Author Topic: 360 version of Rage will be the worst looking version barring MS policy change  (Read 20099 times)

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JustinP

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http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53976

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d's post-apocalyptic open-world shooter Rage (PC, PS3, 360, Mac) will look worse on Xbox 360 due to the compression needed to fit the game's assets on two DVDs, programmer John Carmack revealed at tonight's QuakeCon keynote.


According to Carmack, the royalty fees to include a third disc in the Xbox 360 version would be so high that it simply isn't a feasible solution, with the programmer hoping for Microsoft to make a concession. He stressed that the issue has nothing to do with the Xbox 360 hardware itself, and is merely a storage problem.

Mupepe

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sounds pretty gay.  i'll be getting the ps3 version either way.  one disc.  fuck yeah

demi

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I never liked Carmack anyway.
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AdmiralViscen

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http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53976

Quote
d's post-apocalyptic open-world shooter Rage (PC, PS3, 360, Mac) will look worse on Xbox 360 due to the compression needed to fit the game's assets on two DVDs, programmer John Carmack revealed at tonight's QuakeCon keynote.


According to Carmack, the royalty fees to include a third disc in the Xbox 360 version would be so high that it simply isn't a feasible solution, with the programmer hoping for Microsoft to make a concession. He stressed that the issue has nothing to do with the Xbox 360 hardware itself, and is merely a storage problem.

So you're not gonna get the 360 version?!

Hitler Stole My Potato

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Carmack doesn't know how to deal with the complexities of the 360's GPU.  Lazy developer total.

He's never made a good game anyway, so who cares what he thinks.
Tacos

cool breeze

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:bow Carmack  :bow2

Unlike Bethesda, you don't yield to lame console limitations to make the game as good as it can be.

duckman2000

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I don't get this though. Isn't the game supposed to be a seamless open world affair? If that's the case, how would that work with multiple DVDs (without install) anyway? I might be thinking of some other game though.

BlueTsunami

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Megatextures pwning DVDs left and right. PC, one platform future :bow
:9

cool breeze

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And is this the first game to be released on blu-ray for PC?

JustinP

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I bet Microsoft makes an exception. They did it with SF2THDWTF, they'll do it here too. Isn't EA publishing RAGE? I'm sure EA could do something aswell.

I'm still getting it on the Xbox 360. I bet looking "worse" is very minor overall, but I don't care about graphics(I wanna play for the story).

that's what everyone said about UT3 having mods on 360.

"epic is so close with microsoft.  microsoft would never let a PS3 version be better" etc etc

of course, it's a little easier to give id a pass on royalty fees

maxy

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Heh,he still says that 360 hardware is superior :D
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demi

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UT3, the shining beacon of success
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Crushed

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« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 02:35:30 PM by Crushed »
wtc

Draft

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Sucks for Xbots.

Smooth Groove

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I bet Microsoft makes an exception. They did it with SF2THDWTF, they'll do it here too. Isn't EA publishing RAGE? I'm sure EA could do something aswell.

I'm still getting it on the Xbox 360. I bet looking "worse" is very minor overall, but I don't care about graphics(I wanna play for the story).

that's what everyone said about UT3 having mods on 360.

"epic is so close with microsoft.  microsoft would never let a PS3 version be better" etc etc

of course, it's a little easier to give id a pass on royalty fees

Who cares?  UT3 MP is dead even on PC. 

And if you wanna play solo, 360 is the better version. 

BlueTsunami

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I'm wondering how multiple disks will effect how you can travel about in game. Its not like this is some japa RPG with HD CGI. I would think certain parts of the game will be locked out unless this game is completely linear.
:9

MCD

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lazy developers.

hyp

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like this is going to deter 360 owners from buying it

but why would you?  last good carmack game was quake 2
pyh

MCD

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I'm wondering how multiple disks will effect how you can travel about in game. Its not like this is some japa RPG with HD CGI. I would think certain parts of the game will be locked out unless this game is completely linear.
game will probably use a "chapters" system.

JustinP

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I bet Microsoft makes an exception. They did it with SF2THDWTF, they'll do it here too. Isn't EA publishing RAGE? I'm sure EA could do something aswell.

I'm still getting it on the Xbox 360. I bet looking "worse" is very minor overall, but I don't care about graphics(I wanna play for the story).

that's what everyone said about UT3 having mods on 360.

"epic is so close with microsoft.  microsoft would never let a PS3 version be better" etc etc

of course, it's a little easier to give id a pass on royalty fees

Who cares?  UT3 MP is dead even on PC. 

And if you wanna play solo, 360 is the better version. 
solo unreal tournament?  you must be a fucking idiot :lol

and it matters because we're in another situation where the PS3 version has an advantage because of policy from MS.  how good the game is, is not an issue of importance. 

This kind of stuff is going to happen. MS couldn't side with Sony on blu-ray, and they didn't want to risk putting a component in to their box that might come back and bite them in the ass later. They needed to profit this time, so they did everything to make sure they could.

And that's that.

Ps3 has more storage space to work with. I really don't see what the big deal is until it becomes a bigger deal. And it just might.
i would have guessed you were one of the many who made claims that DVD was not going to be an issue.  and i think it just did become a big deal. 

Eel O'Brian

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probably still going to look better than ps3 version even compressed all to hell

rsx budget gpu  :gloomy

sup

Smooth Groove

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I bet Microsoft makes an exception. They did it with SF2THDWTF, they'll do it here too. Isn't EA publishing RAGE? I'm sure EA could do something aswell.

I'm still getting it on the Xbox 360. I bet looking "worse" is very minor overall, but I don't care about graphics(I wanna play for the story).

that's what everyone said about UT3 having mods on 360.

"epic is so close with microsoft.  microsoft would never let a PS3 version be better" etc etc

of course, it's a little easier to give id a pass on royalty fees

Who cares?  UT3 MP is dead even on PC. 

And if you wanna play solo, 360 is the better version. 
solo unreal tournament?  you must be a fucking idiot :lol

and it matters because we're in another situation where the PS3 version has an advantage because of policy from MS.  how good the game is, is not an issue of importance. 

This kind of stuff is going to happen. MS couldn't side with Sony on blu-ray, and they didn't want to risk putting a component in to their box that might come back and bite them in the ass later. They needed to profit this time, so they did everything to make sure they could.

And that's that.

Ps3 has more storage space to work with. I really don't see what the big deal is until it becomes a bigger deal. And it just might.
i would have guessed you were one of the many who made claims that DVD was not going to be an issue.  and i think it just did become a big deal. 

Who's the dummy that brought up UT3 when no one even plays it?   ::) 

JustinP

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Who's the dummy that brought up UT3 when no one even plays it?   ::) 
MS is helping market UT3 360 and Epic is close to MS with, if you've forgotten, one of their largest selling games made with an exclusive publishing deal.  it doesn't really matter how successful UT3 is on any platform.  we're talking about MS policy here and the fact that many people like you made claims that MS would change their policy and allow mods on UT3 so that it is on par with PS3's version.  now we have people assuming MS will change their policy to make sure Rage 360 is on par with PS3's version.  do you really think that's a safe bet? 

JustinP

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probably still going to look better than ps3 version even compressed all to hell

rsx budget gpu  :gloomy


yes, that's exactly what carmack meant when he said the ps3 and pc versions would look better. 

360 budget policy  :gloomy
360 budget disc drive  :gloomy

Eel O'Brian

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justinp budget poster  :gloomy
sup

demi

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Is this dude really trolling - I thought you were above this, Justin
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Jansen

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it'll probably run at a lower resolution and be unable to upscale on ps3. so in the end if carmack doesn't get his way things will even out somehow.

abrader

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Im pretty hyped for this.


Hitler Stole My Potato

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Hakuna Matata
Tacos

Wolf Gang

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I bet Microsoft makes an exception. They did it with SF2THDWTF, they'll do it here too. Isn't EA publishing RAGE? I'm sure EA could do something aswell.

I'm still getting it on the Xbox 360. I bet looking "worse" is very minor overall, but I don't care about graphics(I wanna play for the story).


How many more exceptions can Microsoft make before rubbing other developers the wrong way for whom they don't make an exception for?

How many can they make before making a mockery of their limitations in the first place?

How about before acknowledging the compromises developers are having to make on their hardware?

If you can see where I'm going with this, then please enlighten me where you see these exceptions going in the future. Perhaps another four year lifecycle?

probably still going to look better than ps3 version even compressed all to hell

rsx budget gpu  :gloomy



Yeah, because it doesn't matter that the second biggest PS3 hater (for first biggest, see Gabe Newell) just said his company's next big game would actually look better on the PS3. You're not winning any common sense award anytime soon.

Megatextures pwning DVDs left and right. PC, one platform future :bow

Do you have a Blu-Ray drive for your PC yet?

Please write a check to Sony.

Thanks.

Finally, the Rock, has come back... to Sony.

Eel O'Brian

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you're not winning any common sense award ever

are you quoting wrestlers, really dude

that's like the faggotiest thing ever
sup

cool breeze

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Wolf Gang

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I'm pretty sure Wolf Gang is distinguished mentally-challenged, so go easy on him.

I'm pretty sure you're a loser having like 8,000 posts on here, you NeoGAF reject.

JustinP

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http://gamevideos.com/video/id/20047

Carmack interview.
he's an excellent engineer, but he makes it pretty obvious how out of touch he is with the game industry in large. 

MCD

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huh, notice how all multi disc games are MS funded (LO, BD and IU) and there is FFXIII which probably got a pass.

Carmack is a genius, he doesn't deserve this royalty bullshit.

MCD

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sounds like a public call for a reduced rate to me.
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169112
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Shawn "In a way were you hoping to influence your fans who might then influence MS by going online and some things like that."

Carmack, "Absolutely"
:lol

Tabasco

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Wow Carmack is awesome.  Airing lots of dirty secrets.  Language in 360 SDK encouraging 1 disk games.  Sony blocking late ports that don't have enhancements.  And for all the drama of the DVD, he pretty much rips the PS3.  Again.  Besides Bluray, 360 the better platform in every single way.  He even had a RSX insult just for the Bore.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 09:40:56 PM by Tabasco »

Jansen

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holy fuck he pans the hell out of the ps3 in that interview

cool breeze

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Carmack is dreamy.  The interview should have been 2 hours or something.

And things he said about the PS3 are things that have been well known for a while now, he just put it into more complicated and awesome terms.

Bocsius

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If he knocks Sony, I guess he's an idiot again.

AdmiralViscen

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If dfyb gets this mad over inferior versions of multiplatform games, he must have like 4 PS3 games.

Wolf Gang

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I'm rather perplexed about how people munch on Carmack's cock like he's a programming god yet he whines like a little girl about having to sweat a lot harder on the PS3... and then he admits that Blu-Ray makes it pay off, but still calls it unfortunate?

I mean, wat.

No wonder Carmack hired away the lead programmer from Naughty Dog. He needs help.

Where's your mythical programming god now, Xbots? Why can't he program a codec to make the DVD space a non-issue? Does he need to hire somebody else for that too?

Bocsius

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If he knocks Sony, I guess he's an idiot again.


Yep.

Wolf Gang

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Maybe the Cell is the only architecture that could let him program a codec strong enough to make DVD space (or the lack thereof) a non-issue?

Oh, the irony.

Cormacaroni

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Maybe the Cell is the only architecture that could let him program a codec strong enough to make DVD space (or the lack thereof) a non-issue?

Oh, the irony.

I see you've really taken a close look at the techical issues here. *golf clap*
vjj

duckman2000

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Jesus, why can we only get the winnet hanging sfags over here?
Pana, please post ASAP


I'm thinking this dude is a "joke character," albeit not a terribly funny one. But then again, are they ever?

As for Carmack vs PS3 fanboys, I don't get why people become so upset. It has seemed obvious for some time that the secret to spectacular results on PS3 stems squarely from developer dedication, a willingness and ability not only to dig deep but also to spend time and resources on developing around the shortcomings. I don't think any reasonable person can look at a game like Killzone 2 and come to the conclusion that the PS3 is fundamentally a piece of shit from a raw power viewpoint, but on the same note... unless you're developing specifically for the system, and thereby allowing yourself to navigate around these weaknesses and just home in on what that particular console does well, that power probably doesn't mean a whole lot. Sony built a system that is by all accounts "exotic," making it ridiculous to rip on a multi-platform developer for voicing an opinion based on his experience with the system.

Wolf Gang

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PS3 separates the wheat from the chaff, in all aspects.

It's not PS3's fault that Carmack can't step up without whining and without Naughty Dog's lead programmer.

Brehvolution

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Maybe the Cell is the only architecture that could let him program a codec strong enough to make DVD space (or the lack thereof) a non-issue?

Oh, the irony.
Compression on the fly is still sacrificing quality even though the 360 is good at it for now. Imagine how great 360 games would look if compression wasn't needed to be uncompressed and render.
You don't post much, but big D calling you an sfag is strange cause I thought you were a total xfag.

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« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 10:45:11 PM by Zero Hero »
©ZH

duckman2000

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PS3 separates the wheat from the chaff, in all aspects.

It's not PS3's fault that Carmack can't step up without whining and without Naughty Dog's lead programmer.

Yeah, and I'm sure PS3 developers would just hate having a more intuitive development environment too, am I right?  ::)

Cormacaroni

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PS3 separates the wheat from the chaff, in all aspects.

It's not PS3's fault that Carmack can't step up without whining and without Naughty Dog's lead programmer.

Multi-platform, running at 60fps...and makes everything else out there on consoles look like shit? If I were you, Sfag Jr., I'd STFU and take a bit of constructive criticism as part of the package 'cause he's giving you about as much as you're going to get out of multiplatform development this gen.
vjj

duckman2000

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makes everything else out there on consoles look like shit

Well, that's just plain not true.

Wolf Gang

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Quote
It's not PS3's fault

lol ... but it is, you fucking nonce!


Now, now. Keep this civil dcharlie, you don't want me to go gandda on you again. The PS3 didn't make Carmack whine. His pussy did.

Yeah, and I'm sure PS3 developers would just hate having a more intuitive development environment too, am I right?  ::)

PS3 developers, and I mean true game developers, have adapted -- 10 years ahead of everybody else.

Developers like Naughty Dog and Insomniac have developed their own proprietary engines.

Their development environment is intuitive to them because it is their development environment.

I hope you understand.

Multi-platform, running at 60fps...and makes everything else out there on consoles look like shit? If I were you, Sfag Jr., I'd STFU and take a bit of constructive criticism as part of the package 'cause he's giving you about as much as you're going to get out of multiplatform development this gen.

I did not mean to offend you. I'm sorry. Please come back when you're sober. Your post was completely incoherent.

AdmiralViscen

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PS3 separates the wheat from the chaff, in all aspects.


:lol

duckman2000

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Developers like Naughty Dog and Insomniac have developed their own proprietary engines.

Their development environment is intuitive to them because it is their development environment.

Force training, that's what that is. This reminds me of people who argued that Houdini was where it was at, simply because it was capable of great things and came in a less than user-friendly package. I think working with the PS2 has given these developers a leg up on other developers, and certainly in terms of creating elegant solutions to mask shortcomings. Looking at something like Killzone 2, I suppose there may be something to be said for these solutions actually bringing something uniquely appealing, not least on the visual front, but for developers themselves, I find it hard to believe that a more streamlined environment wouldn't ultimately be preferable.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 11:12:04 PM by duckman2000 »

Wolf Gang

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It would not make sense for you to say that developers who have developed exclusively for PS3 have not streamlined their processes and environments.

Multi-platform development benefits from the PS3 being lead platform because of better programming practices, which separate the wheat from the chaff.

You can call it forced training if you want. I just call it reading the hardware documentation and making shit shine for the Cell.

Brehvolution

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[
PS3 developers, and I mean true game developers, have adapted -- 10 years ahead of everybody else.

Developers like Naughty Dog and Insomniac have developed their own proprietary engines.

2 different things.

PS3 developers are 1st party and the key selling point. True game developers are spreading their IP across many different consoles therefore having to settle on the lowest common denominator which can be storage, current fill rate based on sdk, to just quickest to market.  Unfortunately for you and me, the PS3 has yet to prove this. :-\ :'(
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 11:25:02 PM by Zero Hero »
©ZH

Brehvolution

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It would not make sense for you to say that developers who have developed exclusively for PS3 have not streamlined their processes and environments.

Multi-platform development benefits from the PS3 being lead platform because of better programming practices, which separate the wheat from the chaff.

You can call it forced training if you want. I just call it reading the hardware documentation and making shit shine for the Cell.

Though I agree with the leading on the PS3, you are calling out the wrong person. :maf
©ZH

Hitler Stole My Potato

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PS3 separates the wheat from the chaff, in all aspects.

*Appeared in 10th in Time's top 50 most influential in technology (http://www.time.com/time/digital/digital50/10.html)

*Brian Hook, a former 3dfx engineer and developer at iD Software and Verant once mentioned this during an "Ask Hook" on Voodoo Extreme:
"...let me tell you, it's hard to get up the energy to think when you work with John Carmack. It's just too damn easy to walk over to him and have him solve a problem in 15 seconds that you struggle with for two days. (Yes people, he's that smart)."

From the Masters of Doom biography:

*The twenty-nine-year-old Carmack was a monkish and philanthropic programmer who built high-powered rockets in his spare time (and made Bill Gates's short list of geniuses);

---------------------------------------------------------

*It was February 8, 1998, and Carmack was about to put his brain to the test:

counting cards in blackjack. This had become something of a new fascination of his. “Having a reasonable grounding in statistics and probability and no belief in luck, fate, karma, or god(s), the only casino game that interests me is blackjack,” he wrote in a .plan file. “Playing blackjack properly is a test of personal discipline. It takes a small amount of skill to know the right plays and count the cards, but the hard part is making yourself consistantly [sic] behave like a robot, rather than succumbing to your ‘gut instincts.’ ” To refine his skills before the trip, Carmack applied his usual learning approach: consuming a few books on the subject and composing a computer program, in this case one that simulated the statistics of blackjack dealt cards. His research proved successful, netting him twenty thousand dollars, which he donated to the Free Software Foundation, an organization of like-minded believers in the Hacker Ethic. “Its [sic] not like I’m trying to make a living at [blackjack],” Carmack wrote online after his trip, “so the chance of getting kicked out doesn’t bother me too much.” It didn’t take long for him to find out just how he’d feel. On the next trip, Carmack was approached by three men in dark suits who said, “We’d appreciate if you’d play any other game than blackjack.”

The others at the table watched in disbelief. “Why are they doing this to you?” a woman asked.

“They think that I’m counting cards,” Carmack said.

“They think you canremember all those different cards?”

“Yeah,” Carmack replied, “something like that.”

“Well, what do you do?”

“I’m a computer programmer,” he said, as he was escorted out the door.

----------------------------------

*“You can’t keep up with Carmack,” said Romero’s lead programmer, “so why even try?” (when switching to the Quake engine during Daikatana's development)











Carmack.  Dumb and lazy.
Tacos

AdmiralViscen

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This is distinguished mentally-challenged.

Wolf Gang

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I am not calling out the wrong person.

Carmack felt his soul die a little when he admitted that Blu-Ray is an advantage.

That's the last thing Mr. Xbox Advisor would ever want to do.

And for what? Because he doesn't want to pay a royalty fee? Boo hoo. Don't make the game for 360 then, damn.

You all act like he's above politicking when that's all he does.