Author Topic: Looking for a good city/civ builder  (Read 2086 times)

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Great Rumbler

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Looking for a good city/civ builder
« on: August 06, 2008, 09:42:10 PM »
Basically I'm in a phase where I want to play a city/civ builder and I'm looking for a good one that I haven't played yet. So far I've played Locomotion, all the Simcity games including Societies, The Settlers: Rise of an Empire, Majesty, Disciples II, and Civilization 3 and 4.

I'm currently looking at:

-Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom
-Caesar IV
-Children of the Nile
-Europa Universalis III
-1701 A.D.
dog

Fragamemnon

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2008, 10:50:22 PM »
-Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom
-Caesar IV
-Children of the Nile
-Europa Universalis III
-1701 A.D.

I've played all of these games pretty much to death. Here's my take on them:

Emperor: ROMK - Pretty much a classic Impressions-style citybuilder (like Zeus, Pharoah, C3). Campaign settings are good and the feng shui system works well. Only downer is that the combat is cumbersome (like all impressions CBs), there's quite a bit of it, and monument building can be a very tedious process in some of the scenarios. Still highly recommended.

C4 - Very much in the Impressions style as well (since TM built it) and just as good. Online implementation is neat. If you want more of C3, it's good-and better than the reviews give it credit.

CotN - From Tilted Mill, but turns their original citybuilder formula totally on its head-and that's the reason why the game has such a love/hate relationship in experienced CB circles. The game very much features organic city growth and it's often the city's residents who dictate actions from the player as much as it is the terms of the scenario. TM has recently released a Enhanced Edition on Steam with some much-needed upgrades and it's certainly cheap enough to take the plunge in. I really like the game (I have spent about 60 hours with it since the re-release) and have posted some stuff on the forum about it-give it a search to find my impressions.

EU3 - The most hardcore game here, and the best in terms of its "sandboxiness". It's really a big historical geopolitical simulator that rewards players who have ideas as to where they want their nation to grow and B) have a good understanding as to how far they can push the rules of the game to get there without going too far. Much wiki reading over at the Paradoxian wiki will be needed to get up to speed with the game, and to be honest the game without at least the first expansion is really rough around the edges, even patched. However, if you want to play one of the most ambitious and historically loving games ever made, EU3 + the two expansions is, at least right now, the greatest thing ever.

As a bonus, once you understand EU3, you can easily move on and play really badass shit like Hearts of Iron 2, WW2 game of the forever, Victoria, and Crusader Kings, all of which are games that really have no peer in the entire gaming continuum.

1701 A.D. - Again, different than the rest because while it is a citybuilder at heart, it's much more about managing growth and supply chains while aggressively expanding to keep out the competing players. It's that competitive nature of the game that makes it different-each time you are not just going up against the rules of the scenario and the map, but also the competing players, which are generally well implemented. They add an element of tension and urgency that's usually not found in most citybuilder games. Also, the game looks great.

If I had to choose, I'd choose in this order:

EU3
Children of the Nile
1701 A.D.
Emperor: ROMK
C4

All of them are easily worth playing, though.
hex

Great Rumbler

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2008, 10:59:06 PM »
Which of those would you say is the easiest to get into and just play around without worrying too much about completely screwing everything up when you're already over an hour into a game?

That's been my main grip with games like Pharaoh and CiV4, that they don't really give me much space to breathe just a constant push from behind, to play aggressively in the latter and somehow turn a profit in the other. I've wasted a lot of time on games that ended with me quitting in frustration because I messed up somewhere, so I'd like a change of pace.
dog

Fragamemnon

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2008, 11:18:03 PM »
Which of those would you say is the easiest to get into and just play around without worrying too much about completely screwing everything up when you're already over an hour into a game?

That's been my main grip with games like Pharaoh and CiV4, that they don't really give me much space to breathe just a constant push from behind, to play aggressively in the latter and somehow turn a profit in the other. I've wasted a lot of time on games that ended with me quitting in frustration because I messed up somewhere, so I'd like a change of pace.

Children of the Nile's design is intentionally done such that large strategic errors by the player can be corrected over time without too much problem. Generally speaking, no matter how bad you fuck things up, you'll always be able to make it right again without restarting anything. The different scenarios also do not, in general, tell you to do one thing and then force you to do something so different that you would need to reallocate your city completely.

Out of those five games, I'd definitely go with COTN if that's a big concern of yours.
hex

Great Rumbler

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2008, 12:34:46 AM »
Okay, I'll check that one out when I have some time. I'm still leaning towards getting 1701 A.D., I'm a sucker for colonization/trade-empire stuff, though.
dog

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2008, 01:27:46 AM »
I guess this isn't much of a help, but the only one of that specific list that I've played is 1701 AD and it's fantastic. I love the game to death, so I definitely recommend trying it at one point. It's a lot more tense and exciting than most citybuilder games, I think, and while I'm not sure that's exactly what you're looking for, I have to heavily suggest it regardless.

GilloD

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2008, 08:04:39 AM »
1701 and Ceaser are literally the same game. That's not a joking "literally", that's an actual "literally". They're just tile swaps.
wha

Great Rumbler

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2008, 04:11:30 PM »
1701 and Ceaser are literally the same game. That's not a joking "literally", that's an actual "literally". They're just tile swaps.

Nothing wrong with that, the Caesar games are great.

Also, I went with 1701 A.D. since that was the only one I could find in stores.
dog

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2008, 04:32:35 PM »
I got 1701 A.D. last weekend and just picked up Europa Universalis III today.

1701 A.D. can be really fun, but when you get your city built up, especially to the higher levels, it just becomes a never-ending barrage of complaints and it drives me crazy. 10 hours in and I'm ready to put it aside for a while and try out some other games.

Europa Universalis III was only $5.50 at Half Price Bookstore so I couldn't really pass it up. It's just the plain version though, no expansions. Frag, where do I need to go to find the expansions?

By the way, have you tried City Life? I found it really cheap and I'd like to try it out, but I haven't really heard anyone talk about it. Also, how does it compare to Simcity Societies?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 04:38:12 PM by Great Rumbler »
dog

Fragamemnon

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2008, 01:33:13 AM »
I got 1701 A.D. last weekend and just picked up Europa Universalis III today.

1701 A.D. can be really fun, but when you get your city built up, especially to the higher levels, it just becomes a never-ending barrage of complaints and it drives me crazy. 10 hours in and I'm ready to put it aside for a while and try out some other games.

You really have to plan, plan, plan and be two steps ahead to keep your populace happy in 1701. Transportation network management is essential to keeping your population behaving and not whining like demi when a xbla game is 1200 points.

Quote
Europa Universalis III was only $5.50 at Half Price Bookstore so I couldn't really pass it up. It's just the plain version though, no expansions. Frag, where do I need to go to find the expansions?

The two expansions can be snagged only via digital distribution via gamersgate.com. Their download and payment system has works fine for me.

Quote
By the way, have you tried City Life? I found it really cheap and I'd like to try it out, but I haven't really heard anyone talk about it. Also, how does it compare to Simcity Societies?

I haven't tried City Life, so I can't speak for that game. I do like SimCity Socities, though, Titled Mill cleaned that game up nicely and it was very entertaining.
hex

Great Rumbler

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2008, 01:33:41 AM »
Europa Universalis is WOOOOOAAAAAAAHHHH. I've probably put at least 4 hours into already and I basically had to force myself to quit since it's past midnight. Seriously, I'm loving this game, it's just got so much depth and so many options that I can play around with. And it doesn't force me to play in any one particular way. If I want to sit back and explore or build colonies, I can do that almost without being bothered by anyone. Or if I want to fight some natives, that's cool too. Or I can build up my armies and pick a fight with the HRE.
dog

Fragamemnon

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2008, 01:39:17 AM »
Europa Universalis is WOOOOOAAAAAAAHHHH. I've probably put at least 4 hours into already and I basically had to force myself to quit since it's past midnight. Seriously, I'm loving this game, it's just got so much depth and so many options that I can play around with. And it doesn't force me to play in any one particular way. If I want to sit back and explore or build colonies, I can do that almost without being bothered by anyone. Or if I want to fight some natives, that's cool too. Or I can build up my armies and pick a fight with the HRE.

EU3 is an incredible game if you are willing to put the time into it. Most full games of EU3 generally take me anywhere from 30-40 hours to complete, but I just adore the way that I can weave history however I see fit, generally at my own pace. Entire kings can come and go without anything but internal consolidation and infrastructure being built, then the next later might conquer half a country.

Check out the EU3 wiki for lots and lots of helpful info:

http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/Main_Page

VERY helpful to get you better acquainted with the game.
hex

pilonv1

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2008, 01:45:35 AM »
where can I D/L EU3 from? I cant find it locally
itm

Great Rumbler

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2008, 01:50:04 AM »
I got into a huge war with France [as Castille] because my stupid allies think that because I have an alliance with them they can start wars with their neighbors. Eventually I just hung them out to dry, serves them right.

Also, I picked a fight with the Creeks and found it was way more trouble than it was worth because the Cherokees started harassing my border colonies. I went back to a save game from a few months prior and bypassed that altogether, although I do still have a save game at that point in case I want to go back and try again.

My war against the Aztec empire went very well and I even convinced at least three other European powers to declare war along with me. But in the end all I managed to get was the Mexico region, which isn't much reward for my troubles. Oh well, it was fun at least.
dog

Fragamemnon

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2008, 02:43:47 AM »
where can I D/L EU3 from? I cant find it locally

http://www.gamersgate.com/index.php?page=product&what=view&sku=DD-PDXEU3&cat=&via=box_topthisweek

It's pretty modest download-but don't let that fool you, there's a simply colossal amount of game there. You can get the two expansions (which are highly recommended once you play through a game or two of the base game) for $20 a pop.
hex

Fragamemnon

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2008, 02:45:49 AM »
I got into a huge war with France [as Castille] because my stupid allies think that because I have an alliance with them they can start wars with their neighbors. Eventually I just hung them out to dry, serves them right.

Also, I picked a fight with the Creeks and found it was way more trouble than it was worth because the Cherokees started harassing my border colonies. I went back to a save game from a few months prior and bypassed that altogether, although I do still have a save game at that point in case I want to go back and try again.

My war against the Aztec empire went very well and I even convinced at least three other European powers to declare war along with me. But in the end all I managed to get was the Mexico region, which isn't much reward for my troubles. Oh well, it was fun at least.

Don't be shy about making separate peaces or making peace during wars if you drag your alliance in with you in order to ensure that the war ends with peace on your terms.
hex

pilonv1

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2008, 03:18:43 AM »
argh, i cant decide between this or CIV4 complete. i feel the need to take over the world but i also want to steer a tiny nation to success
itm

Fragamemnon

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2008, 03:47:16 AM »
Civ4 is arguably the best PC strategy game ever made. EU3 is very good and totally unique sort of game, but the level of polish and design brilliance between the two games can't really be compared. Get Civ4 Complete.
hex

Brehvolution

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2008, 02:22:47 PM »
I agree with Frag. I've played a couple of those other games mentioned and I always go back to CIV4.
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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2008, 03:29:20 PM »
Civilization is great and all that, especially IV with the two expansion packs, but EU3 is a completely different experience. Civ is all about conquest in one form or another, whereas with EU3 it's all about setting your own goals and finding ways to achieve them.
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pilonv1

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2008, 08:55:54 AM »
so I have IV with the expansions.

do i run CIV4.exe or the expansion exes?
itm

Brehvolution

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2008, 10:28:07 AM »
so I have IV with the expansions.

do i run CIV4.exe or the expansion exes?

Each expansion has it's own.
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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2008, 12:53:36 PM »
Oh man, good times today in EU3. I've been playing a game as Spain for a while now and today I decided that I'd had enough of France lording over me their paltry victory some hundred years prior, so I built up a huge army on my border with them and then started a huge war. Also, I paid out some cash to convince Austria to join me in an alliance, so they launched an invasion against France's eastern border.

France's allies bailed almost immediately and, of course, I let them go. Several months, and one province, later France itself began calling for a white peace [lol France lol], but I wasn't going to have any of that. My massive armies [at least 3 with more than 20,000 troops] continued to march through their territories, killing and launching sieges at every step. Ultimately, I took down about six or seven of their territories. Austria bailed on me about half way, which let France concentrate on their western border. I probably could have pressed a little farther, but I'd had my fun.

Three years into the war, I finally convinced them to give up Navarra, the vassal that they'd taken from me one hundred years prior, and that was about it. It was, however, a major moral victory for me and my country and we have reveled in a glorious golden age ever since.

Also, in thanks, I made Austria one of my vassals.  :tophat
« Last Edit: August 14, 2008, 01:04:19 PM by Great Rumbler »
dog

pilonv1

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2008, 08:30:57 PM »
so I have IV with the expansions.

do i run CIV4.exe or the expansion exes?

Each expansion has it's own.

So lets say I want to start a huge map with max civs and both expansions in play, what exe do i use?
itm

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Re: Looking for a good city/civ builder
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2008, 09:07:44 PM »
I've been using the Beyond the Sword exe.
dog