LittleBigWallet

[Crushed]

Make cool levels? Then ask Media Molecule if you can sell them!

It's like if YouTube gave everyone with director status the ability to charge for their films. 

[JustinP]

actually it's not anything like that.  there are no limitations for people becoming directors on youtube. 

[cool breeze]

While I don't think this is a great idea and that there are better ways of handling it, I don't think it is some horrible idea.

Why is this an issue? We can just make shit maps called blank_NEOGAF and make a fortune.

You can't.  You would first need to make tons of great levels first, then MM needs to approve that you aren't some half-wit who got lucky, then you will be given the chance to earn money for other levels you make.

[duckman2000]

Yeah, lord knows it's a bad thing to reward extraordinary efforts with publicity and phat loot.

[Crushed]

Yeah, lord knows it's a bad thing to reward extraordinary efforts with publicity and phat loot.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

PLEASE PAY $5 TO READ THIS POST

[close]

[demi]

Nobody's going to pay for anything.

[MCD]

Nobody's going to pay for anything.

Up to and including LBP itself.

nailed it.

[laesperanzapaz]

lol

year of the PS3

raising gaming experiences by lowering expectations

sony, company of japan, japan of company

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Wow. Way to fuck your super promising game in the ass.

[cool breeze]

I want to see how this pans out.  I still think this could be done handled in a better way.

[pilonv1]

obviously MM can't design a decent level themselves so they needed to take this route

[JustinP]

i haven't seen a single legitimate reason for why this is a bad thing.  

not surprised to see undeserved LBP hate on this forum, either. 

[duckman2000]

lol

year of the PS3

raising gaming experiences by lowering expectations

sony, company of japan, japan of company

Wow. Way to fuck your super promising game in the ass.

obviously MM can't design a decent level themselves so they needed to take this route

[Crushed]

not surprised to see undeserved LBP hate on this forum, either.

Oh dear, dyfb is hallucinating another anti-Sony conspiracy. Someone give him his sedatives.

Nobody's hating LBP. We're hating the idea of making a "create and share" concept and then introducing "but you have to pay for the best stuff."

[demi]

If I wanted to make shit and charge for it, I would have done it on the PC instead

[duckman2000]

not surprised to see undeserved LBP hate on this forum, either.

Oh dear, dyfb is hallucinating another anti-Sony conspiracy. Someone give him his sedatives.

Nobody's hating LBP. We're hating the idea of making a "create and share" concept and then introducing "but you have to pay for the best stuff."

Funny this, I welcome the idea of actually, possibly, being paid for the stuff I make. I work with graphic design, I intend on making levels for this game, so it'd be nice to actually get some recognition for it, if it's up to the standards they are looking for. This might push quite a few projects that would otherwise had been merely good, into being great.

[demi]

Thats because you are a greedy person. You should contribute freely to the community.

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Yeah, lord knows it's a bad thing to reward extraordinary efforts with publicity and phat loot.

[duckman2000]

Thats because you are a greedy person. You should contribute freely to the community.

You bastards are a bunch of hippies, communists and general cheapwads. Make some money!

[cool breeze]

obviously MM can't design a decent level themselves so they needed to take this route

It's funny.  You think you are making a joke, but that is actually kind of what they think.  Read/Listen/Watch any of the hands on stuff with LBP at E3 and a lot of the stuff shown was from the internal beta going on.  They seem to always be surprised by how amazing levels being made by others are and don't know exactly how they did it.  It is almost like with Spore users stumping the devs by making various creatures.

i cant wait until this finally comes out in oct dec early 2009 easter 2009 now our summer 2009 blockbuster fall 2009.

it's already had some sony delay tax so hopefully it is on it's way.

They are in the internal beta right now and all elements seem to be in.  Plus they are having basic advertising on TV right now.  I think it will be out this year.

[Eel O'Brian]

still buying it

should be plenty of free levels to dl

also, can't people just make levels and post them to their website or whatever so players could just download/install to ps3 that way (like ps3 game saves), circumventing the whole upload to psn thing altogether?

[JustinP]

not surprised to see undeserved LBP hate on this forum, either.

Oh dear, dyfb is hallucinating another anti-Sony conspiracy. Someone give him his sedatives.

Nobody's hating LBP. We're hating the idea of making a "create and share" concept and then introducing "but you have to pay for the best stuff."

actually, i was referring more to the absurd "MM can't make good levels themselves" and "nobody will buy LBP" statements, etc.  i've never called out some sort of conspiracy.  

and also, i think it's a bit silly to assume the best stuff will be charged for.  if someone makes the best levels in LBP, they're still not forced to charge anything for it.  they simply have the option to.  it'll be hard to sell levels that are comparable to free levels being released by others.  there's also little from stopping people from recreating pay levels and throwing them out there for free.  i have a feeling levels will have to be VERY substantial to have a chance of actually selling for a price, and it'll probably be a very low price.  

this is comparable to valve letting some mods (like gmod) charge.  i don't really think there's anything wrong with allowing people to be rewarded for their hard work.  otherwise, there's a good chance they wouldn't put in that level of work in the first place.  

[ananus]

couldn't you just recreate a level someone is charging for and offer it for free? or can you actually use custom sounds/images/etc or need authorization to upload them? (like the ut3 maps)

[cool breeze]

still buying it

should be plenty of free levels to dl

also, can't people just make levels and post them to their website or whatever so players could just download/install to ps3 that way (like ps3 game saves), circumventing the whole upload to psn thing altogether?

I don't even think you would need to go that far.  All you really need to do is only play the free ones.  If anyone is going to avoid this game  because a few levels could cost money, then you are an overly dramatic prick.

[Eel O'Brian]

depends on how they market it, but yeah, probably won't sell huge

i think it might have legs, and sell slowly but steadily over the months following release

word of mouth will play a huge part in its success/failure

[Crushed]

this is comparable to valve letting some mods (like gmod) charge.

Gmod versions 1-9 were all free. Valve, noticing the popularity of it so much, gave the source code to Garry so that he could make an upgraded version, on the conditions that: A) the new Garry's Mod would be sold as a Valve product, and B) that he remove all downloads of any free version from his website, and cease all support for them.

It's not comparable at all.

[pilonv1]

Thats because you are a greedy person. You should contribute freely to the community.

people like this are worse than pc pirates

[duckman2000]

couldn't you just recreate a level someone is charging for and offer it for free? or can you actually use custom sounds/images/etc or need authorization to upload them? (like the ut3 maps)

Now we are talking! Boo at people thinking it'd be cool to actually earn some money from work well done, hurray for plagiarism and ripping others off!

[JustinP]

Oh my. 

dfyb, you aren't really one of those people that thinks this is going to sell big numbers, are you? 

I absolutely adore the look and idea of this game, but I have trouble seeing how anyone thinks this game is anything other than niche.  Even on a successful platform, it would be a pretty small seller.

depends what you mean by big.  i think over the long term, a million copies is definitely within their reach.  depends how they market it and how the game and it's community features actually work out.  i'm not really making predictions, other than denouncing the claim that "nobody will buy it."  the game's getting major buzz from just about everywhere.  unless something happens, it looks like it'll review quite well and continue to get buzz after it's release.  

you claim it'll be niche, but i see a very accessible game.  the controls are simple, the art style has mass appeal, and there'll be thousands of levels to play that can potentially appeal to a huge variety of user preferences.  there'll be cute levels, there'll be dark levels, there'll be serious levels, and there'll be funny levels--there'll be something for everyone.  not everyone will be creating complex levels and that isn't something that is necessary for this game to succeed.  there'll be tons of users who just enjoy playing the levels and maybe sticking some stickers in a place or two.  

[FlameOfCallandor]

couldn't you just recreate a level someone is charging for and offer it for free? or can you actually use custom sounds/images/etc or need authorization to upload them? (like the ut3 maps)

Now we are talking! Boo at people thinking it'd be cool to actually earn some money from work well done, hurray for plagiarism and ripping others off!

Welcome to the internet.

[Crushed]

oh god the sbrigade and foc in one thread


wait

this is our chance




send in the firebombs

[JustinP]

this is comparable to valve letting some mods (like gmod) charge.

Gmod versions 1-9 were all free. Valve, noticing the popularity of it so much, gave the source code to Garry so that he could make an upgraded version, on the conditions that: A) the new Garry's Mod would be sold as a Valve product, and B) that he remove all downloads of any free version from his website, and cease all support for them.

It's not comparable at all.

and if team garry wanted, they could have turned down the offer and continued making updates to a free gmod.  

i didn't say it was the same situation.  i'm saying it's comparable.  not everyone can charge for LBP maps --  you have to be approved by MM (hey, that's comparable to what valve did when they pitched their offer to gmod).  

and the differences you do point out make this LBP news even less a bad thing.  users who sell levels don't have to stop making free levels.  and the tools used to make pay-for levels are the same tools everyone has access to.  a user could even get a reputation for recreating pay content for free.  if people are going to try and charge for their levels, they're going to have to make it worth buying over recreating -- or else nobody will buy the level, they'll be forced to release it for free if they want users playing their level (instead of a duplicate), and it won't even matter in the first place.  

you can't take an object from a level and use it in your own level without the level creator rewarding it to you, but there are no patents in LBP -- you can recreate anything from scratch if you have the skills.  

[cool breeze]

I don't think there will be a way to recreate any level 100% since this game isn't tile based.

My idea for how they could go about having pay levels be different is removing limits with them.  They already said that there will be a limit to how big your level can be since they don't want the download size to be too large for every level, and there is a situation with music.  If the ones you pay for don't have these limits, it is more uninteresting at least.

[pilonv1]

You mean advertised levels dcharlie? Custom LBP by Coke?

[cool breeze]

They already talked about themed levels that will be made.  They already have a Helghast Sackboy in the game and they have been caught working on a Kratos Sackboy.

[MCD]

They already talked about themed levels that will be made.  They already have a Helghast Sackboy in the game and they have been caught working on a Kratos Sackboy.

i'm thinking these levels might end up as "premium" levels....

ms fud.

[cool breeze]

i'm thinking these levels might end up as "premium" levels....

I wouldn't have any problem paying for those.  They can even include character parts when you buy them.  Buy Uncharted level and get the half tuck shirt.

[cool breeze]

Velocity Girl went nowhere.  Now that there are avatars, be prepared to get fucked up the ass with this shit.

[Tabasco]

yeah, that's surely going to be not allowed right?
people will be able to just copy pay for content and give it away for free? That completely undermines the ability to charge for levels.

there surely has to be some protection against that or else no one will bother putting that effort in to create free levels if someone can just come along and copy it.

I'm starting to think this clause is for the companies wanting to create levels with custom assets.

Precisely. The LBP mesh will be made available to other developers who might be interested in making their OWN LBP themed levels and meshes, and then selling them. Doubtful that this will apply to true user generated content [guys like Andrews] at all.

[duckman2000]

You know how they put out all these lame pre-order bonuses, like "pre-order now and receive an exclusive branded rifle!"
See, an LBP level that relates to the game in question would be a pretty neat such bonus, assuming the level(s) are well designed.

[BlueTsunami]

These are the sort of decisions that should be done after the game is out before you even know if its going to be a hit. Openly stating it now would probably quell whatever chance its got. Media Molecule is just being pre emptive with the rape.

And I would pay, maybe 99c for a Level? But fuck the developers of the ass if its any  more than that for a fricken level.

[Tieno]

I don't like the idea of paying for some of the and, as time goes on, the best user generated content. Locking that away is stupid. On the other hand it probably will push more people for more quality in their level design, although there's tons of good free content on youtube.... It'll also split the userbase with 4p co-op.

[laesperanzapaz]

LOL consoles

NICKEL AND DIMING FOR USELESS MICROTRANSACTION SHIT

PC, the true innovator, the true leader, the true 'do it right, do it correctly, do it gamer-oriented'-er

[y2kev]

The more I think about it, the more I realize this is like Steam or something. It's not really any different than Valve snapping up some modders and backing them (and then the mod becomes pay).

But it was gonna be free

[duckman2000]

But it was gonna be free

Plenty of stuff still will be free. This isn't supposed to be Ebay, not everyone can charge for everything they do. And people also don't have to charge for their stuff, it's just a way to actually give people a chance to make some coin and get some decent recognition for extraordinary efforts. Again, the critics do by and large sound like a bunch of communists, except it's of course really all about them being cheapskates with some really weird sense of entitlement.

as opposed to giving it away for free and getting free advertising?

hmmm.

Well, a pre-order doesn't technically cost you anything. That's not to say it couldn't be a free promotional thing, just saying that it'd probably be a cooler option than what they are currently throwing in as pre-order bonuses.

[Mupepe]

Some of you guys cry like little girls about everything.  I don't see anything wrong with this.  It's an option for the consumers and for the creators.  No one is forcing you to buy it and no one is forcing them to sell it.

[demi]

LOL consoles

NICKEL AND DIMING FOR USELESS MICROTRANSACTION SHIT

PC, the true innovator, the true leader, the true 'do it right, do it correctly, do it gamer-oriented'-er

You know, you're really starting to get boring. I predict your next post will be about how America sucks. Maybe you should go back to lurking.

[Van Cruncheon]

Some of you guys cry like little girls about everything.  I don't see anything wrong with this.  It's an option for the consumers and for the creators.  No one is forcing you to buy it and no one is forcing them to sell it.

this

[Eel O'Brian]

bubububu free

[Eel O'Brian]

back when i was heavily playing the first call of duty game, i would have totally coughed up a couple of bucks for some of the player-created maps, as some of them were loads better than the ones on the disc

there was this one set around a nazi mansion on a hilltop, and there were all kinds of secret areas, and a stream running around it with a small bridge you could hide out under, just a really cool and beautiful map this guy had obviously invested a lot of time in, and that would have been worth more to me than a couple of dollars alone

[Brehvolution]

This is a pretty tame discussion vs. the broken record that is the gaf version. This is exactly how I felt reading that thread:



Preemptive statements that this WILL ONLY HARM the LBP community is hilarious.

[Draft]

Who gives a shit?

The only dumb thing is that they are planning on hand picking who can sell levels. That's stupid. Just let anyone sell levels.

[cool breeze]

Well, there needs to be some quality control going on.  I think it is good that they at least need to make sure that the user is able to make good original levels before letting him choose to charge.  Plus, if they do give them less limits on what they can have, then that would also be more worth it.

[Draft]

Also be more worth it, eh?

Let a rating system be the quality control.

[cool breeze]

Maybe.  I'll see how this pans out.  I sure as hell won't be charging for my levels.

[JustinP]

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=200029

a bit of clarifying.  all user-made content will be free at launch

"Obviously, we're also excited about the future and David was talking about how user-generated content could potentially evolve in the long term. Any decisions that are taken to evolve LBP in the future, will include the community and focus purely on enhancing the user experience."

[Draft]

Maybe.  I'll see how this pans out.  I sure as hell won't be charging for my levels.

I'd charge for mine if people were willing to pay for it. Fuck a community son I'm trying to get paid. Alla dat.