But give that swat guy a trench coat and some red shit on his eyes and LOOK OUT.

Seriously

MCD · « **Reply #114 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:31:12 PM »

Quote from: Draft on July 20, 2008, 08:29:06 PM

But give that swat guy a trench coat and some red shit on his eyes and LOOK OUT.

insert motion blur

Crushed · « **Reply #115 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:33:45 PM »

Quote from: BlueTsunami on July 20, 2008, 08:30:28 PM

Apparently, to dyfb, if it ain't glowin or using some obnoxious filter effect, it ain't artistic.

Quote from: Draft on July 20, 2008, 08:29:06 PM
But give that swat guy a trench coat and some red shit on his eyes and LOOK OUT.

Seriously

BAD:

GOOD:

cool breeze · « **Reply #116 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:35:06 PM »

Killzone 2, Rage, and Mirror's Edge all look awesome. Mirror's Edge is going for that style on purpose. Killzone 2 is jacking the Jin-Roh designs, but that is a good thing. Rage has good original designs.

JustinP · « **Reply #117 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:35:20 PM »

Quote from: Wicked Laharl on July 20, 2008, 08:30:24 PM

but mirror's edge is going for a contemporary design. as such those designs fit.

i didn't say they didn't fit. i said they were generic. which they are. there's absolutely NOTHING interesting with those designs.

RAGE is nice, but it's got a little more competition than crysis. the killzone 2 hate on this forum is absolutely pitiful

.

Jansen · « **Reply #118 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:38:43 PM »

<--clicky

BlueTsunami · « **Reply #119 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:39:29 PM »

Quote from: Crushed on July 20, 2008, 08:33:45 PM

Quote from: BlueTsunami on July 20, 2008, 08:30:28 PM
Apparently, to dyfb, if it ain't glowin or using some obnoxious filter effect, it ain't artistic.

Quote from: Draft on July 20, 2008, 08:29:06 PM
But give that swat guy a trench coat and some red shit on his eyes and LOOK OUT.

Seriously
BAD:
(Image removed from quote.)

GOOD:
(Image removed from quote.)

You see how you can't even enjoy the detail in the improved shot? See how it tries to painfully differentiate itself with filters? Now that's what I call interesting

News:

Author Topic: Show me your RAGE, seriously (Read 22987 times)